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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 21:39   #201
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
I'd actually say the only credible threat is Ascendancy, so optimizing my fleet to roid Ascendancy still seems like a good idea to me. Also note that optimizing my roiding fleet does not automatically mean i am opening myself to other attacks. On the other hand, allowing those Asc xan fortress gals to keep growing stronger and stronger is really begging to lose in the long run.
you are forgetting at asc likes to sit back and defend, and then launch counters/fcs etc, you build peacekeepers means we build more dreads (many of us have more than 2 dreads for every wraith and have some peacekeepers too) this does not make us any easier for other alliances to hit (no one has gone for fr/de in a big way) while meaning that apprime are back to square one.
Our way has the advantage that our fleets are still solid against all possible attackers (why app needed so many pks in the 1st place) while app are finding they have very little in the way of anti bs defence in a universe where etd is the 2nd most represented race and ofc asc dont have them, meaning the rest of the universe wants good targets for their etd bs so go shopping for app roids.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 21:46   #202
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
On the other hand, allowing those Asc xan fortress gals to keep growing stronger and stronger is really begging to lose in the long run.
I agree. I'm not sure if Apprime could've done anything that would've countered our strategy without opening themselves to other alliances.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 21:49   #203
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Which is not the same as saying that the fact they did that was not a considerable element in their continuing troubles.
That however kind of makes it sound like they never had a chance which is certainly untrue.
I cannot accept that building a fleet that is strong against a small part of the game (Asc) but very flawed otherwise is a sensible strategy taken to the extreems they have. We have seen Fi/co ppl with almost no anti cr/bs and ppl with hordes of PKs; certainly they need a strong PK element, its about balance tho.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 22:13   #204
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

As everyone else seems to be weighing in, I don't really care about the reasons why we're beating Apprime. As far as I'm concerned the focus is Apprime until they stop being a credible force or are 3rd. Even if that means beating them night after night. Why? If they keep using tactics of ours which are proven to be effective (however they execute them) why wouldn't we do that?
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 22:42   #205
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Apprime just didn't get enough of a lead, thats all there is to it. Xan fortress is always going to get stronger relative to other setups as the round progresses.
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Unread 1 Oct 2009, 23:05   #206
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Erm, it's not like we didn't build -any- Cr, we just focussed more on Peacekeepers. (I for example had 80k Wraith 100k Dread 125k PK at the time of my incs). Saying we 'left a flank wide open' is a bit extreme.

Ascendancy having almost no random incs is as far as I can see the biggest difference between them.







Well, maybe next to the daily Apprime crashes.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 00:28   #207
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
I mentioned fortresses as a contributing factor early on, R U trying to say u dont like to hit ppl with sucky fleets?
I am saying that msot bc in shit alliances ( all alliances ) dont really look too much at fleet combinations. They look at race ratios / value / roids and alliances.
No one wants to hit pure xan gals.
No one wants to hit pure asc gals, cause they fear they may be retalled.

Fleet compositions are not important at all here. They get incs cause they are in worse gals / gals easier to roid.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 07:46   #208
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I know that and its the biggest reason to be in fortresses at all (that and the gal DC's better) but since apps are not in fortress gals when their 'normal' gals get 'normal' raids ppl will look at apps and take em before taking others, surely its that simple. What the BC sees dosent matter, if he puts up a gal with an unbalanced app in it said app is likely to take a harder knock than he otherwise would, and since apps are scattered they will find their gals put up.
I was never trying to turn this into the primary cause for defeat (which btw dosent seem to have even occured yet), why should I play down my own allys herculean efforts? I did say feather that broke the camels back after all, thus implying a small thing with many others.
My primary gripe with Gio2ks original post was the way he ignored the potential role of the rest of the universe. Early on with app having a big lead but already building heavy PKs (not so much as later) they could easily have found themselves on the wrong side of a gangbang in which anti asc optimised fleets would be a serious handicap. Their assumption that Asc would be the bulk of their problems payed off as this wasnt (unusually) a gangbanging round, but it might not have; cheating scandals have tended to trigger a major gangbang by the whole uni if Asc is involved (thinking r26 and it was only a false rumour) so counting out the rest of the uni seems absurd if ur HC is busy cheating.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 11:36   #209
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
My primary gripe with Gio2ks original post was the way he ignored the potential role of the rest of the universe. Early on with app having a big lead but already building heavy PKs (not so much as later) they could easily have found themselves on the wrong side of a gangbang in which anti asc optimised fleets would be a serious handicap. Their assumption that Asc would be the bulk of their problems payed off as this wasnt (unusually) a gangbanging round, but it might not have; cheating scandals have tended to trigger a major gangbang by the whole uni if Asc is involved (thinking r26 and it was only a false rumour) so counting out the rest of the uni seems absurd if ur HC is busy cheating.
And my primary gripe with your posts is that you are overexaggerating the potential role of the rest if the universe. It's not "Oh Apprime built only PKs and thus are open to attack by the rest of the universe!!!!123". Apprime as just as unroidable by the small / medium alliances as they have been all the round.
The only alliances that might profit a bit might be alliances like evolution, dlr or penguins, that have enough firepower to get through. But even so, you don't have to be a genius to figure out that hitting Apprime is not the best strategy if you want the Asc vs Apprime going on, because let's be honest, the only thing that keeps Asc from roiding the other alliances is the war with Apprime.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 11:43   #210
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
And my primary gripe with your posts is that you are overexaggerating the potential role of the rest if the universe. It's not "Oh Apprime built only PKs and thus are open to attack by the rest of the universe!!!!123". Apprime as just as unroidable by the small / medium alliances as they have been all the round.
The only alliances that might profit a bit might be alliances like evolution, dlr or penguins, that have enough firepower to get through. But even so, you don't have to be a genius to figure out that hitting Apprime is not the best strategy if you want the Asc vs Apprime going on, because let's be honest, the only thing that keeps Asc from roiding the other alliances is the war with Apprime.
I agree that no-one outside of Asc propbably made a decision to hit Apprime planets / galaxies based on their fleets.

However when gal raids by Evo, DLR, Newdawn etc are setup, any Apprime planets in these galaxies would have attracted extra claims from alliance members due to their fleets being 'in-efficient' against anything other than Asc.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 12:01   #211
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Iīm quite surprised planets like Cardinals new one didnīt get swarmed with FI/CO on a daily basis. I know the likes of Evo are no participants in the war, but a 1k roids planet without any anti-FI/CO is quite an invitation for incomings.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 12:14   #212
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

He is mod in his new gal so he is hiding resources in the gal fund so he can keep value down and roid lowbies
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 12:16   #213
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Appearantly I missed him getting roided a fair bit anyway. Well done, whoever it was.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 12:45   #214
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Optimizing the fleets to attack Asc targets is bound to fail. You need to optimize your fleet to defend against them. And get attack fleets to target other alliances without specifically hitting any...
It's simply because you have a better chance to win against Asc by preventing them to gain your roids rather than by stealing theirs (too much guess works and risky landings with the inevitable crashes).
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 13:05   #215
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
Optimizing the fleets to attack Asc targets is bound to fail. You need to optimize your fleet to defend against them. And get attack fleets to target other alliances without specifically hitting any...
It's simply because you have a better chance to win against Asc by preventing them to gain your roids rather than by stealing theirs (too much guess works and risky landings with the inevitable crashes).
I completely disagree with your opinion. Starting with the fact that nobody gets roids by optimizing his defence fleet, and even the best defence fleet is not going to save you from losing roids eventually, or for that matter from getting attacked when in war.
Obviously, crashing fleets is something i wouldn't ever expect of alliances like Apprime. Never land on a target if you are not 100% sure there's not enough defence or that it's fake. Sure, many ppl will have to recall on targets they could have gone through, but never risk losing value on a hunch.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 16:09   #216
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I completely disagree with your opinion. Starting with the fact that nobody gets roids by optimizing his defence fleet, and even the best defence fleet is not going to save you from losing roids eventually, or for that matter from getting attacked when in war.
Actually thats pretty much what app did to win last round; FR/DE fortresses, pretty sucky in attack awesome in defence. Asc couldnt land and gave up, tho only after everyone else had
Also neither App or Asc are unroidable by the smaller allies, while at war if they launch late on either of us they have a good chance simply because we R 100% fleet usage on each other.
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Unread 2 Oct 2009, 18:32   #217
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I completely disagree with your opinion...
you're talking in general terms when I talk specifically of Asc vs App this round with Asc race and fleet choices... can't agree when we're not talking of the same thing.
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Unread 3 Oct 2009, 10:32   #218
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Apprime's big joker card is them being more active than everyone else. If they aren't playing that successfully, then they're going to have problems. So I wouldn't really worry yourselves about fleet combinations if the one thing that gives them cutting edge is a bit lacking.
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Unread 3 Oct 2009, 15:53   #219
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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you're talking in general terms when I talk specifically of Asc vs App this round with Asc race and fleet choices... can't agree when we're not talking of the same thing.
Luckily peacekeepers were both the best ship to def and att asc with, so you two are argueing over nothing If there's one trend I see in asc, it's that we go whatever race has the best def/is hardest to hit, certainly seems to be working out?
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Unread 3 Oct 2009, 16:11   #220
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

so then, was I right?

round over, and time to hit the idiots which fenced!
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Unread 4 Oct 2009, 00:40   #221
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

The ones that didn't (needlessly?) crash in defense of people out of their own tag anyway ^^
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 15:44   #222
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Hey!
What's going on? Who is / was hitting that Asc gal?
Probably an attempt to secure top planet / gal, but i'd like to know some details
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 15:49   #223
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

I think its pretty save to say the only ones not hitting that Asc gal, was Asc.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 15:55   #224
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I think its pretty save to say the only ones not hitting that Asc gal, was Asc.
And Evolution.
An impressive amount of hate there given they were not very likely top gal contenders and benneh was only holding on to top by a thread even before this.
Unusually we have an Asc dominated round where the top 10 planets are not at all dominated by Asc; Rather its fencing allies holding their own, which just goes to show that the Asc/App war did have an effect.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 16:06   #225
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Hey!
What's going on? Who is / was hitting that Asc gal?
Probably an attempt to secure top planet / gal, but i'd like to know some details
Everyone is hitting that Asc gal. If only this would've happen 10 days ago...
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 16:17   #226
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by DeeJay View Post
Everyone is hitting that Asc gal. If only this would've happen 10 days ago...

Shitty alliances showing yet again they're really not that shit (or more accurately, the skill involved in this game is minimal and the gap isn't that big), just lack any decent brains and leaders to make proper use of themselves at the right time!
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 16:18   #227
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by DeeJay View Post
Everyone is hitting that Asc gal. If only this would've happen 10 days ago...
Still 3 nights roiding to go; could crush reese's gal then my own and another (Ministry?) in that time if you kept that kind of coalition together. However it dosent get u anywhere much different from how things stand now, Its surely impossible to deny Asc the Alliance win, fragile though it is 5.1 continues to hold on to gal win. Reese could get planet win as things stand, but agar3s is in good shape to prevent that (though with a weak gal as his Achilles heel) and if not him then ATRO.
So you would have Ascendancy Alliance win, Apprime for gal win (though 5.1 could be claimed by several allies) and P3nguins for planet win, which is exactly how things stand at the moment.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 16:47   #228
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

5:1 gal win would probably end in a huge circle jerk of all the allies with planets in there (thatīs mostly identical with the allies that hit 9 7 today, right?).

On the upside, I might finally find the motivation not to do anything at all next round
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 17:13   #229
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Of course it will end in a huge circlejerk, dire players who were never going to win anything in a another way than not getting inc for 90% of the round will ofcourse have to.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 17:40   #230
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

An App gal win and bashing a couple more Asc gals would would definetly restore a little lost pride.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 17:43   #231
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by tetrac View Post
An App gal win and bashing a couple more Asc gals would would definetly restore a little lost pride.
Could have done that by not giving in so suddenly as it was.
Not much pride to be gained in raping one gal at a time with 60/70% of the active universe, if its reduced to a numbers game its really of no interest at all.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 17:46   #232
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

poor benneh.
I dont see why that was arranged tbh, if anyone deserved the round win, it was him? ( nice FCing urself though btw! )
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 17:56   #233
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
poor benneh.
I dont see why that was arranged tbh, if anyone deserved the round win, it was him? ( nice FCing urself though btw! )
That was my responsibility really. I was busy (obviously!) and checked the ingame def menu for that wave to see the non-cr/bs incs. Saw a cath reported eta 8 and an etd reported eta 8. Loaded the inc scan for the etd, saw it was fi and assumed it was just reported early (I didn't double-check numbers here, price of 400 incoming fleets means double-checking time goes down). Of course it was the inc scan of the etd from someone else in my gal and boom! If pateam could sort that out for next round it'd be really appreciated!

It was, obviously, arranged because none of the alliances involved felt that they could touch us separately and that by teaming up together they'd be able to at least get something out of the round in terms of gal or planet ranks. I can't imagine it'd be anything else. You should have seen everyone's excuses for not hitting 5.1 when that gal had had zero incs all round.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 17:59   #234
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by tetrac View Post
An App gal win and bashing a couple more Asc gals would would definetly restore a little lost pride.
"We were pretty soundly beaten 1 on 1 but we managed to roid a few of their gals when it was far too late with 70% of the active universe helping us and a gal we have 4 members in managed to win."

Er, go team apprime?
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 18:10   #235
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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"We were pretty soundly beaten 1 on 1 but we managed to roid a few of their gals when it was far too late with 70% of the active universe helping us and a gal we have 4 members in managed to win."

Er, go team apprime?
"I'm butthurt"
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 18:14   #236
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
That was my responsibility really. I was busy (obviously!) and checked the ingame def menu for that wave to see the non-cr/bs incs. Saw a cath reported eta 8 and an etd reported eta 8. Loaded the inc scan for the etd, saw it was fi and assumed it was just reported early (I didn't double-check numbers here, price of 400 incoming fleets means double-checking time goes down). Of course it was the inc scan of the etd from someone else in my gal and boom! If pateam could sort that out for next round it'd be really appreciated!

It was, obviously, arranged because none of the alliances involved felt that they could touch us separately and that by teaming up together they'd be able to at least get something out of the round in terms of gal or planet ranks. I can't imagine it'd be anything else. You should have seen everyone's excuses for not hitting 5.1 when that gal had had zero incs all round.
haha, u nab!
anyway, I dont like this shit late round. But alas, it happens way too often.
Also!!!! Now we will have a woman winning a round of Planetarion!
THIS IS UNHEARD OF! All men unite!
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 18:21   #237
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

The round aint over yet

To be fair this has happened plenty before, however this round it's not elviz being roided
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 18:22   #238
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

what woman will win PA?

reese is going to get roided back to the stone age sometime soon man
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 18:30   #239
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by tetrac View Post
"I'm butthurt"
You don't know me and that's fair enough. I'm not complaining though. Come back tomorrow with twice as many alliances (although in fairness I don't think that's possible). I'm not going to go emo and quit. I just honestly don't see how you imagine this restores lost apprime pride.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
haha, u nab!
I still have that brep of you getting roided by a fake in r29!

Quote:
anyway, I dont like this shit late round. But alas, it happens way too often.
I don't think it happens that often. Didn't really happen last round or r31. The top gal got hit at the end of r30 but that was just for one night by, if I recall correctly, asc and CT. R29 it didn't happen, r28 didn't happen. To be fair my memory gets a little bit hazy before that! Unless you mean planet wise in which case it didn't happen to eks or santa, they tried to do it to elviz but failed, never happened to sunny and didn't work on voodoo although they tried it then too. I know linkie won r27 and I think he got incs, but not really close to this level. R26 was all the people getting fced and I honestly can't even remember who won r25.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 18:42   #240
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I still have that brep of you getting roided by a fake in r29!
haha, god was I pissed then kinda epic how 1.1k etd bs roided me this round also. wasnt even a fake, I just had fkall anti bs! and dc didnt send me def since it was such a tiny amount.

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I don't think it happens that often. Didn't really happen last round or r31. The top gal got hit at the end of r30 but that was just for one night by, if I recall correctly, asc and CT. R29 it didn't happen, r28 didn't happen. To be fair my memory gets a little bit hazy before that! Unless you mean planet wise in which case it didn't happen to eks or santa, they tried to do it to elviz but failed, never happened to sunny and didn't work on voodoo although they tried it then too. I know linkie won r27 and I think he got incs, but not really close to this level. R26 was all the people getting fced and I honestly can't even remember who won r25.
You might be correct. I ve had some massive FC / waves on me over the years / seen others have it, but nothing compared to what I saw last night, hehe.

r25 was won by elviz btw. ( I ended 3rd! The round I lost 124 roids or something all ****ing round )
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 18:46   #241
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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haha, god was I pissed then kinda epic how 1.1k etd bs roided me this round also. wasnt even a fake, I just had fkall anti bs! and dc didnt send me def since it was such a tiny amount.
I told you to build those bombers!

Quote:
r25 was won by elviz btw. ( I ended 3rd! The round I lost 124 roids or something all ****ing round )
Ah, I do remember that now. That round probably would count, had the huge waves on bigbad and smasher (particularly the hilarious fr/de one) which meant they didn't have a chance of #1 planet anymore.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 19:18   #242
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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I told you to build those bombers!



Ah, I do remember that now. That round probably would count, had the huge waves on bigbad and smasher (particularly the hilarious fr/de one) which meant they didn't have a chance of #1 planet anymore.
well, me and elviz had some massive waves on us also, especially elviz. Smasher nubed his shot himself, but tbh no one would have taken him anyway I think.

and ye!!! I prodded up to like 55k bombers right after that... if someone had bothered to actually call me on, I would have selfcovered it. useless gal
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 20:31   #243
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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An App gal win and bashing a couple more Asc gals would would definetly restore a little lost pride.
I'm sorry, but Apprime have no right to any this round. Because quite simply, they've played that badly.

They had this round successfully lost by tick 450-500, and their mass crashing on us was just mere confirmation of their desperation at that point. By that point, they had cashed in all their political chips by playing extremely recklessly and alienating nearly everyone, were being caught by a stronger alliance and were very much in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I mean I had a conversation with JBG at that point about the general situation and I guess the general concensus was that we'd probably won, although neither of us put it in those terms, because neither of us take winning planetarion for granted at that stage of play.

The option they chose meant they hit us with no political support at all beyond Vision, which effectively made it a one on one contest. Had they waited, they might have got a large amount of unconditional support, but not before we'd probably have gained enough initiative and value to shred them first. In the end they just panicked completely, managed to totally alienate Evolution by screwing up even more, which then meant they were on the end of an even bigger can of whoopass than they would have otherwise.

Their round is just one gigantic political catastrophe and their HC shoulder all of the blame for a hilariously destructive chain reaction of ****ups. Or as ellonweb rightly summed up - all your leaders have shit for brains.
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 20:33   #244
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I don't think it happens that often. Didn't really happen last round or r31. The top gal got hit at the end of r30 but that was just for one night by, if I recall correctly, asc and CT.
rd 30 both 1st and 2nd ranked gals got hit in the last cpl of nights
me and bones were in the Heroes gal we got hit 1st then the dlr got hit the next night , i think it was asc and ct both nights the dlr gal lost more , which was probably down to too many from them in the one gal whereas we had a nice mix in our gal
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Unread 13 Oct 2009, 21:16   #245
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

ah yes, that abomination that was 12:5
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Unread 14 Oct 2009, 00:16   #246
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

6:1 deserved gal win in r30 the same way that 9:7 deserve gal win this round.

("deserve")
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Unread 14 Oct 2009, 00:47   #247
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

11:5 deserved gal win this round man!!!

For some weird reason my gal is always doing fking fantastic. untill some idiot like cardi gets closed or another tard like hanzi manages to get his co FCed by CR. happy days
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 14 Oct 2009, 03:14   #248
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

What went wrong when we were galmates? Oh yes.... you stopped giving a damn...
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Unread 14 Oct 2009, 03:20   #249
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion View Post
What went wrong when we were galmates? Oh yes.... you stopped giving a damn...
ohw, theam <3
bp next round man? and, well yes I kinda did, but we had no shot at that time anyway! first time I sat incs on us it was already done for gal win, wasnt it?
I like to think it was
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 14 Oct 2009, 03:52   #250
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Re: Ascendancy v Apprime

i am pro ministry bp again next round, but you can replace linkie i think!
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