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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 04:59   #1
Monroe
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Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

So before the round I stated in several threads that public/private galaxies were a bad idea. Many disagreed, but I think now many people have seen how publics tend to dominate by the end of the round. What people may not realize is that the public/private system is highly abusable, and I put together a plan at the beginning of the round to do so, but I have held off posting it for fear that someone would use it. But now that the round is mostly over here is the plan I purposed to the CT HC:

"I had this idea before the round, but it wasn't worth considering until we knew the number of public galaxies in the uni, which is 28. First a little background. The number of public galaxies is fixed at 28. This means as new players join the uni or people exile out of private galaxies rather then new public galaxies being spawned, the size of the existing galaxies increases. Public galaxies started with 12 or 13 planets, now 3 days into the round they have 16, twice the size of private galaxies.

Right now public galaxies are by in large newbie galaxies. With a few exceptions they are fairly unorganized, however right now we have 5 of them where CT members are the GC. This means that if we could control these 5 galaxies and start exiling out of them we could exile the entire ally into these 5 galaxies. Coupled with our newbie friends in these galaxies we could easily have the biggest galaxies in the uni making us damn hard to hit.

Right now if the entire ally exiled out of private galaxies (45 members) it would take on average 5 exile tries to get into one of our 5 galaxies. With roughly 60 CT members that would mean 10 CTers and 10 non CTers per galaxy RIGHT NOW. As the rounds progress this number will only go up, especially if we invite our friends in our BPs to join us. Because of the size of public galaxies and the general activity level of CT it would almost guarantee us t50 galaxy status for all 6 galaxies, maybe even t10 (assuming no one else tries our stunt).

This plan would work on the following assumptions:
1. The 5 gals where our members are the GCs (REMOVED) actually have control of the galaxy and could exile planets as needed.
2. We pick up at least one more gal where we already have members and take over. We would want at least 6 gals to spread ourselves out in.
3. No other ally does this first
4. The member base is willing to leave their private galaxies
5. The member base is active enough to do this in a coordinated manor (roughly all at once)
6. We are able to keep this secret long enough to execute it (no more then a couple of days)"

For reasons that are not mine to divulge the CT HC team decided not to implement this plan, even though it had a high probability of success, it also had a very high probability of ruining the round. If every major ally followed this plan the entire uni would have been crammed into 28 galaxies... now wouldn't that have been fun.... None the less I wasn't the only person to figure this out, and several "fortress" public galaxies have appeared (just look at the t10).

Some of you may decide to say "well hey this is just because the system of public/privates wasn't balanced, if it was more balanced this wouldn't be possible." My big problem with this is I don't believe that it can be balanced in such a way to make it inherently fair, the player base will always attempt to follow the optimal path, whatever it is. So it is better to make all galaxies equal then to try and balance two different systems.

So what should we do? Either go back to buddy packs, which while clearly not perfect at least put everyone on the same footing. Or go to a pure random setup but lower the self exile cost and allow those that wish to, to pay the price of exiling around for a while to end up in a decent galaxy. Anyway in order to limit the length of this post and to not weary the eyes of my readers too much I will end here. Flame away!
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 06:07   #2
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

I would laught at the fortress galaxy thou my ass off.. it would have to rely on ingal defence only.. as we would be able to hit like what 1/2 of enemy players same time. But if someone builds a private fence galaxy like that, I would applaud them... especially if it had 1-2 cov oppers in it.. would be the strongest galaxy what I have ever seen in pa in comparison to player amount.

I though the fortress galaxy fails where already proven this round.. someone still going for it? I can understand with 1 cov opper and 7 players style.. but hell would still spread out the load in the 7.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 06:57   #3
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

I must say, I'm a little disappointed. Is there anyone out there who didn't think it was still possible?

In my opinion, the public/private setup is based for the most part on a kind of implicit understanding between a couple of alliances and PA Team: if you want to fortress, go with a private galaxy. Yes, if we really wanted to we could easily set up a fortress in a random galaxy, but it would only result in the system getting changed next round, which wouldn't really help anyone.

In any case, as always, fortress galaxies are still overrated. People who think we go with them because they're strong really need their head checked out. We play in fortress galaxies because it's fun, and because being able to rely on your gal mates is a Good Thing. Not because it's some magic formula that guarantees a win.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 13:32   #4
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I must say, I'm a little disappointed. Is there anyone out there who didn't think it was still possible?
Nope, I was sure it would not work. Because PA changed certain aspects of the game that were needed for private galaxies. Let me explain.

In the past when private galaxies were there, people could defend whom they wanted. They joined cluster alliances, asked friends to help anything ontop of their own alliance if they were in any.

Nowerdays, pa added caps on all kind of shit. They added caps on whom you are able to defend and whom is able to defend your roids.

Also, the reduced playerbase - with mainly ego players (no offense) compared to earlier rounds - is not helping. People rather play for their own planet, and if they fail they just start to idle or donate their planet's fleets to some Zik friends.

Politics, well I don't want to get into that - but I know you know that one yourself too.

So based on this, yeah - it wont work. Not even if you go as fortress galaxy. As there's to many people that love to play dirty. So you will get a few nights of all alliances over your galaxy to show how small you really are by doing that.

Think I've said enough now, as I hate posting on PA forums. But this was a thread that I liked so had to reply.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 13:48   #5
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

They aren't actually fortress galaxies. I just gave you the intro to the plan, not the plan details itself. The idea is to have about half the gal as a fortress gal, the rest as players in other allies. So it becomes a fenced galaxy with a single ally as it's base. This idea beats the heck out of an 8 player galaxy, whether fortressed or not. 24 active players beats 8 active players any day... just look at the galaxy rankings right now. The top ten contains mostly public galaxies, at least several of them are fortressed (I don't have intel on all of them). The ones that are fortressed followed the outline in the plan details not included in my first post on in this thread, including the top gal.

Because as AndroX notes you can only defend your ally mates and gal mates, having a strong mix of ally mates and random active players in your galaxy is the best strategy, when the following conditions are met:
1. There are few public galaxies relative to the number of private
2. The stats make the best defense ships only available in galaxy (for example BS that target CO)
3. Exiling out of private galaxies is possible
4. Defense is limited to allies and galaxies
Ironically if the PA team made no changes to the system for next round, and we went with public/privates again, if there are a lot of publics relative to the number of private galaxies then private galaxies are way stronger. So basically the system as it stands is a paradox and will always be unbalanced one way or the other. The galaxy seeding system should be fair to all, is not currently, and therefore should be abandoned, this is the bottom line in my thinking.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 14:15   #6
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

so if one alliance, lets use Asc for example, should be going fully random. They end up in those so called random galaxies. Where they can mass recruit in those galaxies - out of tag/support planets if needed - because out of tag planets, none alliance planets, can defend others iirc - you are saying that private mixed gals are stronger?

This is just one example on how to turn your idea around. Im not saying it is a bad idea, there's just so many holes in planetarion and it's current setup that any change on private, random or mixed galaxy setup does not work. This is because PA adds crap to the game every round and does not have a layed out plan about where to start from and where to go to. They add things on the fly, important things by that because players request it. And then 2 rounds later that player quit the game and the rest of pa is stuck with those addons for many many many rounds.

I love the fact you are coming up with idea's, please do not get me wrong. But plan for long term. And make sure the plan is bullet proof.
Give it a few more thoughts, as imo you are on the right path to solve an issue PA is having right now.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 14:29   #7
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

I think that this is worth pointing out that this is more a flaw of this round; it's unlikely there will be so few random galaxies in future, which would make it much harder to "take them over", and lessen the general effect. It'd also be a quite a time consuming process to get 10 people in a galaxy, and expensive (the constant and ever-increasing exile costs, etc).
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 14:45   #8
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
I think that this is worth pointing out that this is more a flaw of this round; it's unlikely there will be so few random galaxies in future, which would make it much harder to "take them over", and lessen the general effect. It'd also be a quite a time consuming process to get 10 people in a galaxy, and expensive (the constant and ever-increasing exile costs, etc).
What does this mean, appoco? that you are putting limits on how many planets can be in a random galaxy? so that there will be more random galaxies but will lower planet amounts or do you think that more people will sign up and go random instead of private?
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 15:07   #9
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

The suggestion that the public galaxies in the top 10 are "fortresses" or hard to hit or anywhere near competitive is a horrible misconception.

Let's look at 8.9 for example, a galaxy which has been a mainstay in the top 2. Not a single planet in the t100. Of the 25 planets, only 2 make the t200. That's pretty poor. Check out their roid graph on Sandmans, lots and lots of dips. Fact of the matter is, these high ranking public galaxies are getting roided fairly regularly and fairly easily by whatever alliance feels like an a-political gal raid. The galaxy is just made up of a lot of small planets.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 15:14   #10
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Originally Posted by AndroX View Post
What does this mean, appoco? that you are putting limits on how many planets can be in a random galaxy? so that there will be more random galaxies but will lower planet amounts or do you think that more people will sign up and go random instead of private?
I mean that I'd anticipate fewer private galaxies next round. this means that there'd be more public galaxies, so it'd be harder to get control of galaxies, etc.

ellon makes an interesting point
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 15:40   #11
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Originally Posted by AndroX View Post
Nope, I was sure it would not work. Because PA changed certain aspects of the game that were needed for private galaxies. Let me explain.

In the past when private galaxies were there, people could defend whom they wanted. They joined cluster alliances, asked friends to help anything ontop of their own alliance if they were in any.

Nowerdays, pa added caps on all kind of shit. They added caps on whom you are able to defend and whom is able to defend your roids.

Also, the reduced playerbase - with mainly ego players (no offense) compared to earlier rounds - is not helping. People rather play for their own planet, and if they fail they just start to idle or donate their planet's fleets to some Zik friends.

Politics, well I don't want to get into that - but I know you know that one yourself too.

So based on this, yeah - it wont work. Not even if you go as fortress galaxy. As there's to many people that love to play dirty. So you will get a few nights of all alliances over your galaxy to show how small you really are by doing that.

Think I've said enough now, as I hate posting on PA forums. But this was a thread that I liked so had to reply.
I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make here. .
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 16:03   #12
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

Me personally seing as the gamecommunity is so small think that buddypacks and private gals should be removed totally as a gameconcept and that total random would be much better. That way it would be entirely equal for everyone how the galaxy setup will work.

The downside to this is ofc, that alot of the people who are quitters will quit if their gal suck, but I am pretty sure that the amount of quitters every round would not increase dramatically.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 16:21   #13
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
They aren't actually fortress galaxies. I just gave you the intro to the plan, not the plan details itself. The idea is to have about half the gal as a fortress gal, the rest as players in other allies. So it becomes a fenced galaxy with a single ally as it's base.
You mean like a galaxy with a buddy pack and 2 late sign ups? Sorry, I still don't see how it's particularly revolutionary, nor particularly strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
24 active players beats 8 active players any day... just look at the galaxy rankings right now. The top ten contains mostly public galaxies
While I agree with this, it has very little to do with the strategy you outlined.

Before round start I expected that most skilled players would play in private galaxies, and most newbies in random galaxies. In a setup like that, having public galaxies that are bigger (but not by more than a factor of 2) is a requirement to make sure they don't get utterly overrun.

Unfortunately, it turned out that there were many newbies who started private galaxies in the hopelessly mistaken belief that fortressing is a strategy that can be pulled off by just anyone. These galaxies found themselves overwhelmed and consequently disbanded. Additionally, at around the same time, random galaxies got a late sign up (for reasons unknown to me) as well as the usual influx of players between tick 1 and 500. As this change in universe composition occured, the balance shifted in favour of random galaxies.

As ellonweb correctly pointed out, it's not because random galaxies are particularly strong, but because they're disproportionally large in comparison with private galaxies. I would still argue that it is actually way harder to roid a highly ranked private galaxy like 8:3 than a highly ranked random galaxy like 8:9. There is, after all, a reason why we spent so much effort setting up the hit on 8:3 while we'd roid 8:9 on a sunday afternoon.

On a sidenote, I feel that the politics of this round played a significant part in allowing these galaxies to survive as well as they did. Vision, as much credit as they deserve for their play this round, can hardly be called a dominating military machine, which is why they haven't killed off these galaxies. In a round in which one alliance achieved domination earlier, random galaxies would not have performed nearly as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
, at least several of them are fortressed (I don't have intel on all of them). The ones that are fortressed followed the outline in the plan details not included in my first post on in this thread, including the top gal.
To the best of my knowledge, CT is the alliance with the most planets in there, and they only have 4. That wouldn't even be a full buddypack, let alone qualify as a fortress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Because as AndroX notes you can only defend your ally mates and gal mates, having a strong mix of ally mates and random active players in your galaxy is the best strategy, when the following conditions are met:
1. There are few public galaxies relative to the number of private
2. The stats make the best defense ships only available in galaxy (for example BS that target CO)
3. Exiling out of private galaxies is possible
4. Defense is limited to allies and galaxies
Ironically if the PA team made no changes to the system for next round, and we went with public/privates again, if there are a lot of publics relative to the number of private galaxies then private galaxies are way stronger. So basically the system as it stands is a paradox and will always be unbalanced one way or the other. The galaxy seeding system should be fair to all, is not currently, and therefore should be abandoned, this is the bottom line in my thinking.
I think you're overrating how "fair" the previous system was. There will always be some people who are lucky and some who are not. Whichever shuffle mechanism you use, as long as it contains random elements, that will always be the same.

Ultimately, whether you fortress or fence, how well you perform during the round almost entirely comes down to just being good at defending. The people who successfully fortress could just as easily do well in a fence galaxy, and vice versa. The difference here is not the strategies, it's the fact that some people are just better at the game and more dedicated to it.


As for the fate of the random/private setup, I would be in favour of trying it one more round. I think a lot of people learned a harsh lesson about private galaxies this round and I agree that we'll see more random and fewer private galaxies next round. That would also solve the problem of the strategy you described, according to you, so even if it is a strong strategy (which I still don't believe it is), it would not be feasible next round, anyway. The problem solves itself.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 16:39   #14
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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If we're keeping private galaxys, i'd much rather a system of forcing alliances to take both private and random players. For example, if the alliance limit is 100, then an alliance would only be allowed to have 60 members in a private galaxy and 40 in a random galaxy. This would mean, that if you wanted to go over 60 members, you'd have to ask players to go random (which in turn, would make random galaxys stronger). It also means that if you want to recruit more players, you've got to recruit them from the random pool. Also, if you used those numbers, 70-80 planets would contribute towards the alliance score, making sure that those alliances with random players in as well as private would get a score advantage from doing so (advantage over alliances which just went full 60 private galaxy members).

That system would also have a nice knock-on effect, that a random player which is doing semi-well.. would be highly valuable to any alliance (if they was looking for an alliance).
^^ was my suggestion ages ago.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 16:57   #15
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

I think that Light's suggestion puts to much work into alliances.

With the lack of people willing to dedicate their time to do stuff for the alliances increasing, adding more workload for them would just make the game suck even more for the fair few who offer to do stuff.

A total random round would probably be way better, as you would be exposed to a fair few new people hopefully.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 17:14   #16
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
I think that Light's suggestion puts to much work into alliances.

With the lack of people willing to dedicate their time to do stuff for the alliances increasing, adding more workload for them would just make the game suck even more for the fair few who offer to do stuff.

A total random round would probably be way better, as you would be exposed to a fair few new people hopefully.
I dont really see how it adds alot more work load to the alliance? especially as its just pre-round (as there could be a counter in the game to tell you how many members are private/public). If you had 80 members, you'd only have to ensure 20 went random, which wouldnt be too hard to track.

It also wouldnt effect the smaller alliances, as they wont have the tag to fill it up (obviously 60 private maximum, means any amount of randoms.. just no more than 60 private).

If this suggestion was actually used, i'd also clamp down on the amount of exiling allowed.. As you should be pretty confident that there will be quiet alot of active players in the random galaxys and dont want them all to end up in one. Also, if it actually worked.. It would mean that the bigger alliances would end up also helping the game through having members go random into gals with noobies, ensuring noobies get afew good players to play with in there galaxy.

The only real drawback i can see, is that alliances would put there crappy players or scanner players in the random galaxys but thats still better than putting no-one.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 18:35   #17
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

8:9 - Name: GIVING NERDS WOOD SINCE PT1 #1-NewDawn #2-CT #3-CT #4-VisioN #5-VisioN #6-p3nguins #7-CT #8-CT #9-CT #10-Call To Duty #11-CT #12-CT #13-eXcessum #14-Howling Rain #15-CT #16-CT #17-ASS #18-CT #19-ODDR #20-Apprime susp #21-DLR #22-Gross #23- #24- #25-

Its close enough to a fortress gal i spose
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 21:36   #18
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

It's kind of funny we never saw a need to figure out what alliances were in that galaxy.
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Unread 28 Apr 2010, 22:34   #19
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

I knew it had 9-10 ct, just didn't see a need to update intel on it
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Unread 29 Apr 2010, 04:45   #20
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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The suggestion that the public galaxies in the top 10 are "fortresses" or hard to hit or anywhere near competitive is a horrible misconception.

Let's look at 8.9 for example, a galaxy which has been a mainstay in the top 2. Not a single planet in the t100. Of the 25 planets, only 2 make the t200. That's pretty poor. Check out their roid graph on Sandmans, lots and lots of dips. Fact of the matter is, these high ranking public galaxies are getting roided fairly regularly and fairly easily by whatever alliance feels like an a-political gal raid. The galaxy is just made up of a lot of small planets.
I think we are having in part a communication problem. My definition of a fortress galaxy is not the traditional one, where the galaxy is made up primarily of one ally. My definition of a fortress is a galaxy controlled by a single ally with a number of non ally members in the gal to help support the team (not necessarily primarily mind you).

As appoco points out the reason my plan works is because of an artifact of this round, namely how BIG public galaxies could get. If this advantage is removed then the plan falls apart and a fenced private galaxy is probably the best solution.

My real argument is not that the buddy pack system or pure randoms is the way to go, but that any system that has galaxies with different rules is inherently unbalanced, and in my opinion cannot be balanced in a fair way and so therefore should not be attempted. What the right solution is I don't know, but the current system ain't it. I know I may be in the minority on the forums regarding this, but I think the facts this round, and the facts next round if the current system is not modified will bear that out.

One other question for those that disagree with me. Pick the top private galaxy, with 28 publics they could have all easily exiled into a public galaxy together early in the round when the cost is low and then played together just like they have now. They would have totally dominated in my opinion.
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Unread 29 Apr 2010, 09:30   #21
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

I think people are forgetting how ridiculously easy to raid these public gals is. Pretty sure I have red on my screen every time I log in, and I'm in a "t10" gal... people literally just farm public gals.
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Unread 29 Apr 2010, 11:53   #22
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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I think we are having in part a communication problem. My definition of a fortress galaxy is not the traditional one, where the galaxy is made up primarily of one ally. My definition of a fortress is a galaxy controlled by a single ally with a number of non ally members in the gal to help support the team (not necessarily primarily mind you).
I wasn't labelling them as fortresses (hence using quotations), I was simply reapplying the label you gave them:
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several "fortress" public galaxies have appeared (just look at the t10).
Nonetheless, what they're called is irrelevant. I'm simply trying to make the point that the illusion of these top ranked public galaxies being competitive is just that, an illusion.

And, in regards to the idea of creating a "real fortress" of CT members (using the term fortress in relation to Ascendancy style galaxies of the past rounds), as mz and others have said: fortresses are overrated, they're not a good tactic for alliances that don't have a high skill/activity level. No offence to CT, but you'd just be making yourselves an easy target (if any alliance specifically wanted to target you, which wouldn't be the case this round because there's bigger fish to fry).
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Unread 29 Apr 2010, 14:25   #23
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Nonetheless, what they're called is irrelevant. I'm simply trying to make the point that the illusion of these top ranked public galaxies being competitive is just that, an illusion.
You are right in one sense and wrong in another. Public galaxies are not in fact competitive if you are trying to have a top planet as it stands right now. However they are absolutely competitive when it comes to going for the top galaxy as shear numbers are sufficient to hold their own against an 8 man galaxy. If the rules are changed, or the ratio of public/private galaxies was different then absolutely privates might dominate. The simple fact is the t10 is full of publics and not privates, and if they wanted to the top players could all move to publics and still perform extremely well (this round). The idea that privates are inherently better in a universe with few publics is an illusion. I keep trying to explain why, but many in this thread don't seem to get it, I am not sure why.

The other big problem with the current system is it really separates the newbies from the top players, and I really think it is an absolute crime to do this. Either newbies need to be completely separated and play in their own little uni (say c200) or they need to be allowed to be integrated with the top players so that they can see how the top players manage it and learn from them. Not that I am a top player, but I have had the privilege this round to work with half a dozen true PA newbies this round and it has been fun. If I had chosen to go into a private galaxy I doubt many of these newbies would have stood any chance at all.

Also it is a misnomer that public gals can always be roided at will. My gal (not a t10) does a very good job at stopping random incomming. Unless we are hit with a gal raid we rarely get roided. So it really all depends on the activity level in the public galaxy and their commitment to work as a team, something that is certainly easy to do in private gals, but can also be done in public gals.
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Unread 29 Apr 2010, 16:11   #24
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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The idea that privates are inherently better in a universe with few publics is an illusion. I keep trying to explain why, but many in this thread don't seem to get it, I am not sure why.
It's because we realise that in a universe with galaxies of two sizes, the rankings are meaningless. As a result, we judge galaxies by how hard they are to roids. In that light, it's not very strange that the people in private galaxies aren't particularly impressed by the performance of random galaxies this round. That's what I meant earlier, when I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
As ellonweb correctly pointed out, it's not because random galaxies are particularly strong, but because they're disproportionally large in comparison with private galaxies. I would still argue that it is actually way harder to roid a highly ranked private galaxy like 8:3 than a highly ranked random galaxy like 8:9. There is, after all, a reason why we spent so much effort setting up the hit on 8:3 while we'd roid 8:9 on a sunday afternoon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
The other big problem with the current system is it really separates the newbies from the top players, and I really think it is an absolute crime to do this. Either newbies need to be completely separated and play in their own little uni (say c200) or they need to be allowed to be integrated with the top players so that they can see how the top players manage it and learn from them. Not that I am a top player, but I have had the privilege this round to work with half a dozen true PA newbies this round and it has been fun. If I had chosen to go into a private galaxy I doubt many of these newbies would have stood any chance at all.
While I agree that it's a problem that newbies and veterans (you don't need to be top 100 to teach newbies) don't interact that much, reducing the number of new players that stick around, I don't think the solution lies in "forcing" the veterans to interact with newbies. I myself am currently in a lowly ranked random galaxy and I can't even be arsed to say "hello" to them, I really can't, let alone educate them. If you're counting on people like me to teach them about PA, you'll be in for a nasty surprise.

Quote:
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Also it is a misnomer that public gals can always be roided at will. My gal (not a t10) does a very good job at stopping random incomming. Unless we are hit with a gal raid we rarely get roided. So it really all depends on the activity level in the public galaxy and their commitment to work as a team, something that is certainly easy to do in private gals, but can also be done in public gals.
But unlike when we roid 8:3, we don't need 4 alliances TA'ing to do it. That's the difference.
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Unread 29 Apr 2010, 19:23   #25
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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However they are absolutely competitive when it comes to going for the top galaxy as shear numbers are sufficient to hold their own against an 8 man galaxy.
Bear in mind that if the politics of this round were different (similar to those of any of the last few rounds for example) these public galaxies would be raped to shit by the end of the round. Fact is that all the major alliances are currently preoccupied with other things to deal with these public galaxies.

mz makes a far better point, but this is supplementary.
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Unread 30 Apr 2010, 00:09   #26
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

5 man pure alliance gals!
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Unread 3 May 2010, 15:12   #27
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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5 man pure alliance gals!
1 man gals, no tags.
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Unread 3 May 2010, 15:27   #28
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

I actually suggested busting up ND fortress galaxies this round by asking them to exile into random gals. Fortresses are great for drawing large amounts of concentrated incomings, and you really need a strong defensive alliance to support them properly.
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Unread 3 May 2010, 15:53   #29
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
I actually suggested busting up ND fortress galaxies this round by asking them to exile into random gals. Fortresses are great for drawing large amounts of concentrated incomings, and you really need a strong defensive alliance to support them properly.
Yup, in BlueTuba we went for this strategy and HR did the same in r11/12 (ironically making it impossible for ND to hit them given your post).

If you want to fly under the radar and become near impossible to kick lumps out of, spreading out is the right strategy, particularly if your active defence pool is limited. You'll lose more from the average galaxy raid but if you're good enough to get defence out to cover those, you end up losing very little. It's a very inefficient tradeoff but one well worth considering if you don't rate yourself in a war for #1 type situation. The only type of attack you really need to worry about is a fleetcatch, but then you are probably set up to avoid getting into that level of conflict in the first place.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 12:08   #30
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

Just make a maximum of 13 planets for every gal (private and public), 8 man bp's, so 5 people can still exile in.
That way every gal could be as strong as another as long as active people are in it...
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Unread 17 May 2010, 04:44   #31
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

13 planet public gals will suck, tho it would encourage people to do private gals more, i wouldn't want to take my chances in a 13 planet random gal. most likely 7 of those planets will be inactive.

cap at 18 planets would be nice tho
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Unread 17 May 2010, 08:06   #32
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Re: Why Public/Privates don't work (at least this round)

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Originally Posted by HeimdallR View Post
13 planet public gals will suck, tho it would encourage people to do private gals more, i wouldn't want to take my chances in a 13 planet random gal. most likely 7 of those planets will be inactive.

cap at 18 planets would be nice tho
I doubt many people will take the risk to start random. There is no way to go back to private if it fails. And it will fail if a lot of people go random and the size of random galaxies is well below 20. If private galaxies fail, you can always exile.
I'd prefer a dynamic cap that activates as long as a random galaxy is #1, so random and private galaxies are automaticly balanced.
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