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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 02:58   #51
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Seriously now guys. Wtf are p3nguins and Vision doing? Waiting for Apprime to roll them over? Apprime today has roided more than the other 3 alliances below them combined.
I guess they are playing safe. Some alliances just satisfy with second best.
Why sweat if you can just 'cruise' to 2nd?


PS! Gal riding is not the way to win!
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 07:04   #52
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
Rather amusing to see how some people almost obviously missed the joke, and how some(one) even started the good old Asc bashing.
Way to go
I am in the bandwagon.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 07:59   #53
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Seriously now guys. Wtf are p3nguins and Vision doing? Waiting for Apprime to roll them over? Apprime today has roided more than the other 3 alliances below them combined.
We are waiting for you to tell us your fantastic wisdom..
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 08:29   #54
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Seriously now guys. Wtf are p3nguins and Vision doing? Waiting for Apprime to roll them over? Apprime today has roided more than the other 3 alliances below them combined.
Avoiding to form a block so they won“t get all the abuse for "ruining the game"?
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 11:42   #55
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
We are waiting for you to tell us your fantastic wisdom..
Seriously Assassin, doesn't take a genius to see that if you let Apprime outroid you any longer, the round is over, and then you will have to deal with Apprime farming your planets. That was quite a weak response from you. Perhaps you should go and send one of your Braveheart speeches to the other HCs to convince them that it's not too late yet.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 11:44   #56
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by OlaTa View Post
PS! Gal riding is not the way to win!
Actually, it is, if everyone does is too and you are better at it. Like Apprime at the moment :P
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 11:47   #57
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Seriously Assassin, doesn't take a genius to see that if you let Apprime outroid you any longer, the round is over, and then you will have to deal with Apprime farming your planets. That was quite a weak response from you. Perhaps you should go and send one of your Braveheart speeches to the other HCs to convince them that it's not too late yet.
As i had the lovely cardi last nite (most likely stoned) Threatening to declare war pretty much for hitting an apprime gal i wouldnt call that just sitting here. However, i dont see the logic of a repeat last round (forming a massive block against one alliance, while asc's strong hold gals builds up even more) a fantastic tactic either do you?
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:16   #58
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
As i had the lovely cardi last nite (most likely stoned) Threatening to declare war pretty much for hitting an apprime gal i wouldnt call that just sitting here. However, i dont see the logic of a repeat last round (forming a massive block against one alliance, while asc's strong hold gals builds up even more) a fantastic tactic either do you?
Ascendancy play for the gal win. If you rather fight for top gal with Asc than for round win with Apprime, then by all means go and hit Asc. Let us know so that we start napping Apprime.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:20   #59
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
As i had the lovely cardi last nite (most likely stoned) Threatening to declare war pretty much for hitting an apprime gal i wouldnt call that just sitting here. However, i dont see the logic of a repeat last round (forming a massive block against one alliance, while asc's strong hold gals builds up even more) a fantastic tactic either do you?
Very nice defeatist attitude, there. Why bother doing anything if you're just going to lose anyway?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:32   #60
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Ascendancy play for the gal win. If you rather fight for top gal with Asc than for round win with Apprime, then by all means go and hit Asc. Let us know so that we start napping Apprime.
Heh. We do? That's news to me.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:38   #61
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Very nice defeatist attitude, there. Why bother doing anything if you're just going to lose anyway?
Actually no. If we were allowing them to win, then we wouldnt of course be targetting heavy gals now would we? Instead we would be random roiding like most of the other alliances below us seem to be doing. (hence the statement about cardi pming me moaning) My point is though however, its a decision you have to make. We wont 'allow' anyone to just walk away with a victory. But with the amusing abuse we (p3nguins) got on the boards last round i did find amusing to say the least considering we were (before the block was even formed) and after fighting apprime. We were dubbed as 'usless' So would be interesting to see if anyone else would like to start this anti apprime block which i keep been told we should do.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:42   #62
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Ascendancy play for the gal win.
as rounds 26, 28, 29, 30, 31 have shown us in recent history...
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:46   #63
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
Actually no. If we were allowing them to win, then we wouldnt of course be targetting heavy gals now would we? Instead we would be random roiding like most of the other alliances below us seem to be doing. (hence the statement about cardi pming me moaning) My point is though however, its a decision you have to make. We wont 'allow' anyone to just walk away with a victory. But with the amusing abuse we (p3nguins) got on the boards last round i did find amusing to say the least considering we were (before the block was even formed) and after fighting apprime. We were dubbed as 'usless' So would be interesting to see if anyone else would like to start this anti apprime block which i keep been told we should do.
No, if you were trying to win, you'd assemble enough force to take down Apprime. That said, not all alliances have to rely on politics in order to to have a chance of winning. If you're not willing (or able) to adequately play the politics game, I wish you the best of luck beating Apprime, on your own, with brute force.

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Ascendancy play for the gal win. If you rather fight for top gal with Asc than for round win with Apprime, then by all means go and hit Asc. Let us know so that we start napping Apprime.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:48   #64
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Assassin View Post
As i had the lovely cardi last nite (most likely stoned) Threatening to declare war pretty much for hitting an apprime gal i wouldnt call that just sitting here. However, i dont see the logic of a repeat last round (forming a massive block against one alliance, while asc's strong hold gals builds up even more) a fantastic tactic either do you?
Pfft big deal, cardi threatens to declare war on me all the time.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 12:58   #65
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
No, if you were trying to win, you'd assemble enough force to take down Apprime. That said, not all alliances have to rely on politics in order to to have a chance of winning. If you're not willing (or able) to adequately play the politics game, I wish you the best of luck beating Apprime, on your own, with brute force.
writing off the threat of your own ally a bit early mz?

to be fair to assassin he did say that blocking against apprime while allowing asc fortress gals to grow stronger wasnt a very good tactic

which given the potential we all know asc have is a valid observation (especially with all asc going xan, which will make their gals especially hard to land on)
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 13:18   #66
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

Not at all. What I am trying to do (and what Assassin should be trying to do) is showing that if no one does anything, Apprime will win. If they're taken down, we're all in the race again. It doesn't make Ascendancy the default winners, (we're 8th for god's sake!), it just puts us all back in the race.

FIguring someone else will mention this, I'll pre-empt them: writing this post, I am reminded of (I think) round 29(?), when we were in a similar situation. CT was way in the lead, and I and others tried to convince ND and Denial(?) that fighting CT was the best thing to do. Ascendancy ended up winning that round, of course.

The thing is, we might not have. And yeah, if Apprime gets taken down, we get a chance to win this round. But other alliances get one too. So it's simple: it's a choice between losing to Apprime for certain, right now or a maybe losing to Ascendancy later on in the round. I know which I'd pick.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 6 Sep 2009 at 13:32.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 13:44   #67
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Actually no. If we were allowing them to win, then we wouldnt of course be targetting heavy gals now would we?
Gal raiding hardly counts as an effort to stop them winning. You either have to out roid your enemy by going for cheap and easy gal raids (which you're not doing - you're gal raiding hard gals), or a concerted war effort, usually involving a block.

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Instead we would be random roiding like most of the other alliances below us seem to be doing.
What other alliances are or are not doing should not be a reason to not do something yourself. That's childish, and this was said about Penguins many times last round, the abuse that you got, you're just playing dumb, you are indeed useless. Man up, grow some balls, and start a proper war if you want even a small chance at winning.

Gal raiding your enemy is not a way to win if you're not as good as them.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 13:45   #68
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
FIguring someone else will mention this, I'll pre-empt them: writing this post, I am reminded of (I think) round 29(?), when we were in a similar situation. CT was way in the lead, and I and others tried to convince ND and Denial(?) that fighting CT was the best thing to do. Ascendancy ended up winning that round, of course.
Wasn't Denial, we were the ones trying to convince everyone Ascendancy was the enemy when they were too short-sighted and just hit us all round. In the end Asc overtook us and we still got hit, CT overtook us and we did not care, #2 or #10, its still not #1. I do happen to agree with you about this round though!
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 13:54   #69
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Wasn't Denial, we were the ones trying to convince everyone Ascendancy was the enemy when they were too short-sighted and just hit us all round. In the end Asc overtook us and we still got hit, CT overtook us and we did not care, #2 or #10, its still not #1.
I am really bad with old rounds. I'm amazed I even got the number right.

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I do happen to agree with you about this round though!
Out of curiousity: what's different this round?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 13:58   #70
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

It's not his alliance that'll be getting blocked against?
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 14:18   #71
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

Could be wrong here, I think Venox means to say that the difference between the skill/activity-based #1 and the rest is bigger now (and last round) than it was that round.

Also, I took first look at alliance rankings today and saw a whole bunch of "new" allies. Will they be here next round as well, or will they disband when they don't win and all the party goers hop to the next promise? In any case, good luck. You know what to do
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 14:37   #72
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
Gal raiding hardly counts as an effort to stop them winning. You either have to out roid your enemy by going for cheap and easy gal raids (which you're not doing - you're gal raiding hard gals), or a concerted war effort, usually involving a block.


What other alliances are or are not doing should not be a reason to not do something yourself. That's childish, and this was said about Penguins many times last round, the abuse that you got, you're just playing dumb, you are indeed useless. Man up, grow some balls, and start a proper war if you want even a small chance at winning.

Gal raiding your enemy is not a way to win if you're not as good as them.

Actually, if its P Targetting, TAing or even hitting their heavy gals they are still making the effort and not avoiding them. I myself wasnt around last round, but from what i heard p3nguins were actually hitting apprime gals before the block happend, they were hitting the biggest gals during while the block happend and had even apprime admit in the end of round log they were the biggest threat to them in the whole round. So therefore, unless my intel of last round is incorrect, they were not usless.


Now, this round asc are in a fantastic position from what i can see. They have all gone virtually one race type pretty much. They have already established stronghold galaxies. And now are demanding the rest of the universe do somthing to stop Apprime?

Its obvious that Asc arnt a full tag, however they have shown time and time again they are still a force, and shouldnt be taken lightly. From what i understand last round they used the pollitics to position themselves to win top planets/gals due to forming a block, then leaving to nap Apprime. To me i sense history repeating itself here. If p3nguins, vsn and everyone else formed a block to take on Apprime who would Apprime turn too? They would be forced to nap Asc. Meaning tacticaly asc know Apprime are probably the only ones strong enough to stop their flag ship galaxies at the moment. Maybe thats just my terrible observations. But to claim p3nguins has no balls after the spirit they shown in their first round last round i find very amusing. Seems the bullying tactic is still here in this game long after i left. 'If we insult them enough and call them names they will do it'.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:13   #73
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

What people don't understand is that Apprime in terms of activity, outstrip everyone else by a very large margin. The systems they have in place (and which HanzI has bragged about on many occasions) are way beyond anything used by other alliances. With more value being gained as a consequence of heightened activity, these things snowball together to create growth that has to be massively curtailed to be overcome, as it's simply impossible to race them and win. So your only solution is war. With more value to outweigh that activity.

As for what Maddix says, it's not exactly earth shattering that Ascendancy plays politically astute rounds backed up by some solid play most of the time. From what I believe, that's how it's meant to work. Of course, we want to support our galaxies: but then again, if they're gone, then you are all dead if we're that strong.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:14   #74
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
as rounds 26, 28, 29, 30, 31 have shown us in recent history...
You'll find the most recent history entry is rd32. Where Asc even let Lukeylove get roided to the ground in order to get not only top gal but top planet as well.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:26   #75
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
What people don't understand is that Apprime in terms of activity, outstrip everyone else by a very large margin. The systems they have in place (and which HanzI has bragged about on many occasions) are way beyond anything used by other alliances. With more value being gained as a consequence of heightened activity, these things snowball together to create growth that has to be massively curtailed to be overcome, as it's simply impossible to race them and win. So your only solution is war.

As for what Maddix says, it's not exactly earth shattering that Ascendancy plays politically astute rounds backed up by some solid play most of the time. From what I believe, that's how it's meant to work. Of course, we want to support our galaxies: but then again, if they're gone, then you are all dead if we're that strong.

I 100% Agree with you. Asc as an alliance i think play this game in a fantastic way. The way they manipulate the universe polliticaly, and pretty much dominating it on the battlefield too for so many rounds is very much impressive. However, i am just trying to point out Apprime isnt the only threat here asc is too. Looking at sandmans alone for example, asc are ranked 8th fair enough, but if you look at the bigger picture here your 15 members behind the likes of p3nguins and have only 700 roids or so less roids then them. 5th on average score, and as i stated earlier are in some impressive stronghold galaxies.


Apprime are also an impressive force we can all see that, i am just simply trying to give everyone reading this forum a choice. You either of course block and fight Apprime, which therefore means you make it easier for asc, and maybe just maybe in the long run yourselves if you feel your strong enough to stop Apprime and Asc after, or you prevent ascs stronghold gals getting bigger and allow Apprime to win. Tough decision, but then again this game is never just black and white now is it.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:26   #76
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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to be fair to assassin he did say that blocking against apprime while allowing asc fortress gals to grow stronger wasnt a very good tactic
To be honest, Asc (if they indeed have what it takes to be contenders) should be Apprimes concern, not p3nguins or Visions.
However, i don't think Ascendancy has enough members / activity to be a threat to #1. (No offense to you Ascendants, you guys are welcome to prove me wrong!! )
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:27   #77
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
You'll find the most recent history entry is rd32. Where Asc even let Lukeylove get roided to the ground in order to get not only top gal but top planet as well.
You're funny. Keep it up joker.

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
To be honest, Asc (if they indeed have what it takes to be contenders) should be Apprimes concern, not p3nguins or Visions.
However, i don't think Ascendancy has enough members / activity to be a threat to #1. (No offense to you Ascendants, you guys are welcome to prove me wrong!! )
I certainly hope we don't.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:30   #78
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Maddix View Post
Actually, if its P Targetting, TAing or even hitting their heavy gals they are still making the effort and not avoiding them. I myself wasnt around last round, but from what i heard p3nguins were actually hitting apprime gals before the block happend, they were hitting the biggest gals during while the block happend and had even apprime admit in the end of round log they were the biggest threat to them in the whole round. So therefore, unless my intel of last round is incorrect, they were not usless.
As myself, mz and Lok have just said, targeting strong Apprime galaxies is not enough. Penguins are not denting Apprime's growth, merely costing their own. If Penguins were gal roiding easy targets, their growth would be much stronger, and the difference in day-on-day growth between Apprime and Penguins would be a lot smaller, CT are a brilliant example of this (edit: in previous rounds). However to the point, they'd still be behind Apprime, and that gap would still be increasing, as Apprime are simply better militarily. Hence the need for politics, a block, a war, etc., it's the only way to outgrow an opponent that is better than you.
Penguins' current tactics are therefore useless.

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Originally Posted by Maddix View Post
Now, this round asc are in a fantastic position from what i can see. They have all gone virtually one race type pretty much. They have already established stronghold galaxies.
Fantastic position, 8th. Any of the other alliances above us could take those "stronghold" galaxies down with a few days of good play at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Maddix View Post
And now are demanding the rest of the universe do somthing to stop Apprime?
There's no demanding going on. It's just obvious common sense that the universe needs to do something in order to prevent Apprime running away with it. Ascendancy is not separating itself from the rest of the universe, merely questioning the lack of leadership shown by the leading opponents to Apprime.

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
You'll find the most recent history entry is rd32. Where Asc even let Lukeylove get roided to the ground in order to get not only top gal but top planet as well.
I'm pretty sure NewDawn being shit had a hell of a lot more to do with Lukey getting roided than Ascendancy "letting" him get roided. You expected Asc to defend him more than his own alliance?
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:53   #79
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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As myself, mz and Lok have just said, targeting strong Apprime galaxies is not enough. Penguins are not denting Apprime's growth, merely costing their own.

Although it wasnt a major effect p3nguins only hit 2 galaxies last nite. One of which was 11:4 which is the galaxy i presume Assassin was reffering too earlier. Now according to sandmans seems they made an ok dent wouldnt you agree? http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewgal...11&y=4&order=z

Now not claiming this will stop them winning of course it cant. And i have no idea if anyone else attacked that gal, however looking at sandmans too overall on alliances at the moment at tick 211 You can also see:

http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=rankalliance

To me i think p3ng had a pretty good nite overall. Does this look like the sign of an alliance which is doing 'nothing'? I dont think so. I agree with you this wont stop Apprime, however i am simply disputing you claiming they are usless when they can do that. Might only be a small morale boost for one nite only, but its a morale boost either way and good luck to them.



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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
Fantastic position, 8th. Any of the other alliances above us could take those "stronghold" galaxies down with a few days of good play at the moment.
I agree yes i think they could. Would take a bit of organisation but yes i think it is of course possible. Which is why i said earlier they have a choice. Either turn full attention onto Apprime which you are requesting they do, or they can turn their attention to you. But the stronger you also get it becomes harder to stop you. Same theory you used in defending the fact people shouldnt wait to attack Apprime. We all know if done correctly. ingal cross defence can be as effective as having alliance defence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
There's no demanding going on. It's just obvious common sense that the universe needs to do something in order to prevent Apprime running away with it. Ascendancy is not separating itself from the rest of the universe, merely questioning the lack of leadership shown by the leading opponents to Apprime.
Oh im sorry i must of mistaken your insults toward alliances as 'just stating the obvious.' To me that makes me beleive your demanding they do somthing and now. However whats stopping you from taking the enitive and doing somthing about it? Yes your 8th, but also as i have pointed out even with 15 members less then most of the top 3 your only around 600 roids behind them. I do agree maybe there is a lack of leadership. But can you blame them? If they all block and hit Apprime they risk Apprime napping with yourselves (asc) And that helps them how? The 2 strongest alliances working togther. Again as i stated its a matter of choice here im just pointing out both sides of the coin.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:56   #80
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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I'm pretty sure NewDawn being shit had a hell of a lot more to do with Lukey getting roided than Ascendancy "letting" him get roided. You expected Asc to defend him more than his own alliance?
To be honest, yes, i expected his galaxy (almost all ascendancy) to defend him. Instead they said they would not defend him. But hey, we landed on him for lots of xp, so who cares right?
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 15:58   #81
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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You're funny. Keep it up joker.
You too. Only it's not funny, it's fact.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 16:31   #82
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

A 0.4% roid loss (which will probably turn into a positive) on a night where a major galaxy is targeted with the alliance retaining large % growth is usually considered a victory for the defenders. At such an early stage of the round where roids are lost more readily, particularly so. If you can keep that up for many many weeks you might get somewhere with that, although it's more likely that you'll have been found out and overrun by your superior opponent by then. If you think a 3-4% roid growth for slightly better score growth makes a lot of headway, then the history of previous rounds will tell you otherwise.

Maddix submits that we choose an Apprime victory or Ascendancy having strong galaxies. He effectively presents the two alliances as two equal evils in the universe. While the former results in everyone being overrun, the latter simply results in an alliance, small in number but with a few galaxies and planets having a big score. In military terms, I'd keep my armies until the end of the round but If people want to rely on an entirely misrepresentative interpretation of sandmans data and game mechanics, well what can I say, really. In recent history planet and galaxy ranks are pretty much things that are sorted out once wars have been won and in the short term, are irrelevant.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 16:44   #83
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Although it wasnt a major effect p3nguins only hit 2 galaxies last nite. One of which was 11:4 which is the galaxy i presume Assassin was reffering too earlier. Now according to sandmans seems they made an ok dent wouldnt you agree? http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=viewgal...11&y=4&order=z

Now not claiming this will stop them winning of course it cant. And i have no idea if anyone else attacked that gal, however looking at sandmans too overall on alliances at the moment at tick 211 You can also see:

http://www.sandmans.co.uk/?p=rankalliance

To me i think p3ng had a pretty good nite overall. Does this look like the sign of an alliance which is doing 'nothing'? I dont think so. I agree with you this wont stop Apprime, however i am simply disputing you claiming they are usless when they can do that. Might only be a small morale boost for one nite only, but its a morale boost either way and good luck to them.
One night is not representative, especially a Saturday night. That fact aside, I didn't (mean to) say that Penguins are doing nothing, just that relative to the grand scheme of their objectives, it's as good as nothing.

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Originally Posted by Maddix View Post
I agree yes i think they could. Would take a bit of organisation but yes i think it is of course possible. Which is why i said earlier they have a choice. Either turn full attention onto Apprime which you are requesting they do, or they can turn their attention to you. But the stronger you also get it becomes harder to stop you. Same theory you used in defending the fact people shouldnt wait to attack Apprime. We all know if done correctly. ingal cross defence can be as effective as having alliance defence.
Yes it's true that the longer the Ascendancy stronghold galaxies go untouched, the harder they will be to touch. However, you need to see the bigger picture. As we have already come to the conclusion that Penguins is unable to win by itself, and will therefore need allies, attacking one of their strongest (in terms of skill, not current value) potential allies now, would be a rather stupid move. I expect you can see the sense in that? On top of that, if Apprime are not taken down (for which as we have just agreed, Penguins will probably like the assistance of Ascendancy), Ascendancy themselves will never be in a position to win, because Apprime will be so dominant. Taking Ascendancy (or for that matter, any of the other alliances not at #1) down now, only serves to hinder your biggest problem, that of taking Apprime down. If you apply a bit of logic, you can see there is no real choice to be made, only a straight forward route of action. Please forgive my insults, it just hurts to see such silly mistakes being made, when the path forward is so obvious.

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Yes your 8th, but also as i have pointed out even with 15 members less then most of the top 3 your only around 600 roids behind them.
The gap is actually quite a bit bigger than that as the numbers shown are only for the top 60 members of each alliance. 15 members less, but only a few less counting to displayed scores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddix View Post
But can you blame them? If they all block and hit Apprime they risk Apprime napping with yourselves (asc) And that helps them how? The 2 strongest alliances working togther. Again as i stated its a matter of choice here im just pointing out both sides of the coin.
One step at a time. You can't not war Apprime now, because you fear Apprime will then nap Ascendancy, because you're then no closer to your goals and you've not even tried. A bit of foresight always helps, but you can't choose not to act - or worse, act in a detrimental way to your long term goals - because you fear something that may or may not happen. What's the point in even trying then? You might as well just give up now

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
To be honest, yes, i expected his galaxy (almost all ascendancy) to defend him. Instead they said they would not defend him. But hey, we landed on him for lots of xp, so who cares right?
That's completely untrue. The galaxy would have defended him, but received no communication or assistance from NewDawn, and it was impossible for the galaxy to defend him alone.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 16:49   #84
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Wasn't Denial, we were the ones trying to convince everyone Ascendancy was the enemy when they were too short-sighted and just hit us all round. In the end Asc overtook us and we still got hit, CT overtook us and we did not care, #2 or #10, its still not #1. I do happen to agree with you about this round though!
This wasn't exactly what happened! It was us, ND, and audentes early on. You guys hit audentes the most often from my recollection and they dropped off a lot. Towards the point at which both ourselves and ND were gaining fast on you, both of us had a fair few more roids, ND dropped out. Ascendancy passed Denial (in reality the scoregap was slightly misleading, we had a lot more value) and then there were a few nights of targeting by denial and a few other alliances on ascendancy but the score gap between us kept increasing and after like 4 days you guys stopped. To be honest early on we weren't thinking that much about winning the round, it was more about keeping you guys down, you'd fought Aud solo early on and really ****ed them. Later on it just seemed like Denial had been fighting a lot whereas we were relatively fresh and well able to continue.


Regarding last round to be fair a lot of alliance's come in for stick over shit that doesn't really make sense. Sure p3nguins lost in the end but while we were in the block I always found them easy to work, with one notable exception, and I know cardi told me their attacks were the toughest out of nd/ct/p3nguins/vr. And yeah last round Ascendancy left the block when it was no longer in our interests to be in it. Once it was relatively assured that apprime wouldn't utterly dominate the round I, personally, felt that our "job" was done. In terms of who actually won the round we weren't involved so obviously killing ourselves for someone else didn't exactly seem like a great idea. We ended up on apprime's side but solely due to the fact we were so small we needed another alliance to co-operate with on attacks. P3nguins actually offered this to us as well, although they did so very late and most people had already decided on their course of action at that stage.

Regarding this round sure we're a bit stronger than last round and I'd hope to god if we never ever got hit we'd manage to win. Clearly right now there are multiple alliances in better positions than us though.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:02   #85
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
What people don't understand is that Apprime in terms of activity, outstrip everyone else by a very large margin. The systems they have in place (and which HanzI has bragged about on many occasions) are way beyond anything used by other alliances.
this remains to be seen. the apprime system appears to be somewhat of a clone of the ascendancy system, and ascendancy have shown their capabilities many, many times recently.

if ascendancy have approached this round with their game faces on, they should be regarded as equal/superior to apprime, despite the events of last round and the first couple of hundred ticks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
You'll find the most recent history entry is rd32. Where Asc even let Lukeylove get roided to the ground in order to get not only top gal but top planet as well.
so because this happened last round we can disregard the four previous rounds in a row ascendancy were the winning ally along with the many other winning rounds in its history, and look at it as a flagshipping alliance with more interest in top gal/planet? even light wouldnt say something so silly /o\

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
To be honest, Asc (if they indeed have what it takes to be contenders) should be Apprimes concern, not p3nguins or Visions.
asc should be the concern of any alliance wishing to win this round just as much as apprime.

if vision or penguins want to win they have to defeat apprime and see ascendancy as the realistic threat they could very well be. big picture.

reactionary, short sighted politics of 'LETS GO FOR THE NUMBER BEFORE THEY GET TOO BIG!!1!1!' have been the cause of many allies in recent history to fail

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
However, i don't think Ascendancy has enough members / activity to be a threat to #1. (No offense to you Ascendants, you guys are welcome to prove me wrong!! )
then you clearly havent been around or paying attention the past few rounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Maddix submits that we choose an Apprime victory or Ascendancy having strong galaxies. He effectively presents the two alliances as two equal evils in the universe. While the former results in everyone being overrun, the latter simply results in an alliance, small in number but with a few galaxies and planets having a big score.
its amusing that asc propaganda machine rolls out the same thing every round yet people always buy it

the downplaying of asc's ability here is fantastic, especially saying that theyre small in number due to the fact theyre 15 members less on sandmans. planets outside tag+late signups+shipjumpers will easily make up for that by the mid point of the round.

IF everyone buys the ascendancy propaganda and wars with apprime (interesting that ascendancy are demanding penguins initiate the war here) by the time of late signups when ascendancy get their reinforcements, victory could well be within their grasp.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:08   #86
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy
reactionary, short sighted politics of 'LETS GO FOR THE NUMBER BEFORE THEY GET TOO BIG!!1!1!' have been the cause of many allies in recent history to fail
No. Alliances who went for the #1 may have later failed to win. It was certainly a necessary part of attempting to win though. Not hitting the #1 alliance at any point is just retarded and attempts to portray Ascendancy as a bigger threat to win the round than Apprime right now are laughable. You've got more players, roids, value and score. As regards history for god's sake half your memberbase and both of your HC (I'm actually not too sure on apprime's structure but I know cardi and elviz are the two guys I talked to last round) were Ascendancy for a number of rounds.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:32   #87
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
planets outside tag+late signups+shipjumpers will easily make up for that by the mid point of the round.
You're working off some big assumptions. Ascendancy doesn't have any out of tag planets to the best of my knowledge. Yes, in the past Ascendancy has had a lot of late starters (r29/30 spring to mind), and a lot of mid-round ship-jumpers, the former is very unlikely to be repeated this round with our reduced member count (just like last round), and again due to recent recruitment policy changes, ship-jumpers are also unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
(interesting that ascendancy are demanding penguins initiate the war here)
Ascendancy demanded the same last round. You expect those in the primary position of benefit from the intended course of action to be the ones to initiate it. That said, last round, when Ascendancy wasn't even a competitor, they eventually gave up and took on a lot of the leadership, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the same this round, given Asc are in a better position to compete this time.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:35   #88
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
No. Alliances who went for the #1 may have later failed to win. It was certainly a necessary part of attempting to win though. Not hitting the #1 alliance at any point is just retarded
not hitting the #1 alliance at any point is retarded, but so is listening to the arguments from the members (ellonweb, lokken, yourself) of a rival alliance (ascendancy: one which is well known for its great military ability and use of politics) who are attempting to browbeat you into following a certain action. (in this instance hitting apprime - (with a block from the looks of it))

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
and attempts to portray Ascendancy as a bigger threat to win the round than Apprime right now are laughable. You've got more players, roids, value and score. As regards history for god's sake half your memberbase and both of your HC (I'm actually not too sure on apprime's structure but I know cardi and elviz are the two guys I talked to last round) were Ascendancy for a number of rounds.
im not trying to say ascendancy are the bigger threat, but to write ascendancy off (as it seems the asc posters are trying to do) is silly. apprime have 6k more roids and 15 more players at tick 210. even if asc dont have players out of tag, theyre capable of getting more members with late signups as they often do. 15 late signups mining 500 roids each is 7500 roids ascendancy could pull out of thin air in under 5 days.

as stated im not trying to use such speculation to support an argument of 'ascendancy is the strongest ally and most likely to win', merely point out that the downplaying of ascendancys chances are boring and means very little to the people who have been paying attention these past few rounds.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:41   #89
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
im not trying to say ascendancy are the bigger threat, but to write ascendancy off (as it seems the asc posters are trying to do) is silly. apprime have 6k more roids and 15 more players at tick 210. even if asc dont have players out of tag, theyre capable of getting more members with late signups as they often do. 15 late signups mining 500 roids each is 7500 roids ascendancy could pull out of thin air in under 5 days.
Read the manual to learn how alliance score is calculated. Trying to ignore the game mechanics is just idiotic.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:44   #90
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
not hitting the #1 alliance at any point is retarded, but so is listening to the arguments from the members (ellonweb, lokken, yourself) of a rival alliance (ascendancy: one which is well known for its great military ability and use of politics) who are attempting to browbeat you into following a certain action. (in this instance hitting apprime - (with a block from the looks of it))
Listening to arguments is never a bad idea. Personally, I'd expect anyone who reads my posts to make up their own damned mind. People who are unable to do this are not really the audience I write my posts for. Though, of course, I can't speak for anyone else.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:45   #91
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
not hitting the #1 alliance at any point is retarded, but so is listening to the arguments from the members (ellonweb, lokken, yourself) of a rival alliance (ascendancy: one which is well known for its great military ability and use of politics) who are attempting to browbeat you into following a certain action. (in this instance hitting apprime - (with a block from the looks of it))
Except that that's a clear ad hominem. We're either right or we're wrong, either Apprime are a bigger threat than Ascendancy or they aren't. It doesn't matter who's advancing the argument, it's true or it's false independent of that. Also I've never proposed hitting anyone with a block (my posts before today in this thread have been largely tongue-in-cheek commentary on the fluidity with which alliance relations have changed in recent rounds).


Quote:
im not trying to say ascendancy are the bigger threat,
Quote:
Originally Posted by You, one post ago
if ascendancy have approached this round with their game faces on, they should be regarded as equal/superior to apprime, despite the events of last round and the first couple of hundred ticks.
Quote:
but to write ascendancy off (as it seems the asc posters are trying to do) is silly. apprime have 6k more roids and 15 more players at tick 210. even if asc dont have players out of tag, theyre capable of getting more members with late signups as they often do. 15 late signups mining 500 roids each is 7500 roids ascendancy could pull out of thin air in under 5 days.
Who's writing ascendancy off? I doubt anyone would do that, as you say we have a good history. And it's not about roids. Value wins rounds. For every single day so far this round, and for at least 2-3 more days regardless of what happens Apprime will have been mining more roids than Ascendancy, and everyone else for that matter. That sort of value growth takes time to outpace. We'd have to maintain a similar roid lead over you guys to then be in that position. If we capped up to your roidcount tomorrow we'd still be behind on value and we'd still never get in front unless you crashed badly or we went ahead on roidcount and stayed ahead. Talking about late signups and out of tag planets and shit is pretty laughable as well. What are those extra eight spaces intag for you guys there for? Self-handicapping 1up style?

Quote:
as stated im not trying to use such speculation to support an argument of 'ascendancy is the strongest ally and most likely to win',
Ignoring the fact you stated exactly that...

Quote:
merely point out that the downplaying of ascendancys chances are boring and means very little to the people who have been paying attention these past few rounds.
You mean like last round where people said Ascendancy weren't going to win and we didn't win and you guys won? Or like r30 where half of your alliance was in Ascendancy and won? I'm confused!
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 17:54   #92
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
im not trying to say ascendancy are the bigger threat, but to write ascendancy off (as it seems the asc posters are trying to do) is silly. apprime have 6k more roids and 15 more players at tick 210.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
One step at a time. You can't not war Apprime now, because you fear [something in the future*]. A bit of foresight always helps, but you can't choose not to act - or worse, act in a detrimental way to your long term goals - because you fear something that may or may not happen. What's the point in even trying then? You might as well just give up now
Sure, Ascendancy are a threat at some point in the future. Keep one eye on Ascendancy if you want. But your focus has to be where the money is if you ever want to get it.

(* Yes, I paraphrased what I had originally written in my quote to apply it to this post.)
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 18:36   #93
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
this remains to be seen. the apprime system appears to be somewhat of a clone of the ascendancy system, and ascendancy have shown their capabilities many, many times recently.

if ascendancy have approached this round with their game faces on, they should be regarded as equal/superior to apprime, despite the events of last round and the first couple of hundred ticks.
I'd suggest we were better man for man than Apprime last round, we were just never big enough to assert any major influence. However the way they drive activity, which is essentially a skype fuelled session of actually ringing people (occasionally their opponents) to get them out of bed, is one that pays off when it gets them out of sight early on. It is a bludgeon of a tactic and quite physically punishing in the long term, but effective. If you get them a prolonged conflict they are no longer in a position to totally dominate. As was proven last round.

Ascendancy want to play well every round, "game face" is neither here nor there. As JBG has already pointed out, we are slightly stronger this round but from last round 50-51 wasn't enough to get us the income required to get anywhere near first.

Quote:
its amusing that asc propaganda machine rolls out the same thing every round yet people always buy it
That is because this is how game mechanics works, and it's why last round Apprime didn't dominate (and understanding it is part of our success). Last round three alliances had an opportunity to win once parity with Apprime was reached but in the end they won because once it was open, they just played better politics than the other two.

Quote:
the downplaying of asc's ability here is fantastic, especially saying that theyre small in number due to the fact theyre 15 members less on sandmans. planets outside tag+late signups+shipjumpers will easily make up for that by the mid point of the round.

IF everyone buys the ascendancy propaganda and wars with apprime (interesting that ascendancy are demanding penguins initiate the war here) by the time of late signups when ascendancy get their reinforcements, victory could well be within their grasp.
As you will see from the above, there is no such downplaying because last round we put in quite a classy performance. In fact I'm well aware of the respective abilities of alliances. I just read around the forums as part of my moderating and saw some posts that were based on some false assumptions about the game and analysis from sandmans that I thought was bad. So I just decided to post to debunk some false assumptions based on what people were putting forward rather than make political suggestions. As quite honestly I haven't even asked JBG about politics this round yet.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 19:02   #94
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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That's completely untrue. The galaxy would have defended him, but received no communication or assistance from NewDawn, and it was impossible for the galaxy to defend him alone.
We were told at TP time that the galaxy would not defend him. So if what you said is true, it means that you as galaxy knew in advanced that he was going to be hit by the whole of penguins, and asked ND if they would defend him. This implies that ND told you they would not defend their top planet. I feel sorry for LL then.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 19:09   #95
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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We were told at TP time that the galaxy would not defend him. So if what you said is true, it means that you as galaxy knew in advanced that he was going to be hit by the whole of penguins, and asked ND if they would defend him. This implies that ND told you they would not defend their top planet. I feel sorry for LL then.
What? That doesn't make any sense, and is a complete load of bollocks. The galaxy made no agreements whatsoever about not defending Lukey, and were committed to getting as many top planets as possible. It was fairly given that Lukey probably would receive some incoming, but when and who remained a guess. ND didn't say they wouldn't defend Lukey, they simply said nothing and didn't communicate with the galaxy on any night of incoming, which always made covering him hard.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 19:25   #96
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

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so because this happened last round we can disregard the four previous rounds in a row ascendancy were the winning ally along with the many other winning rounds in its history, and look at it as a flagshipping alliance with more interest in top gal/planet? even light wouldnt say something so silly /o\
You want to say that Ascendancy of the rounds prior to 32 are the same alliance as the current one? Perhaps you'd like to ask around where Elviz and his BG played before 32.
The current Ascendancy are in it's current shape more similar to the early one. They have gone back to their core of players, and not all of them are playing seriously.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
asc should be the concern of any alliance wishing to win this round just as much as apprime.

if vision or penguins want to win they have to defeat apprime and see ascendancy as the realistic threat they could very well be. big picture.

reactionary, short sighted politics of 'LETS GO FOR THE NUMBER BEFORE THEY GET TOO BIG!!1!1!' have been the cause of many allies in recent history to fail
Nice try there. But we both know that even if Ascendancy turned out to be the big threat you paint them to be, then the focus should still be on the #1 alliance, and not on the #6. If Apprime themselves thought Asc to be the biggest threat, they would be pounding them already. (Remember exilition? They hit 1up night after night even after they were out of the top 5 and had shit roids.) That's how this game works. The winning alliance focuses on their top threat, or at least should. I don't think Apprime are soooo shortsighted that they would let Asc alone if they thought them a real threat.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
then you clearly havent been around or paying attention the past few rounds.
Well, if you have been paying more attention, pray tell me how the current Asc differs from last rounds Asc. (Yes, they have gone Xan, and probably are bit more active than last round). Have they recruited more active players? Are you aware of Asc top planets hiding out of tag? What makes them so different than last round, where they were nowhere near contending for #1 alliance?
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 21:37   #97
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

HI!

My observations so far this round might have been coloured. I have not had internet for a while so i have tried to keep myself updated through irc on phone.
I see that Apprime is in the lead, i see Ascendancy on a small number, Vision and P3nguins doing their best but do they have a plan?

So far i am under the impression that only Ascendancy and Apprime play to win, while the others just keep their heads down hoping for the best, and MAYBE get a really cheap shot at 1st. Right now that is not happening because of 2 things.

Apprime
are solid and they are dominating so far. I encourage people to sit down and think over why Apprime is doing so well. Maybe your alliance do need an abnormous block to surivive, but doesnt that mean you will need to keep doing this every round??


Ascandancy
Are playing the underdog role well, and the reason they are small right now is because they are massively building galaxies through organized exiles while staying small enough to fill up the tag with latesignups in the STRONGEST gals later, and the fact they have a few inactives. After tick 400 they will have a bunch of really strong gals which will provide a steady growth with little incs and you will need brute force to take them down. We all know their activity doesnt drop and they will surely not just lie down.


I encourage everyone to think it over when you read Apprime members telling you to attack Ascendancy, and vica versa on these forums.

Alliances should be capable of making their own decissions and not be JBGs lapdog in a round where Ascendancy is actually playing to win! I am not talking about Apprime here because they are obviously in the lead, and have no such position to downplay themselves like Ascendancy do on these forums.

Ascendancy have a plan, which again means they are following the plan and so far i see no reason to why they shouldnt stick to it. They have succeeded on multiple exiles already and have built a few strong gals which will grow quickly


Whatever you decide on, remember that Ascendancy recruited members since last round with 1 thing in mind, which is to win and challenge Apprime. I say let them do it! You all read lokken claiming that their memberbase could walk over Apprimes memberbase anytime.

What i know for sure is that if a block is formed again to bash Apprime, then Ascendancy will grow so fast that we will need to create a new block to fight them down. How the alliance leaders choose to solve the current "situation" is ofcourse up to them, but i suggest you dont fight a war for anyone else then your own members.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 21:45   #98
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

What a load of drivel. Nobody's downplaying anything, we're just not actually first in any sense. Apprime are first in every sense. The idea we've recruited in order to beat apprime is hilarious as well. Like we need to prove something somehow. Your dismissal of every other alliance is pretty entertaining as well. Because if other alliances fight apprime and keep them from running away with the round nobody else bar ascendancy can win?

Can someone with an iota of sense please post on behalf of apprime? If you want I'll start mailing you some arguments you can use. Like

"Apprime may be first right now but Ascendancy have shown themselves to be highly adept at disguising their strength until it's too late to effectively target them."

or

"If other alliances bar Ascendancy get into a war situation it's likely to prove detrimental to all alliances involved and lead to a situation where the winner, whoever that is, has to face a fresh Ascendancy."

maybe even

"But you see JBG has actually developed a new form of temporary mind-control and is just waiting for a good opportunity to spring it on various HC and win the game in the course of a few nights."


Seriously...
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 22:04   #99
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

I just wrote whatever i had on mind on my phone.

Im not posting anything on behalf of anyone, i just happen to read this whole thread today when i was at my parents and JBG you are acting like such a god.
You dont decide on whats good,bad,right or wrong. So please just stop trying to correct everyone. You are using your selfclaimed godly standards when you do so and its really pathetic.

No other alliances have posted that they are playing to win, how can attack me on that when i am absolutely right? and why should i bother to waste time on talking about alliances who are happily walking with their heads in the sand?

Lokken claimed in this thread that Ascendancy members will walk over Apprime members. To me that is the same as saying the fight is between our 2 alliances, so i dont see why you need to keep trying to downplay yourself when you can just pick up the fight yourself.

Basically what i had in mind was that breaking down Apprime now with a huge massive block will just lead to the need for a new block to take down a FRESH ascendancy later. Most likely even stronger then Apprime is now, and history has shown this is virtually impossible.
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Unread 6 Sep 2009, 22:09   #100
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Re: Proposal for the creation of the roundly block against Apprime

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
"Apprime may be first right now but Ascendancy have shown themselves to be highly adept at disguising their strength until it's too late to effectively target them."
"if vision or penguins want to win they have to defeat apprime and see ascendancy as the realistic threat they could very well be. big picture."

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
"If other alliances bar Ascendancy get into a war situation it's likely to prove detrimental to all alliances involved and lead to a situation where the winner, whoever that is, has to face a fresh Ascendancy."
"IF everyone buys the ascendancy propaganda and wars with apprime (interesting that ascendancy are demanding penguins initiate the war here) by the time of late signups when ascendancy get their reinforcements, victory could well be within their grasp."

maybe not as eloquently put, but close enough

last post in this thread as its a waste of time. good luck with the propaganda and politics again this round ascendancy o/
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