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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 15:36   #1
Rabbagast
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When in Rome..

Anyone familiar with this famous quotation ? :


When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

What do you think this means ?
or more specificly how do you understand this ?


For those of you with a special interest in this, please look at the quotations below :

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in Rome, do as you would at home



My reason for this was originally an Export Project I was working on.
I figured it could be quite interesting to look at it in a Planetarion-Community perspective aswell, and (perhaps) how people adjust to their alliances, allies/enemies, clusters/paras etc

I'll start the thread without my pre-stated view on this, avoiding my own opinions to influence people in any specific direction..
before you guys have had a chance to state your objective(?) and personal views on it first.

Nothing can be really wrong, but try to keep it relavent

Let's have some fun with it

..and maybe we can find some groundbreaking facts to add to HobbieRogue4's thread about "..loyalty factor"
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 15:48   #2
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"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

This quote is usually used to tell someone to behave in an appropriate way whilst he visits another culture or community in a broader sense.
So somsone who is visiting another place should tolerate their rules and their habits to melt into this new community and to prevent any missunderstandings (especially americans have the special ability to violate this alot )

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in Rome, do as you would at home"

I would say it means the same but adds the spirit of behaving like foreign property would belong to you (in a positive sense).
So you treat other ppls goods and properties with the same respect like you would treat your own stuff and maybe even treat other ppl like they would belong to your family.

To transfer this onto pa i would say if you join a new alliance you will have to accept their rules and procedures and need to behave correctly to grow yourself into this new surrounding. A good example would be the first alliance i joined recommended the use of irc regularly while before i only used icq. To find a place in this community i had to adopt useing IRC. i.e. doing like the romans do.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 15:50   #3
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if i would act in a c/p channel like i would at home i would get kicked out of all of them :>
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 15:52   #4
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hmmmm

doesnt apply to PA at all. no-one bothers obeying to alliance rules/proceedures anymore. god knows i wouldn't / don't. I tend to do the opposite and go out of my way to be different and rebelious (yeh I know, I'm just like so cool!)

Then again i don't get anywhere in the (****) community but I have loadsa fun along the way.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 15:54   #5
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excessum u r not loved!
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:06   #6
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What Focht said..
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:31   #7
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i happen to be in Rome september 16-18.
and perhaps i will even do as the romans do. :eek:


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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:44   #8
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well in rome i hear they pinch alot of ass maybe alliances should start a new trend
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 16:56   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Razorback
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

This quote is usually used to tell someone to behave in an appropriate way whilst he visits another culture or community in a broader sense.
So somsone who is visiting another place should tolerate their rules and their habits to melt into this new community and to prevent any missunderstandings (especially americans have the special ability to violate this alot )

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in Rome, do as you would at home"

I would say it means the same but adds the spirit of behaving like foreign property would belong to you (in a positive sense).
So you treat other ppls goods and properties with the same respect like you would treat your own stuff and maybe even treat other ppl like they would belong to your family.

To transfer this onto pa i would say if you join a new alliance you will have to accept their rules and procedures and need to behave correctly to grow yourself into this new surrounding. A good example would be the first alliance i joined recommended the use of irc regularly while before i only used icq. To find a place in this community i had to adopt useing IRC. i.e. doing like the romans do.








I think Focht sums it up pretty well here, How ever I would disagree on the part where Americans tend to violate this a lot (maybe a few cases but not as a whole) There is stupid people in all cultures and walks of life.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." This is really a obvious statement it is a perverse way of them to get you all to wear togas and drink. Just watch out for the guys with the mirrors on the shoes rather Norty J.



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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 20:28   #10
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It was reportedly what a barbarian chief who was invited to visit Rome told his warrior bodyguard when they asked him how to behave when they got there.

Simply said, when you are in someone else's home (in the broadest sense), you follow their customs.


A very amusing example of how not to do this can be seen every year at postoffices all around France, where US tourists insist that the La Poste employee behind the counter speak english to them.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 20:38   #11
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Well..somebody having trouble communicating with French does not by any means mean they are behaving badly in my experience.

During all my travels in Europe, I've never had trouble anywhere except France. Everywhere else, just learn a few phrases like 'hablo English?' etc, and they'll appriciate the effort and atleast try to communicate with you. In France they'll just get offended you mispronounced.

As many things the American can be condemned for; they most certainly can't be blamed for not getting it on with the French
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 21:07   #12
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I interpret this to mean that when you visit a foreign culture, you leave your pride at home. For example, in America there have been numerous groups of immigrants who have entered this country, then expected us to accept their culture as a separate entity from our own. I guess I always assumed emmigrating to another country meant assimilating yourself into their culture? If not, then why did you leave in the first place? If you move to Rome, do as the Romans do. If you don't like how the Romans do things, then why did you go there? Go home.

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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 21:36   #13
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People, in general, imitate 'successful' ways of behaving. They imitate the people they admire, the people that they look up to. The same applies in PA, people often try to imitate other, more successful players.

If a person, or an alliance, develops a successful tactic or idea, it will be copied by others. That way, successful ways of playing the game will become more common (e.g. alliances using IRC). Unsuccessful ways of playing will become less common, because nobody will want to imitate them (e.g. building PDS ).

The best alliances are the ones that can retain their 'culture', but remain open to new ideas and ways of thinking.

To answer the original question, I think that "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" simply means that a person should try to be aware of the customs and culture of their environment. For example, the first time a new member of an alliance gets incoming, he might start spamming the alliance channel. An older member will then tell him that he should PM an officer with the details of his incoming if he wants it to be handled quickly. It's a bit embarassing for the new member, because he has shown himself to be new and unaware of how things are supposed to be done, but once he has learned the rules, he will be able to fit in properly with the alliance. If a person ignores these rules or customs, he will be seen as stupid, lazy or obnoxious, so it is best for the person to fit in with the way the community operates.
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 21:55   #14
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"When in Rome...." could be considered from two different angles in Planetarion. On one hand you have the relatively harmless development of small customs and ways of organisation which naturally spread from the successful on down, sometimes in spite of the fact that there aren't necessarily any inherently useful qualities in these minor tactics. Equally there is also the possibility that "cheating" can spread due to this idea. A community where cheating is established as an acceptable method of behaviour, for whatever reasons, will doubtlessly convince any new members it gains of the validity of these methods.


As much as there is to be respected and learned from in other cultures, there can be found a certain degree of immorality (to the extent that that can be applied) resulting from the operation of closed communities.




PS People don't always admire what's best in life rob ;)
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 22:08   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ComradeRob
If a person ignores these rules or customs, he will be seen as stupid, lazy or obnoxious
SUPERCATZZ???
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Unread 23 Aug 2003, 23:58   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbk100
SUPERCATZZ???
His Shiftiness is a typical example of a person that does not 'fit' into a large alliance. Which is a great example of why they suck.

'When in Rome, do as the Romans', when applied to PA is an issue of efficiency. When in Fury, do as Fury rules dictate to keep the machine running smoothly. There are some behavioral patterns that don't just apply to pseudo-military organization: When in Legion (or Titans), be an arrogant prick to non-members to keep that 'us>you' illusion going. When in hirr, become a pr0n-slave.

But these are more often simply the 'culture' of these alliances. Mostly people will already have friends in an alliance they join (part of the benefit of the voucher system), and will already be acquinted with its culture (and will usually desire to be a part of it). So in my opinion, it's a non-issue in PA.

There are very few cases of actual 'culture-shock', ie situations where people are scorned for their inability to comply with social standards. Most often situations that lead to people not fitting in, are cases of 'drama' or personality clashes (or both).
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 01:20   #17
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 01:25   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by KoeN
i happen to be in Rome september 16-18.
and perhaps i will even do as the romans do. :eek:


people who want to join me pm me on IRC \0/
So ur going to flirt with every female tourist around and try to sell stuff to the male tourist?

Cuz thats what the ppl there do
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 02:16   #19
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Jonny and Jester make excellent points, particularly in regard to "playing standards" (cheating, non-cheating) and "alliance culture" (behavioral patterns).

"When in Rome..."
Consider "when in winning alliance/block" behave as winners and cherish it, for there's no guarantee it will last (even the entire round).

Consider "when in non-winning alliance/block" behave as the underdog, yet fearless in your attempts to unseat those above you.

Consider "when in public" such as it is with the PA forums (particularly AD)...

"...behave as the Romans do."
...behave according to the current "tide" of the situation (thread, forum, alliance morale-building).

Additionally, behave as you "should" behave according to the alliance (or other entity) you represent.*

"When in Rome, do as you would at home."
This is most interesting when you consider how players forge their "characters" and "careers" in PA (namely alliance-related). In a PA alliance way, one cannot really behave the way they would at home, especially if they are a 'newcomer' to an alliance (you don't fart at your girlfriend's parent's dinner table, unlike your own).*

What tends to happen is that this changes once someone has found their niche in the game, and in particular, their "home" in an alliance (or being allianceless).

Additionally, it comes together best when several persons form a "home" (alliance, BG, cooperative entity) that serves their every purpose, especially when "home" and "Rome" become one.**

*To a point (when personal and alliance issues conflict).

**Victurus te Saluto!
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 06:12   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Denniz
So ur going to flirt with every female tourist around and try to sell stuff to the male tourist?

Cuz thats what the ppl there do
no be the tourist myself :P
and i know a nice girl in 'ciampino', little town in the south of rome..will call her i think
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 16:05   #21
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The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. 2002.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do


When visiting a foreign land, follow the customs of those who live in it. It can also mean that when you are in an unfamiliar situation, you should follow the lead of those who know the ropes


==============================================

This is applied every day when people join alliances, especially when people want to gain a certain status within.
This is applied every time you join a battle group, or even in a real life group when making friends, people even un-knowing submit to this when they buy fashionable clothes because they are trendy. Become Goth , because there friends do it . and even worst, when they Cheat in a web based because "others do it "
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Unread 24 Aug 2003, 16:20   #22
WebAngel
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Quote:
Originally posted by cyphie
french people suck:/
erm Rome is in Italy but nm... (It has been french for a while tho...)
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Unread 25 Aug 2003, 01:49   #23
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I've always heard this quotation used to justify more ... hedonistic behavior. One element of Roman culture, well of the upper class at least, was orgies and large scale feasts almost on a bulimic (sp?) level. Thus the context for this quote would be a "well refined" individual finding themselves in the middle of a bath house or some other location where loose sexual practices would be going on, and then shrug their shoulders and say "when in Rome ... "

I then see this application of the quote applying to players trying to achieve the top scores ... either as justification for breaking the rules of the game: Why did you multi/farm? "When in Rome ...", or as justification to play selfishly overall: "Why don't you leave slots open for defense?" "When in Rome ..."
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Unread 25 Aug 2003, 02:49   #24
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Flexibility...adaptation...behave....and in general just get a positive attitude only when you get out of your cave...you're just a visitor...act as a visitor..

Unfortunately, some people can't hide their real skins in whatever, whereever they are...just to win...maybe a walks of life...
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Unread 27 Aug 2003, 19:59   #25
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Rabbagast, you have way too much time on your hands....
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Unread 28 Aug 2003, 14:50   #26
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No Rabbagast, all that Roman stuff tells me nothing.

But cheating HC's giving it a shot on AD always amused me
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Unread 30 Aug 2003, 14:18   #27
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Unread 13 Sep 2003, 21:27   #28
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It just means u should act like the locals are used to act.

This, however, to a degree where it cannot be viewed as an insult.

And in PA it probably means u gotta abide by the rules of HC, but who in this age and day gives a damn bout that?
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