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Unread 2 Jan 2014, 17:24   #51
isildurx
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobzy View Post

Removing the Cr capacity means Xan can only effectively defend against itself (Fi) and Zik Fr only whilst being hit first on attack despite having the worst defensive stats of any race. Essentially, you'd be making them a dead race for next round.
What?? How can xan not defend effectively vs ter bs and both de fleets?

As it is now, xan is immune to CR incs(spectre), they stop DE(fireblade + fi flak), zik fr, both bs fleets(spectre vs ter and bomber vs etd) and xan fi well.
Basically xans are open to cat CO and xan fr, unless you want to make big teamups. Talk about overpowered.
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Unread 2 Jan 2014, 19:25   #52
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by Bobzy View Post
Spectre isn't that ridiculous at all. Doesn't do massive damage against the high armoured Ter Bs and then less efficient against Zik/Cat Cr.

Xan is bad enough with these stats at the moment as Pegs, Beets, Ghost AND Investors all fire before their Fi enemies with Wyvern, Viper/Scarab, Marauder all firing before their Fr enemies (and Etd's Kraken at the same time).

Removing the Cr capacity means Xan can only effectively defend against itself (Fi) and Zik Fr only whilst being hit first on attack despite having the worst defensive stats of any race. Essentially, you'd be making them a dead race for next round.

Are you even looking at the same stat page as everyone else?

Spectres fire before Ter BS

Fireblade fires before Ter DE

Essentially Terran cannot land Xan without losing value.

Xan Fi/Co is only outinted by EMP (not a deterant) or ingal/pled defships.

With the ability now for anyone to steal any ship they desire via covops Xans could essentially pick up some Co pods (we all know how) and team with Cat Co and be unstoppable.

A defensive combo of Bombers/Widows is viable vs BS and CR though agreed not brilliant. Spectres/Tulas for the more active alliance would deal with CR/BS incs very easily tho.

CR is ridiculously OP with these stats tho, the maradur (did you spell it wrong on purpose?) and the roach are ridiculous and i would hedge my bets that Tia's chosen alliance will be CR with these stats.
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Unread 2 Jan 2014, 20:02   #53
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

All races are unbalanced, stop pointing out xan only. As Tia will take that as: Xan is op... needs to be nerfed and rest stays as it is. Xan has 2 good ships, and 2 unviable attack classes.
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Unread 2 Jan 2014, 21:38   #54
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Lol? Xan can be hit by two classes, and they are cloaked. Xan would, by far, be the most popular race with these stats.

I don't see any of the other races being as hard to hit as xan, and xan is always strong on offense.
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Unread 2 Jan 2014, 22:22   #55
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Lol? Xan can be hit by two classes, and they are cloaked. Xan would, by far, be the most popular race with these stats.

I don't see any of the other races being as hard to hit as xan, and xan is always strong on offense.

LOL is today opposite day?
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Unread 2 Jan 2014, 23:47   #56
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

I thinking of adding Cr T2 on tarantula so that emp isnt just but****ed by the 100k value def fleets that stop there solo's
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 00:16   #57
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I thinking of adding Cr T2 on tarantula so that emp isnt just but****ed by the 100k value def fleets that stop there solo's
Basically just make xan/cat fi/co with spec/Tula def ships better??? BRAVO!!!
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 00:18   #58
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Few of the recent changes:

Kraken to steal init 19
Buccaneer and Dealer to init 20.

D/c Dropped on Spectre a bit.

Corsair/Cutlass name switch.

Cutlass t1 t2 switch and init 19.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 00:34   #59
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

I think the biggest question is though, how many of the fort players have looked at these stats and said 'so half of us go Ter BS + harps and the other half go Xan FB's, Ghosts and Specs, init all round and no one except HUGE teams will land us' ??? The more i look at these stats the more pockets of hyper defensive play i spot in them. I reckon that a 50/50 Xan/Ter gal could almost be immune to incs by tick 500. The harpy is almost LOLable against fi/co.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 00:39   #60
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post

D/c Dropped on Spectre a bit.
Have you uploaded this change on the beta server yet? Cos i just calced and 15% value of Spectres to Ter BS was forcing a recall and that is poor in any standards
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 00:58   #61
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

umm it might be because its a faster init ship and def always wins vs attackers. Right now I'm just considering dropping spectre.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 01:07   #62
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Spectre to Bs T1 Cr D/c A/c Adjusted

Wyvren D/c dropped a bit

Corsair a/c d/c increased
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 06:35   #63
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

But now bs is op. Nothing gets near it and only the Tula outints it, again we always ignore emp cos it's NOT a deterrent. The main issue with spec IMO was its cr targeting not its bs targeting. If your goal is offensive stats then the more ST ships you have the better. You have WAY too many MT ships in this set for anything more than a boring snoozefest to occur. You can target 5 classes effectively with 3 ships with each race. This should take minimum 4 ships to do and preferably 5. Targeting all 6 classes MUST take 5 ships and for an open round each race must pathetic against 2 classes. Make 4 races awful against BS is not the way to go. Don't have your most effective anti ship cloaked (either xan or etd) they are good compliment ships but should never be the 'don' ship or they will just be massed and just take a whole class out of the game. Cloaking in itself is op don't boost it anymore by giving it a ridiculous int.

IMO xan shouldnt have a seige ship but that's my opinion, i don't think it fits there race profile.

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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 09:53   #64
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
Are you even looking at the same stat page as everyone else?

Spectres fire before Ter BS

Fireblade fires before Ter DE

Essentially Terran cannot land Xan without losing value.
People seem to be looking at the Xan ship stats too simply. Both the Spectre and Fireblade are pure defence ships (there's an argument that you could use Fireblades in attack against Ter, but any def at all against Fi will be a recall). I'm not sure how efficient they'd therefore be without being def whores all round.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 11:18   #65
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by Bobzy View Post
People seem to be looking at the Xan ship stats too simply. Both the Spectre and Fireblade are pure defence ships (there's an argument that you could use Fireblades in attack against Ter, but any def at all against Fi will be a recall). I'm not sure how efficient they'd therefore be without being def whores all round.
If people cant attack you then you you can amass roids and not worry about attacking. Xan has the advantage of cloak, on defence this can threefold an alliances def capabilities, even to the extent with these stats that if you went Fr + FB's that bombers+ghost flak deal with BS (its not pretty but not terran will crash 1/3 of its value on an off chance). You would be immune to Fi/Co (only the Viper out ints the Ghost and that is T2, without even factoring in the Bombers that would flak it would take ALOT of vipers to get past a Xan FR fleet. Fireblades deal with DE all round long and from what i see of these stats currently nothing deals with FR at alliance eta effectively. You are literally relying on ingal Cr/Bs or PLed def all round long. As i repeat if you setup with a 50/50 Ter/Xan gal then you are basically inpenetrable from mid round, the small size of BS needed to counter FR incs defensively and the cloak of Xans makes cross def a doddle.

Xan and Terran for that matter become 'immune' to 90% of attackers very quickly and you could sit on a nice roid pile for a long period amassing value and making yourselves more untoachable.

As the stats currently stand a CR/BS or pure Xan Fr alliance will win the round and a galaxy of actives which is pushed heavily towards the Xan/Ter persuasion should coast to gal win. Planet win is more political than people like to think and really comes down to how much your alliance pushes planet ranks over other things. Any race can win that but my betting self would say it wont be a Zik or ETD as both races are vastly poorer than Xan/Cat/Ter which is where i would imagine atleast 75% of the playerbase will be.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 12:38   #66
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Sad part is not a single person has made a suggestion except to FLAME everything one way or another.

No ideas how to make terran NOT un roidable, no ideas how to make Xan not as strong. Just people spewing more nonsense. Plaguu and Jintao have been more helpful then everyone else in this community, no offense Isuldurx.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 12:49   #67
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Identifying problems is not the same as flaming. If you feel like they are wrong, that's another matter altogether.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 13:08   #68
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Sad part is not a single person has made a suggestion except to FLAME everything one way or another.

.
Yeah because I sure didnt recommend a removal of the CR targetting of the xan CR ship.........

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm flaming.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 14:04   #69
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Sad part is not a single person has made a suggestion except to FLAME everything one way or another.

No ideas how to make terran NOT un roidable, no ideas how to make Xan not as strong. Just people spewing more nonsense. Plaguu and Jintao have been more helpful then everyone else in this community, no offense Isuldurx.
I could sit here and waste hours correcting or 'suggesting corrections' to your stats but there is so many they would end being a completely different set and then i may as well have spent my time making my own set.

The issue with these stats Tia is that at a base level they are poor, they are nowhere near what you claim them to be, the volume of work needed on them is ridiculous. My honest and non flaming suggestion would be to start from scratch, work out what your goals are before you start and then build them up. When a set of stats goes up they should need at best 2-3 targetting changes and minor eff tweaks, if the set needs wholesale changes then it wasnt good enough to go up in the first place.

For record no one is flaming you, no one has made any comment personal in this thread directed at you. All negative comments have picked up on glaring errors in your stats, on things that will make the round bad. It is not up to those people to correct your errors for you, you are the stat maker, that is your job to come up with the solution primarily.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 14:20   #70
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

A few Suggestions, YAY!


Ter,
Reduce Armor on Phoenix, Consider removing the T2 FR target
Remove CO From harpy targeting

Raise Emp Res on some ships

Cat

Switch beetle and viper T2 targeting

Remove t2 from Black widow

Scarab Change t1 to CR, reduce efficency, init to 3



Xan

Remove CO class from race
Add fi that targets DE or Change t2 on spectre to target DE

Zik,
Give FR fleet a normal dmg ship

Raise Emp res

Etd,

Swap BS, Make Kraken Emp and guardian steal, or cloak

Reduce Emp res on some ships
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 14:37   #71
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

hello, dont know if this is where to post this, but i used the R54 stats as a base for these. I know there isn't much time before the round starts but this is what i came up with.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap3o0Emqvl_KdE4ybTNvTWJVZWNuT3JPdWQzUW1ZdHc&usp=sharing[/url]

Stuff:

Offensive stats, difficulty for alliance def.
Mirror race matchups are unfavorable for attacker if in gal.
Variety of races is favored.
Efficiency of ships is scaled up with tech tree.

I have no idea how emp, pods, and STK's work.
A/C, D/C might be way borked, but i borked them all the same so hopefully it works out.

Please rip it apart
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 14:48   #72
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

If etd and zik get stronger, there's less need for ter/xan/cat to get weaker.

in that perspective, maybe give etd as only race a T3 ship, on the emp De and make it emp Fr (as only race in the game that has De do something against Fr)
That, I think would give Etd an edge no other race has and would make them slightly more interesting. (and since it's emp, it's not overpowering)
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 22:18   #73
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Terran BS looks way too good to me tbh, can roid every race, has the init advantage over everything that targets it bar emp.

Xans also looks really good to me, don't think I'd consider any other races.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 22:35   #74
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Terran BS looks way too good to me tbh, can roid every race, has the init advantage over everything that targets it bar emp.

Xans also looks really good to me, don't think I'd consider any other races.
Completely agreed. Best 2 races by a mile.


Tia can you explain why a Destroyer (investor) has 30 more guns than a Battleship (Guardian) and twice as many as the Cruiser (Roach).

It doesnt make sense that a lower class ship would be more armed, is there something wrong in your maths??
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 22:42   #75
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

I'd also like an explanation of how one is supposed to survive as cath. I particularily like the Roach's T2 eff, with the Beetle T2 eff a close second.
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 22:48   #76
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Tia can you explain why a Destroyer (investor) has 30 more guns than a Battleship (Guardian) and twice as many as the Cruiser (Roach).

It doesnt make sense that a lower class ship would be more armed, is there something wrong in your maths??

Because they target different things, they are not "more armed". More guns does not mean better armed.

Is there something wrong in your common sense?
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 22:53   #77
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

So you think the Roach T2 eff is fine Patrikc?
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 22:56   #78
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Stats from my end are now final. A few things that I did today was split all the fr/de fleets into 3 ships but keep the 4 targets. I did this to try and open a few more holes.

I also moved Spectre back to a Cr t1 BS init 4 to help ease the pain of ter bs dominance.

Dropped ter bs D/c about 40 points.

Swapped spirit targeting to allow for better effs.

EDIT: Also adjusted Fr emp res, added more guns to roach in order balance out the t2 fire on Roach to atleast be comparable to Viper T2
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 23:09   #79
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Time to sign up as xan!
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 23:10   #80
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Because they target different things, they are not "more armed". More guns does not mean better armed.

Is there something wrong in your common sense?
I dont think i have ever seen a emp ship with more than 20 guns, let alone 40 so as im asking again what have you done to require that many guns to balance things???
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 23:14   #81
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Time to sign up as xan!
I think i will go Terran, but only cos i cant be assed to attack and defend and it will be less called on than Xan
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 23:23   #82
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

I see the Clipper still doesn't do any damage. Really nice to see you've put in a lot of effort Tia.......
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Unread 3 Jan 2014, 23:42   #83
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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I see the Clipper still doesn't do any damage. Really nice to see you've put in a lot of effort Tia.......
Cathaar spy!!!
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 00:37   #84
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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I dont think i have ever seen a emp ship with more than 20 guns, let alone 40 so as im asking again what have you done to require that many guns to balance things???
Expensive ship shooting at cheap ship, it's literally that simple. You're making a big deal out of nothing when there are far more important issues with these stats.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 01:35   #85
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Time to sign up as xan!
Im not sure its any reason to sign up at all.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 14:21   #86
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Am I the only one who thinks Cath looks terrible?
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 14:23   #87
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Nothing wrong with these stats. Lets all be xans, CLOAK ROUND!
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 16:07   #88
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Am I the only one who thinks Cath looks terrible?
I said that for me, it looks like cath is a race Tiamata never plays himself, so by the look of it, he cant make em good for those that only play cath.
Last time i remeber playing cath under Tia(?) stats was R47, and they were as bad then.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 17:37   #89
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Time to sign up as xan!
I don't see what you're seeing as so great with Xan tbh
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 17:46   #90
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Cloaked, can just spam FI and FR attships, hard to roid, decent fi att fleet. What's not to like?
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 17:54   #91
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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I don't see what you're seeing as so great with Xan tbh
If you cant see it then stop looking cos you will never find it. Ill give you a hint tho, it begins with C and ends in LOAKED.

If you cannot understand how OP cloaked ships are then you are a bit of a lost cause im afraid. Anytime Xan is made remotely viable it is OP which is why so many stat makers make Xan appalling to play.


That said i gave these stats a thorough calcing last night and i think the 3 ship DE/FR fleets will be the death of this round. From what was promoted as 'agressive, attacking' stats these have quite quickly morphed into defensive fort playing stats and although personally that is how i like to play its not what was advertised by the stat maker.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 18:01   #92
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Anytime Xan is made remotely viable it is OP which is why so many stat makers make Xan appalling to play.
This is just false. If it were true, we would only have rounds with less than 10% or more than 25% Xan in the top 100. This is not even the case in a third of all rounds.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 18:01   #93
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Maybe the two cath Norm ships should have "Norm" prices?

Edit*

Do a clean up on etd aswell
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 18:14   #94
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Cloaked, can just spam FI and FR attships, hard to roid, decent fi att fleet. What's not to like?
They look alright defensively but get out init'd by all the main ships (Wyvern, Roach, Marauders included in this) apart from when attacking other Xans with Fr or Ziks with Fi and, also, have only 2 T2 ships.

Looks like a race that will be hard to land with and on - which is pretty much the opposite of most Xan setups.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 18:16   #95
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

Yes landing is harder, but since you're xan you can send our three att fleets a day no problem. Those defships are all vs the shitty fr fleet, it's the fi fleet which is going to be the main attfleet. Also, all those defships you mentioned have to be sent ingal.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 18:20   #96
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Yes landing is harder, but since you're xan you can send our three att fleets a day no problem. Those defships are all vs the shitty fr fleet, it's the fi fleet which is going to be the main attfleet. Also, all those defships you mentioned have to be sent ingal.
Ingal is almost always the problem. Fully expecting most of the uni to be Ter with these stats so bound to be plenty of Pegs. Fi can't get past much y'know...
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 18:31   #97
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

On the bigger planets, it's usually the alliance which has to do the job. Ingal mainly helps vs solos and small waves* tbh.

*which hardly land these days
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 18:42   #98
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

And do remember that BPs are only 3 and galaxies smaller, so harder to rely on ingal def.
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 19:14   #99
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

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Ingal is almost always the problem. Fully expecting most of the uni to be Ter with these stats so bound to be plenty of Pegs. Fi can't get past much y'know...
Tbh the harpy is better than the peg. The peg is quite poor this round
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Unread 4 Jan 2014, 19:19   #100
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Re: Round 55 stats - any takers?

The Peg flacks the chim and vice versa though
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