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Unread 26 Aug 2011, 13:53   #101
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
hmm.. could there be any merging stuff involved later in the round ?
we'll see somewhere around pt600 (pt650 at the latest)
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Unread 26 Aug 2011, 15:18   #102
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
This is correct.

I think however I would change the wording. You could make an argument for an alliance such as rock or ND to be a great alliance, for all they have done for the game.
And I wouldn't for one second suggest rock on their first round go all out war on someone to win. It could easily have broken there and then, they got a spanking and went their own ways and the game would be poorer for it.

I think I prefer wording 'a winning alliance' and by that I would define it as an alliance that wants to win the round, and appreciates they will either finish 1st of 8th, but 2nd place is not an option AND by politics and military might, puts itself in a position to win. I think this is what you refer to.

Very few alliances in planetarion can claim to be 'winning alliances' by the definition given (and I don't mean by winning a round every so often).

These would be (but not confined to):

Fury
Exilition
1up
Asc

None of those alliances would back out of a war in order to risk a position that wasn't #1.
Asc won 7 rounds
Apprime won 5 rounds

in my opinion, only those two alliances had, and still have, a long time influence on both politics and deciding who wins what.
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Unread 26 Aug 2011, 15:48   #103
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Re: Congrats ND

You're mistaking other alliances failing to provide a challenge and generally being shit as a good measure for the winning alliances' greatness.
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Unread 26 Aug 2011, 18:38   #104
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
Olata, you wanted something to read. Want a bet as to how quick someone replies to my thought out replies with 'you suck'.
My guess would be someone will have done it before you read this post and it is likely to be one of...

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your the one posting five posts in row on the same thread - you seem to be pretty entertained with yourself
so why would a p3n HC have to write anything
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Unread 26 Aug 2011, 19:06   #105
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Re: Congrats ND

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Asc won 7 rounds
Apprime won 5 rounds

in my opinion, only those two alliances had, and still have, a long time influence on both politics and deciding who wins what.
Individuals are more important than alliances when it comes to politics. Sometimes alliances just win because they are better rather than because they made great political moves. Really though, I'd focus on people when it comes to politics rather than the alliances they represent. For example someone like JBG would wield influence whichever alliance he was playing for.
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Unread 26 Aug 2011, 20:25   #106
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Individuals are more important than alliances when it comes to politics. Sometimes alliances just win because they are better rather than because they made great political moves. Really though, I'd focus on people when it comes to politics rather than the alliances they represent. For example someone like JBG would wield influence whichever alliance he was playing for.
Totally agree players like JBG are influential what evr alliance they play in active I would add JBG hasn't been truly active for quite some time or the alliances he been in would be stronger
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Unread 26 Aug 2011, 20:35   #107
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Individuals are more important than alliances when it comes to politics. Sometimes alliances just win because they are better rather than because they made great political moves. Really though, I'd focus on people when it comes to politics rather than the alliances they represent. For example someone like JBG would wield influence whichever alliance he was playing for.
I totally agree.

I would say that there is one thing that is more important then any individual or political moves though, which is belonging to a community. The alliance needs to be a source for friendship and humour. Every member needs to hope they get through the war with a decent chance to score a top10 planet. BECAUSE IF YOU DONT WAR UR FKING SHIT IMO. If they get out with an average planet, there is always next round. When an alliance becomes a community, and the players start putting ally over planet, they will dominate the game in one way or another, every round.
Of course there are players within the community who nurse upon this, and take the neccessary actions to reach the alliance goals, but people are not forced to play..

I feel Ascendancy and Apprime has these qualities, both having a history of kicking a large number of people who didnt put alliance over planet.

Whatever this dude Forest is talking about, it must be some other game.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 13:49   #108
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
You're confusing "got proved proved wrong" with "I said the opposite of what you said".
I'm not backed into a corner, i am simply stating opinions and discussing and waiting for replies. Your the one who seems to be sitting at his keyboard eagerly waiting the next response so you can put up some more CT propaganda or flame someone... the rest of us casually browse through the forums every 1-2 days or possibly even less often.

Yes you are right Ult are all Xan, i apologise for this error on my part, intial comments were on them being cr/bs like DLR and working them, i see this obviously didnt pan out...

But then in this scenerio a war between Ult and xVx seems even less likely... Xan vs Xan doesnt go well - anyone looking at the stats can see that. Ult maybe pure Xan but xVx are somewhere near 65-70% Xan with a larger memberbase so the amount of Xans is probably near equal.

Whereas.... rumours suggest CT is far more Cath based in its fi/co setup which would make them the better roiding target for both alliances no?? fakes and teamups will land easily on huggers....

This probably why CT roid count is a bit yo yo atm cos your a better target for fi/co players than these Xan heavy allainces. Heaven forbid if you have ETD fi players too... that is lands all day long for Xans....


Feel free to comment back.. i know you will... all responses and corrections welcome
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 14:05   #109
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
This probably why CT roid count is a bit yo yo atm cos your a better target for fi/co players than these Xan heavy allainces. Heaven forbid if you have ETD fi players too... that is lands all day long for Xans....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rankings
1 NewDawn 35900
2 Conspiracy 36699
3 xVx 33449
i wonder if you even took a look at the rankings... CT clearly has most roids there
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 14:09   #110
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Re: Congrats ND

yes infulence but it was also way down the other day and up 2 days before that - hence the term yoyo
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 14:11   #111
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Re: Congrats ND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
<quote of me>

<reply to Forest>
Just figured I'd clear that up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post
i wonder if you even took a look at the rankings... CT clearly has most roids there
Roids aren't everything.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 14:41   #112
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Re: Congrats ND

there also an 80 man allaince - they have 8 more players than those around them - thats only 8 more 370 roid planets - nothing special
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 18:24   #113
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Re: Congrats ND

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Asc won 7 rounds
Apprime won 5 rounds

in my opinion, only those two alliances had, and still have, a long time influence on both politics and deciding who wins what.
1up/Exil were a force in their day and had a proper influence on politics from start to finish in one way or another.
Didn't exil win like 5/10 and 1up 4/8, asc on the other hand won 7/23(though looking 'only' at pawiki, and it looks like they played 14).
App won 5?/11.

And 1up/exil played when there were many more players and many more alliances than there are now.

I fully believe asc would 100%, they are quality and were one of only alliances ever to beat 1up, the other being exil), but had they been about in r11-20, would App have managed to win 5/11 rounds, or would they have lost to the other many alliances?

Also, is this conjecture? I mean, I don't know exactly but weren't quite a few members of asc also 1up? And I would guess that a fair few exil went onto apprime?
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 18:32   #114
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Re: Congrats ND

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Individuals are more important than alliances when it comes to politics. Sometimes alliances just win because they are better rather than because they made great political moves. Really though, I'd focus on people when it comes to politics rather than the alliances they represent. For example someone like JBG would wield influence whichever alliance he was playing for.
I think it rather depends on the alliance.

I think with Asc (without a proper knowledge of them, so feel free to put me right) would have members influence the alliance a lot.

But then with 1up, Sid knew what he wanted and what could be achieved and he would do it. If members didn't like it, they could leave and would be promptly roided.
I think he would take into account the members but generally, would have members who would do what he wanted. It was always about doing what the command wanted. Fury were the same.

Legion were always planet/member orientated and never really seemed to have hc in full command, it was more that hc would react to what the members did, whereas with Fury/1up it was members having to react to what the hc wanted.

Players seem to stay on the same side.
Whether that was the good Fury/1up/asc/ct/nd side of pa or the Legion/exil/section/dragons/ldk/apprime/ultores side too.
of course there was/is some crossing over but as a general I don't think there was too much

Good to have you on the thread though, makes a difference to have some proper posters instead of trolls.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 18:38   #115
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Re: Congrats ND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
I'm not backed into a corner, i am simply stating opinions and discussing and waiting for replies. Your the one who seems to be sitting at his keyboard eagerly waiting the next response so you can put up some more CT propaganda or flame someone... the rest of us casually browse through the forums every 1-2 days or possibly even less often.

Yes you are right Ult are all Xan, i apologise for this error on my part, intial comments were on them being cr/bs like DLR and working them, i see this obviously didnt pan out...

But then in this scenerio a war between Ult and xVx seems even less likely... Xan vs Xan doesnt go well - anyone looking at the stats can see that. Ult maybe pure Xan but xVx are somewhere near 65-70% Xan with a larger memberbase so the amount of Xans is probably near equal.

Whereas.... rumours suggest CT is far more Cath based in its fi/co setup which would make them the better roiding target for both alliances no?? fakes and teamups will land easily on huggers....

This probably why CT roid count is a bit yo yo atm cos your a better target for fi/co players than these Xan heavy allainces. Heaven forbid if you have ETD fi players too... that is lands all day long for Xans....


Feel free to comment back.. i know you will... all responses and corrections welcome
I am hardly sitting by my comp wiating for replies, I just tend to reply to relevant posts.
Your post was so far wrong I had to put you right.
CT propoganda? You are aware that I am leaving pa for good and don't care either way who wins right?

Your arguments why Ult and xVx would be an uneven fight were wrong and I told you so. I also said it wouldn't happen.

Ult would take xvx apart because they could roid that 40% of xVx for free.
IF it was 1 v 1 and Ult had nothing to fight for except beat you, they would do so pretty easily. Xan v Xan would be nasty but its not undoable. I would trust Ult xan fleets a lot more than i would xVx xan fleets. I won't go into details but needless to say, Ult would be able to use app's a lot more skillflly that xVx.

edit: typo

Last edited by Forest; 27 Aug 2011 at 19:07.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 18:41   #116
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
yes infulence but it was also way down the other day and up 2 days before that - hence the term yoyo
DLR are the same.
And you will see more of it as the round goes on.

It is simply because CT are efficient roiders and so get fat very quickly.
This leads to mass incoming. Then we aren't so fat so we get less incoming. Then we roid hard and get fat again. Cycle repeats.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 18:58   #117
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
I totally agree.

I would say that there is one thing that is more important then any individual or political moves though, which is belonging to a community. The alliance needs to be a source for friendship and humour. .
Yup, that is what PA is about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Every member needs to hope they get through the war with a decent chance to score a top10 planet. BECAUSE IF YOU DONT WAR UR FKING SHIT IMO. If they get out with an average planet, there is always next round. When an alliance becomes a community, and the players start putting ally over planet, they will dominate the game in one way or another, every round.
Of course there are players within the community who nurse upon this, and take the neccessary actions to reach the alliance goals, but people are not forced to play..
I think you have two kind of alliances. I will use Legion/Fury as an example.

Legion were an alliance that tended to have players who were more planet orientated and would do what they could to protect their planet first and would do what they had to in gal/alliance to ensure they protected that planet.

Fury were more alliance orientated players, who worked better as a team in order to succeed.

They were both very successful alliances who along with RB (you know I had to get them in one of these posts) dominated the game so much to the extent the game got stale, at a time when there were many good quality alliances (remember the mighty and feared Concordium anyone?) compared to the few players/alliances today.

But they were successful because of the way they were led. Fury demanded alliance loyalty whereas Legion HC allowed their members to be more planet based.

One example would be Game (winner, r2 or 3?).
He threw his toys out of the pram and left Legion so myself and Sid arranged an attack on him. Game found out and rejoined Legion. His actions were solely with the intention of protecting his planet.
Had he been a fury member I don't believe he would have left in the first place because he would have known the reprecussions, but if he had, Sid wouldn't have cared if he was number one, he would have roided him silly just to show not only Fury members, but also everyone else in PA, what would happen if you cross Fury.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
I feel Ascendancy and Apprime has these qualities, both having a history of kicking a large number of people who didnt put alliance over planet.
1up on the other hand didn't need to kick large members because the right members were recruited to start with.
Those who didn't really have the same principles ended up moving on (elviz being a key one, didn't he leave to start asc with Rob?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Whatever this dude Forest is talking about, it must be some other game.
Yeah I don't know what I am talking about, what with being at the sharp end of politics and involved with top alliances that stand a chance of winning, every round I played in since round 1.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 19:54   #118
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Re: Congrats ND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
One example would be Game (winner, r2 or 3?).
Game won R3, I believe his planet name was "Roman Fortress" and he had quite the lead. There was also a lemming run on him led by hirr but not 100% sure. I still might have the news scan kicking about somewhere.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 22:07   #119
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post

Yeah I don't know what I am talking about, what with being at the sharp end of politics and involved with top alliances that stand a chance of winning, every round I played in since round 1.
ok?

I kicked mike tysons ass every time i tried since 1998.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 22:10   #120
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Re: Congrats ND

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I think it rather depends on the alliance.

I think with Asc (without a proper knowledge of them, so feel free to put me right) would have members influence the alliance a lot.

But then with 1up, Sid knew what he wanted and what could be achieved and he would do it. If members didn't like it, they could leave and would be promptly roided.
I think he would take into account the members but generally, would have members who would do what he wanted. It was always about doing what the command wanted. Fury were the same.

Legion were always planet/member orientated and never really seemed to have hc in full command, it was more that hc would react to what the members did, whereas with Fury/1up it was members having to react to what the hc wanted.

Players seem to stay on the same side.

Whether that was the good Fury/1up/asc/ct/nd side of pa or the Legion/exil/section/dragons/ldk/apprime/ultores side too.
of course there was/is some crossing over but as a general I don't think there was too much
While an interesting theory, this is so inaccurate and so grossly over simplified and generalised and that you couldn't be farther from the truth. Not to mention that at first you contrast Asc with Fury and then later lump them in the same category without a second thought.

At times Asc could be compared to how you describe Legion, but for different reason: there simply is no alliance will/collective to shape its opinion around how the players play, it really is a collection of players of varying independance. And yet in other rounds Asc could be compared to how you describe the Fury/1up dictatorship, but this is only in outside appearance and in reality is more like a polygamous cyclic leadership. Enough about Asc though; Asc's running is so different to other alliances it isn't really possible to make these comparisons, I'd hazard.

(Note that I have no knowledge of Legion's working so I shall avoid the question of whether Forest provides an accurate description, instead commenting on the description itself as a point of comparison.)

eXi, as another example. I would contest that they were in fact closer to your Fury/1up description, except with the dictatorship control being multifaceted: the alliance was controlled by equally strong will that was decided upon by consensus committee of the HC / BG leaders.

App, in its prime (), similarly should be compared more closely to Fury/1up given the iron fist with which carDi ruled. Recetly of course the alliance is just a shell of its former self, full of morons and trolls that think they've joined the big league.

CT and ND on the other hand maintain much less control over their alliances, and can be quite easily described as a collection of people playing not for alliance win but for their own planets. Not the rank whores of yore, this is something similar but less competitive. And at the same time these players feel a much closer affiliation to their alliances than I would imagine you would say of those in Legion. I'd guess that these alliances experience a much less pro-active loyalty to their collective and perhaps instead have a nearly apathetic loyalty to their leadership, wherein communication and behavioural modelling is much more two-way than in either of your Fury or Legion categories. The leadership is aware of and acts on behalf of the collective, not reacting to and certainly not dictating its will on the players.

A lot of the new alliances, the one round wonders as they might be described pre-round, might be well compared to your description of Legion. Often the struggle or rush to recruit in members results in a lot of extra players being taken on who have less loyalty to the leadership. These players might still think themselves as loyal to their collective, but by being disloyal (or at least not sufficiently committal) to their leadership, they are naively shooting their collective in the proverbial foot. Or in some cases I wouldn't be surprised to hear it wasn't naivety at all.

Still, an interesting theory. One worthy of further discussion I hope.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 22:13   #121
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Re: Congrats ND

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Those who didn't really have the same principles ended up moving on (elviz being a key one, didn't he leave to start asc with Rob?).
Jester, not elviz. elviz played 1? round with Asc, much later on in its existence.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 22:19   #122
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Re: Congrats ND

A few rounds, I think. The pawiki says he founded Apprime with Cardi, though, which I had forgotten.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 22:23   #123
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Re: Congrats ND

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ok?

I kicked mike tysons ass every time i tried since 1998.
Then you clearly don't know me, I don't think anyone who does would disagree.

However, I am not going to play the 'whose got the biggest penis game' with you.
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 22:27   #124
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Re: Congrats ND

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Jester, not elviz. elviz played 1? round with Asc, much later on in its existence.
ok I stand corrected, it is quite hard remembering after being out of the game for so long
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Unread 27 Aug 2011, 23:30   #125
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Re: Congrats ND

Nice post, I will try and reply.

Please note, I played up to, I dunno, r20 or something I think and only came back last round for half a round as a break from real life so I am only going on the views that I have from irc/forums.
Also, as you can imagine, things always have two sides and I see it from what I personally term 'the good side'.

I would hate for you to think I put little thought into my post though. Some may be wrong, we shall see, but I am quite a thoughtful poster who is talking from experience of being there in the thick of it for a long time.

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While an interesting theory, this is so inaccurate and so grossly over simplified and generalised and that you couldn't be farther from the truth. Not to mention that at first you contrast Asc with Fury and then later lump them in the same category without a second thought.
Of course its simplified. I don't do things any other way
I did say I didn't have much knowledge of asc and would stand corrected.

With regards to asc being compared to fury, whilst contrasting them, let me explain a bit better.

Fury and 1up, to some extent, were a dictatorship. Sid and the HC made the decisions, as a very good command team and what was decided goes. It was always Sid who had the final word to members and in public, though I am sure behind the scenes it wasn't quite like that.
I can remember 1up at one point being accused of taking over the forums.
We did indeed have a high proportion of posters and would jump on every thread, take it over and use propaganda etc. However, as soon as Sid demanded we didn't post on certain threads or about certain issues, not a single member did. His word ruled.

I guess I should explain how I see the connection. Fury as above was run as a dictatorship.
1up was the same.
However, Fury had a lot more members and so the average standard was probably lower. Then came 1up, again on the good side. This consisted of some brilliant players and the best group of players I have ever played with. Nearly all of them had been top planets, top galaxies, run alliances or battle groups and the standard was very very high. This alliance run any other way could have failed, but a very strong hc team held everyone together and we would run through walls together. To be able to keep 60(?) planets out of tag until 2 weeks left of the round, without anyone getting a real grip on what happened is quite a hard things to happen and shows the level of skill and trust we had in each other.

Anyway, I went off-topic slightly.
Then came Asc (I believe had a fair few people from 1up as well as some other top players). Although they had come from the dictatorship of Sid, they were able to be more planet orientated (or so it appeared from the outside, if an asc says different I am in no position to prove otherwise as never have been in asc).

Maybe I could make a tenuous link of a high proportion of asc players as like the sas, in that they could play well in a team but equally well as an individual. Hope that makes sense, it does in my head.

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At times Asc could be compared to how you describe Legion, but for different reason: there simply is no alliance will/collective to shape its opinion around how the players play, it really is a collection of players of varying independance. And yet in other rounds Asc could be compared to how you describe the Fury/1up dictatorship, but this is only in outside appearance and in reality is more like a
polygamous cyclic leadership. Enough about Asc though; Asc's running is so different to other alliances it isn't really possible to make these comparisons, I'd hazard.

(Note that I have no knowledge of Legion's working so I shall avoid the question of whether Forest provides an accurate description, instead commenting on the description itself as a point of comparison.)
I think with regards to legion, most would agree, even legion hc, that they were more a collection of individuals that played for themselves rather than the alliance.

I also think I agree with you when you say asc were at times like 1up and at times like Legion. Due to the point I made above, I can totally see how that would happen, a group of players who can play individually or as a team is indeed a rare commodity.

Asc is probably the one alliance I wanted to join but never applied. I think because, in private, I am actually a well respected guy on the whole, my pride would never have been able to accept it if I applied and got refused and because I am quite vocal on the forums there was always a chance of that and I wasn't willing to that on the line. I reckon I would have been good in there though

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eXi, as another example. I would contest that they were in fact closer to your Fury/1up description, except with the dictatorship control being multifaceted: the alliance was controlled by equally strong will that was decided upon by consensus committee of the HC / BG leaders.
Interesting point. Exil is one of the very few alliances I would refuse to join, mainly because of who they are and what a few of them stand for (but lets not go there, my thoughts on Section etc are well documented).
This again means I can't talk from a point of experience.

This might be a difficult point to contest and open a can of words, because from my view members were not controlled by hc at all, otherwise they wouldnt have such a high level of cheating. I am assuming by that statement though that HC didn't know what was going on, or at the very least knew but were unwilling to deal with it.

It may be best just to side step that though

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App, in its prime (), similarly should be compared more closely to Fury/1up given the iron fist with which carDi ruled. Recetly of course the alliance is just a shell of its former self, full of morons and trolls that think they've joined the big league.
I think the second statement says it all, I played only half way through last round. It appears completely disorganised, members doing what they want and kicking etc going on, as well as fake nicking etc on irc.
This is all I see of App. Maybe it is sad then that they are still going and should have moved on long ago.

I should point out, app are a difficult one for me.
I think they could be brilliant for the game. Last round was kept interesting because of politics and app certainly had a hand in that (I can't remember refreshing sandmans over and over again in the final week like I did with KIA).

They should be praised in the game. However, because of the whole 'we will let you win if you nap us or kill you' attitude they have, they aren't well liked.
I think that is a shame.


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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
CT and ND on the other hand maintain much less control over their alliances, and can be quite easily described as a collection of people playing not for alliance win but for their own planets. Not the rank whores of yore, this is something similar but less competitive. And at the same time these players feel a much closer affiliation to their alliances than I would imagine you would say of those in Legion. I'd guess that these alliances experience a much less pro-active loyalty to their collective and perhaps instead have a nearly apathetic loyalty to their leadership, wherein communication and behavioural modelling is much more two-way than in either of your Fury or Legion categories. The leadership is aware of and acts on behalf of the collective, not reacting to and certainly not dictating its will on the players.
Just to clarify, I was lumping in ct/nd with the 'good side' rather than the dictatorship of fury and 1up.
I do however think you have it pretty spot on.

I don't think gm would be too annoyed with me to reveal that I have at times last round and this got very frustrated with some members who don't show the same level of dedication that I was used to in my previous alliances (I guess we all grew up and have different priorities in life now) and that at times I have pissed people off with my insistance that they need to fight harder and longer.
I have told gm on MANY an occasion he needs to be more like a dictatorship, telling people what to do and kick/roiding them if they refuse. CT just isn't in that same bracket though.

I guess I would put CT/ND in a different bracket with the likes of TGV etc in that they aren't super powers, they want to win but are more relaxed about things in how they will get there.

It takes a very special person to make a dictatorship work and also for a more planet-orientated alliance to work. It is these alliances that go on to be super-powers.
I would class the other alliances more as recreational alliances that absolute hard core winning alliances.

That said, and though I have been frustrated at times, I have loved my time in CT and have been truly touched at how many people, from both inside of CT and out, have wished me good luck in the future (I leave PA tomorrow for ever). I hope I have proved to players who I would always have been on opposite sides of the war, that I am a good player and a good MO who knows the game, the politics and the strategy to do what it takes to win.
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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
A lot of the new alliances, the one round wonders as they might be described pre-round, might be well compared to your description of Legion. Often the struggle or rush to recruit in members results in a lot of extra players being taken on who have less loyalty to the leadership. These players might still think themselves as loyal to their collective, but by being disloyal (or at least not sufficiently committal) to their leadership, they are naively shooting their collective in the proverbial foot. Or in some cases I wouldn't be surprised to hear it wasn't naivety at all.
I usually view one round wonders as having poor leadership, as a strong leadership would take in the players that would subscribe to its ethos and pull them together in a team. Rushing to mass recruit is poor leadership imo.

I think loyalty at the start tends to come in the form of loyalty to the leader/hc.
1up members for instance had total respect and trust in Sid/Mazz/Tiz/Zhil/anyone else I missed, rather than 1up. We joined because of them, not because of 1up. They forged a team that worked well together and from there became loyal to 1up.

People need a true reason to become truly loyal to someone or something. 1up had that respect and we not only would we run through walls for them, we would offer our sisters and wives if hc deemed a hc orgy was neccessary for a successful round.

Quote:
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Still, an interesting theory. One worthy of further discussion I hope.
I hope it does. Shame I won't be around after tomorrow to follow it up.

I also hope you see my points as valid, even if you disgree with them.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 11:06   #126
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Re: Congrats ND

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I think the second statement says it all, I played only half way through last round. It appears completely disorganised, members doing what they want and kicking etc going on, as well as fake nicking etc on irc.
This is all I see of App. Maybe it is sad then that they are still going and should have moved on long ago.

I should point out, app are a difficult one for me.
I think they could be brilliant for the game. Last round was kept interesting because of politics and app certainly had a hand in that (I can't remember refreshing sandmans over and over again in the final week like I did with KIA).

They should be praised in the game. However, because of the whole 'we will let you win if you nap us or kill you' attitude they have, they aren't well liked.
I think that is a shame.



What you and ellonweb seems to not understand, is that Apprime always plays with the same attitude. We dont need to prove anything.
we limp along and do whatever seems fun to do in the momemt.
Seeing the current memberlist, it is full of people who have achieved a lot, put a lot of effort into the game in previous rounds, and currently just try to get some fun out of this dead game.

This has been the case for many rounds, and the fact Apprime has managed to win rounds after its prime in round35, says it all. We can if we want to, so why be such tryhards when trollhard is easier and more fun?

We only kick out people who repeatedly crash their fleet on sworn enemies, repeatedly put their planet over alliance, or are so ****ing prudent that they cant take the piss on IRC.

Trying to compare Apprime to anything that has ever played this game is simply hilarious. People who play there are not "joining the big league", they play there because its an interesting community to be a part of.

There might be stronger alliances in politics and military, but you can never beat an alliance that has nothing to prove. Not even on trollforums.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 11:20   #127
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Re: Congrats ND

Sometimes I wonder if you ever stop jerking off.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 12:49   #128
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
What you and ellonweb seems to not understand, is that Apprime always plays with the same attitude. We dont need to prove anything.
we limp along and do whatever seems fun to do in the momemt.
Seeing the current memberlist, it is full of people who have achieved a lot, put a lot of effort into the game in previous rounds, and currently just try to get some fun out of this dead game.

This has been the case for many rounds, and the fact Apprime has managed to win rounds after its prime in round35, says it all. We can if we want to, so why be such tryhards when trollhard is easier and more fun?

We only kick out people who repeatedly crash their fleet on sworn enemies, repeatedly put their planet over alliance, or are so ****ing prudent that they cant take the piss on IRC.

Trying to compare Apprime to anything that has ever played this game is simply hilarious. People who play there are not "joining the big league", they play there because its an interesting community to be a part of.

There might be stronger alliances in politics and military, but you can never beat an alliance that has nothing to prove. Not even on trollforums.
All good points.

Look at it from others points of view though.

Your whole 'you only won cause we made it so' attitude detracts from what others have done.

It may be immensely fun for you, but it annoys others and spoils the game..

Surely that is not something you want to be doing?

'We do what we want and we don't care if it spoils it for others' is sooo round two.

I think it just shows a lack of class.

p.s.
I suggest we just ignore Mzyxptlk. This has turned into an interesting thread with proper discussion, something that has been missing from the forums and he and some others are just trying to derail it
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 14:01   #129
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Re: Congrats ND

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All good points.

I suggest we just ignore Mzyxptlk. This has turned into an interesting thread with proper discussion, something that has been missing from the forums and he and some others are just trying to derail it
No it's not, it's all bullshit. Hanzi is just attempting to copy and regurgitate what Asc would say and it's laughable. Hence mz's post, which you would do wise to accept as the correct response to Hanzi.

(Re your other post, the history lessons aren't really necessary, nor is your emo fretting drabble over your supposed impending permanent exit from PA. (I'm sure you felt similarly permanent the first time you quit.) That aside, the rest of the post was interesting.)
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 14:40   #130
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Re: Congrats ND

You know the current round of PA is shitty and boring when everyone just continues to talk about the past rounds in last round's threads
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 15:01   #131
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Re: Congrats ND

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You know the current round of PA is shitty and boring when everyone just continues to talk about the past rounds in last round's threads
This always happens, though.



Oh.



Oh, I see.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 15:07   #132
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Re: Congrats ND

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nor is your emo fretting drabble over your supposed impending permanent exit from PA. (I'm sure you felt similarly permanent the first time you quit.)
I came back to pa for half a round as I nearly died and it was doing my head in being stuck indoors for six weeks and needed a 'break from real life'.

I can assure you with my family etc, there is no way I will be coming back to pa ever

Thats all.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 15:11   #133
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Re: Congrats ND

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I came back to pa for half a round as I nearly died and it was doing my head in being stuck indoors for six weeks and needed a 'break from real life'.

I can assure you with my family etc, there is no way I will be coming back to pa ever

Thats all.
Yes, yes, you've said it many times. You didn't need to write it again, which was my exact point.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 15:21   #134
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Re: Congrats ND

well you made out I would be bacl, just pointing out I won't.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 16:03   #135
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Re: Congrats ND

Was that his final post?
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 17:07   #136
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
No it's not, it's all bullshit. Hanzi is just attempting to copy and regurgitate what Asc would say and it's laughable. Hence mz's post, which you would do wise to accept as the correct response to Hanzi.

(Re your other post, the history lessons aren't really necessary, nor is your emo fretting drabble over your supposed impending permanent exit from PA. (I'm sure you felt similarly permanent the first time you quit.) That aside, the rest of the post was interesting.)
You cant regurgitate something someone WOULD say, you can however regurgitate something that someone HAVE said.

Quote:
App, in its prime (), similarly should be compared more closely to Fury/1up given the iron fist with which carDi ruled. Recetly of course the alliance is just a shell of its former self, full of morons and trolls that think they've joined the big league.
Anyways, i read my post over again and you can misunderstand it if you choose to, but you can also accept it for what it is. We are a shell of its former self, and noone denies it, but we are not full of morons and trolls that think they've joined the big league. They are normal people, with jobs and a life. Sometimes we do something special to make the game more enjoyable, like launching on someone with a big mouth, or play kingmakers.

We dont need to prove anything, so we can do those things. Its cocky but it works. People need to understand that if they shit on us, we do our best to troll them back. Even if we had 10 members, we would suicide our planets if it meant ruining someones chances of winning planet. Now thats just how we play, deal with it.
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Unread 28 Aug 2011, 22:06   #137
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Re: Congrats ND

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
I think it rather depends on the alliance.

I think with Asc (without a proper knowledge of them, so feel free to put me right) would have members influence the alliance a lot.
The point of ascendancy is that if you put in effort into a particular area, you could contribute. We were pretty open in our discussions about everything until later on, when some individuals seemed to get in when really they just wanted a flag of convenience (Jesterocracy fixed this).

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But then with 1up, Sid knew what he wanted and what could be achieved and he would do it. If members didn't like it, they could leave and would be promptly roided.
I think he would take into account the members but generally, would have members who would do what he wanted. It was always about doing what the command wanted. Fury were the same.
If you were a Fury member would you doubt Sid? I mean really? I don't think he needed to care that much beyond considering the welfare of their planets and morale.

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Legion were always planet/member orientated and never really seemed to have hc in full command, it was more that hc would react to what the members did, whereas with Fury/1up it was members having to react to what the hc wanted.
Given that Legion shifted from the Fury to the Xanadu sphere based on the personnel making up their HC team, I find this to be doubtful. You could say politics would lead to infighting but from my experience the HC of Legion were never stooges of the membership and very much people who were in charge.

Quote:
Players seem to stay on the same side.
Whether that was the good Fury/1up/asc/ct/nd side of pa or the Legion/exil/section/dragons/ldk/apprime/ultores side too.
of course there was/is some crossing over but as a general I don't think there was too much

Good to have you on the thread though, makes a difference to have some proper posters instead of trolls.
I think this is too much of a sweeping generalisation to take at face value, although a lot of people stick around with their friends.

For example, you have players who only stick with an alliance because it's winning as their own planet score is their only concern. Or you have people who strike out in different alliances and need to make new ties to get along in the game.

The sentiment is appreciated. I'm still moderating here, so I like to post from time to time.
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