|
16 Nov 2006, 22:10
|
#1
|
Flash in the PAN
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
|
Whats happening with PAN development?
(21:05:10) (Ronald) Whats happening with PAN development? my question was deleted
(21:06:03) (@Appocomaster) all the pa team run away now
(21:06:06) (@Appocomaster) Wakko: what about it?
(21:06:07) (Juice) lol
(21:06:21) (@Appocomaster) btw
(21:06:37) (Lunar_Lamp) <Ronald> Whats happening with PAN development? my question was deleted <== peter is in neverland, but captain hook is currently causing problems.
(21:06:37) (@Appocomaster) hehe
(21:06:47) (@Appocomaster) just for amusement
(21:06:57) (Ronald) Lunar_Lamp: ill accept that as the only response coming. everyone knows PAN was CANned
(21:07:00) (@Appocomaster) I have to admit that if we had an allcomp, you'd have won
(21:07:04) (Ronald)
.... question is not answered and remains ignored
Trimmed down slightly so that Marv doesnt get his knickers in a twist - JC
Last edited by JC; 17 Nov 2006 at 12:35.
|
|
|
16 Nov 2006, 22:14
|
#2
|
I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
PAN was shut down due to no one started creating it (afaik)
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 07:20
|
#3
|
Hamburger
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 221
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
propenis ftw!!!
ah shame that the ally was renamed...
__________________
4S, Elysium, Madcows, ToT, LCH, Vision, NoX ... long break. then lately
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 11:52
|
#4
|
Jazz Man
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,494
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clause 5 of the Official Forum Rules
The posting of large IRC logs and/or News reports is boring and of no interest to the large majority of board users. Ten lines is the maximum allowed length for posted irc logs. If you wish to post such things then make sure they are to the point and easy to read or provide a suitable link.
|
You posted ~ 40 lines when only 3 were on the subject of what was needed.
On the subject of PAN - Lunar is correct. The project has been abandoned for now.
__________________
Marv
Ex ROCK HC & PA Team Head of Support.
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 14:25
|
#5
|
Flash in the PAN
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Ok - thats all you needed to say. Noone responded so I posted here for an answer.
There's plenty of big announcements about 'WOW PAN DEVELOPMENT SOON' and its all swept under the carpet when inevitably nothing happens.
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 14:59
|
#6
|
Raaaaaaaah!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,296
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
What was PAN ?
__________________
Hicks
Mercury & Solace
Always [Fury]
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 15:01
|
#7
|
[Vision]
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
No one knows
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 16:23
|
#8
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
PAN as a single entity was cancelled, most of the ideas for it have been brought forward into the PAX codebase.
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 19:05
|
#9
|
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 386
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Like what ?
__________________
Adapt has never been an official ND HC. He was on his way to promotion for some reason, but then got denied promotion. Lol at the muppet claiming he has been
|
|
|
17 Nov 2006, 19:28
|
#10
|
[Vision]
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
No idea, but if thats the case PAN can hardly have been an improvement on PaX so all in all good it was cancelled then i guess. Hope the new team (if that is still doing something) is actually getting somewhere fast.
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 06:25
|
#11
|
Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
PAN as a single entity was cancelled, most of the ideas for it have been brought forward into the PAX codebase.
|
Rather, most of the (good) ideas were proposed then "decided" to be too large or unworkable.
Meanwhile, the tweaking continues.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 11:11
|
#12
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Rather, most of the (good) ideas were proposed then "decided" to be too large or unworkable.
Meanwhile, the tweaking continues.
|
Thats actually not true, most of the key PAN parts other than a passport and new combat engine are already in the game. e.g. alliance fund, current galaxy system. Other big changes will follow for round 20 as stated in the the announcement about next year.
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 11:37
|
#13
|
[Vision]
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
I'm not sure about the priorities, but i wouldn't class the alliance fund and the galaxy system as the key features of this game. Hence the "ow so great improvement" PAN doesn't appear to be more than just a few new features added to PaX instead of the innovative/great changes we've been expecting for ages now. I just hope that r20 doesn't prove to be alot of hot air aswell :/.
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 12:30
|
#14
|
Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Thats actually not true,
|
Actually, it is.
This is an example of good ideas being implemented to change the game "PAN" style.
Quote:
alliance fund, current galaxy system
|
This is tweaking.
__________________
#Strategy ; #Support - Sovereign
--- --- ---
"The Cake is a Lie."
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 16:37
|
#15
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
I would disagree that things like the galaxy system are merely tweaking. The universe structure is one of the key aspects of the game.
PAN as it was orginally defined was really just a php recode of PAX with an addedd passport and improved admin features. The gameplay changes that would have been added included tweaks to the universe structure and a new combat engine. There were potentially other areas such as quests that could have bene developed, but it was by no means gauranteed. The only changes from PAN that can't be implemented without a proper recode are a revamped user interface. I think Appocomaster mentioned the shear volume of changes planned for round 20 in the last CH.
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 16:44
|
#16
|
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I would disagree that things like the galaxy system are merely tweaking. The universe structure is one of the key aspects of the game.
|
Here I disagree. Deciding which buddypack size should be allowed, private or public gals, or how many people should be in a galaxy as well as how many galaxies are in a cluster is really just tweaking.
Revamping the "galaxy system" would include a lot more, including (for instance) dynamic traveltimes in a real three dimensional universe.
PS: Where can people find a log of creators hour?
__________________
Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 18:44
|
#17
|
Flash in the PAN
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
I thought the main aspect of the work in PAN was the recode, to bring the form and function of the game into the 21st century. Neater more structured code written from scratch with massively configurable parameters (from stats to formulae) would make issues aforementioned as tweaks very quick jobs.
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 20:08
|
#18
|
The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
All the changes over the past few rounds feel like minor tweaks instead of major brand new things. Every round has a new set of ship stats and a few ideas which manage to get sorted.
The UI should be high on the list of priorities though, it's starting to look ancient.
|
|
|
18 Nov 2006, 21:13
|
#19
|
Flash in the PAN
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birmingham, Romania
Posts: 554
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
A new UI would also help a lot more people play, because mobile phone browser can't handle the current setup, or bloated markup simply makes it too slow.
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 08:56
|
#20
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Here I disagree. Deciding which buddypack size should be allowed, private or public gals, or how many people should be in a galaxy as well as how many galaxies are in a cluster is really just tweaking.
Revamping the "galaxy system" would include a lot more, including (for instance) dynamic traveltimes in a real three dimensional universe.
PS: Where can people find a log of creators hour?
|
deciding bp size etc yes is just tweaking - but to allow the current bp system loads of stuff had to be recoded and altered.
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 08:58
|
#21
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
I agree a new UI is needed, but a major recode requires significant resources and no one in the community seems particularly inclined to want to simply sit down and code what we want coded.
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 10:40
|
#22
|
Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I agree a new UI is needed, but a major recode requires significant resources and no one in the community seems particularly inclined to want to simply sit down and code what we want coded.
|
You're blaming the community?
__________________
Finally free!
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 13:18
|
#23
|
[Vision]
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 897
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I agree a new UI is needed, but a major recode requires significant resources and no one in the community seems particularly inclined to want to simply sit down and code what we want coded.
|
Seriously though, it might be hard to grasp, but have you ever considered there just might (i say might!) be ppl here that just can't be arsed spending time on creating/altering a product for free so that others can make money on it?
Personally i rather code my own PA and have it for free / fun, or make money from my own work, then spend my time to maybe increase the income for some non-caring organisation as Jolt. Not to even mention the fact i'd have to deal with the whole of PaTeam to work on the game and probably wouldn't agree (and thus enjoy) to 90% of the stuff i'd have to code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
deciding bp size etc yes is just tweaking - but to allow the current bp system loads of stuff had to be recoded and altered.
|
Just because some code needs to change doesn't mean its a whole new feature being implemented. If the feature exists, but the way it works changes, that is called tweaking. You're not gonna tell me you call all those gazillion microsoft updates are adding new features rather then just updates (update=tweak) of crappy/buggy ones.
__________________
[Vision] in a lost dream, contributing to The 5th Element at present
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 13:32
|
#24
|
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
A lot of true stuff.
|
QFT. Nothing to add, really.
__________________
Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 18:31
|
#25
|
The BOFH
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 463
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I agree a new UI is needed, but a major recode requires significant resources and no one in the community seems particularly inclined to want to simply sit down and code what we want coded.
|
Don't blame the community for what PA team hasn't done. It's up to you (as in PA team) to recruit people to do the jobs necessary to run Planetarion. If you are lacking staff to do a certain job then you need to get someone there to do it.
Isn't it the job of the Operations Department, which you are the head of, to manage the staff within Planetarion? Therefore it should be up to you to either find someone to do it, or to advertise a position in some way.
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 19:46
|
#26
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
Just because some code needs to change doesn't mean its a whole new feature being implemented. If the feature exists, but the way it works changes, that is called tweaking. You're not gonna tell me you call all those gazillion microsoft updates are adding new features rather then just updates (update=tweak) of crappy/buggy ones.
|
I think you still fail to understand just how different the current galaxy setup is from one around fixed galaxy size. It was a whole new way of doing things. It entirly changed the nature of the way the nuiverse is constructed and changed interactions. A tweak is a minor change to the way something works, not totally revemping a feature and all the support code that interacts with it to work in an entirly different way that was ever intended.
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 19:48
|
#27
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Don't blame the community for what PA team hasn't done. It's up to you (as in PA team) to recruit people to do the jobs necessary to run Planetarion. If you are lacking staff to do a certain job then you need to get someone there to do it.
Isn't it the job of the Operations Department, which you are the head of, to manage the staff within Planetarion? Therefore it should be up to you to either find someone to do it, or to advertise a position in some way.
|
I'm not blaming, I was merely stating a fact. Attempts have been made over the ages to get coders into the team, it was stated quite correctly that its quite reasonable that people don't want to code things for free when they could go off and code their own thing and have more fun. There isn't really a way to get around that barrier this year.
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 21:38
|
#28
|
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I think you still fail to understand just how different the current galaxy setup is from one around fixed galaxy size. It was a whole new way of doing things. It entirly changed the nature of the way the nuiverse is constructed and changed interactions. A tweak is a minor change to the way something works, not totally revemping a feature and all the support code that interacts with it to work in an entirly different way that was ever intended.
|
It still was just a tweak. It did not at all change the way galaxies worked - it just made the universe have a fixed amount of galaxies / clusters from after shuffle instead of having more galaxies / clusters as new people sign up. After all, we still do the same in our galaxies - except for exiling a bit more since that tweak.
As pointed out above - just because something requires a lot of coding it does not make it a new feature. This particular case is a good example for it.
__________________
Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 22:07
|
#29
|
Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
It still was just a tweak. It did not at all change the way galaxies worked - it just made the universe have a fixed amount of galaxies / clusters from after shuffle instead of having more galaxies / clusters as new people sign up. After all, we still do the same in our galaxies - except for exiling a bit more since that tweak.
As pointed out above - just because something requires a lot of coding it does not make it a new feature. This particular case is a good example for it.
|
I disgaree, I think it does fundamentally alter the way universe interactions occur becuase the makeup of the sorts of players in a galaxy is fundamentally different. There is also the concept of large holding galaxies prior to a shuffle, the concept of allways having a shuffle in every round as a fundamental part of the game - an end to the "will there or won't there be shuffle debate". Now it may be that this large feature change has been deminished by the fact that people still exile constantly, but everytime the "tweak" of removing exiling is suggested people get rather upset.
to qoute something from #alliances
Wandows it does it in an entirly different way that results in an enitrely different balence of players across a universe. If for example microsoft completely changed the way somethign worked in windows that entirly changed the experiance e.g. the new interface in windows vista people wouldn't call it a tweak
|
|
|
19 Nov 2006, 22:37
|
#30
|
CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
|
Re: Whats happening with PAN development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
I disgaree, I think it does fundamentally alter the way universe interactions occur becuase the makeup of the sorts of players in a galaxy is fundamentally different. There is also the concept of large holding galaxies prior to a shuffle, the concept of allways having a shuffle in every round as a fundamental part of the game - an end to the "will there or won't there be shuffle debate". Now it may be that this large feature change has been deminished by the fact that people still exile constantly, but everytime the "tweak" of removing exiling is suggested people get rather upset.
to qoute something from #alliances
Wandows it does it in an entirly different way that results in an enitrely different balence of players across a universe. If for example microsoft completely changed the way somethign worked in windows that entirly changed the experiance e.g. the new interface in windows vista people wouldn't call it a tweak
|
I was about to write a long story about this but I guess "we agree to disagree on this one" is the ultimate result anyway.
Just keep in mind that a feature usually heavily alters the gameplay experience, while tweaks just have a slight impact. And introducing buddypacks did not alter the gameplay much after we had seen random galaxies and private galaxies before.
In your defense, the marketing guys I know would probably have tried to sell what you did as a new feature, though. But then again marketing guys would try to sell the last piece of shit as gold. Maybe try to look at it from a players point of view instead of from a marketings point of view - after all, you can only sell what you have, no matter how bright and shiny you claim it to be. False claims do more harm than good, long-term.
__________________
Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:50.
| |