Planetarion Forums

CrashTester · 21 Jul 2003, 12:05

So, I have an opinion which may not conform to the majority of others and this causes people of dubious intelligence to label me a 'troll'. But thats to be expected when you hang around people who have shoe sizes which match their IQ.

Then to make things even worse, a certain mod join in with this name calling and 'singling out' buy adding a silly and unnecessary comment into the title of a thread I posted earlier.

Quite frankly, I expect better of the people given authority to moderate this board.

It not right to label and make fun of someone just because of their opinion and its bad enough when ordinary posters do it but its part worse when moderators join in.

JammyJim, do you find it acceptable to have people board who assist in targetting individuals in this way, mereley because their opinion differs from the majority? I dont.

W · 21 Jul 2003, 12:20

Some mods are and will remain twats. They think that since they've somehow been judged responsible and adult enough to wield the power of a moderator, that they're close to unimpeachable. Unfortuneately they're right.

21 Jul 2003, 12:26

Sadly, mod abuse on these boards are excessive.

And, as W said, they get away with it.

Bloomers III · 21 Jul 2003, 12:26

KaneED · 21 Jul 2003, 12:29

PM JJ and Ashknight if there's a problem, they'll sort it hopefully.

21 Jul 2003, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by KaneED
PM JJ and Ashknight if there's a problem, they'll sort it hopefully.

Problem is the 'friends of friends' threatment.

If MrL/Kurashima was to start a gimmick, it would just be cool and witty, but since John Doe does it, it's stupid and boring.

Notice the double standards..

Radical Edward · 21 Jul 2003, 12:36

mod bashing again... stuff really does go in cycles doesn't it?

Bloomers III · 21 Jul 2003, 12:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Radical Edward
mod bashing

with me it's a constant thing.....oh sorry I meant bishop bashing. HAHAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Dead_Meat · 21 Jul 2003, 13:42

You trolled better in the other thread.

This is just daft.

JonnyBGood · 21 Jul 2003, 13:54

Covered in advance guys.

This is not a democracy.

Nusselt · 21 Jul 2003, 14:08

actually mistar CT as usual it isnt really about what you said or the opinions you have but rather the cack way in which they were expressed. Ive found PA GD to be actually very tolerant to different ideas, and the mods and the GD posters are open to well constructed/thoughtout views. Saying that you went to cuba and wanted to shake the hands of the guards guarding the terrorist scum isnt either.

CrashTester · 21 Jul 2003, 14:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Nusselt
actually mistar CT as usual it isnt really about what you said or the opinions you have but rather the cack way in which they were expressed. Ive found PA GD to be actually very tolerant to different ideas, and the mods and the GD posters are open to well constructed/thoughtout views. Saying that you went to cuba and wanted to shake the hands of the guards guarding the terrorist scum isnt either.

Whether people like it or not that is my opinion and the way I expressed that was spot on. You have been able to recite it without error, which I am pleased to say.

You see, just because I prefer not to write a 500 word essay with links backing my reasons for my opinion doesnt mean it is any less valid, and it certainly doesnt deserve name calling. Does it?

JonnyBGood · 21 Jul 2003, 14:17

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester
You see, just because I prefer not to write a 500 word essay with links backing my reasons for my opinion doesnt mean it is any less valid, and it certainly doesnt deserve name calling. Does it?

Yes it does, and if you're allowed freedom of speech so is everyone else. If you express an opinion in an online forum you have to expect that if everybody thinks you and your post are total shiet they're going to tell you. This is not an AOL chatroom.

21 Jul 2003, 14:19

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Yes it does, and if you're allowed freedom of speech so is everyone else. If you express an opinion in an online forum you have to expect that if everybody thinks you and your post are total shiet they're going to tell you. This is not an AOL chatroom.

Fair enought, but you should rise above this as you are moderators. It's like letting a judge participate as a judge in a trial towards himself.

JonnyBGood · 21 Jul 2003, 14:23

Quote:

Originally posted by BarbieKen
Fair enought, but you should rise above this as you are moderators. It's like letting a judge participate as a judge in a trial towards himself.

I'm not an admin, and I will not force anybody to do anything that they do not wish to do.

CrashTester · 21 Jul 2003, 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Yes it does, and if you're allowed freedom of speech so is everyone else. If you express an opinion in an online forum you have to expect that if everybody thinks you and your post are total shiet they're going to tell you. This is not an AOL chatroom.

Except 'a mod' isnt everyone else and should not therefore provolke people into having a negative reaction towards other posters.

That isnt what you are here for.

If people dont like what I or anyone else has to say, they are free to click ignore.

I dont have a problem with posters calling me what they like in public or in private, I will give as good as I get and that kinda nullifies your argument. What I do object to is moderators abusing their powers to prompt other posters into viewing others in a negative way. Its unnecessary and wrong. I'd expect even someone like you to understand that.

Fifth_teletubbie · 21 Jul 2003, 14:26

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester

You see, just because I prefer not to write a 500 word essay with links backing my reasons for my opinion doesnt mean it is any less valid

ROFLMAO

Dead_Meat · 21 Jul 2003, 14:33

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester
What I do object to is moderators abusing their powers to prompt other posters into viewing others in a negative way.

You obviously don't read the forums enough.

No-one pays any attention to what I say and the idea that people are prompted by mods into having opinions is utterly laughable.

HEY KIDS, I HEAR TAKING HEROIN IS COOL AND GETS YOU LOTS OF FRIENDS, I TAKE IT MYSELF LOTS AND LOTS SO IF YOU WANT TO BE COOL AND HIP AND HAPPENING LIKE THIS HERE MOD, YOU SHOULD TRY IT TOO....

JonnyBGood · 21 Jul 2003, 14:34

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester
Except 'a mod' isnt everyone else and should not therefore provolke people into having a negative reaction towards other posters.

That isnt what you are here for.

If people dont like what I or anyone else has to say, they are free to click ignore.

I dont have a problem with posters calling me what they like in public or in private, I will give as good as I get and that kinda nullifies your argument. What I do object to is moderators abusing their powers to prompt other posters into viewing others in a negative way. Its unnecessary and wrong. I'd expect even someone like you to understand that.

I don't quite understand. Were we granted special powers to coerce other posters into viewing certain people in a negative way while I was gone? To be completely honest I haven't a ****ing clue what you think we do in our spare time. If you call me a ****ing spastic when I do something stupid I'm not going to close your account and get you IP banned and I don't think any of the other mods would. When I agreed to be a mod (both times) I don't remember a 'thou shalt not post anything which could be misconstrued as remotely controversial' rule.

21 Jul 2003, 14:45

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I'm not an admin, and I will not force anybody to do anything that they do not wish to do.

Noone said that. Read, think, write.

CrashTester · 21 Jul 2003, 14:53

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I don't quite understand. Were we granted special powers to coerce other posters into viewing certain people in a negative way while I was gone? To be completely honest I haven't a ****ing clue what you think we do in our spare time. If you call me a ****ing spastic when I do something stupid I'm not going to close your account and get you IP banned and I don't think any of the other mods would. When I agreed to be a mod (both times) I don't remember a 'thou shalt not post anything which could be misconstrued as remotely controversial' rule.

Dude, dont get rattled. Its really simple.

If people want to think of me as a piece of sh*t that is fine, they can call me that in public if they wish and I will be happy to tell them what I think of them in return.

If people dont think Im a piece of sh*t, I dont think it is right that any moderator uses the edit option to announce to the whole forum that i am a troll, as what happened earlier.

Its not a special feature, its the plain old edit option.

I dont care if a moderator thinks im a piece of sh*t, so long as my posts are treated like everyone else's and Im only repremanded when Im in the wrong.

I dont care what you do in your spare time and more than I care what the security guards down stairs do in their spare time. It's of no interest to me whatsoever.

Its refreshing to hear that I am able to call you a f*cking spastic without worrying whether you are going to close my account and IP ban me. Thats just the way it should be, since in my experience most moderators are f*cking spastics.

JonnyBGood · 21 Jul 2003, 14:54

Quote:

Originally posted by BarbieKen
Noone said that. Read, think, write.

I was pointing out you're talking to the wrong person. Any and all complaints/suggestions concerning mods should go to either JJ or Ashy.

Leshy · 21 Jul 2003, 14:56

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester
I dont think it is right that any moderator uses the edit option to announce to the whole forum that i am a troll

Don't worry. Everyone already came to that conclusion long before Dead_Meat announced it.

JonnyBGood · 21 Jul 2003, 15:01

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester
If people dont think Im a piece of sh*t, I dont think it is right that any moderator uses the edit option to announce to the whole forum that i am a troll, as what happened earlier.

Its not a special feature, its the plain old edit option.

I dont care if a moderator thinks im a piece of sh*t, so long as my posts are treated like everyone else's and Im only repremanded when Im in the wrong.

You are treated like everyone else, and excuse me but you're lucky that thread wasn't closed or deleted. In case you're unaware this board has a "no trolling" clause in the rules. Thus threads which are considered by a mod to be "trolling threads" may be closed/deleted/edited as they so wish. If you wish to debate whether that thread was a troll or not you can, as I said above, take it up with JJ or Ashy.

CrashTester · 21 Jul 2003, 15:23

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
You are treated like everyone else, and excuse me but you're lucky that thread wasn't closed or deleted. In case you're unaware this board has a "no trolling" clause in the rules. Thus threads which are considered by a mod to be "trolling threads" may be closed/deleted/edited as they so wish. If you wish to debate whether that thread was a troll or not you can, as I said above, take it up with JJ or Ashy.

Im fully aware of the ill defined 'no trolling' clause and what I am trying to say to you and anyone else is that these are my opinions no matter how different they are to yours or theirs no matter how I express them.

If one moderator announces that 'this thread is a troll thread' then people will look on that as some kind of definition and Im forever labelled as such. Thats abuse.

If I thought I would get anywhere with JJ I would take it up with him, but we are talking about a man who has so far been incapable of definining this very topic and I know the reaction I will get.

So I thought I'd bring it here as a discussion.

JonnyBGood · 21 Jul 2003, 15:31

Quote:

Originally posted by CrashTester
Im fully aware of the ill defined 'no trolling' clause and what I am trying to say to you and anyone else is that these are my opinions no matter how different they are to yours or theirs no matter how I express them.

If one moderator announces that 'this thread is a troll thread' then people will look on that as some kind of definition and Im forever labelled as such. Thats abuse.

If I thought I would get anywhere with JJ I would take it up with him, but we are talking about a man who has so far been incapable of definining this very topic and I know the reaction I will get.

The reason we have mods and not an automated moderating machine is because cases arise which require the ability of a mod to recognise and differentiate between different individual cases (ie clause one). If you post a porn link you've posted a porn link. If you've posted a troll thread you've posted a troll thread. I've posted a fair few I imagine since I joined this forum, if this makes me a troll so ****ing what? People aren't told what to think by the mods. If your thread is a troll thread that means you've posted a troll thread as I said, it does not necessarily mean you are a troll. That's for everyone to decide on their own.

Everyone has an opinion. However if my opinion is that black people are all ****ing wankers and should **** off back to whatever ****ing ****hole they crawled out of that's racism. If my opinion is that anyone who posts a thread using the word 'about' are faggot loving homosexuals whose parents should all die for the crrime of having sexual relations with a monkey that's flaming. If my opinion is that prisoners currently unconvicted of a crime should be abused by their guards that's trolling. That's my opinion and the fact I hold those opinions are part of the reason I'm a mod here. Most mods have relatively similar opinions because of the very fact that they were picked because of those opinions.

The trolling clause is ill defined because you choose not to acknowledge and instead to disagree with it. It does remain though, and it does exist. We're here to interpret it.

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 15:39

Quote:

Originally posted by Dead_Meat
HEY KIDS, I HEAR TAKING HEROIN IS COOL

Posting "If I told you to try heroin, would you do it?" retrospectively is one thing. Actually posting an imperative in the present tense without any sort of sarcasm indicator is likely to get you sued.

Dead_Meat · 21 Jul 2003, 15:42

Sued? By who? The Internet police or little Johnny's parents in ten years time when he dies of an overdose?

Don't be silly.

Leshy · 21 Jul 2003, 15:43

HEY KIDS, I HEAR SUEING IS NOT COOL

Problem solved.

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 15:50

Irresponsible behaviour from someone I'd expect to know better, DM.

Anyway:

Jonny is right to draw a distinction between a troll, and a user who makes a troll post. It's also true that just because one is entitled to have an opinion, it does not neccessarily follow that the opinion is automatically valid or suitable to be expressed on a public board that anybody can access.

However, I have to agree with crashtester that mods should not be poking fun at members for their own amusement by changing the attributes of a thread. Making a title more descriptive is one thing - but changing it to degrade a forum member in front of their peers is not the sort of behaviour I would tolerate from any of the mods on the boards I administer.

Mods should have the insight and initiative to interpret the vague trolling clause, and make full use of their discretionary powers, but above all they should be impartial as the name Moderator itself implies. Otherwise there is no point in having them.

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 15:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Leshy
HEY KIDS, I HEAR SUEING IS NOT COOL
Problem solved.

lol

Interesting approach.

queball · 21 Jul 2003, 15:56

I thought it was quite imaginative of DM. Like the guys who made the model of some Legoland employee with his arm in a sling. Yeah, it might have been offensive, but it was cool.

Chojin · 21 Jul 2003, 16:00

It's nice that CrashTester gets this sort of support but when I rant at the mods for abusing their powers nobody bothers.

Edit: As a point of note, though, I now fully support the moderators. Being the crap poster that he is, I'm all for editing CrashTester's message content.

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 16:03

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
I thought it was quite imaginative of DM. Like the guys who made the model of some Legoland employee with his arm in a sling. Yeah, it might have been offensive, but it was cool.

Most countries have strict laws against publishing that sort of comment. There'll also be legal precedent for determining whether or not the author had the right to 'decide' if there were people in the expected audience stupid enough to think it was actual advice.

Those Lego guys at Windsor must be a bit crap really - they got the sling on the wrong arm ffs. I can see why the guy was offended.

queball · 21 Jul 2003, 16:06

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
Most countries have strict laws against publishing that sort of comment. There'll also be legal precedent for determining whether or not the author had the right to 'decide' if there were people in the expected audience stupid enough to think it was actual advice.

The thread title editing thing I mean. I thoroughly recommend trying heroin to anyone who does not have an addictive personality and can be sure of the hygiene.

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 16:11

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
The thread title editing thing I mean.

This is my point (my point from the post about Crash anyway).

It might have been extremely witty and clever and made people laugh, but that is not in any way justification for doing it. That's exactly the opposite of how a mod should behave.

Chojin · 21 Jul 2003, 16:17

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
This is my point (my point from the post about Crash anyway).

It might have been extremely witty and clever and made people laugh, but that is not in any way justification for doing it. That's exactly the opposite of how a mod should behave.

On a larger board, perhaps.

On a board such as this, with a fairly small member base, it's quite acceptable.

Notice that people who don't make crap threads don't generally get their post content edited.

The solution is obvious: Don't make crap threads.

queball · 21 Jul 2003, 16:21

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
This is my point (my point from the post about Crash anyway).

It might have been extremely witty and clever and made people laugh, but that is not in any way justification for doing it. That's exactly the opposite of how a mod should behave.

Of course it is justification. The question is this simple: would you rather have a system that delivered the funny efficiently, or a system that delivered the funny inefficiently?

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 16:31

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
Of course it is justification. The question is this simple: would you rather have a system that delivered the funny efficiently, or a system that delivered the funny inefficiently?

I'd rather have a system that doesn't involve the authorities getting their kicks from predating on the customers. Fortunately on all the forums I actually care about I am in a position to enforce such conditions.

Funnies at somebody else's expense are never 'humour'. They are mockery, plain and simple.

CrashTester · 21 Jul 2003, 17:02

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
However, I have to agree with crashtester that mods should not be poking fun at members for their own amusement by changing the attributes of a thread. Making a title more descriptive is one thing - but changing it to degrade a forum member in front of their peers is not the sort of behaviour I would tolerate from any of the mods on the boards I administer.

Mods should have the insight and initiative to interpret the vague trolling clause, and make full use of their discretionary powers, but above all they should be impartial as the name Moderator itself implies. Otherwise there is no point in having them.

Finally, someone who actually see's the point of this. Thank you for making it a little more A grade.

Chojin: You are a funny funny little man. Nothing more mind, just a funny little man.

MrL_JaKiri · 21 Jul 2003, 17:22

Quote:

Originally posted by BarbieKen
If MrL/Kurashima was to start a gimmick, it would just be cool and witty, but since John Doe does it, it's stupid and boring.

Don't look at me. Aside from this account, and other 'main' accounts I've used (such as 'MrL'), I've had Wiggles, which was for one joke (and I forgot to log out of it, so quite a lot of 'normal' posting was done for it) and 'Not MrL_JaKiri' for the thread which said 'The only thread that MrL_JaKiri hasn't posted in'.

queball · 21 Jul 2003, 17:24

gimmick != gimmick account

MrL_JaKiri · 21 Jul 2003, 17:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Dead_Meat
Sued? By who? The Internet police or little Johnny's parents in ten years time when he dies of an overdose?

But then who will I play pool with?

MrL_JaKiri · 21 Jul 2003, 17:34

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
gimmick != gimmick account

I've not really had much gimmickary of any kind.

And noone thinks it's funny when I do. Ma homie.

MrL_JaKiri · 21 Jul 2003, 17:35

Oh, and does this thread mean people respect me and expect me to be mature and disinterested?

Oh

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 17:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Chojin
On a larger board, perhaps.
On a board such as this, with a fairly small member base, it's quite acceptable.

Sorry, I missed that post earlier. Was furtively reading the boards from work

I don't call 13,000 + users after a couple of purges 'a small userbase', but then size is relative for forums isn't it?

You comments about non-crap threads not being meddled with are true, but the simple fact that somebody made a thread that's not as good as the others available does not give the right to publically deride the user to the people who are supposed to be keeping order.

This might not be a democracy, but it's not Nero's Rome either.

queball · 21 Jul 2003, 18:07

MrL: I agree that no-one thinks it's funny.

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
This might not be a democracy, but it's not Nero's Rome either.

But you're advocating communism!

MrL_JaKiri · 21 Jul 2003, 18:08

Quote:

Originally posted by sayonara
I don't call 13,000 + users after a couple of purges 'a small userbase', but then size is relative for forums isn't it?

13,000 users, about 30 or 40 of whom at most post on GD.

MrL_JaKiri · 21 Jul 2003, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by queball
MrL: I agree that no-one thinks it's funny.

I tend to do more things because of irony than humour.

sayonara · 21 Jul 2003, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
13,000 users, about 30 or 40 of whom at most post on GD.

I still don't see the correlation between number of people affected and level of justification or acceptability.