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18 Jan 2005, 18:14
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#1
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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[Politics] talking rice
America must learn foreign languages and try to understand different cultures:
“We can and we must do more. Our interaction must be a conversation, not a monologue,”
Condoleezza Rice, incoming Sectretary of State.
surely this was always obvious and apparent. an immature nation often causes more problems than necessary when given an empire, for example king leopolod's belgian empire's effect on the congo.
is america however even capable of growing up?
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18 Jan 2005, 18:19
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#2
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Lucky
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.
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18 Jan 2005, 18:19
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#3
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Raaaaaaaah!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,296
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.
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I can, I imagine most American's already learn to speak English in kindergarten
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Hicks
Mercury & Solace
Always [Fury]
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18 Jan 2005, 18:20
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#4
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
I imagine most American's learn to speak English in kindergarten.
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really?
i was sure it was part of their undergraduate degree.
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18 Jan 2005, 18:21
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#5
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Georgie b0y didnt attend kindergarten
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18 Jan 2005, 18:41
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#6
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
america will only ever grow up if they manage to get rid of the curious mix of attitudes that they have, and become one country, rather than a nation of states with wildly differing views.
i actually think that america would do better if it was split into 2 smaller countries
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lazy
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18 Jan 2005, 18:45
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
what for? so that they can threaten and/ or insult other countries in their native language? yes, i'm sure that will make things better.
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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18 Jan 2005, 19:01
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
If something foreign is even remotely important, it will be translated into English at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.
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The reason Chinese people learn English is because knowledge of the English language is vitally important for most people who wish to take part in business or academic life since, like it or not, it is the global language. There is no other langage that is even remotely as important, hence there is no real need for Americans to learn a second language in kindergarten. If they were to do so, it would be a completely arbitrary choice - does it really matter whether the 2nd language an American child learns is French, Dutch, or German? All are likely to be equally useless to his/her future life.
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18 Jan 2005, 19:03
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#9
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Or burnt and erased from history.
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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18 Jan 2005, 19:05
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#10
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
english may be the global language, but that kind of attitude is exactally why america (and england, although not to as great an extent i feel) needs to grow up
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lazy
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18 Jan 2005, 19:07
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
english may be the global language, but that kind of attitude is exactally why america (and england, although not to as great an extent i feel) needs to grow up
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Yeah, lets all be mature pretend other things are more important than they are in order to make people feel better.
It's certainly possible that knowledge of Chinese (for instance) will become important in the future depending upon how the global markets develop, but there certainly isnt any pressing reason at the moment for someone to learn a non-English language unless they wished to live in a non-English speaking country, or had some purely personal reason for doing so (such as being interested in languages or ^__________^ anime or whatever).
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18 Jan 2005, 19:08
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#12
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
what?
what kind of a reply was that?
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lazy
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18 Jan 2005, 19:09
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
what?
what kind of a reply was that?
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Non-english languages are utterly irrelevant in today's world. Acknowledging this isnt 'childish'.
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18 Jan 2005, 19:11
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#14
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
well, as there is still a majority of the world who don't speak english, i would say that they are highly relevant.
and to say otherwise is part of the arrogance which it would be better if we lost
EDIT: PS, nicely edited
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lazy
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18 Jan 2005, 19:16
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#15
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
*cough*
the learning new languages thing might be seen as a 'metaphore'...
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18 Jan 2005, 19:19
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#16
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
well, i know, hence my original reply, but nod tried to go off on the english for big business tangent.
EDIT: but, whils't still being a good metaphore for the whole subject, the issue of language is perhaps also central to the understanding of the inherent arrogance of the english speaking nations
(apart from the canadians as they are all soft and cuddly)
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lazy
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18 Jan 2005, 19:20
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#17
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
The idea that America is somehow collectively "immature" is incredibly stupid.
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18 Jan 2005, 19:21
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#18
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
america isn't, parts of it are, i know that immature possibly isnt the greatest way of descrinbing it, but i cant think of another way off the top of my head and i'm tired
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lazy
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18 Jan 2005, 19:24
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#19
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
The point is that you can't make such massive generalisations about a country without looking foolish. Not that one specific generalisation is wrong.
(At least I think that's the point heh)
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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18 Jan 2005, 19:28
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#20
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
i know, but i feel it misses the thrust of my initial post
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lazy
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18 Jan 2005, 19:32
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#21
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The idea that America is somehow collectively "immature" is incredibly stupid.
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its foreign policy has been immature since its creation.
that better?
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18 Jan 2005, 19:44
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#22
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Although english is an 'important' language* its complete lunacy to suggest other languages are irrelevant especially in the business world (and it is childish). The bigger 'globalised' companies can and do use english in the boardroom as a common language but almost everything else is done in the language of the nation you are in. Academic work is also not exclusively carried out in english - where the hell did that come from?
English is 'important' but not nearly as important as nod seems to be making out.
*language of aviation and arguably global business
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Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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18 Jan 2005, 19:46
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#23
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
Academic work is also not exclusively carried out in english - where the hell did that come from?
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gordon
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18 Jan 2005, 19:46
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#24
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
its foreign policy has been immature since its creation.
that better?
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Slightly.
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18 Jan 2005, 20:07
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#25
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:cool:
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Here, there and everywhere
Posts: 791
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Non-english languages are utterly irrelevant in today's world. Acknowledging this isnt 'childish'.
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Did you know that 72% of UK trade is with non-English speaking countries, and 94% of the world's population do not speak English (as their first language)?
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Danger gleams like sunshine to a brave man's eyes.
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18 Jan 2005, 21:22
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#26
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nondescript human
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,079
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
That doesn't really matter; foreign languages still aren't useful enough for learning them to be a worthwhile investment of time for the average native English-speaker in my opinion.
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18 Jan 2005, 21:45
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#27
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Jolt's best friend
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,101
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
given that the 'average' native english speaker is american i'd probably agree. for actual english people i'd disagree, as whether we like it or not we look like we'll soon be living by laws written in french/german.
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<Karmulian> subtle as a kick in the nuts as always
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18 Jan 2005, 21:51
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#28
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The point is that you can't make such massive generalisations about a country without looking foolish.
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That's not what Zhukov says.
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18 Jan 2005, 21:53
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#29
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Lucky
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Non-english languages are utterly irrelevant in today's world. Acknowledging this isnt 'childish'.
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probably the most stupid post you ever made here.
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18 Jan 2005, 22:01
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#30
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
That's not what Zhukov says.
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Do not worry. Stalin knows how to deal with zhukov!
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Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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18 Jan 2005, 22:11
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#31
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lolly roffle
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,514
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
in china people learn english at kindergarten. i don't see things like that ever happening in the USA.
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19 out of the 20 Chinese people on my course cant speak it properly enough for me to hold a decent conversation with them. They must be able to write it ok and understand spoken English seeing as my masters is taught in English, but when it comes to conversing they are shit .
Sweeping generalisation based on the ~20 Chinese people i know that have been educated in China to degree level.
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eXcessum
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18 Jan 2005, 22:12
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#32
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I dunno...
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: manchester
Posts: 1,502
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
If America was in China's position, Americans would learn Chinese at kindergarten.
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He shall drink naught but brine, for I'll not show him / Where the quick freshes are.
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18 Jan 2005, 22:15
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#33
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Freedom Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Doing evil deeds in the name of freedom
Posts: 680
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Do not worry. Stalin knows how to deal with zhukov!
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Shall I dust off the Gonad electrocution kit?
__________________
The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.
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18 Jan 2005, 22:17
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#34
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
People will be pretty ****ed in fifty years time, when China completely domineers the global economy, and people in the west have to not only learn a new language, but a completely different character script.
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18 Jan 2005, 22:26
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#35
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share the <3
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
No they won't nothing of significance will change you won't have to learn chinese because the chinese businesses that come here will work in english, there seems to be this OMG CHINESE 50 YRS TIME fear going on, the japanese economy is the second largest in the world i don't see masses of people learning japanese (unless they plan on going there). If your company does business in china you will have to learn chinese, but thats the same with people doing business in europe, you can't get away with only english. Chill duder.
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Sophie is hotter than you
though ive gone off her now; the way Susanna Reid squirms around on sml is, however, awesome
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18 Jan 2005, 22:28
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#36
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Lucky
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
19 out of the 20 Chinese people on my course cant speak it properly enough for me to hold a decent conversation with them. They must be able to write it ok and understand spoken English seeing as my masters is taught in English, but when it comes to conversing they are shit .
Sweeping generalisation based on the ~20 Chinese people i know that have been educated in China to degree level.
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true, but i think things are a bit different for the current generation of young chinese people.
you can't compare it to the situation 20 years ago.
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18 Jan 2005, 22:57
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#37
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
There are Chinese people in my maths class that have been in this country for greater than a year, live with English families, have a course taught to them in English, allegedly received English lessons in China and yet can't string a sentence together in English.
But if it is so great and everybody else learns English and shit what is the point in learning a new language? What, so a Chinese person speaks to me in English and I speak to him in Chinese. Hay folks, let's swap languages.
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19 Jan 2005, 00:47
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#38
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Made of Twigs
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,459
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Will the fact that the Chinese alphabet has 5000 characters (I believe - I could well be wrong already), and these won't fit easily on a keyboard hinder the development of the Chinese language?
Now I realise that they've obviously coped so far with the internet and computers, but I'm talking in development terms. Or does it mean the language of Chinese that will spread (yes I know there are a lot fo variations) will be a simplified one?
I'm asking this because I generally don't know, was just wondering it, and I also appreciate the above may be full of inaccuracies.
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19 Jan 2005, 01:25
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,290
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
i don't think we will all have to learn chinese. english works just fine, so there is no need for any change. maybe people in other asian countries will start using it for buiness, and even that only if it easier for them to pick it up. i don't know any asian language so i have no idea how closely related all those languages are.
btw, i always thought there isn't a 'chinese' language, but that they speak a few different ones, like mandarine or cantonese.
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im not tolerant, i just dont care.
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19 Jan 2005, 02:07
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#40
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
stop Talking About Chinese Just Because Gordon Mentioned It.
This Is A Thread About America's Foreign Policy, Not Which Languages You Can Speak.
Address The Issue Or: Thready Go Bye Bye
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19 Jan 2005, 03:35
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#41
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1up on you
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 4,007
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
i think we can mock the americans for the lack of culture but being british i feel we lack culture too. More than ever I believe we are not trying to learn foreign languages. I would love to have been taught french and german in primary school along with english and be fluent in it by the time I reached High School. I am fluent in it but i had to live in the countries for this to happen.
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pig
[ 1u p]
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19 Jan 2005, 03:42
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#42
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
i think we can mock the americans for the lack of culture but being british i feel we lack culture too. More than ever I believe we are not trying to learn foreign languages. I would love to have been taught french and german in primary school along with english and be fluent in it by the time I reached High School. I am fluent in it but i had to live in the countries for this to happen.
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its a metaphore.
americans will not actually learn any more languages than they already learn.
what she promised, and you might be right not to believe her, is that the US will try to understand others.
this understanding is key because quite frankly the US has lacked it for so long. they are the global empire, they always needed to learn that there has always been a global empire and the key question is not whether you are it or not, but whether you can keep it.
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19 Jan 2005, 03:49
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#43
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1up on you
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 4,007
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
its a metaphore.
americans will not actually learn any more languages than they already learn.
what she promised, and you might be right not to believe her, is that the US will try to understand others.
this understanding is key because quite frankly the US has lacked it for so long. they are the global empire, they always needed to learn that there has always been a global empire and the key question is not whether you are it or not, but whether you can keep it.
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They should make every american have a passport and like at uni where you have a year abroad option paid for by the EU they should have a year abroad option in a german or british office.
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pig
[ 1u p]
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19 Jan 2005, 03:58
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#44
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
They should make every american have a passport and like at uni where you have a year abroad option paid for by the EU they should have a year abroad option in a german or british office.
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i'm not paying.
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19 Jan 2005, 04:00
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#45
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1up on you
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 4,007
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
i'm not paying.
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it would be comedy though, take my lecture tomoz morning or today even in 6 hours, I will be sitting next to two hot American girls who look like they have stepped out of a tommy hillfigger advert. I will then preceed to be more british than I am, and will then suggest they come back to my house for some "group" work. Now you couldnt do this with english girls, yet yanks they are so bloody gullable and easy.
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pig
[ 1u p]
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19 Jan 2005, 04:05
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#46
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I am.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,580
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
it would be comedy though, take my lecture tomoz morning or today even in 6 hours, I will be sitting next to two hot American girls who look like they have stepped out of a tommy hillfigger advert. I will then preceed to be more british than I am, and will then suggest they come back to my house for some "group" work. Now you couldnt do this with english girls, yet yanks they are so bloody gullable and easy.
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and i pull best when i flop my hair and stutter. (can anyone say hugh g-g-g-rant)
however this is hardly the point.
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19 Jan 2005, 04:16
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#47
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1up on you
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 4,007
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
and i pull best when i flop my hair and stutter. (can anyone say hugh g-g-g-rant)
however this is hardly the point.
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true. on that note im off to bed, have to practice my james bond voice for the yanks.
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pig
[ 1u p]
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19 Jan 2005, 08:13
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#48
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
we call her Cunnilingus Rice - thats her real name... Condoleezza was just a name Bush gave her when she picked up national security advisor.. he thought that the name Cunnilingus might spark another Bill Clinton fellatio incident
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"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
Veneratio | Insomnia | F-Crew | Subh
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19 Jan 2005, 08:27
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#49
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the Sacred Pervert
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,492
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
i actually think that america would do better if it was split into 2 smaller countries
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hmm.. i think that's already been done (canada - US) - but then again, technically, most mexicans are native americans that got raped by spanish priests during the spanish inquisition, so, i guess its safe to say that we are split into 3 actually..
then again, i dont really understand the argument in all this because even with the fact that the french-speaking community outnumbers the english-speaking people by at least 20% - it has been decided that the english language is the most user-friendly of them all
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"....some might say, we will find a brighter day...."
-Oasis
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19 Jan 2005, 09:25
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#50
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Lucky
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: -
Posts: 3,830
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Re: [Politics] talking rice
Quote:
Originally Posted by demiGOD
it has been decided that the english language is the most user-friendly of them all
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because 99% of all people who english as their native language refuse to learn any other language?
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