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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 01:56   #1
ReligFree
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Free PA round - Late?

[00:46] <ReligFree> im confused PA team
[00:46] <ReligFree> why is round start so late?
[00:46] <ReligFree> and why all the crap before the start?
[00:46] <ReligFree> whats wrong with making the free roudn 2 weeks longer
[00:46] <ReligFree> and getting rid of this alliance competition etc

From what i stated earlier on IRC.

Oh and the crap before the start thing, that was me slightly annoyed, but i was referring to the speed games and then this alliance competition that realistically how many alliances are going to take seriously?

What are the opinions of the other members of the PA community? I personally dont understand it....
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 02:03   #2
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

tbh i feel the same as you, it would be nice if the round was at the end of jan rather than mid/end feb, get maybe another week or two in it...
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 02:06   #3
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

This is a disaster for PA... the longer between the real rounds the more players lose intrest and move on.. I thought that someone had learned..
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 02:53   #4
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

i agree i think there should less time b/t the rounds myself also
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 11:48   #5
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

the alliance competition was not orginally planned, but was a community idea that sounded like fun. Before the free round was the best time to place it so as to balence the gaps between rounds either side of the free round.

The gap between round 15 and round 16 will be about the normal period of time we have between rounds.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 11:49   #6
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Having an alliancecomp with 50 members just before the free round is plain stupid tbh, when you are gonna have a higher limit in the real round.. Some alliances will need to turn down players and they might not get them back for the real round.

The other option is not to play the alliance comp ofc..
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 11:59   #7
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Having an alliancecomp with 50 members just before the free round is plain stupid tbh, when you are gonna have a higher limit in the real round.. Some alliances will need to turn down players and they might not get them back for the real round.

The other option is not to play the alliance comp ofc..
50 was choosen to increase the number of alliances who would be able to take part. Its also unlikely that a whole alliance would be available on every day of the competition - so its like in say a game liek football - u have a bigger squad but they don;t all play every match.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 13:18   #8
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

i agree waiitng so long for the roundd is daft , i want pa to get a round going quickier than that im bored and hate speed games!!
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 13:20   #9
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

a month between he end of havoc and the start of signups is about normal you know, and we are doing some coding for round 16 as well (bug fixes and tweaks only), so this really isn't an unusual gap.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 13:36   #10
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Dear Kal.

The problem isn't really what's normal or not. But that 1 month is too long

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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 14:39   #11
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Indeed - 6 to 7 weeks before the free round ticks start is way to long.

If you want to add bug fixes and tweaks - why not just starting a fun 1 hour tick round with the existing code like ... tomorrow? If hearing this makes you cry out "thats impossible" then please take a minute to evaluate why you think so. Technically it should be possible to restart the game in an hour or 2 maybe and whats the use of telling us how you can run multiple games on the same machine now (again) and how you have a spare server even and how CPU/bandwidth isnt a problem with PA nowadays anymore - but if we look at the planned events it seems like one game at a time on one machine is the most ever possible. Quite silly tbh

Why not run a 1 hour tick round while the speed rounds are running? The die hard PA fans will play both and everybody else can choose their favorite poison.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 15:33   #12
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

yeah, I was thinking the same thing, a month and a half is too long to wait for the start of r16.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 15:43   #13
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Just play the speedgames etc then? They are always fun
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 19:57   #14
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
This is a disaster for PA... the longer between the real rounds the more players lose intrest and move on.. I thought that someone had learned..
I'm not sure it is a disaster, its alot better for the game that PAN is ready and theres hardly any break between the free round and the first PAN round.

As for the 50 member limit in the alliance comp, surely Kal if the ideas to allow the most alliances possible to take part and have it work like a football team chhosing which of their members are going to play each round why not make it even lower. I'm not sure how workable this is but maybe even go as far as having alliance preregister their members to take part, they can register say upto 50 with 25 taking part in each round. Those alliances with 80 members can either register one team of 50 or two teams of 40. That way the top 20 alliances could all easily have one team taking part, some of those outside may be able to scrape enough together and a good number could enter an A and a B team

And in case any wonders why Im talking about pre registering, the basis behind this was simply to stop aliances having multiple teams and just switching members between them to get both teams through
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 20:03   #15
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

I think everyone wants the round asap, not in a months time.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 20:16   #16
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Yeah, proper round asap says I.
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 22:36   #17
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyne
I think everyone wants the round asap, not in a months time.
Yes people in this community currently might do BUT then lets be honest we dont really matter. We are the people they have already attracted to the game and most of us have been for numorous rounds are less likely to just up and leave. However part of the point of the free round is to get new blood into the game and the shorter the gap between this free round and PAN the better chance of getting some of them to pay for the game.

Another thing is PAN is a new game and isnt something you want rushed. Just look at PAX which was rushed and took a couple of rounds to get it to a decent level. Infact the first PAX round drove a number of players away and we dont want that again, So if they want a few extra weeks lets give them it, it can only be good for the game and atleast they are supplying us with some distractions while we wait
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 22:40   #18
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

i agree... it's much better to just do the 5 week round earlier and forget the silly alliance speedrounds which are never gonna be really popular:/
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 23:35   #19
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

I agree with Wakey - everyone who doesn't should think back to what a mess PaX was. I quit over it, so I remember
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 23:41   #20
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Same here actually, i quit when PAX came too. Its really nice now though
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Unread 2 Jan 2006, 23:47   #21
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I agree with Wakey - everyone who doesn't should think back to what a mess PaX was. I quit over it, so I remember
and i wholeheartedly disagree with him in this case

His reply completely missed the point that "we" didnt argue to move the round from mid-february to begin earlier but "we" suggested to have another round of some kind with 1 hour (or 30 minutes) ticks in between. And i wont even begin to discuss the "the remaining players arent important" statement...
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 00:33   #22
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
His reply completely missed the point that "we" didnt argue to move the round from mid-february to begin earlier but "we" suggested to have another round of some kind with 1 hour (or 30 minutes) ticks in between. And i wont even begin to discuss the "the remaining players arent important" statement...
So your views have now become the views of the whole community then Ramihyn, because apart from you I dont see ANYONE else stating there should be another free round going on at the same time as the speedgames.

As for why isnt there another game running while the speedgames are being done, most likly as it will reduce the Speedgames income (im assuming these are paid events). Jolt are being kind enough to provide a week round for free and asking for more, especially something which potentially reduces income from other events is asking a bit much imho

And if you have a problem with my "the remaining players arent important" statement then your clearly taking it out of context as all im saying is that as far as retention rates go its the players whom will join the free round that are more suseptable to long breaks driving them away than the existing players whom are somehwat immune to the effects of a break at the end of round. In fact theres probally more players more likly to continue playing after a longish break to recharhe their batteries than there is people whom will quit over it
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 01:03   #23
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
i agree... it's much better to just do the 5 week round earlier and forget the silly alliance speedrounds which are never gonna be really popular:/
yeah, speedrounds suck
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 01:28   #24
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
So your views have now become the views of the whole community then Ramihyn, because apart from you I dont see ANYONE else stating there should be another free round going on at the same time as the speedgames.
I wrote the "we" in quotations because AFAIR somebody seemed to agree with me on that. Reading back this thread, it was KingAlans reply which (to me) indicated that he agreed to my post (maybe he didnt and just agreed to the general topic). Feel free to make a better suggestion how to express "me and at least one more person in this thread and someone on irc" instead of "we".

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
As for why isnt there another game running while the speedgames are being done, most likly as it will reduce the Speedgames income (im assuming these are paid events). Jolt are being kind enough to provide a week round for free and asking for more, especially something which potentially reduces income from other events is asking a bit much imho
Interestingly there isnt any mentioning in the last announcement if the events are free or p2p. Most people seem(ed) to assume they are free as that was said in the past (http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=188258). Weird that this major point can be misunderstood even

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And if you have a problem with my "the remaining players arent important" statement then your clearly taking it out of context as all im saying is that as far as retention rates go its the players whom will join the free round that are more suseptable to long breaks driving them away than the existing players whom are somehwat immune to the effects of a break at the end of round. In fact theres probally more players more likly to continue playing after a longish break to recharhe their batteries than there is people whom will quit over it
Maybe - i cant judge that. To me personally it does the opposite but i am in no way representative of the PA community.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 01:42   #25
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Wakey is right in this case. Why not just extend the free round to 7 weeks or maybe even longer by putting the tick start and signup earlier than planned.

If you still insist upon the other goings on (ctf was a good novelty, but meh...I can't be bothered with it again. Although i'd definately favour it over the 'alliance cup' idea) surely its possible to run the two alongside each other?

Both sides win then.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 01:50   #26
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Proxi
Wakey is right in this case. Why not just extend the free round to 7 weeks or maybe even longer by putting the tick start and signup earlier than planned.
Some people will likely argue against extending a round because it is very probable that the end of the round will see extended stagnation due to one group dominating the universe. That means a boring playtime for the others and that could bore the new(er) players away who are on the receiving end of incomings for 2 or 3 weeks.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 01:54   #27
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

If the round is only 7 weeks long it's still shorter than a normal round, so I don't see how stagnation is more likely than any normal round of PA. Less so as its still a shorter round.
Also this can be prevented by fluid politics that have been prevalent in the last few rounds.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 01:58   #28
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

The freeround could be 7 weeks - it'd meet the same end in timescales.

These speedgames are only accessible to a few - who has 24 hours to play PA solidly ? from 11-11 or whenever it is
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 02:21   #29
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

The priority is a successful PAN. If it's not going to be ready until the current end of r16 (mid-April) then we need something between now and PAN apart from r16 to take up time. The proposals for speed rounds and the alliance competition are sound, and they'll do just fine.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 02:27   #30
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

A longer free round would give the same amount of time to get PAN ready if the start date is extended backwards. I don't understand why this would be a problem

The community will tire of speedrounds quite quickly, so another advantage of an extended (by starting earlier) round 16 would be that the alliance cup could be played after, as a reserve incase the PAN deadline isn't met.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 09:09   #31
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

who is really gonna play this alliance comp? and speed rounds are generally crap because it's not a realistic measure of anything.

a 5 week round is rediculous UNLESS you intend on cutting research/construction times in half, 7-8 weeks is certainly more reasonable.

if in fact you DO actually listen to the community, do so now please. Keep in mind that if it's your intention to attract new players, a 5 week round isn't going to do anything but turn them off, as they need time to learn the game and take advantage of the full tech tree. 5 weeks is like "here, play this for an hour then we want you to pay for it" why even bother. Make it a proper round, gives you time to set PAN up, give the community time to enjoy a proper round.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 10:38   #32
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

I never play other rounds than the normal ones. I don't like the other rounds...

I say, start a new round when the scripting is ready!
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 10:40   #33
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

And another thing. Will the speedrounds have the same crap value\xp formula as usual?

Because we would just end up with a terran with 100 ships and nothing in value roiding bigger inactives to get cheap points while his oppoenents cant do anything.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 12:16   #34
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Drop the speedrounds please. They only attract players like Kila, which could be good in speedrounds but tend to suck in real rounds.

If the speedrounds are meant to be an introdution of new players to Planetarion, those new players will come out cheated, since the real rounds are very different from the speedrounds.

So please drop the speedrounds and let's have the real round on a earlier date. Think that would benefit the current community aswell as new players!
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 13:27   #35
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clogg
Drop the speedrounds please. They only attract players like Kila, which could be good in speedrounds but tend to suck in real rounds.
Sorry Clogg, since I also want to drop the speedrounds they are prolly not gonna listen..
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 13:33   #36
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Perhaps we should have a poll?

Options:
1.Keep the start dates as planned
2.Change the length of r16 by starting ticks 2 weeks earlier than planned
3.Other (please specify)
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 16:58   #37
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

I think Proxi has hit the nail on the head. A poll would be the best option allowing for the current community to vote on when they want to play, and for PA team to take notice of it would also be a novelty.

I think if anything this is going to turn some people off PA with such a huge gap.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 17:29   #38
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
And another thing. Will the speedrounds have the same crap value\xp formula as usual?

Because we would just end up with a terran with 100 ships and nothing in value roiding bigger inactives to get cheap points while his oppoenents cant do anything.
Very, VERY true. This point and angryducks sum up speedrounds fairly well - they arent a good measure of anything.
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 17:38   #39
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

Just make the free round longer and sooner. I'm already looking for other games whilst waiting for the free round...
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Unread 3 Jan 2006, 19:24   #40
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

I agree, people will get bored and start playing other games instead of PA if you delay the round for so long :/
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 18:54   #41
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

how on earth do you wanna get more people to play pa while you wait this long till it starts....

you're doing a free round but why ruin it with silly things like alliance competition which are not gonna be fun.

so far i haven't heard about anyone really wanting to play it. why not just start the round 2 or 3 weeks earlier? and making it longer. you'll have same time to finish stuff on pa:n and you'll have much more happier players. also new people have more time to get to know the game and get to know alliances and players so they have a nice foundation to start playing with in pa:n.

17th of feb is stupid tbh. wasn't it supposed to be mid january at first?.... why do you always insist on delaying these things which keep the game alive?.... speedrounds and alliance competitions can be done during rounds right? you've got 2 servers don't you? don't ruin it for people who actually like PA.

also i wonder who actually thought of this alliance competition stuff? someone in power in jolt or something?
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 18:56   #42
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

surely seeing as stats and everything else can be about the same as last round we really do NOT need beta's and stuff?
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:16   #43
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

A reply from PA team here would be nice :/

//edit
Ah appoco owned me by posting his thread at the same time as I posted this \o/
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Unread 4 Jan 2006, 19:21   #44
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Re: Free PA round - Late?

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