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12 Sep 2016, 00:43
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#1
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speed demon
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 343
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Remove alliance defence fleet
Remove it the alliance defence fleet.
Why
1) It makes the game a bit stagnated, with less lands and more recalls, this leads to less players enjoying the game
2) It was meant to help the lower alliances, it does not. It helps the bigger alliances massively. And all big alliances will admit that. Just ask Xerxes from Ultores or Butcher from Rainbows.
3) You should be rewarded for activity, for live launching. Now live launching just isn't effective.
4) If the alliance defence slot stays I can see alot more of our valuable player base diminishing.
There's many more negative points.
Only positive ones are likely from high ranked players who absolutely love it.
The alliance defence slot was meant to help the lesser players. It helps the better players more and more.
Please remove it.
Please.
At least try removing it for one round and see if it impacts the player base?
__________________
see below how pro I am
Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 28 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)
Round 85 - Rank 3 - QQ (Etd)
Round 89 - Rank 2 - VGN (Zik)
Round 91 - Rank 9 - VGN (Zik)
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12 Sep 2016, 10:10
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#2
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
My main reason for liking the alliance defense fleets is for their symmetry: prelaunch allows people to launch attack fleets while they're asleep. The alliance defense fleet allows people to launch defense fleets while they're asleep.
I do understand that they're problematic in the ways you've described, but I'm not convinced there isn't a way to fix them.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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12 Sep 2016, 11:00
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#3
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
My main reason for liking the alliance defense fleets is for their symmetry: prelaunch allows people to launch attack fleets while they're asleep. The alliance defense fleet allows people to launch defense fleets while they're asleep.
I do understand that they're problematic in the ways you've described, but I'm not convinced there isn't a way to fix them.
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The biggest problem is the "bandwagon" effect.
People say that making offensive stats will counter the "defensive game" issue, but that again increases the bandwagon effect.
There is no reason, at all, NO REASON WHAT SO EVER to hit a top tag unless you know they will have over 60 incs, you simply cannot and will not land them ever.
Just give HR defence fleet, and remove it for the rest
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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12 Sep 2016, 12:20
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#4
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speed demon
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 343
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
yeah mz is correct
i would also remove prelaunched attacks too
but yes
we need balance
perhaps it needs scaling
top 3 alliance bottom 20% can use it
3-5 alliance bottom 25%...
required extra coding
everyone please suggest viable solutions!
__________________
see below how pro I am
Round 17 - Rank 3 - Omen (Zik)
Round 18 - Rank 2 - eXilition (Zik)
Round 20 - Rank 7 - Destiny (Zik)
Round 24 - Rank 2 - Conspiracy (Xan)
Round 28 - Rank 4 - Ascendancy (Xan)
Round 66 - Rank 9 - Ultores (Etd)
Round 83 - Rank 10 - #METOO (Zik)
Round 85 - Rank 3 - QQ (Etd)
Round 89 - Rank 2 - VGN (Zik)
Round 91 - Rank 9 - VGN (Zik)
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12 Sep 2016, 14:46
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#5
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
either remove both pl attacks and autodef or keep the status quo.
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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12 Sep 2016, 15:04
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
1) It helps everyone.
2) Alliance def fleet isn't suppose to give agility on defense, but to give an easier access to their members as it only replaces the call/sms tools.
3) Its intend is to balance the pre-launch attacks. Nothing else
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So, the option to remove pre-launch attacks and that way remove ally def fleets would be the best in terms of fairness and game dynamics.
The second option, to nerf the alliance def fleet, demands code and is not guaranteed to bring the desired results.
What possible nerfs:
- fleets can be launched each tick up to XX:55 (so a single player can't stop a lolwave that is coordinating 15 players to live launch)
- the maximum number of fleets launched per tick is now 20. The #1-2 alliances gets only 5/tick, the #3-5 gets 10/tick, below that is 20/tick.
__________________
mxy
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12 Sep 2016, 16:08
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
A nerf with less impact: remove ally def fleet and change maximum pre launch in attack to +1
__________________
mxy
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12 Sep 2016, 17:06
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#8
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Removing, or limiting PL is silly.
Having inc scans show land tick would be the way to go.
Its a small nerph to PL, and it adds more strategy than just puming refs/FCs
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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12 Sep 2016, 19:31
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 168
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Removing, or limiting PL is silly.
Having inc scans show land tick would be the way to go.
Its a small nerph to PL, and it adds more strategy than just puming refs/FCs
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Actually agree.
I would go one step further. Let launch show the instant you launch it (as it was in the old days). When you prelaunch it gets launched in the start of the tick. So if you pre-launch you risk bigger meta class to defend vs you. Do this for regular launch as well. There isn't enough members anymore to get the dreaded msg 5 min to tick that the whole game goes down.
Something that rewards activity would be fun for a change.
But ye i would remove ally def fleets as well. Ppl complain that all we see is gangbanging on alliances. As long as we have def fleets it's almost pointless to hit one alliance alone
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12 Sep 2016, 20:44
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 386
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Unsure of nd official view on this but it's brought up to discussion now so will get back.
For us it's helped and for ex 2 rounds back when we were fighting bows we landed. Been landing less this and last round though. It's helped when adding fakes to leech def. And we keep some roids now even when under the heavy fire first half of round.
I see main problem in naptarion, 3x3 deals and ppl emoing over 1 lost wave of roids. That's imo main problem, not the allyfleets. Top allies too scared of falling behind after 1-2 days of red, and therefore no proper fighting. I even witness top allies being boogered over incs while on green
I don't think it makes a difference in hitting for ex Ult with or without allyfleets. They def anyways. So allyfleets has evened up allies to compete with them without taking them down with a megablock.
__________________
Adapt has never been an official ND HC. He was on his way to promotion for some reason, but then got denied promotion. Lol at the muppet claiming he has been
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12 Sep 2016, 22:03
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 168
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly
Unsure of nd official view on this but it's brought up to discussion now so will get back.
For us it's helped and for ex 2 rounds back when we were fighting bows we landed. Been landing less this and last round though. It's helped when adding fakes to leech def. And we keep some roids now even when under the heavy fire first half of round.
I see main problem in naptarion, 3x3 deals and ppl emoing over 1 lost wave of roids. That's imo main problem, not the allyfleets. Top allies too scared of falling behind after 1-2 days of red, and therefore no proper fighting. I even witness top allies being boogered over incs while on green
I don't think it makes a difference in hitting for ex Ult with or without allyfleets. They def anyways. So allyfleets has evened up allies to compete with them without taking them down with a megablock.
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Don't disagree that's easier to keep roids.Still think it's a crap and boring feature :P
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14 Sep 2016, 08:13
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#12
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
The whole travel system is broken.
Rather than removing pl or nerfing auto def why don't we find a way to stop players attacking at 3am.
My simple fix would be 9am -9pm -2 eta. That means if you attack with FI in these hours you get ETA 5. A quicker turn around and higher chance of penetrating defence at these hours would hopefully move alliances away from attacking at unsocial hours.
You can change pl and how to def into as many combinations as you please but until you solve this core flaw in the game then the problem will continue to exist.
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14 Sep 2016, 09:32
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#13
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
why don't we find a way to stop players attacking at 3am.
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No reason.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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14 Sep 2016, 12:17
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 517
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
The Inc scan detecting the numbers of ticks the attack is pre-launched is a boost to an ingame feature that doesnt come free as it needs a good amount of amps.
That is a good improvement that can allow the remove of the ally def fleet.
__________________
mxy
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14 Sep 2016, 23:47
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#15
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
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Quoting time zone as relative is all well and good until you take into account that atleast 65% of the playerbase play in a European timezone and having an environment which is antisocial to the majority is not s good platform to base a sustainable game on. The launch time is also anti social to Asia and East Coast America around 3am game time so yes, it needs changing to make attacking more spread out across a day with less time to react rather all chucking the kitchen sink at someone whilst up-to 80% of their team mates are trying to sleep before work
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15 Sep 2016, 08:38
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#16
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
This is a 24h game, closing the game for certain hours or making it act diffrtently for certain hours wont happend.
If the inc scan showed landing tick, it would encourage diffrent stratetgies aswell.
1. Going for higher amps would be more valueable if you want to prelaunch def.
2. Going for higher dists if you want to just PL attack as usual.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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15 Sep 2016, 09:55
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#17
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
This is a 24h game, closing the game for certain hours or making it act diffrtently for certain hours wont happend.
If the inc scan showed landing tick, it would encourage diffrent stratetgies aswell.
1. Going for higher amps would be more valueable if you want to prelaunch def.
2. Going for higher dists if you want to just PL attack as usual.
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It's not though really is it. Attacks and defence primarly happen in a 4hr window at the most anti social point of the spectrum for the majority of the playerbase.
Tailoring bonuses and buffs to those that actually play it rather than presuming that everything is equal would go a long way to improving the core aspect of the game, attacking and defending. Those who are awake in the anti social hours already reap the benefit of most of us being asleep whilst they go about their business. Giving a buff/incentive to the majority to attack at hours that are social to them can only be a positive to the longevity of the game.
Lots of American players are prized for their timezone rather than their actual ability to play the game. Who knows how many brilliant European dcs there is out there who never get a chance to shine because they have to sleep at night.
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15 Sep 2016, 10:59
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#18
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
These americans have to be alive at unsociable hours to TP/launch/calc their own attacks to some extent.
And what abilities do you need to play the game except being dedicated/having someone being dedicated for you?
Alliances like Norse and Asc has sucsefully been attacking during "social" hours because they are launching at alliances that have no fleets left to defend with.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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15 Sep 2016, 11:09
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#19
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
This is not AD.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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15 Sep 2016, 11:18
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#20
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
This is not AD.
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Ah, sorry for using other alliances as examples why there is possibole to attack during other hours than 03:00.
Would it be okey if i said alliance "A" or group "B"?
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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15 Sep 2016, 13:47
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#21
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Gone a bit off topic, haven't we?
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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15 Sep 2016, 14:03
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#22
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Gone a bit off topic, haven't we?
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It's just an evolution of the discussion
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15 Sep 2016, 15:16
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#23
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Fair enough.
Would like to see some more input re: ally def fleet, and maybe some hard data (Appoco?) before I can give an opinion.
It still seems to be a good thing...
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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15 Sep 2016, 16:22
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#24
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
i think the feature is a good one and i strongly doubt removing it will rise the playerbase at all
rather i think if u remove it, the shrinking will continue even faster
though honestly spoken i feel this game wont last much longer anyhow
politics are broken, mainly because of a too small universe imo
fighting battles isnt rewarded enough
here a few suggestions to stop the game from dying
*reward landing attacks with xp only if a fight happens, if the target runs, no xp or very little should be rewarded
i leave it to the math maniacs to make up a formula, but my idea would be to count ships only that actually get to shoot or could in theory (if they wouldnt be killed, stunned before)
*remove xp for defence
*add bot planets
* allow every player a second planet (limit interaction somehow)
* advertize the game
my 6 and a half cents
__________________
m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"It´s not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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15 Sep 2016, 17:38
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Would like to see some more input re: ally def fleet, and maybe some hard data (Appoco?) before I can give an opinion.
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Define hard data? What data do you expect/want to see?
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15 Sep 2016, 17:41
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#26
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Fleets launched in general, by alliance, some sort of average ship-type(s) in fleets, that sort of thing
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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15 Sep 2016, 18:11
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#27
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Bram,
Are you able to extrapolate which fleets have been sent via ally def slot and which were launched by the actual planet? Might be interesting if we could see which alliance make the most advantage of this.
Also is able to see how many attack or def fleets each alliance pre-aunched?
Finally can we see by daily hour over the course of the round how many fleets an alliance sent on attack and dehence. To see if butcher is right and Norse always attacked at 3pm and whether timezone truly matters. I'm sure alliances could provide nationality of their members
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15 Sep 2016, 18:38
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Are you able to extrapolate which fleets have been sent via ally def slot and which were launched by the actual planet? Might be interesting if we could see which alliance make the most advantage of this.
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After end of round I should be able to provide numbers on that..
Do note that for the previous round Appocomaster did post numbers in http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201187 (Top Defence-Sharing Alliances)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Also is able to see how many attack or def fleets each alliance pre-aunched?
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For prelaunching attacking fleets I did post some numbers on this last year:
For pre-launched def fleets: I do not have stats available on that yet and it ofc depends on what pre-launched def fleets you mean..
There are two cases: - lower class fleet launched to def highger class (i.e. FI/CO fleet launched to def against FR/DE when the inc is still eta 8, technically that is PL+1)
- higher class fleet launched to def lower class
The first number is easy to provide but I consider that to be quite useless;
The second number should be possible to extract but takes a bit of more work..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Finally can we see by daily hour over the course of the round how many fleets an alliance sent on attack and dehence. To see if butcher is right and Norse always attacked at 3pm and whether timezone truly matters. I'm sure alliances could provide nationality of their members
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This should be possible
When the round is over (i.e. next week) I should be able to provide numbers for this round.. (unless someone can convince PA team to hand me the data up until this tick then it might be available sooner)
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15 Sep 2016, 18:42
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Fleets launched in general, by alliance
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Something like http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201186 ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
some sort of average ship-type(s) in fleets, that sort of thing
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Ship-type(s) in fleets is not really possible..
The ETA of the fleet is possible but without the TT level of the planet at launch time this is not so handy.. (and current data I get does not include that)
Ship-type(s) of fleets that landed on the other hand should be possible but since not all fleets land this might not give an accurate picture..
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15 Sep 2016, 21:07
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#30
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
The whole arguments is that stronger alliance will benefit from thsi than weaker alliances.
Maybe HRs defence peformance is doubled, and Ults only increased by a smaller margine, but the whole thing revolves around that from the new allie def fleet feature "stronger" alliance is able to use it better than "weaker" alliances and therefor increasing the gap even futher.
Why?
Defence/support planets is more common in say Ultores than say ND. With tags only counting for 40 planets, the bigger, and more organised tags is able to fill it up with defence planets wich tages basicly no effort to run.
Also the "bandwagon effect" of PA is DRAMATICLY increased by this new defence fleet feature(and offensive stats) as once the "pain barrier" is breach you would lose roids, and if it isnt breached no roids will be lost.
If say alliance A can cover 50 incs with 20 defence/support planets, no roids will be lost even without sending "real defence fleets".
If you want to breach the "pain barrier" for alliance A, maybe you need to send 100+ fleets, and very few, if any, alliance is able to do this.
So the only option would be to create a "block" or "bandwagon" as 1 on 1, and maybe even 2 vs 1 fights will result in no roid loss to either side.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Sep 2016, 00:32
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#31
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram
After end of round I should be able to provide numbers on that..
Do note that for the previous round Appocomaster did post numbers in http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201187 (Top Defence-Sharing Alliances)
For prelaunching attacking fleets I did post some numbers on this last year:
For pre-launched def fleets: I do not have stats available on that yet and it ofc depends on what pre-launched def fleets you mean..
There are two cases: - lower class fleet launched to def highger class (i.e. FI/CO fleet launched to def against FR/DE when the inc is still eta 8, technically that is PL+1)
- higher class fleet launched to def lower class
The first number is easy to provide but I consider that to be quite useless;
The second number should be possible to extract but takes a bit of more work..
This should be possible
When the round is over (i.e. next week) I should be able to provide numbers for this round.. (unless someone can convince PA team to hand me the data up until this tick then it might be available sooner)
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Thank you and yeah didn't even cross my mind of lower class def do scrap that part of it. But definitely attack PL please
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16 Sep 2016, 05:29
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#32
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Retired
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Thanks Bram, you nailed it.
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.
Utterly useless since r3
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17 Sep 2016, 12:28
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#33
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
My main reason for liking the alliance defense fleets is for their symmetry: prelaunch allows people to launch attack fleets while they're asleep. The alliance defense fleet allows people to launch defense fleets while they're asleep.
I do understand that they're problematic in the ways you've described, but I'm not convinced there isn't a way to fix them.
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Why not just remove both?
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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17 Sep 2016, 18:56
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#34
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
That works for me. It'll never happen, though.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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18 Sep 2016, 19:06
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#35
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
That works for me. It'll never happen, though.
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Let the players decide how committed they want to be.
I have huge reservations about the alliance defence feature too. It essentially makes it easier to flak for top planets and there is absolutely no reason for the game mechanics to facilitate this and help players who don't really need it.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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21 Sep 2016, 03:04
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 110
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Ok, late to the party as usual. Read this stuff with great scarcity...
Anyway, I think the alliance def fleet system should be removed. It is extremly unbalanced. It does help less active alliances keep some roids (but why is that a good thing in the first place? Activity should be rewarded...) but it helps an alliance with a dedicated DC exponentially more.
One concrete example were the war between Ultores and Norsemen last round, Norsemen live launched on us with around 15-20 planets. I stopped them by having Ult place fr/de based anti fi/co into ally command and then have a scanner scan the tag close to tick.
That's 2 people playing vs 15-20 people playing... Is that really fair?
I'm not convinced regarding the sugested nerfs... If you limit the launching to before :55, you will only make an incentive not to go with a heavy strat. The principle is the same regardless if you use PL def or normal def. A dedicated DC can stop a greater number of people putting effort into making a good attack.
In my opinion activity among the greater number of people should be rewarded. So the ally-def should be removed. Wether it will help the playerbase or not, who knows - but it incentives the wrong things in my opinion.
__________________
[G-II][Quha][LDK][Apprime][Ultores] - Xerxes
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23 Sep 2016, 23:36
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 13
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
The biggest problem is the "bandwagon" effect.
People say that making offensive stats will counter the "defensive game" issue, but that again increases the bandwagon effect.
There is no reason, at all, NO REASON WHAT SO EVER to hit a top tag unless you know they will have over 60 incs, you simply cannot and will not land them ever.
Just give HR defence fleet, and remove it for the rest
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i do agree, it should be removed. That said we will cover 80% less...hopefully attack activity will go up again when members start loosing roids again ;-)
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23 Sep 2016, 23:47
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#38
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Well a little data, wich might be slightly tainted.
Prior to the last week:
BowS only went into red 10 days this round.
Those 10 days was during incs 100+.
All other days they were able to cover enough to not go into red.
This goes for Ult aswell, the only time they lost roids was during the time they were being blocked.
The same goes for p3nguins, wich also only went into red the days they had 100+ incs.
This encourage blocking.
If a alliance dont get targetted, its very unlikely they are gonna lose enough roids to put em in red.
The average planet sends out around 1 attack fleet on average each night, so this means that if a 60 man tag is gonna target another 60 man tag, there will be no roids loss if they dont come with a bandwagon large enough to break the "pain barrier".
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28 Sep 2016, 21:33
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 40
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Alliance def fleets help the casual player. I think it's a great new feature if I'm
Honest.
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Kez
R62 Rogues Rank 192
R63 Terra Rank 39
R64 Terra - defence duties
R65 Faceless - defence duties
R66 Faceless - rank 90 (inactive half of round)
R67 Norseman - Rank 26
R68 Norseman - Rank 19
R69 P3nguins - Rank 22 - Scanner
R74 Faceless - Rank 4
R75 Heresy - Rank 15
R76 RaGe - Rank 4 - defence duties
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29 Sep 2016, 08:34
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 27
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
It simply makes it far too easy to cover attacks. Last round I found the odd target, calced it, thought about it and then thought 'screw it, what's the point. There's going to be one alli def page wizard clicking stuff to cover the attack in seconds. Pointless'
Please remove this feature
Please
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29 Sep 2016, 16:11
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#41
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speed demon
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: SX!!
Posts: 343
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheggers
It simply makes it far too easy to cover attacks. Last round I found the odd target, calced it, thought about it and then thought 'screw it, what's the point. There's going to be one alli def page wizard clicking stuff to cover the attack in seconds. Pointless'
Please remove this feature
Please
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Agree entirely. Especially with tag limit at 60.
That's 60 defence fleets 1 person can launch.
A bit overpowered for bigger alliances.
When tag limit is 40, the alliance def fleet may not be such a big deal, as less def fleets obviously!
Definitely need some scaling here. Or some formula to limit it.
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2 Oct 2016, 15:11
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
removing it just benefits those who use other "solutions" more, alliance fleet levels the playing field a bit and reduces sms/ring costs.
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2 Oct 2016, 16:51
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#43
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
removing it just benefits those who use other "solutions" more, alliance fleet levels the playing field a bit and reduces sms/ring costs.
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There is more to this issue than who benefits most from the alliance defense fleet, though. There's also the question whether or not it makes the game better, or more fun, or whatever metric you like to apply.
(I quoted you, gm, but just as an example.)
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2 Oct 2016, 18:29
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#44
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
removing it just benefits those who use other "solutions" more, alliance fleet levels the playing field a bit and reduces sms/ring costs.
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It only costs so much in SMS ring costs cos the game forces you to be at your most active when your team is asleep. Fix that and you save more
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10 Oct 2016, 22:27
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: Remove alliance defence fleet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Bram,
Are you able to extrapolate which fleets have been sent via ally def slot and which were launched by the actual planet? Might be interesting if we could see which alliance make the most advantage of this.
Also is able to see how many attack or def fleets each alliance pre-aunched?
Finally can we see by daily hour over the course of the round how many fleets an alliance sent on attack and dehence. To see if butcher is right and Norse always attacked at 3pm and whether timezone truly matters. I'm sure alliances could provide nationality of their members
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Numbers now posted in http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?p=3253835
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