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18 Jul 2012, 19:06
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#101
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaejii
Just means scanners and such will be forced to play outside of tags again and the whole "support planet rule" will come back with a vengeance.
The cushion of planets not counting was there for a good reason - I don't agree with that being removed.
But I suppose with the same 3 vocal people keep whining about alliance limits, something is bound to change no matter how the rest of the community feels about it.
After all... look what happened when a couple people whined about the pre-launch change a couple rounds ago...
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This change is not something that just 3 people have wanted, this change is something that has been advocated for ages by several people. I think the community is more or less 50/50 on this.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
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18 Jul 2012, 19:46
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#102
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Knightly Protector
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Avalon
Posts: 590
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Re: Ally limits
hmm... I wonder where all those players are going to go now? Could make for an interesting round. Time to dust off the cobwebs under my arms and play active again. Hopefully we dont lose too many players and that the alliances that are above the alliance limit will come together to start up other alliances and of course that we dont have massive block wars but who am i kidding. In either case I am looking forward to seeing the same amount of players but more alliances fighting for the top spot.
__________________
TGV Ex-HC
-No I am not suffering from insanity. I am enjoying every minute of it.
Est Sularus oth Mithas
My Honour is My Life, My Life is My Honour
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18 Jul 2012, 20:00
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#103
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Ally limits
It won't change jack shit. *shrug*
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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18 Jul 2012, 20:29
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#104
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 46
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Re: Ally limits
This stupid change sure won't change anything, make 40/45 count to score, let us atleast have a real change.
And before anyone tells me to shut up, i will say that i have read all the pros and cons on this, and still think we need to change it.
Now we have same situation for several rounds: Ult winning being the best in every regard, CT fighting for top spot, and another ally (whoever gets most members pre round). Other alliances are already BELOW limit of 60, nothing will change there, there will be no broken communities or whatever...
Reducing the limit of people that count toward score to 40 will make several smaller alliances competitive, some new will emerge for sure, some will return.
The fact remains that Ult might again win, as the core will stay together, but atleast we might have something more then 'Lets all gangbang ult till we think they had enough, then get gangbanged by all the rest, and Ult wins'. This trend is, I think, direct consequence of tag size.
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18 Jul 2012, 21:01
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#105
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 734
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Re: Ally limits
as long as i remember, ive pro`ed this guz..
but they just do not want to think about changing things around in a way, when it actually matters and influences gameplay..
and u know why? cos theres always ppl that start to whine over new things, as its just something that human does.. therefore we need someone to take charge of the game that is not afraid to do unpopular decisions and actually has a solid idea where the game should be heading.. until we get such person, nothing changes, thats a fact
__________________
VISION FTW
THIS IS ULTORES
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18 Jul 2012, 21:05
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#106
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So what?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 606
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Re: Ally limits
This will change almost nothing. A headline seeking bone thrown to the people to who do want smaller tags but actually making them find 60 competitive planets rather than 50, and bizarrely removing the scanner spots.
__________________
Legion
[RaH] [Mercenaries]
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18 Jul 2012, 21:57
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#107
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Another triumph of hope over experience (and rational argument).
CT will now have to lose 18 of its members - I wonder what they'll do. Meanwhile, the remaining 60 will have to continue doing all the work needed to run an alliance. It probably won't make too much difference to us though, we had no one DCing at key times this round and we'll have even fewer doing it next round.
I hope you idiots are pleased.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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18 Jul 2012, 22:05
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#108
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 734
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Re: Ally limits
well.. reforms in ure alliance seem to be quite needed...
__________________
VISION FTW
THIS IS ULTORES
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18 Jul 2012, 22:09
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#109
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Agreed - but cutting the number of members wouldn't have been my preferred method of reform.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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18 Jul 2012, 22:19
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#110
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 46
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Re: Ally limits
Does game need to suffer cause of 18 CT members? Can they not play in separate tag? Are they bound to CT in some way?
Tag size makes every round crap, as there is not enough competition...
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18 Jul 2012, 22:20
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#111
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Have you been paying attention at all this round? This round and last have been pretty tight at the end (this round even more so). You have absolutely no evidence to support the view that smaller tags will create more competition - indeed the reverse is likely to be true. Ult will be able to dominate tags with 60 members even more completely than it has dominated tags of 80.
As to your other point - do 18 CT members need to suffer because of a few misguided people who think that "change is good" (without any basis for that belief)?
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
Last edited by ArcChas; 18 Jul 2012 at 22:26.
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18 Jul 2012, 22:33
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 46
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Re: Ally limits
yes
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18 Jul 2012, 22:44
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#113
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Have you been paying attention at all this round? This round and last have been pretty tight at the end (this round even more so). You have absolutely no evidence to support the view that smaller tags will create more competition - indeed the reverse is likely to be true. Ult will be able to dominate tags with 60 members even more completely than it has dominated tags of 80.
As to your other point - do 18 CT members need to suffer because of a few misguided people who think that "change is good" (without any basis for that belief)?
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Oh my quit your moaning......learn to embrace change!! 60/60 wont be fun, agree that Ultores will win easier than before, which is why we need to try get that changed to 60 members but 40/45 count....will make things more interesting and will test the theory that it will make the alliance rankings more competitive. If it doesnt work then oh well, its 1-2 months wasted, if it does work.....you have many years to come of fun PA playing!! haha
Asked about 20 peeps what they think and all agree to change but to change to less than 60 counting....problem is no one really cares about this forum....i only signed up today and played for ages, so using this forum to state what people want and dont want isnt accurate....just ask around what people want and hopefully you'll be surprised.
Fact is, the change is happening, just not in the way people wanted....so rather than trying to stop it, try get it change right at least.
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18 Jul 2012, 23:10
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#114
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Have you been paying attention at all this round? This round and last have been pretty tight at the end (this round even more so). You have absolutely no evidence to support the view that smaller tags will create more competition - indeed the reverse is likely to be true. Ult will be able to dominate tags with 60 members even more completely than it has dominated tags of 80.
As to your other point - do 18 CT members need to suffer because of a few misguided people who think that "change is good" (without any basis for that belief)?
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ArcChas, all alliances does not start out with 80 planets, the decision to change to 60 planets, is well within the timeperiod needed to prepare for next round. All alliances now have 3 weeks to organise and prepare, and I know of several alliances that has been set up on a lot shorter time and have won the round.
I think that if you are put up to a challenge, you need to rethink how you do things. If you are thinking that 60 Limit will be a hindrance, ofc it will be a hindrance, think of it as a challenge instead.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
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18 Jul 2012, 23:16
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#115
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
This change is not something that just 3 people have wanted, this change is something that has been advocated for ages by several people. I think the community is more or less 50/50 on this.
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This is a change advocated by idiots.
This is the worst change that PA came up sincw the "special asteroids".
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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19 Jul 2012, 00:39
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#116
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: Ally limits
60 members we can do, its crap that over 50 people are going to be kicked from their homes because of this.
what we do not agree with is the removal of the counted score. this is punishing new players, late starts and scanners. make it 50/60 and maybe it will work.
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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19 Jul 2012, 01:12
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#117
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEER
Oh my quit your moaning......learn to embrace change!! 60/60 wont be fun, agree that Ultores will win easier than before, which is why we need to try get that changed to 60 members but 40/45 count....will make things more interesting and will test the theory that it will make the alliance rankings more competitive. If it doesnt work then oh well, its 1-2 months wasted, if it does work.....you have many years to come of fun PA playing!! haha
Asked about 20 peeps what they think and all agree to change but to change to less than 60 counting....problem is no one really cares about this forum....i only signed up today and played for ages, so using this forum to state what people want and dont want isnt accurate....just ask around what people want and hopefully you'll be surprised.
Fact is, the change is happening, just not in the way people wanted....so rather than trying to stop it, try get it change right at least.
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a) I'm not moaning.
b) 60/45 would be even worse.
c) I'm not trying to stop it (the change is already made - the idiots won).
d) If you can't see the dangers of changing for the sake of change then congratulate yourself and go and join the ranks of the idiots.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 01:20
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#118
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Kargool/gm - We'll make it "work" no matter what stupid limits are set. We always adapt to the set up of the game.
Unfortunately this particular combination of changes has too many flaws - all of which have been detailed above. I just hope that the people kicked out of alliances don't just quit. It's hard to get people to come back once they've gone. I also hope that the (almost non-existent) new players will find a home somewhere and be encouraged to stay for longer than a few days.
I can't say that I care much about (most of) the late-starters.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 01:23
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#119
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: Ally limits
there is no doubt that most will, they only half play in our uncounted member list, they will just not bother now
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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19 Jul 2012, 01:49
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#120
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Wizard
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Great White North eh!
Posts: 102
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Re: Ally limits
40/40 makes more sense PA is barely alive on life support allowing the same big alliances to win over and over really is going to finish the game. There are good tools in the game and the merlin bot can be sorted out easy enough I think. Tools are mostly a one off sort of things so thats not a good argument at all. But you will notice its the same members from the same alliances wanting bigger allies. In the end PA crew will ignore the rest of us and cater to them.
After all when have you noticed them looking out for the smaller players since Spinner sold out? Thats right never....
__________________
I got roids......but I'm not going to share them with you!!
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19 Jul 2012, 02:26
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#121
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
40/40 (or any other "small" number) is going to make no positive difference. You'll just be "allowing the same" SMALLER "alliances to win over and over".
It's really quite simple, the smaller you make the tags the more difference quality is going to make. So the smaller the tag the more dominant the better tags will be. The only way to beat quality is with superior numbers - which is why we see so much blocking these days.
How much fun is it going to be for all but 60 (or 40) of us who know that we're just here to make up the numbers and watch Ult win again?
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 02:28
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#122
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Wizard
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Great White North eh!
Posts: 102
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Re: Ally limits
Do you even play this game?
__________________
I got roids......but I'm not going to share them with you!!
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19 Jul 2012, 02:31
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#123
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
I'll work on the basis that you either can't read or that you're just trolling. Either way you have nothing of value to contribute.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 02:40
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#124
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Wizard
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Great White North eh!
Posts: 102
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Re: Ally limits
Yeah a number of people think you are a troll. Now you've confirmed it
and a CT troll I'll wager
Which makes my point exactly :P
__________________
I got roids......but I'm not going to share them with you!!
Last edited by Merlin; 19 Jul 2012 at 02:54.
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19 Jul 2012, 02:55
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#125
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Ally limits
I would love to see a round of 20/20, 2 x 10 private galaxies.
Randoms can join random galaxies of upto 15, and ally one other random galaxy.
(Can not go back on the galaxy they ally up with)
Go back to 3 ticks attacking and 6 ticks defending pr fleet.
And let the fun begin.
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19 Jul 2012, 06:05
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#126
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: Ally limits
to say that 60/60 means that ultores will win...is stupid.
if it was 80/80 ct would be in the lead at this point in time of the round.
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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19 Jul 2012, 07:10
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#127
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin
Yeah a number of people think you are a troll. Now you've confirmed it
and a CT troll I'll wager
Which makes my point exactly :P
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This is what we call an abusive ad hominem. It is a logical fallacy. Please do better in the future.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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19 Jul 2012, 08:55
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#128
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 734
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
40/40 (or any other "small" number) is going to make no positive difference. You'll just be "allowing the same" SMALLER "alliances to win over and over".
It's really quite simple, the smaller you make the tags the more difference quality is going to make. So the smaller the tag the more dominant the better tags will be. The only way to beat quality is with superior numbers - which is why we see so much blocking these days.
How much fun is it going to be for all but 60 (or 40) of us who know that we're just here to make up the numbers and watch Ult win again?
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this is something i TOTALLY disagree with.. quality should not be overcome by superior numbers.. it should be overcome by either better quality or smart play, not the superior numbers!!! fs, read it and u understand it as well, that this sounds sooooooooo pathetic :/ (not saying ure pathetic, just the idea is mate..)
now I wont go in to details again why i personally think small 40 man tags would be awesome in planetarion, however.. think about this: why shouldnt a 40 man tag with high quality players win a round if they play it seriously well? if ure alliance does not match the quality needed to get to top, why should u actually be there then? whats the point there, just to make u feel good? that aint a valid point imo
now whole other thing with this matter tho, is that planetarion designers should also step in with such a change and make it more worthy for alliances to play for rank 2-5 for instance.. the more competition u have, the more the 2nd and 3rd place also have a meaning.. some ppl will now come here and say that if u aint #1, u aint nobody, and at this stage its getting to be true, since there is no competition.. landing on 3rd place today is as good as being the last, since the #4-20 tags are small as fck neways and do not have anything to say in the competition..
and now im again reaching my all time argument for smaller tags-> at least try to make more competition!
to all the fckers that are gonna come and start iwth the bs that theres no fact that it would improve anything, etc.. well, dont start with that shiz.. we aint got facts as nothing has been tryed yet :P
__________________
VISION FTW
THIS IS ULTORES
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19 Jul 2012, 10:47
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#129
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin
Yeah a number of people think you are a troll. Now you've confirmed it
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Here's how I think that conversation went:
<Wizard> Hey, everyone! You know that Amnion guy, the one who uses the forum nick ArcChas?
Hmm. Wait, no... you've not actually picked up on that detail yet. I'll start again.
<Wizard> Hey, everyone! You know that ArcChas guy from the forums? Who is he? Anyone heard of him? Don't you all agree with me in my assertion that he is nothing but a troll that doesn't play anymore?
<random IRC user> Dude, shut up.
<Wizard> Thank you for offering me the affirmation of my own opinions that I desperately craved from my fellow peers (given that I don't have the courage of my own convictions to make a point without feeling the necessity to give it the weight of a group of undisclosed yet oddly like-minded individuals)
*runs to forum*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin
I'm incapable of actually reading what you've put in your post, but I did notice the word 'troll'. I'll assume that you were simply confirming my opinion in that you are, in fact, just a troll who doesn't play anymore. Which makes my point exactly.
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Okay, first, you have no point. Amnion was contributing to a discussion with on-topic posts relating to the subject at hand (smaller tag sizes). You then tried to invalidate his argument based not on merit, but by challenging his credentials. Even when he dismissed your efforts of trolling as... well, trolling... you persisted.
This conversation is one that's been had time and time again, and a lot of the posts found in this thread are similar to ones seen in other, likened threads of the past. There are very few possible 'new perspectives' on the merits of small tags vs large tags.
That's not, however, your cue to start flaming those who have opinions on the matter that you disagree with. I guess the reason for your digression is simply your inability to handle a balanced conversation exploring both sides of an argument. Which, to be honest, is your loss.
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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19 Jul 2012, 10:52
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#130
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
I would love to see a round of 20/20, 2 x 10 private galaxies.
Randoms can join random galaxies of upto 15, and ally one other random galaxy.
(Can not go back on the galaxy they ally up with)
Go back to 3 ticks attacking and 6 ticks defending pr fleet.
And let the fun begin.
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This ^^
This sounds like great banter.
Unfortunately, as has been proven in the past, people are incapable of sticking to those kind of 'limits'. Because PA is so poorly designed, the majority of play is conducted outwith the game's design. Thus, limiting what people can do in-game doesn't actually limit how people play.
Which is why reducing tag sizes is ultimately irrelevant.
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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19 Jul 2012, 11:37
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#131
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon
this is something i TOTALLY disagree with.. quality should not be overcome by superior numbers.. it should be overcome by either better quality or smart play, not the superior numbers!!! fs, read it and u understand it as well, that this sounds sooooooooo pathetic :/ (not saying ure pathetic, just the idea is mate..)
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I'm not saying that I want quality to be overcome by superior numbers - just that it's the only way. If it is overcome by superior quality or tactics that just means that higher quality STILL beats lower quality ("Ult wins again"). If a new alliance forms with better quality players than Ult then superior numbers will be needed to overcome them. Sorry if this seems to be circular logic but it's self-evident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon
now I wont go in to details again why i personally think small 40 man tags would be awesome in planetarion, however.. think about this: why shouldnt a 40 man tag with high quality players win a round if they play it seriously well? if ure alliance does not match the quality needed to get to top, why should u actually be there then? whats the point there, just to make u feel good? that aint a valid point imo
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The point is that "the rest of us" (not just me) are tired of seeing the same alliance win every round - 4 on the trot with a distinct likelihood of adding this one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon
now whole other thing with this matter tho, is that planetarion designers should also step in with such a change and make it more worthy for alliances to play for rank 2-5 for instance.. the more competition u have, the more the 2nd and 3rd place also have a meaning.. some ppl will now come here and say that if u aint #1, u aint nobody, and at this stage its getting to be true, since there is no competition.. landing on 3rd place today is as good as being the last, since the #4-20 tags are small as fck neways and do not have anything to say in the competition.
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This community, rightly or wrongly, has always dismissed any rank other than #1 as being a failure but I agree with you that 2nd is (can be) better than 3rd (or 5th). Indeed I always cared about VGN's performance in every round when I was HC there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon
and now im again reaching my all time argument for smaller tags-> at least try to make more competition!
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You seem to be arguing against your own poin here (see your 2nd paragraph) and, as I've repeated argued, tag size has no effect on competition. There will still be one dominant alliance, two or three "in with a chance if they block" and "the rest".
Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon
to all the fckers that are gonna come and start iwth the bs that theres no fact that it would improve anything, etc.. well, dont start with that shiz.. we aint got facts as nothing has been tryed yet :P
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We have plenty of facts (right Mzyx?) but even if we hadn't that wouldn't be a good reason to break up existing groups of players to make the find new homes (or quit).
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 11:43
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#132
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper
to say that 60/60 means that ultores will win...is stupid.
if it was 80/80 ct would be in the lead at this point in time of the round.
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Stupid? I'd go so far as to say that Ult will win with any conceivable tag size - until they decide it isn't worth the trouble or until "the block" sticks to its task for a whole round. I suspect that if it was 80/80 then Ult would have 80 members.
BTW - I hope no one thinks that I have anything other than admiration for Ult. Their achievements are awesome. It's just that people seem to think that smaller tags will somehow (magically?) make Ult less dominant.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 12:32
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#133
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Ally limits
the game is dead so tag limit staying the same being reduced or being unlimited won't change that , personally don't care what tag sizes are but I do think at this point given the numbers playing that the tag limit could be lowered to 60 without any real changes to the political landscape , those crying loudest for tag limits to stay high are probably afraid if its lowered they will no longer have their safety in numbers scenario , so for 1 round lower the limit and if it doesn't work change it back for the following round
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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19 Jul 2012, 13:49
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#134
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
Stupid? I'd go so far as to say that Ult will win with any conceivable tag size - until they decide it isn't worth the trouble or until "the block" sticks to its task for a whole round. I suspect that if it was 80/80 then Ult would have 80 members.
BTW - I hope no one thinks that I have anything other than admiration for Ult. Their achievements are awesome. It's just that people seem to think that smaller tags will somehow (magically?) make Ult less dominant.
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where is ult going to find 10 extra members who are worthy of being in ultores?
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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19 Jul 2012, 15:01
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#135
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Hehe. Good point.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 15:04
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#136
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
the game is dead so tag limit staying the same being reduced or being unlimited won't change that , personally don't care what tag sizes are but I do think at this point given the numbers playing that the tag limit could be lowered to 60 without any real changes to the political landscape , those crying loudest for tag limits to stay high are probably afraid if its lowered they will no longer have their safety in numbers scenario , so for 1 round lower the limit and if it doesn't work change it back for the following round
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As I said earlier, of the 18 who can't stay with CT how many will just quit? And those who quit are less likely to sign up again after the 1 round "experiment".
Anyway, this horse is dead - iIt's been dead for several threads now. I propose that we stop flogging it and just let it rest in peace.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 15:08
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#137
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
As I said earlier, of the 18 who can't stay with CT how many will just quit? And those who quit are less likely to sign up again after the 1 round "experiment".
Anyway, this horse is dead - iIt's been dead for several threads now. I propose that we stop flogging it and just let it rest in peace.
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just out of curiosity what actual proof other than your own opinion do you have that those 18 will quit or that any player who does not get into their prefered tag will quit ?
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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19 Jul 2012, 15:14
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#138
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Wizard
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Great White North eh!
Posts: 102
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Re: Ally limits
t3k you are indeed a troll and you write great fiction.......do you even play or is this forum your only connection to PA? Get stuffed loser
__________________
I got roids......but I'm not going to share them with you!!
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19 Jul 2012, 15:21
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#139
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin
t3k you are indeed a troll and you write great fiction.......do you even play or is this forum your only connection to PA? Get stuffed loser
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Why do you question why everyone plays? Is that at all relevant to an opinion regarding the potential and/or theoretical implications of the subject at hand?
Your lack of imagination and loose grasp on reality is disappointing.
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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19 Jul 2012, 15:35
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#140
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Wizard
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Great White North eh!
Posts: 102
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Re: Ally limits
In all likelyhood you don't actually play the game and therefore your opinion is at best worthless. Yes it matters. Or perhaps its just worthless anyway. I quit posting in 2006 because the forum is mostly trolls.
__________________
I got roids......but I'm not going to share them with you!!
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19 Jul 2012, 15:52
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#141
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin
In all likelyhood you don't actually play the game and therefore your opinion is at best worthless. Yes it matters. Or perhaps its just worthless anyway. I quit posting in 2006 because the forum is mostly trolls.
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seriously ? do you also base the validity of a post on a player's ingame ranking .
there are plenty of ex-players who have just as much right to post here because its the same shit different round
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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19 Jul 2012, 16:00
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#142
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
seriously ? do you also base the validity of a post on a player's ingame ranking .
there are plenty of ex-players who have just as much right to post here because its the same shit different round
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Shit a brick people!! This change is coming into play, stop wasting time arguing over who has more say than others. Quite frankly I dont care what these ex-players say if they arent going to come back and actually play.....
Moving on....need to sort the change to less counted planets than 60....this just isnt the way people, who are i favor of the change, want it to be. So how can we get it changed? Who actually changed it in the first place?
Thanks
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19 Jul 2012, 16:27
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#143
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Knightly Protector
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Avalon
Posts: 590
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Re: Ally limits
People People People...
The change has already been made, nothing you can do about it and this topic has been talked about to death then revived and then killed again. I think we can all agree that nobody is going to be changing anyone's mind regarding the alliance limit. Plus with all the theories, predictions and so on floating on the forums there will be quite a few people that will be wrong and only a few minor people that will be right just because there are so many predictions floating about.
Dont you guys get tired of talking about the same thing over and over and over again? How about letting the new round come and seeing what it has in store and if you think its going to be super crappy or something just dont play actively and make a free planet, or take a round off and work on your tan. =)
__________________
TGV Ex-HC
-No I am not suffering from insanity. I am enjoying every minute of it.
Est Sularus oth Mithas
My Honour is My Life, My Life is My Honour
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19 Jul 2012, 16:33
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#144
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin
In all likelyhood you don't actually play the game and therefore your opinion is at best worthless. Yes it matters. Or perhaps its just worthless anyway. I quit posting in 2006 because the forum is mostly trolls.
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Can I just invalidate your entire argument by confirming that I am actually still playing? Coming out of posting retirement after 6 years really wasn't a good move for you.
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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19 Jul 2012, 16:57
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#145
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
just out of curiosity what actual proof other than your own opinion do you have that those 18 will quit or that any player who does not get into their prefered tag will quit ?
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I have no proof of that (obviously) it hasn't happened yet. That's why I phrased my comment in the form of a question. However, it is certainly one of the potential consequences of forcing them out of what has been their home for many rounds.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 17:01
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#146
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
seriously ? do you also base the validity of a post on a player's ingame ranking .
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And even if he did then my playing record and current ranking would mean that he'd have to take my opinions very seriously indeed. (Far more seriously than I take myself - I hasten to add).
But I agree with you, any argument should be judged on its merits - only part of which is based on the history of the person making it.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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19 Jul 2012, 17:02
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#147
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEER
Shit a brick people!! This change is coming into play, stop wasting time arguing over who has more say than others. Quite frankly I dont care what these ex-players say if they arent going to come back and actually play...
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You may want to start paying attention to the arguments made, rather than the person behind them, before people realise they are being dismissed by someone named after an alcoholic beverage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcChas
I have no proof of that (obviously) it hasn't happened yet.
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Sure it has. This isn't the first time tag limits are lowered. As you said before, we have plenty of facts.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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19 Jul 2012, 17:12
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#148
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6
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Re: Ally limits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
You may want to start paying attention to the arguments made, rather than the person behind them, before people realise they are being dismissed by someone named after an alcoholic beverage.
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I've hardly been focusing on the people behind the comments.....people have been posting a lot about the people making comment, Ive made one comment and tried to swiftly move on....
Take a step back and have a beer....feel better now? good
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20 Jul 2012, 02:05
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#149
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Who cares?
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 248
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Re: Ally limits
Since rejoining PA last round I have felt that the tagsize is too large for the current playerbase. Im happy to see it getting reduced, and would favor an.even.further reduction to something like 20-25. I havent read all the arguments in favor of, or against reducing tagsize, but I ll add one that I thonk is important, sorry if someone mentioned it before.
Many times during a round of pa I get upset about how things go, politics, overall quality of my alliance, certain players etc. I then consider making an alliance, however, I like to be involved in the game, and I know that making an alliance at this point will simply result in another rank 4+ half-filled practically irrelevant tag. So it never happens.
With reduced tagsizes people can actually make new allies with their friends, and those alliances have a potential to become influential in the final unniverse ranking. This attracts me much more than the current situation where there is basically only the choice of joining ct, ult or full allie #3, if you want to be part of the top allie race.
There is already a single dominant allie at the moment, reduced tagsizes will not make that worse. It will actually force ult to split. Also pa politics will be much more fun when there are more alliances to work with imo.
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20 Jul 2012, 02:39
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#150
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Ally limits
May I respectfully suggest that you DO read all the arguments before repeating one of the many flawed arguments that we've debated interminably over three or four threads?
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
Last edited by ArcChas; 20 Jul 2012 at 05:23.
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