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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 12:14   #1
meglamaniac
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Skype

Skype.
I've been looking at this for a while, and I'm now thinking it might soon be the perfect alternative to a landline, especially at uni.
At the moment you get free calls to anyone else using Skype, and you can add credit to your account if you want to dial PSTN (the standard Public Switched Telephone Network) numbers - this service is called SkypeOut. As Skype have Internet -> PSTN gateways in a fair few countries it doesn't matter where you're calling from, just where you're calling to. To call a number in the US is the same price in the US as it is in the UK (about 1.2pence per minute).
There is no setup charge, and no line rental (as there is no line) - Skype makes it's money from the charges for using the PSTN gateways.
Various places are launching USB phones for the service such as this and this so you don't have to look like a call-centre muppet with a headset on either.

The only disadvantage at the moment is that you cannot dial a Skype account from the PSTN (ie. there is no "SkypeIn") but this service is set to launch in summer for a small subscription, and will include things such as Voicemail.

So. Could skype be the perfect solution?
Let's face it, here in the UK line rental for a landline is far from cheap - the lowest NTL offer is £9.50/month and BT's cheapest is £10.50.
BT already offer a VoIP service but it has severe limitations.
A quick comparison of the services in their current state.

BT:
  • Costs £6.50 per month on top of the internet connection charge
  • Only works over broadband
  • Free calls to other users of the service at evenings and weekends
  • Reduced calls to foreign countries when compared with PSTN prices
  • Dial-in PSTN telephone number with voicemail provided
  • Standard VoiP so fiddly to configure, and a pain in the arse with any firewall/nat setup
  • Client/server based (ie. if BTs server fails the whole system fails)
  • Maintainance of servers requires a relatively high monthly charge
  • Poor privacy implications (BT could record/monitor calls, no mention of encryption)

Skype:
  • No monthly charge
  • Works over 56k at PSTN quality, or better quality over broadband
  • Free calls to other users of the service at any time in any country
  • Reduced calls to other countries FROM ANY COUNTRY when compared to PSTN (most major european countries, the US and Austrailia are ~1.2p per minute)
  • No dial-in PSTN telephone number provided
  • P2P (kazaa/bittorent-like) architecture, works out of the box with no user configuration, navigates around firewalls by routing calls to other clients/nodes, will operate on port 80 allowing it to work even in offices where there is no gateway by using the HTTP proxy
  • P2P architecture is very fault tolerant and can reroute calls should a portion of the network fail
  • No servers to maintain, hence no monthly cost
  • Excellent privacy (routing through many nodes, no servers to compromise, end-to-end call encryption)

So, as it stands BT's only advantages are the PSTN number and voicemail, both of which skype will provide this year for a subscription.
I can't see Skype's subscription being anywhere near BT's, as BT have to maintain servers to route calls and to store voicemail, whereas all Skype has to do is store voicemail - and of course there is the major advantage that your skype account goes with you and will work anywhere in the world.

Even if skype were to offer the subscription at BT's £6.50/month charge you could still get 1MB broadband AND skype with a real PSTN number for £24.49 a month in the UK, with free calls to everyone else on skype and cheap ones anywhere else.
Looks like a win-win situation to me...
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 12:27   #2
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Re: Skype

drink Coca-Cola
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 12:45   #3
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Re: Skype

I'm well aware how long it's been around, I was making the point that is now reaching a level of maturity where it will shortly be a viable "real phone" option.
Granted, your point about BT (and landlines in general) is valid.
As for being attached to a computer, well yes that is a limitation but that applies to any VoIP service. But many households have a computer now, and you will note one of the USB phones I linked to was cordless. There will be many more of these coming to market within the next year or so it's not like you're tied down to using a mic and the PC speakers these days.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 12:50   #4
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Re: Skype

Let me add another minus for Skype:

- It fecks up when it comes to full duplex speech

When both people try to speak it mutes one person. This is hugely annoying when you have a rather lively conversation and want to interrupt some or just do the casual "uhuh".
Although last time I used it is many, many moons ago I found this a rather serious issue when having a conversation with someone.

Apart from that I find Skype a very good alternative to landlines, although I have my doubts about the usability in the livingroom as you'd always need to have a computer on and around.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 12:54   #5
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Re: Skype

Really? Hmm. I'm guess that may have been fixed as another plus i forgot to mention was that you can conference call for free with up to 3 other people. It would be a bit daft if they muted the other 3 whenever someone spoke.
And with a cordless phone you wouldn't need to have a computer around (although yes you'd need one on).
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 12:55   #6
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
let me add some stuff to your list

BT
- works when the electricity goes down


Skype
- doesn't
Use hamsters to power the PC up, pfft!
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 14:24   #7
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Re: Skype

I've been using Teamspeak as a make-shift VoIP telephone system and have considered Skype as a possible alternative, but as yet Skype seems overly complicated just for simple communications.

The other downside is that with Teamspeak we can carry our conversations on into games etc, with Skype we can not.

I am looking for possible reasons to move to Skype.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 14:48   #8
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius
why cant you take conversations into games with skype?
Skype is only one-on-one speak whilst teamspeak is many-to-many. You should play games with teamspeak to fully understand it.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:04   #9
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Re: Skype

That and I was thinking also from a technical standpoint. As you say Skype appears to use an IM like interface, which presumably means you have to operate it directly from the interface, and you also do not have the freedom of being able to come and go from conversation as you please. I could not find whther it allows binding of a hotkey for talk, which is useful in games. Also I could not find whether it uses wave in/out or directsound for its audio. Wave in/out requires exclusive access to the soundcard and will not share with other applications, so only one sound source can play at the same time. Directsound allows as many sound buffers as your computer can handle and will automatically mix them all before sending it to your soundcard, which means VoIP apps that use it will confortably co-operate with games without any difficulty.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:06   #10
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Re: Skype

Dudes, theres this brand new system called face2face that I've been using. Basically, I go round to peoples houses, knock on their door and speak to them. I can chat for hours if I want, if their mum is also in the house I can talk to her at the same time, in fact you can have as many people as you want in a face2face conversation.

You can go anywhere in the world and talk with face2face, and the best thing is its FREE!! You dont need servers, broadband or even a telephone - just your mouth and basic vocabulary!

Compare this to BT and Skype, its a no brainer which to go for. I dont think I'll use any other system from now on.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:07   #11
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Re: Skype

I think it probably wouldn't work for that purpose.
It's designed to be a telephony application, whereas Teamspeak is more about broadcast comms on a smaller scale if I understand it correctly.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:07   #12
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Arrow Re: Skype

I've got a REAL alternative to skype:

VoIP.

It's my only phone. I'm using www.sipgate.de.
No monthly fee, I get a number in a German city (800 are available) of my choice. People can call me, and it's free for me. They can call my home town, and it doesn't matter where I are (even abroad), the calls get re-directed via internet.

Calls to other VoIP users are free. Calls to German landlines are 1.7cent/min, to mobiles about 20cent/min. To UK it's 2.7 and 33 cent, and to USA 2.7cent (even mobiles).


About 128kbps upstream AND downstream needed, but average traffic consumption per hour (talking) is 70MB.

I've got a seperate VoIP phone, looks like normal, but has a LAN cable plugged in (coming from my router).



You can get nice adapters that work like routers and have an analogue phone output, but they also have QoS, so your calls get priority while downloading.
I don't need it, I have some great fast big-e-penis-uni-line-bandwidth.


Also I've got a voice mailbox and get everything per email including wave-attachments.



The only positive thing is: Cheapness. And maybe geekiness ^^

Drawbacks are: Complicated to set up (I know how to do it, portforwarding in router etc, but do other people know?).
Doesn't work all the time (sometimes when I call somebody, it doesn't work. About 1 in 20 times).
Speech quality is BAD. Worse than mobiles. Depends on other traffic. But said full duplex problems. Sometimes lag.

NOT ready for the masses, defenitely.


And once you RELY on the internet for a phone, it gets annoying. Really. Sooner or later the internet will NOT work, and you're "cut off". Even worse than with power. When was the last power failure? Doesn't happen that often. But routing problems, internet going down, ISP having trouble: More often...



Apparently people that know my VoIP-speech-quality say that Skype is better, but I usually think its comparable.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:08   #13
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Re: Skype

no it isnt.

if i wanted to talk to my cousin in florida it would cost me several hundred pounds in both air fare and taxi ride.


your a liar.
i dont like liars.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:09   #14
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
That and I was thinking also from a technical standpoint. As you say Skype appears to use an IM like interface, which presumably means you have to operate it directly from the interface, and you also do not have the freedom of being able to come and go from conversation as you please. I could not find whther it allows binding of a hotkey for talk, which is useful in games. Also I could not find whether it uses wave in/out or directsound for its audio. Wave in/out requires exclusive access to the soundcard and will not share with other applications, so only one sound source can play at the same time. Directsound allows as many sound buffers as your computer can handle and will automatically mix them all before sending it to your soundcard, which means VoIP apps that use it will confortably co-operate with games without any difficulty.
Playing Winamp whilst using Skype worked when I tried it. So my guess is that it should work fine with games too.
I'm not sure about the "hotkey to send" thingy.
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:12   #15
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Re: Skype

It would appear that Germany has better "standard" VoIP deals than the UK
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Unread 23 Feb 2005, 15:14   #16
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
no it isnt.

if i wanted to talk to my cousin in florida it would cost me several hundred pounds in both air fare and taxi ride.

Your cousin probably moved to florida so he would have to speak to you.
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Unread 24 Feb 2005, 12:25   #17
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
Your cousin probably moved to florida so he would have to speak to you.
you are sunday8pm aren´t you
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Unread 24 Feb 2005, 13:03   #18
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Re: Skype

One of my rock friends was propositioned for cybersex0r by a 27yo swedish chick on skype

it kind of wins
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Unread 24 Feb 2005, 13:05   #19
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summanus
One of my rock friends was propositioned for cybersex0r by a 27yo swedish chick on skype

it kind of wins
Atleast that's better than over MSN or IRC.


Not that I have any experience with that...


No really!
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Unread 24 Feb 2005, 13:23   #20
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
no it isnt.

if i wanted to talk to my cousin in florida it would cost me several hundred pounds in both air fare and taxi ride.
Swim and walk you lazy fk :P
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Unread 25 Feb 2005, 14:54   #21
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
no it isnt.

if i wanted to talk to my cousin in florida it would cost me several hundred pounds in both air fare and taxi ride.


your a liar.
i dont like liars.
You could always pack yourself into a freight case, and have DHL or UPS pick you up, and get delivered to your cousins place in Florida. It`s illegal, but it`s been done before. Save loads of dosh :-)
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Unread 25 Feb 2005, 15:03   #22
BesigedB
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Let me add another minus for Skype:

- It fecks up when it comes to full duplex speech
I've been all night with two other people and never had that problem. Infact, it was better than any phone.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 14:37   #23
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Re: Skype

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Originally Posted by JetLinus
Speech quality is BAD. Worse than mobiles. Depends on other traffic. But said full duplex problems. Sometimes lag.
Properly configured with a decent ISP and Asterisk as the PBX the quality is perfect, at least with the Cisco 7960 I use to talk to our Mumbai office. There is a noticeable lag (about half a second) over that distance but the ping time to there is horrible anyway.

It all depends on the quality and configuration of your kit. VOIP is still something of a black art and I certainly don't understand all the ins and outs but our comms team do* and that's all that really counts.




* They do now, the initial setup was fairly ropey.
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:09   #24
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by idimmu
i looked at Asterix earlier but I think I'm going to go with Skype as it's pretty much hassle free and works quite well, i spoke to queball earlier today <3 plus you can easily just chat with anyone on skype rather than go through the fun of getting them hooked up to your pbx
You can talk with anyone on VOIP too thanks to the magic of DNS and SVR/ENUM records, all you need to know is the address (e.g. sip:[email protected]) and be able to enter it (not so easy on a numeric phone keypad but OpenEnum is providing a way to do this while the rest of the world argues over the politics of the spec). Unfortunately Skype doesn't and (as I understand it) can't be made to work with SIP and as SIP is pretty much the standard for 'real' VOIP I think Skype will lose out eventually.

Of course, having your internal phone directory data pulled directly from Exchange using LDAP is also a rather cool feature of the more mainstream systems (does Skype do this? It shouldn't be too hard to implement in the client).
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Unread 26 Feb 2005, 15:30   #25
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Re: Skype

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
Your cousin probably moved to florida so he would have to speak to you.


i didnt know him when he moved.

infact

I WASNT EVEN BORN!





you lose....
:<<<<
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