Planetarion Forums - anyone know if this exists?

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunga

Just play for five or ten minutes. Thats plenty of time for any "weaker" characters to place a few finished blows, and most of the weakers characters can take a pounding or avoid taking a pounding. Sure, they do less damage and kill less, but they don't die as often as say Captain Falcon or Pikachu.

That's only true in a 2 player game, really. If there's more than 2, the balance of power (as it were) is altered significantly.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 15:35

No, its only true on a three or four way game, since the physically weaker characters can wait for DK to do lots of damage to someone and then quickly chuck a bob-omb or something their way. In a 1 v 1 game, the weaker one is at a serious disadvantage since there is no one to give a finishing blow.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 15:40

I disagree entirely.

In a 2 player, the weaker character can dodge about (example: Sheik vs DK) and do more damage than is received.

In a 3-4 player, the damage required for the weaker character to get the final blow is significantly more than DK or similar, so it's much more likely for them to get it in first.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 15:46

In a txo player game the weaker one will get hit for more damage than he hits for. Since he is the only one hitting the other player, he won't kill as often as he is killed.

In a 3 or 4 player game, the weaker character can dodge about since there are always better targets available. He won't get hit very much at all, and he can easily concentrate on kill stealing. Chances are that the characters in the middle of a three way fight won't even notice the barrel he chucks their way in time to do anything about it.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 15:57

In a 2 player, the weaker one (who is faster, as a rule) will get hit less often.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 16:02

But he will get hit for more damage. The stronger/heavier/slower character will not hit the faster one that often, sure, but he will do relative masses of damage and kill the tiny wuss when the weaker one has only 80% or so. On the other hand, the heavy one will not die untill he has 150%.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 16:06

The faster character is disproportionately good though, in 2 player. It's entirely plausable that the larger, slower character will NEVER hit the faster one, unlike in a 3 or 4 player when, if the smaller character spends most of the time dodging, he'll either be not fast enough to dodge everything, or will not get sufficient kills.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 16:35

In order for the slower character to never hit the faster one, the faster one would have to spend all his time and focus on dodging and getting out fo the way. Then he wouldn't be able to hit the slower one either.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 16:42

Not all the time... for instance, the dodge twice then throw thing worked very well in SSB, although throws have been nerfed somewhat in Melee. Double dodge then smash maybe.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 16:46

That doesn't work at all against drawn out attacks from above, like mewtwo's lightning field when he falls.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 16:49

Just dodge those entirely. Attacks from above are much easier to predict.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 16:56

If he is sidestepping twice and about to throw something, he doesn't really have tim to predict it. Whenever I see him dodge, I can jump up and lighning him. Nothing he can do, 12% damage.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 16:59

The point is that he only dodges when you do an attack, which doesn't give you enough time to do that.

Although why your statements don't apply equally well, if not better, to a 3 or 4 player is beyond me.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 17:12

Because in a 3 or 4 player game you are stupid if you try to hunt down the little scared guy on the sidelines. He will just run away and run away and you waste time in which you could be killing the people who actually fight instead.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 17:14

Most of the maps aren't big enough to run anywhere that won't get you towards someone else.

In addition, hanging around the edge will get you nowhere.

Bunga · 6 Dec 2003, 18:08

Most of the maps are big enough for someone to keep moving out of the way. In a three player game, there will be at least two people fighting each other more or less constantly and you can then just sit out and throw in the well aimed punch now and then. In a four player game more often than not there are three people in a free-for-all somewhere, or two people battling it out and a third nearby ready to pick up and throw anyone with a high damage out. In both cases it is easy to stay out of trouble.

And hanging around the edge will get you somewhere, especially in a stock game (the ones you like so much) and in time games you dodge untill you find a person with 120%+ and kill him quickly. Then stay out of trouble, and you have a good chance of winning.

MrL_JaKiri · 6 Dec 2003, 18:14

Your statement about how well it works in stock games is irrelevent, given that the discussion was about how weaker/faster characters are disadvantaged in time games as opposed to stock games.

Also, you say in 4 players that 2 will be fighting and 2 will be hanging around doing nothing... that's an exceptionally dull way to play; I'd say it's quite likely that one of the scavengers will attempt to attack the other one.

Also, taking your words literally, you're saying that +1 can result in a win in time games... I don't find that likely unless you're playing with a group of people who keep on falling off.

Bunga · 7 Dec 2003, 02:13

Even if they fall of only once, if the players are evenly matched the +1 will win. And he won't be able to kill just one, I of course meant "stay out of trouble and continue doing what you did".