new alliance stats -> cheaters caught

[mist]

everywhere i look, alliances are anti cheating. hc never know their members are cheating, don't condone it, would kick people if they knew etc.

however, most people i talk to don't believe this.

so, how about the alliance pages showing how many members of that alliance have been deleted during the round, and how many planets have been punished for cheating during the round. this would add a bit of substance to the debate

also, how about whenever a planet is closed, an internal message is sent to the alliance's hc, informing them of the planet's coords and the reason for their closure. again. alliances are always saying that they don't want cheaters. this would give them a chance to kick the cheaters

-mist

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by mist

so, how about the alliance pages showing how many members of that alliance have been deleted during the round, and how many planets have been punished for cheating during the round. this would add a bit of substance to the debate

I don't think alliances are likely to publicize the number of members punished for cheating because that would reflect poorly on them and it would be used against them.

also, how about whenever a planet is closed, an internal message is sent to the alliance's hc, informing them of the planet's coords and the reason for their closure. again. alliances are always saying that they don't want cheaters. this would give them a chance to kick the cheaters

But how would anyone know if they kicked the cheaters or not?

If you want to try to shame alliances into cracking down on cheaters then I think the only way to do it is to start by listing the name, coords and alliance information for all closed planets and make that list public for all to see.

[Browolf]

a public list of planets closed and what alliance they were a member of at the time sounds a good idea to me.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

If you want to try to shame alliances into cracking down on cheaters then I think the only way to do it is to start by listing the name, coords and alliance information for all closed planets and make that list public for all to see.

numbers of cheaters in an alliance i can see as feasable. however, i really can't see pa publishing the names of cheaters. their coords... i'm not sure how right now, but i can see what going horrifically wrong somewhere along teh lines

admittedly people usually know this stuff anyway, but i agree it'd be nice to have some of it in print, as it were

perhaps there should be a forum for hunters to put up a summary of each case that's deleted - alliance they were in, coords they were, and what they did that was bad, not huge amounts of detail, but enough for the alliances to take informed swings at each other rather than the random arguing that seems to happen a lot at the moment

[LEFF|pm]

Originally Posted by mist

everywhere i look, alliances are anti cheating. hc never know their members are cheating, don't condone it, would kick people if they knew etc.

however, most people i talk to don't believe this.

so, how about the alliance pages showing how many members of that alliance have been deleted during the round, and how many planets have been punished for cheating during the round. this would add a bit of substance to the debate

also, how about whenever a planet is closed, an internal message is sent to the alliance's hc, informing them of the planet's coords and the reason for their closure. again. alliances are always saying that they don't want cheaters. this would give them a chance to kick the cheaters

-mist

*back up*

would love this...

[I am Idler]

wouldnt a database displaying how many members that have cheated infact only contribute to giving the alliance a reputation as a 'cheaters den' if you may.

I perfectly understand the point, and its a good one. but I dont understand the reason to discriminate a entire alliance.

People of planetarion are not yet smart enough to understand the complexity of "HC not knowing". Or so it seems..

Perhaps a list as mentioned, but with other information, such as real name. (note: add the paragraph mentioning release of real name to public if convited of cheating in planetarion). perhaps a bit radical and un-realistic, but you get my drift.

[Killerbij]

I think this only leads to namecalling and flamings of alliances that had members that cheated. Often these alliances arent even aware of the players past. And people that cheat will most definately use different names in the game if this is put into action (either when playing or after being marked as a cheater). Thus its only alliances that get branded as the black sheep.

The only effective use it may have is as a deterrant for cheaters that like to be in their alliance. But like I said; most will simply use fake nicks. And Planetarion isnt allowed to give us the names that come with the nicks (which is a good thing). Also you have cheaters and cheaters. I myself 'cheated' up till first week of rnd 8 giving away details becuase Spinner started ticks late and I couldnt be there. I wouldnt like to be the one that has to decide what offense is big enough to be banned from alliances forever. Also people change; a 14 year old PAX player plays the game a lot differently than a 20+ year old.

I'd much rather see the amount of cheater hunters increased then have a display of the cheaters. If an alliance wants to come forward with names its their own choice.

[mist]

Originally Posted by I am Idler

wouldnt a database displaying how many members that have cheated infact only contribute to giving the alliance a reputation as a 'cheaters den' if you may.

true enough, or clear that reputation. for example fang (who now have ldk i believe) could get next to no closures, hence redeaming ldk's slightly dubious reputation. something i'm sure they'd be pleased about

Originally Posted by I am Idler

I perfectly understand the point, and its a good one. but I dont understand the reason to discriminate a entire alliance.

People of planetarion are not yet smart enough to understand the complexity of "HC not knowing". Or so it seems..

true, and i accept that, however on the flip side, there's cheating that some HC DO know about, as was demonstrated quite successfully by that meeting MrB had with them a while back. while the HC can't stop all cheating i feel they do have a part to play.

all alliances are going to have some cheaters, if we're being realistic. however if alliance A has had 3 caught, and alliance B has had 30 caught... you've got to think that maybe alliance B is up to something.

at the moment there's no real incentive for alliances to stop their members cheating. some do, some make a show of doing so, but that's not a lot. a ranking based on it would give them a reason to take it more seriously

Originally Posted by I am Idler

Perhaps a list as mentioned, but with other information, such as real name. (note: add the paragraph mentioning release of real name to public if convited of cheating in planetarion). perhaps a bit radical and un-realistic, but you get my drift.

i'd love that as well, hell, their address and phone number would be fun however, not very realistic. perhaps include a "cheater" flag in their passport, so that people can see they've been convicted in previous rounds? if the passport carries payment info and stuff as well as just names and addresses this could be a real deterant

and on a completely seperate note. multi hunting does need to get better. it always will. there are also cases that simply can't be proved one way or another. however, anything that decreases cheating is, imo, a good thing. hence i think this would be a good thing

-mist

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by mist

perhaps include a "cheater" flag in their passport, so that people can see they've been convicted in previous rounds? if the passport carries payment info and stuff as well as just names and addresses this could be a real deterant



-mist

this is a great suggestion. 10 points for mist.

[Killerbij]

If I had a flag like that I wouldnt care unless it was visible to the public; and then I'd just register a new account

[Assassin]

lol gud point killer

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by mist

true enough, or clear that reputation. for example fang (who now have ldk i believe) could get next to no closures, hence redeaming ldk's slightly dubious reputation. something i'm sure they'd be pleased abouttive for alliances to stop their members cheating. some do, some make a show of doing so, but that's not a lot. a ranking based on it would give them a reason to take it more seriously

People would simply accuse them of being better at hiding it.

[mist]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

People would simply accuse them of being better at hiding it.

true, but at least the alliance could claim to be competent! :P

as for dumping the passport. as far as i'm aware, the passport holds things like your p nick, and game credits and such... "just making a new one" could be fairly inconvenient

-mist

[Zh|l]

I really don't see the point. It will only bring more accusations onto the "field" so to speak.

[Killerbij]

Some people will do anything to win a round. Besides not every cheater gets caught (and that is what many of these people will think). They will simply balance it off; a top position in a round of PA and being forced to PERHAPS make a new passport or being a lowly ranked n00b. Its not that hard a choice if u are one of them

[Jellinek]

I would like to see a thread in Planetarion Discussions where multi-hunters (or their boss) posts details of all succesful hunts. IMO, details should include planet details, pnick and alliance if they are known.
This way, the multi-hunters can show they are doing their job (long thread = sign of lots of ppl being caught). It could also work as a deterrent.

Other threads, counting the amount of cheaters per alliance would probably be made by the community if it was not posted in this one, so why not edit the 1st 'overview' post every time a planet was closed, thus keeping all info contained in one thread.

Sure, HCs may not know about all cheaters in their ranks, but all of them have publicly spoken out against cheaters, so why would they mind? I can imagine Alliance X posting 'we removed yyy from out memberlists because of proven cheating'. Would be nice publicity, no?

My 2 cents..
Jellinek

[mist]

Originally Posted by Jellinek

I would like to see a thread in Planetarion Discussions where multi-hunters (or their boss) posts details of all succesful hunts. IMO, details should include planet details, pnick and alliance if they are known.

judging from AD, planet and alliance are pretty much known anyway. so is p nick, but i can't see this being realeased as i'd imagine it being a breach of privacy

-mist

[izverg]

Originally Posted by mist

true enough, or clear that reputation. for example fang (who now have ldk i believe) could get next to no closures, hence redeaming ldk's slightly dubious reputation. something i'm sure they'd be pleased about

hehe, funny to come back time after time to read those forums, still make me smile
nice conspiracy theories