eXilition and their questionable tactics

[wakey]

No this isnt another another cheating thread, this time its something legit they are doing but which seems kind of morally wrong, atleast from my pov.

We all know that for many of those lower down the big alliances are looked upon like celebs. They have a glitz and glamour about them that can be seductive. So when as an alliance HC your approached by one with an offer of a nap it can catch you off guard and can cause you to leave your sense at home. In many ways its probally an ego thing, you want to feel that your alliance is important and this offer validates this belief.

Anyway getting kind of sidetracked, my point here is that if something is too good to be true it normally is and it certainly seems to be the case for those smaller alliances being suckered into agreeing to co-operate with eXilition.

A few days back we heard rumours that eXil had decided we were partners with 1up and co against them so were now marked as target so we despectached someone to go and find out. I was hence suprised to hear back that infact it was true but it had been sorted and they were offering us a NAP. I was reluctant but was talked into it, only for the person to have connection problems and due to me being reluctant anyway we decided to wait till later when they started adding things like them suggesting targets to us. The next morning I got a PM from SiNND. Apparently F-Crew had hit some of them and Exil had come in a few ticks later. They suspected we were working with Exil and i got the feeling this was something SiNND considered a normal Exil tactic.

Anyway was enough for me to decide not to agree to their propsal, I wasnt about to let F-Crew become flak for them. It now appears clear however we werent the only alliance outside the top 10 to be offered this, for example APA are currently helping Exil out this very nght. It would seem that Exils plan to win involves abusing their position of the power this position has over smaller alliances to get them to agree to be escorts/flak for their attacks

I know your in a war but abusing the lack of experiance or PA common sense that the smaller alliances have is just low. It seems very cowardly to me to be using these alliances to gain an advantage for yourselves. You should be using your experiance to help the game not using your position to screw other the smaller alliances. especially those who show promise and help train and introduce players to the game

[furball]

Originally Posted by wakey

(snip)

Anyway was enough for me to decide not to agree to their propsal, I wasnt about to let F-Crew become flak for them. It now appears clear however we werent the only alliance outside the top 10 to be offered this, for example APA are currently helping Exil out this very nght. It would seem that Exils plan to win involves abusing their position of the power this position has over smaller alliances to get them to agree to be escorts/flak for their attacks

I know your in a war but abusing the lack of experiance or PA common sense that the smaller alliances have is just low. It seems very cowardly to me to be using these alliances to gain an advantage for yourselves. You should be using your experiance to help the game not using your position to screw other the smaller alliances. especially those who show promise and help train and introduce players to the game

Excellent post Wakey.

Personally I hope that APA come to their senses and get the hell out of dodge. I've heard that they've been added to the 1up block's targetting list, which frankly sickens me. They don't belong there, and I hope that tonight will be the only night on which they receive co-ordinated incomings.

1up/SiNND/etc can argue all they like that if APA wish to help EXilition, then they become valid targets. Yet - I see no benefits for them in sending any fleets towards APA when frankly they need everything they've got heading at EXilition.

[Rust]

hi wakey, what your saying sounds all well and good but at the end of the day they are in it to win it, questionable things happen in war. rember we will only rember the winners, no matter how good the little alliances are.

[SteInMetz]

Doesnt surprise me at all tbh..
They sit at the top spot, they have more average score, roids, and such than the 1up block (with their allies), the fact that nos isnt helping out here, is causing the round to stagnate, NoS sits currently with a nap to Exi, and to 1up block, fencesitting in the best way they can.. if they continue to do that, they will have no chance for a good position this round, ex will turn on them, roid them flat, and tbh, i would like to do the same.. but it is not up to me to decide

Yet they need more help..
Says all about ex imo..

[at0mic.c0w]

i highly doubt this publicity stunt is going to stop eX from winning the round.

[Neferti]

That explains why F-Crew in my gal was getting paranoid about Exilition teaming up with [APA] against F-Crew earlier...

[Rumad]

tbh flak for an alliance no longer exists. If you are helping an alliance with its goals whether that be exil, nos or 1up you are also getting the advantage of less defence. The other issue is that many of the enemy bloc are simply getting too small to attack. I would say this is beneficial to all parties.

Your choice to not accept though, but still dont see it as flak.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Rumad

tbh flak for an alliance no longer exists. If you are helping an alliance with its goals whether that be exil, nos or 1up you are also getting the advantage of less defence. The other issue is that many of the enemy bloc are simply getting too small to attack. I would say this is beneficial to all parties.

Your choice to not accept though, but still dont see it as flak.

Then keep an eye on APA's score and roid level over the next couple of days. I practically guarantee it will drop (and I know this sets me up to be wrong, Murphy's Law and all that). Beneficial to both parties? Wait and see...

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by furball

Then keep an eye on APA's score and roid level over the next couple of days. I practically guarantee it will drop (and I know this sets me up to be wrong, Murphy's Law and all that). Beneficial to both parties? Wait and see...

If they are attacked more because of there stance thats the hc's decision isnt it? At least theya re trying to join in instead of standon the wings - fair play to them,

Roids are worth nothing this round anyway. Just nice to have a for day or so :P

[D3coy`]

Originally Posted by wakey

A few days back we heard rumours that eXil had decided we were partners with 1up and co against them so were now marked as target so we despectached someone to go and find out. I was hence suprised to hear back that infact it was true but it had been sorted and they were offering us a NAP. I was reluctant but was talked into it, only for the person to have connection problems and due to me being reluctant anyway we decided to wait till later when they started adding things like them suggesting targets to us. The next morning I got a PM from SiNND. Apparently F-Crew had hit some of them and Exil had come in a few ticks later. They suspected we were working with Exil and i got the feeling this was something SiNND considered a normal Exil tactic.

By this post you deny the idea of a PowerBlocking.
(Btw we weren't fist to arrange the PB this round)

And why you like so much tell people negative points of this action?
Don't you think it's a perfect chance for a small alliance to grow up, roiding some attacked planets 3-4 waves after big people, or covering rest of the attacked galaxy wich is napped to let's say US to prevent ingal defence?

I think it's great chance, quite dangerous, but still better then idling around and fighting for 50-80 roids per day while you can get 300+

[Kileman]

Fury did it with Virus, Legion did it with Ely, LDK did it with everyone (including their own alliance)..... its nothing new.
________
456

[Alessio]

/me notes down to never PM wakey


jk

[demiGOD]

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...&postcount=111

I knew I was on to something.

[Spritfire]

Originally Posted by Rumad

tbh flak for an alliance no longer exists. If you are helping an alliance with its goals whether that be exil, nos or 1up you are also getting the advantage of less defence. The other issue is that many of the enemy bloc are simply getting too small to attack. I would say this is beneficial to all parties.

Your choice to not accept though, but still dont see it as flak.

How can they be getting less defence when they go in before the alliance they are flaking ?
That sounds a little weird to me, if they are going in first, they are the def drains.
Hard to see this ? or are you just blind ?

[SteInMetz]

i just wonder if rock are involved with this, as i tend to get those incomings before the other block.. o_O

[ChubbyChecker]

I'm pretty certain we (APA) didn't help Exilition out tonight.

Although I think we did attack some targets they asked us to a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure since I'm not HC.

[DrunkenViking]

Exilition are free to nap and ally whomever they want, no? Too bad for the smaller alliances if they dont consider the consequenses before they agree/decline, but its ultimatly their own fault if they stumble under the pressure. Ofc they may be flattered by proposals of naps and alliances, but if they cant be a good HC's and look at both good and bad sides, then that alliance needs a new HC. Its unfair to jump exilition for trying to win the round by a totally valid tactiqe. Every person in this game has a free will, and none of theese alliances in questions are forced into any deals as far as i know. My opinion tho, not that it counts for anything.

[Heartless]

As other people stated already, it is a valid tactic. And a fairly amusing one considering Exilitions political cooperators are respecting contracts with them, even though smaller alliances are asked to hit those "partners" of Ex by Ex themselves (refering to a reply by D3coy`: "or covering rest of the attacked galaxy wich is napped to let's say US to prevent ingal defence?").

However, it is somewhat sad if smaller alliances are still needed for cooperation when the winning block is in a situation which can already be declared as "winning block". But then again, war is always funny, sad and cruel.

And, on a sidenote, wasn't "lcheat"* a powerblock** which existed pretty much from the start as well?

---

* a stands for 'and' not for 'Angels' - unless one wants to count a NAP into a strong contribution to a block
** if one wants to call blocks with 3 alliances that way

edit: corrected footnotes as the first one about score not representing fleetsize wasn't needed anymore in the final post

[Gate]

Unfortunately, it's a valid enough tactic. Not something I would willingly use, I'm too nice for that, and it's very exploitative of the smaller alliances, but everything is a learning experience and I hope that HCs of those alliances will learn from this and not be so easily manipulated by the 'glitz' and 'glamour' in future.

Here is where some poor F-Crew or APA sod goes splat on my planet ... Guess who came in and took the roids after 3 waves of similar inc from smaller* players had sapped the def? :/

All credit to F-Crew/APA though, they multi waved 14 planets in my gal and effectively screwed up any chance of ingal def covering it all, forcing us to use alliance def to do so, and leaving us dry for when the bigger boys came steaming in.

*smaller compared to my normal incs from eXi/LCH/ToT, that is.

[Bodders]

Well our position with Exil as far as I am aware is a NAP, we have not officaly allied with them against anyone in any shape or form.

Exil have asked on occasion if we could possibly look to help them out with an attack. Of which we assess the targets and decide if it would be a bad move or not. We have assisted them on one occasion that I am aware of.

As for last nite as far as I am aware of we did not hit a target that was nominated by Exil, however i was down the pub for a few hours and could be mistaken.

Not being HC i could be wrong, but from the information that was made available and i believe them to be telling the truth the above is correct.

[Bashar]

I would say myself that there isn't anything wrong with this tactic. I don't like it and would never do it myself as I have some consideration for others and most specifically, for the community. However, I will not criticise Exilition for doing it, as if any alliance is gullible enough to think that they have anything whatsoever to gain from such a pact with Exilition, then it is their own fault (harsh, but it is true).

[barney]

hmm seams to me the alliance HC are pretty clueless if they cant see whats going on, however if that leads to their members being included on the opposite blocks hitlist thats fair enuf, they are valid targets. and imo if their alliance HC thinks they are capable of being involved in such a war on an equal footing, whilst i wish them good luck, i dont fancy their chances. Im sure the members will get sick of the incomings and not gaining roids every night.

[noah02]

This is a war game and its about politics with alliancess etc... You can only get away with this tactic a few times with each alliance maybe even once but in all fairness politics in a game of war will always include this sort of shite like spying on alliancess etc... its comes with the game and if you are hood winked then you will learn
I have seen plenty of clever tactics from exil this round cheating or not they have looked for the loop holes and used them to there advantage just like most ppl did last round with the Zik bug with defending against yourself.

[Rinoa]

On a side not noah did u here for round 14 there replacing Terrans with another race

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Rinoa

On a side not noah did u here for round 14 there replacing Terrans with another race

&*($£&("&)$(! they best not or I quit.

Well unless its the Noah race

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by someone

eXilition and their que... 25 May 2005 10:55 Oh shut the **** up ignorant kid... 1up and SiD is fencing as much as NoS

To frightened to give me your nick?

Anyway, we are not near what NoS are doing, and if you actually knew something about politics this round, you would know..
Anyway EX, is napping half universe + NoS, so whats that got to do with us?

[Kaisto]

Seems like a few things need clearing up. [APA] is not as an alliance, running coordinated attacks with Exi, we are in a NAP. If they suggest targets for us, we do our own assessment. If the target(s) are juicy, we go for them; if they are crap, we just laugh and go on with our own stuff. As we have no official ties with those other "big, tough" boys that are now threatening to put us on their target lists, we dont give a shit if a target planet is theirs! We want roids, ships and score, and will choose targets that can give us just that regardless of who it belongs to. You can call us opportunists if u wish. If other alliances do not want incomings from us and want a nap, feel free to drop by our irc chan and have a chat about it. Otherwise stop complaining about questionable tactics! Exi have treated us fairly and with respect, we would not be in the nap if things were different. Perhaps it is time that some of the other "top alliances" got their heads out of their arses...

[Avenged]

As i feel some of our members have already outlined, yet again Wakeys intel is inacurate!

We have attacked some targets to aid EXI and we are in a NAP with them, the outines of the NAP we have arranges are that we will assist them if it helps us in our aims to gain ranks on the table and they will help us for the same reason, without a shaddow of doubt it is easier to cover more targets if twice as many people are attacking them.

But i would also like to make it clear to everyone to take what is posted above with a pinch of salt, i feel its a case of chinese whispers and inacurate intel. And would once again like to stress that all target chosen for our alliance attacks are chosen by us, we are not under the control of EXI and never will be!

[Avenged]

Originally Posted by Kaisto

Perhaps it is time that some of the other "top alliances" got their heads out of their arses...

That To!

[Phil^]

Strictly speaking then, thats not a nap
a nap is where two alliances agree not to attack each other. ie "Non agressive policy"

If you co-operate with each other in addition to not attacking each other isnt it an alliance between two alliances?

Sorry, in a pedantic mood today

[Kaisto]

an alliance is what you call a permanent arrangement, this is something that has happened one or two times. I could also mention other alliances that have had "help" covering a few targets by us, but I am not going to. This does not mean that we are in an alliance with them, but rather that we are positively inclined to cooperate if it benefits our score. This cannot really be said to be an alliance as the only permanent ties between us is that of the nap. If u phil, came to me and suggested a juicy target and said that defence would be scarce..Id check it out and probably hit it as it would greatly benefit me.

[Phil^]

apa need to be careful playing that game with exilition if they want to avoid being called exilitions puppet imo.

Edit : I should point out that i dont currently think they are a puppet atm, but its a slippery road which they're on.

i still think its an alliance between them in all but name tho

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Kaisto

Seems like a few things need clearing up. [APA] is not as an alliance, running coordinated attacks with Exi, we are in a NAP. If they suggest targets for us, we do our own assessment. If the target(s) are juicy, we go for them; if they are crap, we just laugh and go on with our own stuff. As we have no official ties with those other "big, tough" boys that are now threatening to put us on their target lists, we dont give a shit if a target planet is theirs! We want roids, ships and score, and will choose targets that can give us just that regardless of who it belongs to. You can call us opportunists if u wish. If other alliances do not want incomings from us and want a nap, feel free to drop by our irc chan and have a chat about it. Otherwise stop complaining about questionable tactics! Exi have treated us fairly and with respect, we would not be in the nap if things were different. Perhaps it is time that some of the other "top alliances" got their heads out of their arses...

So basicly you are saying you cant pick those juicy targets yourself, because before EX napped you, we didnt have as much incs from you as we do now..
To me that means that you are unable to pick your own good targets, and need help to do it..

[Kaisto]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

So basicly you are saying you cant pick those juicy targets yourself, because before EX napped you, we didnt have as much incs from you as we do now..
To me that means that you are unable to pick your own good targets, and need help to do it..

1. If thats what you thought that I meant, LEARN TO READ!

2. Please, if u want to post, make sensible comments, or shut up and stay out of the discussion Steinmetz. I dont give a shit if you get more incs from us now or not. We choose our own target gal every night, and we are nearly always successful. If exi suggests a good gal where there will be little defence, or if I.e. NoS came to us and did the same; we would assess the target and possibly hit it if we decided that our chances were good.

3. About being careful... If exi started asking us to go on suicide missions, we would tell them to bugger off ( Which is what I am telling those of you who are whining about our nap with exi atm).
No other alliances dictate what we do, we do what is best for [APA]. If you are friendly and treat us with respect and you will see that we will do the same, and we will listen to you. Come to us with an attitude and we will tell you to piss off (And yes, I do have major authority problems and HATE it when ppl try to tell me what to do when there is no logical reason why I should do it)

[monkeyrand]

Well siad Kaisto. As far as i am aware we have only attacked a few targets with exilition if they attack targets after us then maybe they like the target we have picked because we are good at picking targets.

Or maybe it is just conicidence as all the big gals are nice targets for big alliances.

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by Kaisto

Perhaps it is time that some of the other "top alliances" got their heads out of their arses...

That's a very good point. Many alliances seem to have a rather inflexible view of politics, which can make them slow to adjust to new realities such as the rise in power of the (traditionally) "smaller" alliances. This round, the gap between the "big" alliances and the "small" alliances is far smaller than I can ever remember it being.

[notsure]

I can't say I recall EXI being involved in the selection of our targets - except maybe once I do recall them suggesting targets and us (APA) looking at them and going no thanks and then selecting our own target that night the same way we do most nights.

While we may occassionally work with other alliances - we're mostly just out there doing what we can to help [APA] and our members do the best we can.

Anything else is just the rumour mill gone into overdrive *again*

[Gate]

Originally Posted by someone

eXilition and their que... 25 May 2005 10:55 Oh shut the **** up ignorant kid... 1up and SiD is fencing as much as NoS

If I liked the cliché, I would offer to paypal that guy a penny, for saying one of the most clueless and ridiculous things I have ever heard on the internet.

And to try and insult someone whilst spurting such inane babble is just comical. If you want an explanation for why I consider that to be complete and utter BS, feel free to pm me.

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Kaisto

2. Please, if u want to post, make sensible comments, or shut up and stay out of the discussion Steinmetz. I dont give a shit if you get more incs from us now or not. We choose our own target gal every night, and we are nearly always successful. If exi suggests a good gal where there will be little defence, or if I.e. NoS came to us and did the same; we would assess the target and possibly hit it if we decided that our chances were good.

Cant you even agree that its strange that we got more incs from smaller allies after EX has napped them?
Or are you blinded by your new allie, that is so big and so great?

[monkeyrand]

Have you not considered that there is this thing called value.

It gets bigger your fleets get bigger.

Also bigger people need bigger fleets to attack them, whats the point in sending huge fleets when there are only tiny amounts of ships, its stupid.

[Kaisto]

I cannot answer for other allies or their arrangements with exi, but as I said before, we have on a few occasions hit targets that were suggested to us by Exi as we were given info that there would be little def available. Since we considered this info to be reliable we would be quite foolish to let the opportunity pass us by. But this does NOT mean that we are actively targetting any other alliances.

Another reason why you might see more incs from what u call "smaller allies" could be what was mentioned above..

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

This round, the gap between the "big" alliances and the "small" alliances is far smaller than I can ever remember it being.

We have alot of members and we are capable of launching quite effective raids on top ranked gals and this is what we do. This has aboslutely nothing to do with exi, they are raids solely organised by [APA]. What the other "smaller alliances" are up to you will have to ask them about.

[Amycus]

Originally Posted by Gate

If I liked the cliché, I would offer to paypal that guy a penny, for saying one of the most clueless and ridiculous things I have ever heard on the internet.

And to try and insult someone whilst spurting such inane babble is just comical. If you want an explanation for why I consider that to be complete and utter BS, feel free to pm me.

LOL you should see the crap I get in rep comments sometimes.

Now to all you APA members out there I wouldn't really sweat anything on this forum. If all you did was come in our public channel and carry on a fun conversation with us you would get flamed as something or another because that is what comes with being a part of eX.

Originally Posted by Rinoa

On a side not noah did u here for round 14 there replacing Terrans with another race

Knowing noah this probably caused some unhappy bowel movements.
Poor noah I still wub ya

[notsure]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

Cant you even agree that its strange that we got more incs from smaller allies after EX has napped them?
Or are you blinded by your new allie, that is so big and so great?

If you have more inc from APA it is in no way related to our NAP with EXI - I can't speak for other alliances though.

As has been said - the choice of APA targets is made by APA - 99.99% of the time - with no regard for the thoughts and feelings of other alliances...we chose the targets *we* want to hit now those that others want us to.

[Kaisto]

Very mature Steinmetz....neg rep me for arguing against your unfounded and illogical assumption based on my post.

[Phil^]

neg reppers are always fun. Especially those who have a bad reputation themselves but continue to give rep to others without leaving a comment
they dont quite seem to understand that if their reputation is in the red, then any reputation they give out has absolutely no effect on the person they give it to and not leaving a comment defeats the point of it being a 'protest' at what you said

[Snurx]

Originally Posted by Amycus

Now to all you APA members out there I wouldn't really sweat anything on this forum. If all you did was come in our public channel and carry on a fun conversation with us you would get flamed as something or another because that is what comes with being a part of eX.

Oh no, everybody knows that AD is the only place to get the truth about PA politics

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by Kaisto

Very mature Steinmetz....neg rep me for arguing against your unfounded and illogical assumption based on my post.

Well, i atleast comment, and telling who it is.. im getting neg reped with shitty comments like "Lolz" and stuff, but no name..

[Phil^]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

Well, i atleast comment, and telling who it is.. im getting neg reped with shitty comments like "Lolz" and stuff, but no name..

Not many ppl sign their reps. Im guilty of not signing every single one myself, as sometimes i forget to before i click the button.

[Loz]

Yeah it's crap when it's anonymous.

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by notsure

If you have more inc from APA it is in no way related to our NAP with EXI - I can't speak for other alliances though.

As has been said - the choice of APA targets is made by APA - 99.99% of the time - with no regard for the thoughts and feelings of other alliances...we chose the targets *we* want to hit now those that others want us to.

There has gone 55 days, and 99.99% of the attacks are picked by you, well Kaisto says that on some occasions you have gotten your targets of EX..

One of you are lieing, or you are contradicting yourselves...