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11 May 2003, 18:11
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#51
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
You need more than one defender.
Silvestre and Brown don't cut it.
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Nevilla, O'shea, Ferdinand. Silvestre(Who gets in the french national team) and Brown(Whose still young) will do well as backup.
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11 May 2003, 18:12
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#52
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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I suppose Silvestre is just-about-okay-ish-almost. But Own-Goal Brown is a joke.
Arsenal have the same problem.
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11 May 2003, 18:12
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#53
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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It's similar to Schumacher in F1.
He's always winning races, but is that through his own skill or the superiority of the car and team that supports him.
RvN is undoubtedly an excellent striker in his current spot. The question is 'would he be as good a striker had he not the support he currently enjoys'.
It ain't black and white.
__________________
You're now playing ketchup
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11 May 2003, 18:13
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#54
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
It was out side the 6yard box for a start. It was a good goal nonetheless. Who cares if it was nt a 25yard drive. It was a goal. He scored a hat trick. Thats what a striker should do. Yes, he has a good midfield behind him, but so what? You can make anything sound easy. I mean, all beckham has to do it kick a ball to Van nistelrooy. Easy right? RvN is the best striker in the world. 45 goals in a season, thats unheard of. You seem to be the only one who does nt see the mans undeniable quality.
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i think hes a clinical finisher and a good striker.But hes not half the player the media would want you to think. Real Madrid, an unmissable header from 2 yards to score uniteds goal and its RUUD VAN NISTELROOY FIGHTS AND CLAWS UNITED BACK INTO THE GAME - come on, a 2 yard header - he did his bit, but he hardly proclaimed world peace. He scores the chances mostly because he is given the chances.
And united could have done even better this season if he didnt tend to be greedy
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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11 May 2003, 18:14
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#55
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
The defender and the central mid indeed, but i hope you meant "forward" by striker.
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I guess. Either someone like Vassell who has bags of pace and can play off Van nistelrooy, or someone like Ronaldinho who will play as an attacking midfielder. Striker is the least desperate position we need to fill. Midfielder is key, Keanes too old now, Makele from Madrid would be good.
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11 May 2003, 18:14
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#56
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by pablissimo
RvN is undoubtedly an excellent striker in his current spot. The question is 'would he be as good a striker had he not the support he currently enjoys'..
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It's the same with all strikers. I bet Beattie would get the same or more than van Nistelrooy, if he played at Man Utd.
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11 May 2003, 18:16
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#57
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
I suppose Silvestre is just-about-okay-ish-almost. But Own-Goal Brown is a joke.
Arsenal have the same problem.
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Silvestre had a bit of a nightmare first season, making a few mistakes. He's definately more of an attacking defender, but he's good in the air, and has lots of pace(Something which people dont seem to notice).
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11 May 2003, 18:16
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#58
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
Midfielder is key, Keanes too old now, Makele from Madrid would be good.
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Could you afford Makalele? And what makes you think he'd rather be playing at Man Utd than Real Madrid (where he is getting first team football), who are the better team?
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11 May 2003, 18:17
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#59
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
It's the same with all strikers. I bet Beattie would get the same or more than van Nistelrooy, if he played at Man Utd.
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Indeed. Beattie is directly comparable to Ruud, and hes been probably the best forward in the premiership. Only 2 goals less than ruud, and only 1 goal less than henry. Hell of a lot less penalties, and hes scored some crackers.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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11 May 2003, 18:18
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#60
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Plus he's got little in terms of support behind him.
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11 May 2003, 18:18
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#61
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
He scores the chances mostly because he is given the chances.
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Thats just it. He gets a chance he scores it. Thats not something many strikers do well. In fact, thats almost the definition of what a striker should do. Fortunately, he does also make chances for himself. His run against Fulham for instance was hardly put on a plate for him. He has strength and pace. He turns half chances into goals.
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11 May 2003, 18:19
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#62
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
He has ... pace.
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lol
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11 May 2003, 18:20
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#63
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
Thats just it. He gets a chance he scores it. Thats not something many strikers do well. In fact, thats almost the definition of what a striker should do. Fortunately, he does also make chances for himself. His run against Fulham for instance was hardly put on a plate for him. He has strength and pace. He turns half chances into goals.
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His run against fulham was good (although the defending was terrible)
But its the obvious example, and its not backed up by similar goals.
And he doesnt always score the chances, but the media glosses nicely over that.
If i was the choice of Henry or Van Nistelrooy (assuming the other 10 positions were filled with null equally skilled players) I would choose Henry, every day of the week. 24 goals from a "forward" not a striker aint bad.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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11 May 2003, 18:21
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#64
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
Could you afford Makalele? And what makes you think he'd rather be playing at Man Utd than Real Madrid (where he is getting first team football), who are the better team?
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Well, United are by far the richest team in the world. The question is not "Could we afford him?", but "Is he for sale at a good price?"
Why would he come to United? Money. Apparently, he wants a better deal from Real who are reluctant to cough up.
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11 May 2003, 18:22
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#65
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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hes the most likely to be replaced player in the whole real madrid team
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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11 May 2003, 18:22
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#66
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
The question is not "Could we afford him?", but "Is he for sale at a good price?".
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That's what I meant 
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11 May 2003, 18:23
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#67
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
His run against fulham was good (although the defending was terrible)
But its the obvious example, and its not backed up by similar goals.
And he doesnt always score the chances, but the media glosses nicely over that.
If i was the choice of Henry or Van Nistelrooy (assuming the other 10 positions were filled with null equally skilled players) I would choose Henry, every day of the week. 24 goals from a "forward" not a striker aint bad.
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But he has the Arsenal midfield behind him. Its the "Favour the underdog mentality" thats going on here. If Henry was at United and Van nistelrooy at Arsenal, RvN would be better. Its the same thing that happened with Cole when he came to United. Same happened to Barthez(Schmeichel best keeper? Nah, Barthez is better. Whats that, Barthez coming to United? Oh, he sucks anyway.)
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11 May 2003, 18:24
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#68
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Henry can hardly be called 'the underdog'.
And 'the entire Arsenal team behind him' is different. Many of Henry's goals are made by Henry, which is different to the way van Nistelrooy plays.
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11 May 2003, 18:25
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#69
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
hes the most likely to be replaced player in the whole real madrid team
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By who? Makelele is Reals only defensive midfielder, part of there 3man defence. Apart from Viera, who is unlikely to leave, who would Real buy to replace him? If there was a good player up for grabs like him, United would get him instead of Makelele.
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11 May 2003, 18:27
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#70
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
Henry can hardly be called 'the underdog'.
And 'the entire Arsenal team behind him' is different. Many of Henry's goals are made by Henry, which is different to the way van Nistelrooy plays.
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United won. Arsenal did nt. United have dominated English footbal for years. Henry has nt made his goals any more than Nistelrooy has. Through ball to Henry down the right, outpace defender, beat keeper is no different to most of Nistelrooys goals(Only he uses strength and a good turn to beat the defender as opposed to pace.)
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11 May 2003, 18:29
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#71
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
But he has the Arsenal midfield behind him. Its the "Favour the underdog mentality" thats going on here. If Henry was at United and Van nistelrooy at Arsenal, RvN would be better. Its the same thing that happened with Cole when he came to United. Same happened to Barthez(Schmeichel best keeper? Nah, Barthez is better. Whats that, Barthez coming to United? Oh, he sucks anyway.)
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Henry an underdog to Van nistelrooy?
I think not I wanted Man utd to win this year because once liverpool and newcy were out of contention, they have been the better of the top 2. Plus arsenal have a lot of diving scumbags etc but we wont go into that here.
But either way, Henry is the best player in the premiership by quite a way. For my money, hes among the top 5 in the world. Id rather have him than any attacker in the world to be honest.
As to makalele, i think there are a hell of a lot of better defensive midfielders. He is a weak link tbh, and i dont think people should assume simply because he plays for Real Madrid that he is any use.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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11 May 2003, 18:31
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#72
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
United won. Arsenal did nt. United have dominated English footbal for years. Henry has nt made his goals any more than Nistelrooy has. Through ball to Henry down the right, outpace defender, beat keeper is no different to most of Nistelrooys goals(Only he uses strength and a good turn to beat the defender as opposed to pace.)
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BS
Henry even takes the corners for arsenal. And he has scored goals starting just outside his own box. He beats them with pace, power, touch, and deft finishing. I cant think of a goal Ruud has ever scored that compares with the average Henry Goal
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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11 May 2003, 18:31
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#73
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
As to makalele, i think there are a hell of a lot of better defensive midfielders. He is a weak link tbh, and i dont think people should assume simply because he plays for Real Madrid that he is any use.
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I rarely (read: never) watch Spanish football, but I thought he looked fairly good against Man Utd.
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11 May 2003, 18:33
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#74
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
I rarely (read: never) watch Spanish football, but I thought he looked fairly good against Man Utd.
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Hes good, hes not spectacular. There are better players currently in the premiership in the same position.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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11 May 2003, 18:46
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#75
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Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
A penalty is not a guaranteed goal. Just ask Michael Owen.
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Or any Dutch player, for that matter 
By the way Deffeh, would you rather have a striker who scores 20 magnificent goals a season, or one who scores 40 simple ones?
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11 May 2003, 18:49
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#76
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
By the way Deffeh, would you rather have a striker who scores 20 magnificent goals a season, or one who scores 40 simple ones?
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If all your players just score tap-ins, you're ****ed.
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11 May 2003, 18:56
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#77
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
BS
Henry even takes the corners for arsenal. And he has scored goals starting just outside his own box. He beats them with pace, power, touch, and deft finishing. I cant think of a goal Ruud has ever scored that compares with the average Henry Goal
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RvN beats them with Pace, Power, Clinical finishing and a great turn. He does nt even take Free kicks for United. Its easy to put a string of adjectives together. Henry, quite simply is not as good as Van nistelrooy.
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11 May 2003, 18:57
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#78
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Aquafresh
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: [^-^]
Posts: 261
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
If all your players just score tap-ins, you're ****ed.
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But thats bull**** in itself. Van nistelrooy does nt score many "Tap ins". Just because there within the box does nt mean there easy.
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11 May 2003, 18:57
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#79
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deffeh
RUUD VAN NISTELROOY FIGHTS AND CLAWS UNITED BACK INTO THE GAME
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Quite frankly, they were right. He was the only united player with any drive or passion that night, the only one running after the ball, attacking the player with possession.
Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
Thats just it. He gets a chance he scores it.
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Unlike Mr Kevin 'Formerly known as 'super'' Philips, who's going to be gracing a Portsmouth strip in the near future folks!
Now replyings out of the way!
Sunderlands are champions of The Barcleycard Premiership
Reserve League!
You want to know why Kevin Kyle's been getting starts recently? He wasn't good enough for the reserves so they dropped him to the 'first team'.
And watch the comedy antics of John Oster!
He's like Ryan Giggs!
He plays for Wales!
He's an attacking midfielder!
He can beat players!
Unfortunately, he's also like the Giggs of midseason in that
He screws everything up!
Best example being when he took the ball past 3 or 4 arsenal players, only to have a shot when clear through on goal that, if he wasn't the most forward player, would usually have been called a cross.
Poor lad, he tries, you know.
Marvel! At Gavin McCann's amazing ability to rile every single player he faces!
Gape as he does a two footed lunge on Parlour and gets away with it!
Be filled with shock as he gets all shirty with Ljungberg!
Be not at all surprised when he gets booked!
And so on, thoughout the entire team (ignoring Thornton, who I'll come to later), till we get to Thommy Sorensen.
Great keeper.
Very popular, nice touch at the end when he basically stripped off and threw his clothes into the crowd.
Trouble is... why is it that for the first 15 minutes the post made more saves than he did?
We come at last to Sean Thornton.
Described as a 'promising young talent' in the Match Day Program back in September, made his debut in January due to injuries to McAteer and Piper, and he's our ****ing player of the year. Shows how little effort the others put in.
However, Thornton is a touch of class (an Arca/Reyna/Medina/Thornton [assuming the Argies get their acts together] midfield is worthy of Europe at least, let alone D1) and in case any of you doubt his potential, Gianfranco Zola went as far as hunting him down, following him into the visitor's dressing room at Stamford Bridge in order to get his shirt.
Thornton for Man United and England!
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11 May 2003, 18:58
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#80
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Up yours
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mighty Scotland
Posts: 491
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I see a lot of hurt in you MrL
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11 May 2003, 19:00
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#81
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Up yours
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mighty Scotland
Posts: 491
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Quote:
Originally posted by Haer
Henry, quite simply is not as good as Van nistelrooy.
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When loyalty clouds Judgement V1.2
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11 May 2003, 19:02
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#82
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
If all your players just score tap-ins, you're ****ed.
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Fortunately for United, RvN doesn't just score tap-ins.
According to Fergy (who I only believe because the evidence is there) he's been working for hours on the training field developing the 'Henry' side of his game. And given his recent performances, I think it's working.
Although the best striker in the world at the moment is probably Vieri. Inter (I believe) were top of the goal scoring charts in Italy, and with fewer chances than anyone but the bottom 3. If Vieri played for United, he'd score two thousand a season.
ps.
Pop Quiz! Only Englishman to ever win the European Golden Boot!
Also the top scorer at the club where he acheived it for each of his seasons there.
(No cheating now)
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11 May 2003, 19:04
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#83
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Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
If all your players just score tap-ins, you're ****ed.
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If all your players score tap-ins, you're making lots of goals.
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11 May 2003, 19:05
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#84
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leshy
If all your players score tap-ins, you're making lots of goals.
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Not with no creativity.
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11 May 2003, 19:07
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#85
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Pop Quiz! Only Englishman to ever win the European Golden Boot!
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Since you are a Sunderland fan, I'm going to guess Kevin Phillips.
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11 May 2003, 19:09
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#86
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The Bad Guy
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: East, East, East London
Posts: 2,107
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Beatie has had ONE good season, lets not build him up to be a world better just yet eh?
__________________
I wear my sunglasses at night.
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11 May 2003, 19:10
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#87
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
Since you are a Sunderland fan, I'm going to guess Kevin Phillips.
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Oh yes!
Top premiership scorer this season with SIX!
(For sunderland. If we're counting own goals, six wouldn't even get him in the top 10)
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11 May 2003, 19:12
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#88
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Oh yes!
Top premiership scorer this season with SIX!
(For sunderland. If we're counting own goals, six wouldn't even get him in the top 10)
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I obviously misunderstood
Quote:
from here
The statistics are there for all to see. Phillips is one of only three players to have racked up 30 goals in a single Premiership season - that feat made him the first Englishman ever to win the European Golden Boot trophy in 1999/2000.
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11 May 2003, 19:13
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#89
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rids
Beatie has had ONE good season, lets not build him up to be a world better just yet eh?
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Shearer then.
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11 May 2003, 19:15
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#90
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
I obviously misunderstood
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He won the European Golden Boot when he scored 30 a few years back.
I was just illustrating his fall from grace.
Or 'going ****e' as it's usually known.
[edit]
You know's fault it is?
Kevin Keegan's.
Ever since he said that Philips needed to be more of an all round player than just a goal scorer to get in the England team, he's tried to be more like Henry is nowadays, dropping off the ball, getting into wide positions and not GETTING IN THE BOX WHERE HE BELONGS.
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11 May 2003, 19:20
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#91
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Ever since he said that Philips needed to be more of an all round player than just a goal scorer to get in the England team, he's tried to be more like Henry is nowadays, dropping off the ball, getting into wide positions and not GETTING IN THE BOX WHERE HE BELONGS.
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LYNCH KEEGAN
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11 May 2003, 19:22
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#92
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
LYNCH KEEGAN
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NO! If we do that we might not break Manchester City's attendence record in the 2nd Division!
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11 May 2003, 19:24
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#93
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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HEY, PEOPLE, YOUR MISSING AN IMPORTANT POINT HERE
Doncaster Rovers have gone up \o/
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11 May 2003, 19:25
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#94
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Loughborough University
Posts: 236
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I'd rather have van Nistelrooy in my team than Henry. He scores more goals - without scoring the goals you have no chance of winning matches. His positioning is better than Henry's, hence all these "tap-in" goals which some people only think he scores.
Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
Yeah but the only reason he scored so many is because he's played less games than Henry!
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lol - shows that van Nistelrooy is better then
Your just jealous that Man Utd have someone who will score 40+ goals a season for them, when most other teams in the world don't. He may get good service, he still has to finish it off though.
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11 May 2003, 19:25
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#95
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
HEY, PEOPLE, YOUR MISSING AN IMPORTANT POINT HERE
Doncaster Rovers have gone up \o/
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See you season after next!
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11 May 2003, 19:26
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#96
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rommel
lol - shows that van Nistelrooy is better then
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I was taking the piss out of Wenger.
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11 May 2003, 19:27
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#97
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rommel
lol - shows that van Nistelrooy is better then
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You're missing the point.
Arsene Wenger claims that RvN scored more goals than Henry because Henry had played more games.
www.welovearsenewenger.com ahoy!
Such fine claims as when he said last week that Arsenal were still the best team in England, despite losing the Premiership by 5 points.
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11 May 2003, 19:28
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#98
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Quote:
Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
Doncaster Rovers have gone up \o/
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Hoorah! You return so we can hammer you like we used to. (unless we somehow beat Lincoln 3-0 at home)
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11 May 2003, 19:31
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#99
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Loughborough University
Posts: 236
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
You're missing the point.
Arsene Wenger claims that RvN scored more goals than Henry because Henry had played more games.
www.welovearsenewenger.com ahoy!
Such fine claims as when he said last week that Arsenal were still the best team in England, despite losing the Premiership by 5 points.
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didn't he also say that the CL proved that Arsenal were a better team than Man Utd? heh
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11 May 2003, 19:32
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#100
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rommel
didn't he also say that the CL proved that Arsenal were a better team than Man Utd? heh
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He also said that Arsenal would go unbeaten this season, and that Pascal Cygan was a quality signing.
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