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Unread 28 Apr 2012, 23:47   #1
Kalie
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The facts about CT and FAnG

I normally dont care what people post in here but to get these facts right.

CT offered FAnG a nap ingame till end of round. (24 hours before the backstab)
Off course I was happy to hear this so we postponed it till later to get napped ingame.
After I slept and came back online 12 hours has past...
Monroe pmed me to declare war on us....

HMM why did CT want a nap then declare war on us 12 hours later?

[06:18pm] [SantaCruz] you guys only saw what happened when ct joined our block for those 2 nights
[06:19pm] [SantaCruz] they joined b/c we all had them up for targets
[06:19pm] [SantaCruz] and apprim couldn't convince us to keep hitting nd
[06:19pm] [SantaCruz] then cardi brings in ct and i had to change targets
[06:19pm] [SantaCruz] cardi has been playing our block for ct since the start
[06:20pm] [SantaCruz] him and i used to do the same thing with vsn/app

That's why they changed their minds. Scared to get some incomings and backstab their closest ally to avoid incomings.

At this point FAnG was fighting 4 vs 1 and the block couldnt get roids of us.
So they switched targets to CT. CT heard this from apprime off course and decide to choose the cowardly decision. FAnG HC's never made a statement on AD about this backstab and having well 6 vs 1. We took it on the chin.

Facts that they wanted a nap but changed their word coz scared of incomings.
Facts they will do whateva they can do reduce their own incs.
Facts well no need for me to say more.

What comes around goes around...

FAnG could have sit this round out without seriously incomings and prolly will outroid CT in the end.

We choose this war position coz we believe no decent alliance can win without getting some decent hostiles whole round.
What we choose here isnt for glory. It is just to rectify and justify the backstab on us.

For making this choice we will receive a fair bit of hostiles again becoz of all these propaganda shiet. We are also aware that Ultores can be announced the winner but I as FAnG leader dont really care who wins.


May the best alliance win, Hunting season open on CT and FAnG!
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 00:00   #2
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

?
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 04:44   #3
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Well since Irv is in the mood for facts lets add a few more that he conveniently forgot or left out. Please note that I don't dispute any of the facts he mentions above, the speculation on what they mean is quite questionable in my opinion, but I will leave speculation on that to others. but anyway on with more facts!

When CT declared war:
Ally relations: No NAP, or avoidance other than a fort NAP.
Terms which CT gave Fang when declaring war even though no terms were required: 24 hours notice before hostilities, offer to retain the Fort NAP (which was refused) allowed Fang to set the termination length for Fort NAP expiration (they asked for 48 hours which was granted).
Score differential at time of war declaration: about even.
Value differential at time of war declaration: Fang had a 21 million value lead
Roid differential at time of war declaration: about +10k roids for Fang

When Fang declared war:
Ally relations: Full end of round NAP, no expectation of cancellation according to agreement.
Terms which Fang gave CT when declaring war: roughly 4 hours notice of commencement of hostilities, 24 hours for fort NAP, no negotiation of terms.
Score differential at time of war declaration: about +16 million for CT.
Value differential at time of war declaration: about even
Roid differential at time of war declaration: about +4k roids for Fang

CT decided to declare war on Fang because it was our best shot at winning the round, and while we rarely succeed we are always going for the win. Additionally it was the best way to keep the round from stagnating and we were violating no agreements by declaring war.

Fang decided to declare war on CT because it may be their best shot at winning the round, and they wanted revenge, and decided that their agreements don't matter.

You guys be the judge of who is honorable and who is not.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 05:00   #4
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalie View Post
For making this choice we will receive a fair bit of hostiles again becoz of all these propaganda shiet. We are also aware that Ultores can be announced the winner but I as FAnG leader dont really care who wins.
I wonder if FAnG members will lose as much respect for you as I just did.

You have 80 members under you, most of who are looking to win and as HC you are the guardian of that.

To say you dont care who wins undermines not only yourself but your whole alliance.

<Shakes head>
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 08:10   #5
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

I think it depends how you look at it Forest, i personally dont know much about Irvine, never played with him, but i decipher that line as he wants FaNG to win as its his alliance but he isnt hellbent on making sure a certain alliance doesnt. He declared war on CT because its good for the round, it keeps it alive, if FaNG dont catch up then they had a go, if Ultores take over both alliances then fair play to Ultores, if CT crumble and FaNG win the round then YAY for them, but most importantly aslong as everyone is still playing hard at the end then it was worth it.

I think the main things i take from both HC's in this thread is that Irvine has just said some home truths, laid it out and said this is how it is. Monroe on the other hand looks very nit picky... 'you didnt give us time', 'you said you would be our friends forever and then attacked us', it all sounds very whiny.

I remember its how GM was a few rounds back with xVx and probably further back in instances with ND and others. I think it shows CT in a bad light that the HC's come across in this way and most other HC's wouldbe reluctant to work with them for long periods of time because of it. Its like they have cried wolf so many times that now everyone just takes it with a pinch of salt and carries on.

Personally i dont think CT deserve to win the round, until last night they had no incommings of note. They have basically been the flak for FaNG and Ultores all round, joining up to each block when needed to preserve their roids and avoid incommings. That is not how you win PA. You need to take a beating at some point and show you are defensively good enough to hold on. Last night showed your not (-11k roids is worse than a night on ND btw) and for me wether its FaNG or Ultores who win aslong as its not CT im happy.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 09:30   #6
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I think it depends how you look at it Forest, i personally dont know much about Irvine, never played with him, but i decipher that line as he wants FaNG to win as its his alliance but he isnt hellbent on making sure a certain alliance doesnt.
Well I DO know much about Irvine, having played with him and against him for many many rounds.
It is ok though, I guess you know best, what with having actually read one of his forum posts. Good on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
He declared war on CT because its good for the round, it keeps it alive, if FaNG dont catch up then they had a go, if Ultores take over both alliances then fair play to Ultores, if CT crumble and FaNG win the round then YAY for them, but most importantly aslong as everyone is still playing hard at the end then it was worth it..
No he didn't declare war because it is 'good for the round'. That is the dumbest thing I ever heard.
He declared war to 'rectify a backstab'.
And probably because he thought it was their best chance to win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I think the main things i take from both HC's in this thread is that Irvine has just said some home truths, laid it out and said this is how it is. Monroe on the other hand looks very nit picky... 'you didnt give us time', 'you said you would be our friends forever and then attacked us', it all sounds very whiny..
You are getting worse. Do you even read the posts or just guess what they say?

Irvine posted a few 'facts' which are actually opinion rather than fact.
Monroe then accepted these, and posted 'facts' which were indeed that, based on scores and agreements.

If you would like a lesson, I can quote the two posts and point out the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I remember its how GM was a few rounds back with xVx and probably further back in instances with ND and others. I think it shows CT in a bad light that the HC's come across in this way and most other HC's wouldbe reluctant to work with them for long periods of time because of it. Its like they have cried wolf so many times that now everyone just takes it with a pinch of salt and carries on..
An instance with GM and xVx... yes I remember that. xVx were laughing and bragging about how they couldn't fail. Then they failed. Then they backstabbed.
Everyone saw it.
And xVx haven't gotten anywhere near a round win since.
Even though they have blocked repeatedly with what most agree is the best quality alliance, they seem to find a way to finish 3rd or lower.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Personally i dont think CT deserve to win the round, until last night they had no incommings of note. They have basically been the flak for FaNG and Ultores all round, joining up to each block when needed to preserve their roids and avoid incommings. That is not how you win PA. .
PA is about politics too and is just as important, always has and always will be.
I think we see that with regards to xVx and how they always fail.
You can look back in history and see it.
Fury/Legion/ReBorn being a prime example.

And you do know what flack is, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
You need to take a beating at some point and show you are defensively good enough to hold on. .
No you don't 'need' to do anything. Plenty of alliances have won pa without taking a beating and been worthy winners.
I point you to the round 1up didn't even tag, didn't defend etc all round, then tagged right at the end.
And Asc made history by using xp to win a round with next to no ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Last night showed your not (-11k roids is worse than a night on ND btw) .
It depends on the context. You keep going on about these roids ND lost. But when in the round was it.
I guarantee that had this happened two weeks ago, 11k roids wouldn't have been lost.
You seem to have missed a point, that the later the game goes on, the LESS roids have significance. What is important now is fleet and what we do with it. As far as I know there were only two CT crashes last night. One guy lost 1 mill but is a scanner and his score doesn't count and another couldn't get online to pull his defence fleet.
I have seen more salvage from FAnG to more than make up for it.
1658 roids taken from one planet, but I bet he finishes top 10 still.

I tell you what, rather than me give you a lesson in PA (again), take a few moments to google 'ICM poker'. It is the same principle and you never know, you might learn something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
and for me wether its FaNG or Ultores who win aslong as its not CT im happy.
That is no surprise, seeing as you are one of the biggest failures in PA, who is also disliked immensely.
You post a lot, but nearly everything you post is drivel, doesn't make sense and it seems you don't even read posts before replying to them.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 09:34   #7
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I wonder if FAnG members will lose as much respect for you as I just did.

You have 80 members under you, most of who are looking to win and as HC you are the guardian of that.

To say you dont care who wins undermines not only yourself but your whole alliance.

<Shakes head>
I pretty much stopped playing when we re-accepted the CT nap, didn't care, round was over.
This war got me going again.
Do I care if Ult comes up from behind and pulls off a miracle? ok yes of course. Do I prefer it over CT winning, hell yes
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 09:36   #8
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Originally Posted by Psi_K View Post
I pretty much stopped playing when we re-accepted the CT nap, didn't care, round was over.
This war got me going again.
Do I care if Ult comes up from behind and pulls off a miracle? ok yes of course. Do I prefer it over CT winning, hell yes
Just for the record, if Ult win it won't be a miracle.


Ult became favourites to win the round the moment CT and FAnG went to war.

That said, good luck mate, it is buzzing in CT too and will certainly be a good end to the round.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 09:49   #9
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Monroe, as ever your coherence in posting is far superior to that of anyone else actively contributing to conversations, but it hurts my eyes when you (or anyone else) uses terms like 'honour' in a webgame.

The only post to make any sense in what I've read to keep apprised of what's going on in the world of PA was the one mz made about the implications of political decisions having next to no knock-on effects from round to round. And even then it's not the first time he or anyone else has made that particular point.

PA is boring. It's not possible to do anything within this game that should be taken with anything other than a pinch of salt. Decisions made in a war game will usually involve favouring one group over another, and if you're on the wrong end of a big decision it can definitely suck - but please don't go using terms like 'honour'. Doing so can undermine the points you're trying to make as it comes across as bitter, and makes you look like you're whining - neither wins you any favour.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 10:08   #10
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Just for the record, if Ult win it won't be a miracle.


Ult became favourites to win the round the moment CT and FAnG went to war.

That said, good luck mate, it is buzzing in CT too and will certainly be a good end to the round.
are u retarded? open kia, do some maths, see whats going on in politics and remake ure post

if ult pulls this off then this is a miracle.. tho the chances are as good as butcher understanding whats going on
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 10:24   #11
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

lol Forest. xVx only ever backstabbed napped alliances that was working against us behind our back, getting other allies to hit us and such. If that makes me dishonorable rather than those xVx stabbed, then i'm pleased with being that guy.

As for xVx failing, thats only down to me not willing to play that sort of game. Getting other allies to hit friendly alliances and such. I'll leave that to you guys. When xVx gets rid of me as HC, maybe they'll be in position to win.

I've never bragged about us not being able to fail, that is your mindset building xVx up to be something its not. We're a tight group of valuebased players with the odd inactive/crasher.

You know perfectly well that Kai was no spokesperson of xVx, and i'm sure he can confirm that i've asked him to stay away from AD more often than cardi has kicked yoshi from app.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 10:41   #12
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Well since Irv is in the mood for facts lets add a few more that he conveniently forgot or left out.
I think your facts would be much more convincing if they were all jumbled up into an incoherent mess, with every line prefixed with a nickname in square brackets.

A bit like the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Full end of round NAP, no expectation of cancellation according to agreement.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I think you're a fool for expecting that a NAP between the #1 and #2 alliances, both of which have made it clear that they want to win the round, would last until the end of the round. The best analogy that I can think of is the highschool girl BFF pattern of hanging out for 3 months and then never talking to you again because you stole my boyfriend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
You guys be the judge of who is honorable and who is not.
Of course, the BFF pattern continues with: "we'll make up after 3 weeks of never talking to each other again and both hate the boyfriend instead". The analogy with PA continues to hold.


P.S. And while I realise this cannot be supported by evidence, I do not believe CT would have done much differently in fAnG's position, taking the time pressure into account.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 10:45   #13
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
lol Forest. xVx only ever backstabbed napped alliances that was working against us behind our back, getting other allies to hit us and such. If that makes me dishonorable rather than those xVx stabbed, then i'm pleased with being that guy.

As for xVx failing, thats only down to me not willing to play that sort of game. Getting other allies to hit friendly alliances and such. I'll leave that to you guys. When xVx gets rid of me as HC, maybe they'll be in position to win.

I've never bragged about us not being able to fail, that is your mindset building xVx up to be something its not. We're a tight group of valuebased players with the odd inactive/crasher.

You know perfectly well that Kai was no spokesperson of xVx, and i'm sure he can confirm that i've asked him to stay away from AD more often than cardi has kicked yoshi from app.
i wouldnt bother trying to get any sort of acceptance of your skill from forest if i were you, in his fairytale mind he is the greatest pa player ever probably (more like PAs 1st retarded) and anyone he doesnt like are liars and cheaters, even ABUSERS

youd make more progress talking to a brick wall and no im not kidding
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 12:03   #14
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
are u retarded? open kia, do some maths, see whats going on in politics and remake ure post

if ult pulls this off then this is a miracle.. tho the chances are as good as butcher understanding whats going on
We will see, but Ult are favourites now

Anyone with any tactical nouse will know that
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 12:11   #15
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
lol Forest. xVx only ever backstabbed napped alliances that was working against us behind our back, getting other allies to hit us and such. If that makes me dishonorable rather than those xVx stabbed, then i'm pleased with being that guy. .
That is one opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
As for xVx failing, thats only down to me not willing to play that sort of game. Getting other allies to hit friendly alliances and such. I'll leave that to you guys. When xVx gets rid of me as HC, maybe they'll be in position to win. .
I have said it before and will again, I can only ever do something to win.
That is just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
I've never bragged about us not being able to fail, that is your mindset building xVx up to be something its not. We're a tight group of valuebased players with the odd inactive/crasher. .
Lots of people were saying it, both on here and irc.
And you crashed badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
You know perfectly well that Kai was no spokesperson of xVx, and i'm sure he can confirm that i've asked him to stay away from AD more often than cardi has kicked yoshi from app.
Amen
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 12:39   #16
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

hmmm we didnt play block for ct at the start. we said before we were not part of any block, we would help if the alliance target pissed us off. CT never hitted us, it was always fang/nd. so we were gonna wait it out till ct breaks away from fang, that was our only goal after fang/nd started targeting us.

yea ct would leave fang if they would get hit, so thats what app wanted. we didnt expect ct to nap fang again so fast tho. also we had our own goals that arent same as block goals.

like we would hit ult at the start but not hit xvx.

we would hit fang nd, but not ct. doesnt mean we are in bed with them, just means it doesnt benefit us.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 15:53   #17
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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P.S. And while I realise this cannot be supported by evidence, I do not believe CT would have done much differently in fAnG's position, taking the time pressure into account.
This is the only point I will take contention with, CT does not break deals they make. If we make a NAP until the end of the round we will keep it. If the positions were reversed with Fang we wouldn't have asked for an end of round NAP, we would have just asked for a 1 or 2 week NAP, or an indefinite NAP with clear terms under which it can be broken. This is the only real difference between CT's and Fang's political actions, and we will remember how we were treated, perhaps others will as well.

I don't think I've shown surprise at Fang's actions in any of my postings, and I'm not whining about them going for the win, I certainly understand the motivation. My only point in my postings on AD is that certain people in this game can be trusted to keep their word and others can not. What people do with that information is up to them.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 15:57   #18
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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This is the only point I will take contention with, CT does not break deals they make. If we make a NAP until the end of the round we will keep it. If the positions were reversed with Fang we wouldn't have asked for an end of round NAP, we would have just asked for a 1 or 2 week NAP, or an indefinite NAP with clear terms under which it can be broken. This is the only real difference between CT's and Fang's political actions, and we will remember how we were treated, perhaps others will as well.

I don't think I've shown surprise at Fang's actions in any of my postings, and I'm not whining about them going for the win, I certainly understand the motivation. My only point in my postings on AD is that certain people in this game can be trusted to keep their word and others can not. What people do with that information is up to them.
Maybe you should realise that CT and FAnG don't get treated differently by the rest of the universe. Just because CT holds higher values of play (read: they have more underhand deals with hostile alliances), doesn't mean the rest of the universe should too. If anything CT is beginning to isolate themselfs in this universe.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 16:21   #19
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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....it hurts my eyes when you (or anyone else) uses terms like 'honour' in a webgame.
You really think that honour has no place in gaming? As far as I'm concerned my word is my bond - and that doesn't (and shouldn't) change just because the people I'm dealing with have no chance of finding me.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 17:08   #20
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Facts that they wanted a nap but changed their word coz scared of incoming.
The nap offer was on my order, i left to go on training for a week for work and my hc did not agree with the decision, it wasn't because they were scared of the incoming.

When i got home the first thing i did was speak to Irvine and told him we would not be hitting FAnG, i was then told this:

[16:01] <Irv> Get apprime off our backs also and sighs we will help you
[16:01] <Irv> Your only chance to make things right

I did this, but then were can apprime go roiding if not ND!!!!

I offered Irv avoidance and irv wanted a nap till the end...

in terms of ct/fang then we betrayed fang, no doubt. after I got back from England the agreements put in place were personal between me and irv/fang. I trusted Irvine and Titos and my HC trusted me when I made them without consulting them on it.

So this wasn't a back-stab on CT, this was a back-stab on me! Irvine chose to let mob decide as he knew what the answer would be. Irvine and Titos decided to break their word and that will never be forgotten!

"Proud to be FAnG" .... not any more!
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 20:02   #21
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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You really think that honour has no place in gaming? As far as I'm concerned my word is my bond - and that doesn't (and shouldn't) change just because the people I'm dealing with have no chance of finding me.
That's just it, there's a difference between conducting yourself amicably and having a reputation for doing so (and visa versa etc.), and using words like 'honour' to describe your behaviour. If somebody goes against something they've said in regards to a webgame, then no - I don't believe it is a question of 'honour' (which is subjective anywho).

You can break an agreement with another alliance whilst still 'honouring' your commitment to your own alliance, your own members and other alliances. Thus, to describe somebody/a group as being dishonourable is seldom appropriate.
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Unread 29 Apr 2012, 20:30   #22
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Perhaps you'd be happier with the word "trustworthiness" then but, to me, that is the same thing.
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Unread 2 May 2012, 14:41   #23
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

I worded that reply badly. Trustworthiness is only one part of the larger concept of honour.

I suppose that I'm trying to say that keeping ones word and sticking to ones agreements is still important in games - at least to me.
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Unread 3 May 2012, 17:53   #24
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Are you really trying to say there is more 'honour' in how CT have conducted themselves this round, than the actions of any other alliance? I think youll find the least honourable alliance award this round, should certainly be given to CT
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Unread 3 May 2012, 20:40   #25
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Why?
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Unread 3 May 2012, 21:14   #26
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

From my own personal understanding of how things have happened, of course im just a peon, Ill attempt to break it down for you ...

Firstly, CT are responsible for organizing the block to suppress ultores. Not FAnG as many were led to believe. While at the same time encouraging apprime etc to attack FAnG (their supposed ally). Very honourable!

Next, they decide to do the 'honourable' thing, and declare war on the top ally (FAnG), around about the same tick they pass us anyway, due to us getting all the incs from Ultores and pals, and CT managing to grow and roid unharrassed, obviously the temptation to join the 'fang bang' was too much for some in CT. The 48 hour nap was really irrelevant, as you had already passed us, and were just waiting to join the party with the other 6 allies already hitting us. Where is the honour in this ? I respect the fact the #1 ally should be challenged, but those odds are unbeatable, unfortunately, everyone needs friends, and ours stabbed us in the back. FAnG accepted your declaration of war with pleasure, we didnt whine about it.

I find it funny that you come on here whining about honour, and expect to be able to lie and cheat your way to the top spot, every ally has taken part in dodgy politics, that has to be said, but CT are no more honourable than any other, and coming on here bleating about honour makes you look even more pathetic. This is a war game, and politics are a big part of it, take the beating without crying, if you are deserving of #1 you should be able to hold onto it, CTs ability to hold onto roids, other than ronins, is lacking
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Unread 3 May 2012, 21:32   #27
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

All that seems to be "normal" PA politics. You certainly haven't demonstrated why CT should be designated "least honourable alliance of the round". In fact, CT stuck to its agreements this round - as it always does. As for FAnG, if you agree a cooling off period for a NAP you stick to it - otherwise no one believes you the next time you ask for one.

You are, of course, entitled to find amusement wherever you will - but don't accuse me of "whining" , about honour or anything else, without some basis for your accusation.

As for roid loss, when all the universe comes for your roids you lose them - simple as that. If you wanted to point out a weakness in CT's performance during the "bashing" you should have highlighted the many needless crashings of ships.
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Unread 3 May 2012, 21:45   #28
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Werewolf says he gave GM fair warning of the nap ending, I believe him.

Im sure it is all normal politics, but my point is, no one alliance can be put on a pedastal, and trying to make out CT is more honourable than others for its nap cooldown period is laughable! Like it exonerates you from all the other filthy shit youve been upto!
There have been crashes from every ally this round, even Ultores, I didnt feel like pointing out something which has been common to all the top allies

and your right, everyone loses roids when the swarm turns on them :crymeariver:...
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Unread 3 May 2012, 21:49   #29
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

Also, it appears to me that CTs 'trustworthiness' is only skin deep..
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Unread 3 May 2012, 22:37   #30
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Werewolf says he gave GM fair warning of the nap ending, I believe him.
This is a misleading statement that werewolf has been propagating. Yes he did come and tell gm that Fang was ending the NAP (which was still breaking Fang's agreement with CT), but he did it what appeared to be a joking way. When gm asked Titos and Irv about werewolf's statement they denied it, thereby invalidating it in our minds. Turns out werewolf was right, but CT had no way of knowing that at the time, especially since Fang had consistently said the NAP was round long and would not be broken.
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Unread 3 May 2012, 22:51   #31
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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if you agree a cooling off period for a NAP you stick to it - otherwise no one believes you the next time you ask for one.
Only CT still believes in things like cooldown periods, the rest of the allies have stopped caring about them rounds ago. As for the rest of the future, when FAnG wants to NAP CT again, CT will go into it again aslong as it is beneficial for CT i am sure.

imho, what CT has to learn is that a NAP will be ended (be it either by CT or the other party involved) when it stops serving it's purpose, and that NAPs need to be mutually beneficial.

CT should really get off their high horse, as when the high horse trips, the fall will be far worse.
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Unread 3 May 2012, 23:01   #32
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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CT should really get off their high horse, as when the high horse trips, the fall will be far worse.
Couldn't agree more
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Unread 3 May 2012, 23:03   #33
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Only CT still believes in things like cooldown periods, the rest of the allies have stopped caring about them rounds ago. As for the rest of the future, when FAnG wants to NAP CT again, CT will go into it again aslong as it is beneficial for CT i am sure.

imho, what CT has to learn is that a NAP will be ended (be it either by CT or the other party involved) when it stops serving it's purpose, and that NAPs need to be mutually beneficial.

CT should really get off their high horse, as when the high horse trips, the fall will be far worse.
What is new about this?
Its exactly how CT conducted their politics this round, as everyone else, for their own interests.
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Unread 4 May 2012, 02:27   #34
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Only CT still believes in things like cooldown periods, the rest of the allies have stopped caring about them rounds ago.
VGN cared about such things passionately during the time I was with them. If they abandoned their principles when you took over then I'm glad I wasn't there to witness it.
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Unread 4 May 2012, 02:31   #35
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Couldn't agree more
Whose sock puppet are you anyway?
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Unread 4 May 2012, 02:35   #36
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Whose sock puppet are you anyway?
I am noones sock puppet, that may be difficult for you to understand though, as your obviously so used to being one yourself.
Ultores are wearing you like a glove!
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Unread 4 May 2012, 03:30   #37
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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VGN cared about such things passionately during the time I was with them. If they abandoned their principles when you took over then I'm glad I wasn't there to witness it.
For the record, i was only an official HC in VGN for r38, before that(r32-r35) i was only an officer. When i was in VGN i believed in the same values you did. However keep in mind that during the time i was an officer in VGN, VGN didn't play for the win. With VGN, much like TGV this round, we chose a side and stuck to it.

I lost those values and beliefs in r39 myself, when i was a low-level BC in imperia and they napped that round to shit, and furthermore in r42 after incidents with both CT and xVx.

Funnily enough, in the late VGN days, i encountered multiple incidents with CT not adhering to the values you hold so dear. For instance in r38, after Lexmark decided to step down as HC, CT gave us the choice to either drop our NAP with apprime or CT would drop the nap and ptarget us the same night (while we had agreed to a 48 tick cooldown period).

IMHO, a vital difference between the late VGN rounds (r32-38) and recent rounds, is the size and stability of the blocks. Where in those rounds blocks on both sides often consisted of 4-6 alliances that sticked together for the almost the entire round to then fight it out between #1 and #2 in the last week. Blocks nowadays consist of 4-6 alliances on one end, and 1-2 alliances on the other, and only last for a short period of time in which a major opponent is oppressed.

Back then, alliances up to the 14th rank were almost all politically involved in one way or another. Nowadays, being a politically involved small alliance like TGV, we are treated and looked upon as pariahs and tailcoats.

The political landscape in this game has changed, and it is just CT who (pretend to) still hold on to the same old values. Time has come for CT to change with them.
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Unread 4 May 2012, 13:19   #38
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
The political landscape in this game has changed, and it is just CT who (pretend to) still hold on to the same old values. Time has come for CT to change with them.
Although presumably you're right in that it's changed there's no need to think that sticking to agreements will somehow make the game overly restrictive. We had many very fluid rounds where people stuck to their agreements. They just didn't make unrealistic agreements in the first place.
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Unread 4 May 2012, 13:37   #39
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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I am noones sock puppet, that may be difficult for you to understand though, as your obviously so used to being one yourself.
Ultores are wearing you like a glove!
Either you genuinely don't understand the term or you're pretending to be even dumber than you appear.
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Unread 4 May 2012, 13:47   #40
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
Funnily enough, in the late VGN days, i encountered multiple incidents with CT not adhering to the values you hold so dear.
I remember many similar incidents.

I think people may be misunderstanding my point of view here. I'm not speaking on behalf of CT (or anyone else) - I'm "only" a peon in CT and have been such ever since I joined them. I have no influence over their policies or conduct.

I'm simply stating my attitude towards keeping ones word. I think that it's important - others don't. "Your mileage may vary".
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Unread 4 May 2012, 17:58   #41
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

- pointing out that you think an agreement is unlikely to last because one party will probably be tempted to break it doesn't actually justify someone breaking it.

- pointing out that this is a game and/or that everyone only does something if they stand to win something because of it, is also a pretty shit justification for going back on your word.
If you turn up for a game of football in the park with some friends and you reach an agreement not to shoot inside a certain range, then go ahead and start breaking that agreement because you start falling behind, you will look like a dickhead and no one will like you. For good reason.
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Unread 4 May 2012, 20:17   #42
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Re: The facts about CT and FAnG

The problem with the game is that uv got too small player base now. which means u have 2-3 alliances fighting for #1. The rest are mostly cruising along. This will result in things like this bad blood and so on. I would hope to see one round where everyone who got the balls agree on no all vs 1 tactics like seen all this round.

But this will never happen this is in my dreamworld. As iv said in fang channel multiple times this game should be made to work with facebook or something and wham u get ur universe back like it used to be in like rounds 1-9 . Then there will be nice battles again.
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