Planetarion Forums

Benneh · 19 Mar 2006, 21:54

Well just an idea that was kinda a joke but hey i thought it seemed pretty good.

Rather than killing ships with sabotage, ziks can steal them. Maybe it would have to be limited or something but its such a shame to see good ships go to waste when you sabotage

<DeLoS|reading> 'an enemy agent escaped from our planet today with a dragon. we were unable to stop him'

OH YES!

~from the serious mind of Benneh

DeLoS · 19 Mar 2006, 21:59

and i even got some credit \o/

it's a good idea imo, would be fun

mylove · 20 Mar 2006, 11:10

great idea. but have it so all races can develop the abilty as they work there way down the tech tree but ziks start with the ability

DeLoS · 20 Mar 2006, 14:08

nah, that's missing the point imo.
ziks are the ones who steal ships, hence they'd be the ones getting a steal-ship-covert op.

[Aequitas] · 20 Mar 2006, 21:26

I like it, it would definitly generate some interesting gameplay....

Vas · 21 Mar 2006, 00:53

Ziks stealing ships through covert ops

would be cool to have though

Ultimate Newbie · 21 Mar 2006, 01:14

I think its a good idea, however clearly the effectiveness should be lowered - i would imagine that it would be more difficult to nab a ship and bugger off with it, then just place bombs near the fuel tanks of multiple ships. Thus, whereas you might be able to kill 100k resources worth of ships using a blowing up covert op, you would only be able to steal a max of 50k (0.5*) of ships.

Benneh · 21 Mar 2006, 01:26

yes it would have to be limited but it would make it abit more fun

Maybe you cant make a profit from it (so more res worth in ships than your cov opping)

Ultimate Newbie · 21 Mar 2006, 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

Maybe you cant make a profit from it (so more res worth in ships than your cov opping)

That might be best, indeed

.

Razgriz · 21 Mar 2006, 02:40

i like the idea but rather than having Ziks being able to steal any ships they want why not have them only able to steal other zik ships. To compliment the other races would it be possible for co-op agents to hinder the same race by:

- Xan co-opers dissable a targets stealth for a set number of ticks
- Cat co-opers use emp to dissable a certain amount of ships rendering them useless for a set number of ticks
- Ter co-opers lower a targets armour for a set number of ticks

Just off the top of my head.

Kjeldoran · 21 Mar 2006, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razgriz

i like the idea but rather than having Ziks being able to steal any ships they want why not have them only able to steal other zik ships. To compliment the other races would it be possible for co-op agents to hinder the same race by:

- Xan co-opers dissable a targets stealth for a set number of ticks
- Cat co-opers use emp to dissable a certain amount of ships rendering them useless for a set number of ticks
- Ter co-opers lower a targets armour for a set number of ticks

Just off the top of my head.

Well, I wouldn't specify the cov-op abilities to only be able to target your own race. Zik's should be able to cov op (and thus steal) other races aswell.

What we cannot forget is the place cov-ops have. They're additional warfare, hardly determining, hardly decisive ... but a nice extra tool to annoy your opponent.
And with all this in mind, the stealing should be rather limited.

That said, if you give Zik a special Covert Operation, then you should make one for each race.

Razgriz · 22 Mar 2006, 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Well, I wouldn't specify the cov-op abilities to only be able to target your own race. Zik's should be able to cov op (and thus steal) other races aswell.

Ordinarrily i would also like it if all races had a specilised cov-op that they could use on any race. The reaon i only looked at individual races attacking each other is becasue i have no idea how difficult it would be to implicate it into the game therefore i was keeping my idea as simple as i could.

Although i do like the idea presented what are the chances of seeing such cov-ops in the game and will they really make a difference?

Shyne · 22 Mar 2006, 02:45

a race specific covop is certainly a nice idea and surely very easy to add for next round.

Teargas · 22 Mar 2006, 03:10

I would hope to see this in the new round definitely. Great idea, especially if each race has their own unique covert operaton.

Razgriz · 22 Mar 2006, 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teargas

I would hope to see this in the new round definitely. Great idea, especially if each race has their own unique covert operaton.

Again, before i start i do like the idea. However i think that just liking the idea isn't enough, i believe that if these cov-op were added to the game they would be used for a while because its something shinny, pretty and new but imho after the initial buzz of a brand new feature has worn off, these new cov-ops will just be like any other and take a backseat.

Shyne · 22 Mar 2006, 03:39

I think it depends how you look at it.

I can currently steal 85k res every two ticks from someone - that in theory is 80 cruisers a day or so, assuming I didnt sleep.

Thats quite a gain from covops.

Teargas · 22 Mar 2006, 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razgriz

Again, before i start i do like the idea. However i think that just liking the idea isn't enough, i believe that if these cov-op were added to the game they would be used for a while because its something shinny, pretty and new but imho after the initial buzz of a brand new feature has worn off, these new cov-ops will just be like any other and take a backseat.

True, however I don't see them just taking a backseat. Just like every feature someone in the game uses them while others just brush them off. I'm sure not everyone in the game uses "exploding fist" for instance.

Squidly · 22 Mar 2006, 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

<DeLoS|reading> 'an enemy agent escaped from our planet today with a dragon. we were unable to stop him'
h

I can see it now... the next day, the pilot reports for duty..... The first thing he says: "Dude. where's my dragon?"

I like the idea. Quite a bit

That alone would almost make me take cov ops for a round. I would *love* to see how many ships I could swipe over the course of said round.

frostbeule · 22 Mar 2006, 12:43

it would be cool indeed, but the stolen ships should have an eta to your planet as it is the same as if they would return attacking there. faster than the normal returning eta tho as they flee.

Banned · 22 Mar 2006, 12:44

This isn't actually a new idea

Razgriz · 22 Mar 2006, 17:26

hmmm so i see. Looks like Kal had the final word there

i wonder if he's changed his mind...

Banned · 22 Mar 2006, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razgriz

hmmm so i see. Looks like Kal had the final word there

i wonder if he's changed his mind...

I think he was so psyched about reintroducing real stealing that he didn't bother considering the idea much.

Razgriz · 22 Mar 2006, 17:38

tbh reading the old thread that Banned has supplied i'm starting to lean away from the idea. Ziks can already steal through combat so what real benifit is a cov-op doing the same thing? If it was to be introduced there could be an unbalance in the game depending on how its coded ofc.
Again i think that the shelf-life of such a cov-op will be short lived because it's just something new. I don't feel it will bring players any new stratagy or depth to the game.

LukeyLove · 22 Mar 2006, 21:15

I think its an interesting idea, i think cov ops definately need something new but not really sure if the stealing ships idea is what it needs for a nice makeover.

Travler · 23 Mar 2006, 06:10

How about ziks being able to steal structures??

Cath could freeze them for the number of ticks required to build. Then just give xan and ter better sk's in general and it would balance out.

I like the idea of stealing as a covert op. Not much different than actual warfare tactics in the modern age. Thats how the USSR got the atom bomb.

furball · 23 Mar 2006, 09:54

Constructions? oh please god no.

Let's say the cov-op cost 40k of each resource, and you own 100 constructions. Building a construction would cost 100k of each resource.

That's not fair.

(oh and inevitable distorter issues)

sale · 23 Mar 2006, 12:28

i dont like the idea, personally i would only covert op ziks to get steal ships and use the ships to steal more...
i dont like that fact...

Benneh · 23 Mar 2006, 17:31

but you dont know what your gonna steal?

you can target a zik yes but you never know what ya gonna steal.

Graham · 3 Apr 2006, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tweaker

but you dont know what your gonna steal?

you can target a zik yes but you never know what ya gonna steal.

Yes, but if you target Ziks enough then you are going to get steal ships eventually, and then you will have every race stealing, Caths EMPing Ziks and stealing more steal ships with the ones they got from covert ops and eventually they will be as bad as Ziks themselves!:crymeariver: Its the Zik special ablity and i dont think we should take that away from them and let everyone do it.

DeLoS · 3 Apr 2006, 00:17

:thumbsup: to Graham for getting the point

Ultimate Newbie · 4 Apr 2006, 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeLoS

:thumbsup: to Graham for getting the point

I was under the impression that the stealing covert op would be race specific to Ziks only, and replace all other race's "Destroy the Shippies" covert op - ie, instead of killing the ships, the Ziks (only) would steal them (at a reduced rate).

Thus Cathaars wouldnt be able to steal anything.

mitchbtu · 4 Apr 2006, 05:08

Im not sure I am in favor of any of these ideas, Ziks can already steal so why add a covert ability to them? Any new covert added should be avail to all.. Personally I dont covert all that much, but have friends that swear by it. If for some reason the ziks being able to covert steal ships is done, then maybe take the other races special ability and make it for the same ammt of ticks as it takes for the ziks new ship/s to arrive home... This may however be making the game to complicated... I hope Im making sense with my thoughts, Im very tired....

Bromcrysal · 4 Apr 2006, 05:53

hmm, might it just be easier to add an 8th covop, but one that's different for each race. Let's see...

Zik, of course, steal ships. but if it's a bigger covop, let's make it big. Maybe a minimum agent level of 25 or so, and the same cap as blowing ships up.

Catharr are all about EMP... so let's make them do something similar to the "portable emp emitters" thing... but bigger, and temporary. once again, a high minimum agent level (25 or maybe 30) A max of 25% of amplifiers and(/or) distorters shut down for 4 ticks (6, or even 10 ticks, maybe)

now Terrans and Xandathrii are not so good at covops, but I've got Ideas for them, too...

So, Xandathrii are all about swarms of little ships, so, maybe it would be cool for them to organize swarms of the little people! Xandathrii could start a Riot in the shipyards! This one would have a smaller min agent requirement (maybe 10) but would set back all ship production by 1 tick. sort of like the hacking: science database, but with production.

And for Terrans, well, they're supposed to be humans, right? And we're money-grubbing bastards, so let's give them something similar to bank-system hacking... Banknote forgery! The target doesn't loose resource, but you gain double what you would have gained from a bank hacking job.

Just some brainstormed Ideas. feel free to make more sugguestions. I kinda like them, tho!