Cooling queries etc.

[Androme]

I've been looking up but I can only find FAQ's on Watercooling being good for overclocking. But since computers nowadays are becoming faster, more heat is being produced right?

What cooling devices do I need - a list and suggestions of actual parts in the UK are wanted. I've heard of:

- Watercooling Kits
- Hard Drive cooler
- Corsair have a heat spreader on their XMS memory chips ...

Q: Do I need a CPU fan & Heatsink if I got a watercooling kit or made one myself (unlikely to be self-made heh)

my current machine is a bit hot and v. noisy (lousy heatsink) - 47*C CPU, 32*C System & 38*C Power (BIOS) and I want to know what I need to reduce the noisy to a bare minimum and to reduce the CPU *C to 30ish

I have a MSI tower, with 4 CD/DVD bays and 2 Floppy bays in the case and a Mainboard if that has any effect whatsoever (so a P4 1.8 GHz) - AND RATHER than suggest what I need for my P4 system atm, I'd like to know what would be good in a few months time when I decide to (as suggested by u lot) get the parts for an AMD system

Thanks.

[Gayle29uk]

Simple answer from someone who has a stock system...

Get a Zafman flower jobby. That'll reduce your CPU temp and noise levels without going overboard on unnecessary costs. Your temp isn't really all that high so unless you have money to burn on a silent system that should do you I think. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will tell me

[edit]Water cooling is really for serious cooling/overclocking/case modding freaks. Xtrasyn is probably a good person to ask [/edit]

[meglamaniac]

Typo Gayle! Zalman, she means.

Anyway.
Harddrive cooling plates etc are options in watercooling kits, along with graphics card plates and other stuff.
As Gayle said, water cooling is only for people who want the ability to really push thier machine while running it quietly. You don't need (and indeed can't have) a heatsink/fan when you're watercooling the system.
Before you go out and buy a silent cooler like the Zalman thing, take the side off your case and listen carefully - where is the noise comming from? Some PSU fans are noisey too.

[Androme]

Originally posted by meglamaniac
<snip>

thnx megla - Zafman came up oddly

my thoughts were that a watercooling jobby only cools down the CPU Temp and not anything else in the case altho the screenshots I have seen have tubes running near the gfx card etc. - but I'm just wondering if I got the Zalman CPU h/s would I need a fan and would a GPU cooler be needed if I overclocked my GF4 (but it has a fan thing on it so I do need a GPU cooler? no I think)

if I purchased an AMD cpu chip (example) w/o the H/S/F, how would the cooling system 'cover its space' ?

er - for some odd reason if I remove the side of my case, the BIOS beeps - or at least did that when I removed the side and turned it on (I was just seeing how much heat came out from the side of the case)

sorry for these q's - case modding is a new world for me

[meglamaniac]

That beeping means you're BIOS has case intrusion detection.
There's two options for getting round that.
1) Go into the BIOS and turn it off.
2) Take the side off once the machine is allready running.

Water cooling cools down whatever you can attach to it - you just have metal plates which have water running through them, and the water carries away the heat. Obviously you can get them to attach to CPUs, and other kit as well.

The Zalman flower thing comes with a fan and all the equipment and instructions needed to attach it (because it such a big fan (so it can rotate slowly and quietly) it has to be attached in an odd way).
The fan on your GF4 should suffice, but generally overclocking the graphics card is overrated - you get little extra performance in real terms (maybe a few extra frames a second in q3a).

"if I purchased an AMD cpu chip (example) w/o the H/S/F, how would the cooling system 'cover its space' ?"
Not sure what you mean there.
If you mean the Zalman, there are several models for the various chip types - make sure you get the one for AMD Athlon chips (probably called the Socket A model). It covers the chip and the 'blades' on the fan spread out to the left and right as well.
If you mean the watercooling, a small metal block covers the chip and thats it, apart from the pipes.

[Androme]

Originally posted by meglamaniac
<snip>If you mean the Zalman<snip>

thnx again - I was looking at the flower cooler and was wondering how it would work with it just being a h/s - it's an oddly designed h/s so I thought a fan would not be possible to be attached but I've seen at QuietPC how it can be - problem ok

[Q] so the onboard fan for my GF will do fine? thnx

[Q2] something else - on QuietPC, it stated that the 400W UltraQuiet PSU (noise seems 2b coming from the h/s &/or PSU area) would be wise if the CPU was running at 2 GHz or above and if I had more than 9 components connected (or somein) - does that mean heatsink, fan, gpu, pci cards, cpu chip, ide's and floppy drive are each 1 component?

[Q3] Would the SilentDrive be wise? (£25) In the system I am likely to bung in a 80GB WD one (will fit) and the present 40GB one I have so reducing the noise would be a good choice or not? I am unclear if SilentDrive cools 1 HD or 2 and how it would interfere with ie: the DVD drive

[meglamaniac]

[Q2] See the guide on this board that's stickied about choosing a PSU.
[Q3] Not worth it - if you buy a decent HD they operate in near silence (both my Seagate Baracuda IV's are unnoticable).

[Androme]

thnx - speedy responses and I'm sure it could come in handy @ one time or another in the future

the reason for the silentdrive was because it stated it could reduce the likeliness of the hdd have a life reduction from heating up - it's not the sound this time - it's the cooling

something I've noticed with my research is that it's kind of like either "cooling" or "sound" with each thing for each component required

[meglamaniac]

Thats generally correct, as the more you cool something the more effort you have to put in to getting the heat away (so the more noise).

The only real exception is of course water cooling - not because there's any less effort, but because the components used (a typical setup might be a water pump and a couple of big fans that rotate relatively slowly to ventilate the radiator) are much quieter, while water is very good at absorbing heat.

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by meglamaniac
...water is very good at absorbing heat.

Side note: Water is also very very good at destroying expensive components as several people have found to their cost

[meglamaniac]

Use deionised water.

[Luckeh!!!!]

Originally posted by Androme2
But since computers nowadays are becoming faster, more heat is being produced right?

In theory yes, but not by much each time.

This is because of a few physical attributes when making the CPUs. I won't go into it too much but basically as the manufacturing process becomes smaller (or the design technology for manufacturing becomes better), there is less distance between transistors, therefore requires less power to for data to travel between transistors.

Less power = lower heat.

BUT, the main reason for a smaller process is the *less distance between transistors* part, less distance = quicker data travels between transistors, therefore faster speeds.

The above negates the *less power = lower heat* but the actual increase in overall temperature is small.

For example, my processer is an AMD Athlon XP2000+ Palomino (the manufacturing process size is 0.18nm, I can't get the funny U shape symbol to show )

With a similar setup with respect to cooling, the new AMD Athlon XP2600+ Thoroughbred runs cooler (about 5C) due to its smaller process (0.13nm)

So even though my processor isn't the fastest, it is among the hottest (I believe only behind the aMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4Ghz, AXP2100+ and AXP2200+)

That is it... roughly.

[Androme]

thnx leshy & big thnx to megla overall

just hit me as I put on the kettle, wouldn't water evaporate if it's absorbing heat? when water reaches high enough temperatures, steam will form ...

?

[meglamaniac]

Thats why there is a water pump (to circulate the water so it actually carries away the heat) and a radiator + fan(s) (to dissipate the heat in the water back into the room).

[Androme]

no-more q's needed but no-point in a new thread - I preserve my topic count : P

I'm looking at a groovy case by Gainward I think but it says: "Motherboard: ATX, Micro ATX, P3, P4" - this means I can't insert an Asus nForce2 a7n8x mobo doesn't it? but the ATX bit makes me wonder if I can stick in a Socket A Mobo

http://www.globalwin.com.tw/new-product/gat001.html

ta.

[sh@dow]

yes its atx, it'll fit

[meglamaniac]

Ignore the P3/4 business - just read the form fact (in this case, ATX).

As sh@dow said, If you buy an ATX form factor case and and ATX form factor board then they will fit (there are other form factors, such as MicroATX).

[Leshy]

Originally posted by Androme2
thnx leshy

You're welcome. I guess.