Random Gals? Private Gals?

[Tomkat]

We have the ongoing argument that comes every round, questioning whether private gals should be done, or random. It's split pretty evenly, with decent opinions on both sides.

Private does encourage blocking though. And this round is hopefully going to have no blocks.

So I was thinking - why not have private gals, but utilise the hard-coded alliance. Make it so that all members of a private galaxy must be in the same alliance? Of course, pure-alliance gals are annoying to defend with, but if everyone is in the same boat (or has to go random), this could be interesting.

I haven't thought this through thoroughly, and I'm aware that with 75 members per alliance, and 10 people per gal, we'd have 5 odd members per alliance. Thoughts?

[Forest]

Terrible idea IMO.

DoM is based along the same lines, and it quite simply makes it a numbers game.

As soon as all one alliance in the same gal, all u need to do is swamp the gal and u lose. Therefor, the biggest alliance # will win.

As to the original question, I prefer random as a way of meeting new ppl, and complicating politics somewhat.

[The_Fish]

Bad bad bad.

Stagnation will be there from a much earlier stage.

And as for no blocks? BLOCKS ARE GOOD. Overblocking is bad.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Forest

As soon as all one alliance in the same gal, all u need to do is swamp the gal and u lose. Therefor, the biggest alliance # will win.

But with a limit on the alliance number (75) surely most alliances will be the same size?

Yes, I realise that attacking ETAs are the same for attacking, regardless of alliance, but still. If it's a free-for-all, then there shouldn't be much swamping.

I do see your point. Like I said, I haven't thought it through.. I was hoping for this idea to evolve into others, that might be better for PAXI.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

Bad bad bad.

Stagnation will be there from a much earlier stage.

And as for no blocks? BLOCKS ARE GOOD. Overblocking is bad.

Oversimplified imho, tempory blocks arent bad its when they are the kind of perm blocks we have been seeing that they really become a problem.

If a couple of alliances have a common enemy and they want to work together to take them out I see little problem with that, its when alliances decide to block for protection purposes and stay like that for most of the round that its a problem. Blocks should be used as a shirt term thing to deal with an immediate problem not on a long term basis.

As for the actual idea of a single alliance per galaxy, its been brough up on suggestions a few times and I personally think it makes smaller alliance too vunrelable.Its basically a fix to the private galaxies resulting in blocking problem at the expense of the smaller players which isnt good.

As for should it be Random or Private I say neither. When private galaxies were first floated in r3 I raised a number of issues (most of which r4 and on have proven to be true) and instead suggested that the system which has since been labeled Private Packs should be used. It allows everyone to play with a couple of friends which while maybe not as appealing as havinga galaxy full is an improvement over random but because your pack is then mixed with 3 or 4 other packs you then get the 'mixing' thats so good with random. For some reason its never been taken seriously and closest we ahve come was the 'mixed' galaxies of 10 private 5 random which really had very few of the benifits of either system and most of the problems

[Forest]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

But with a limit on the alliance number (75) surely most alliances will be the same size?

Yes, I realise that attacking ETAs are the same for attacking, regardless of alliance, but still. If it's a free-for-all, then there shouldn't be much swamping.

I do see your point. Like I said, I haven't thought it through.. I was hoping for this idea to evolve into others, that might be better for PAXI.

then it becomes roid swap until ppl get bored, so the winners would be those who had no life as adversed to those with no skill.

[Nadar]

I like both private and random gals.. I have nothing against being in any of them, but being in a private gal every round makes it boring.. If we could switch between private and random each round it would be good... One round you play with your friends and the next you get to know new ppl.. Both is good, but I prefer variation..

[Kal]

i agree with Nadar, mainly becuase i want to meet some new people so I don;t need him in my round 12 gal....

[Nadar]

pfft I know you love to have me in your gal + who else can provide you access to all gay pr0n sites if not? Remember, it was u asking me

[Henck]

aah bah bah nadar

but it's a good idea to switch every round to keep every1 happy

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Nadar

I like both private and random gals.. I have nothing against being in any of them, but being in a private gal every round makes it boring.. If we could switch between private and random each round it would be good... One round you play with your friends and the next you get to know new ppl.. Both is good, but I prefer variation..

I actually get the impretion though that pisses people off more than it being one or the other. They get used to it being one way, then they ahve to get used to it being the other. The game needs so stability with its galaxy structure (especially if its random or private packs as the whole element of mixing with others, helping those smaller, passing on knowledge is something this community on the whole has lost the ability to do, people need time to adjust and rediscover this skill)

[Nadar]

wakey, about half the players likes random gals and about half likes private gals.. If we had private gals each round it would piss off the other half and vise versa.. if we have varies between priv and random gals everyone should be happy..

[wakey]

Yes your right BUT (and I havent been around asking this, its just observations over the last couple of rounds) something which seems to annoy everyone, certainly at the lower end of the game IS the lack of stability in the structure. No matter which system they perfer its an issue that unites them all, they may not like the other system but they seem willing to adapt if they have to but switching from one to the other like we have had to put up with over recent rounds is something they arent 'willing' to put up with. This simply makes it alot less clear cut that this is the best system.


Also as ive said already random galaxies of recent rounds suggest these arent things that work on a one round basis anymore, the private galaxy attitude is so deeply rooted in the players attitudes now that I firmly believe any random system would require more than a one or two rounds(at least initially) to get the 'helpful' attitude back . Its something players in this community have lost and its something which is only going to be fully regained by a forcing them into the situations where they can relearn them for a number of rounds.

[Lord_Thunderball]

Yep,

random/private variating each round is fine by me. And cause 1up made a statement going solo, it doesn't mean other allaince will do it as well. Most said they will cause it's a random round anyway(and will block half round like always), but doubt alliances will start solo when a private round is announced.

[Gerbie]

Private packs does not seem to be possible for the next round. Same with one alliance galaxies. It's not as easy to implement as it seems at first glance. The round is near and ofc it should be random. All rounds should have been random. Round 12 is expected to have private packs.

[mist]

private packs arn't that hard to impliment. failing all else, set gals to be 3 member, and then shuffle them together in to bigger gals before ticks start

-mist

[wakey]

ffs mist your just copy pasting everything I post now

[Splashsun]

Originally Posted by mist

private packs arn't that hard to impliment. failing all else, set gals to be 3 member, and then shuffle them together in to bigger gals before ticks start

-mist

agreed on that one.

[Gerbie]

In past rounds shuffling was already hard to do. If you have to merge so many galaxies together it might just get undoable. I'm not sure how they do it all, but aparantly it's not as simple as it looks.

[Psi_K]

Random!

[fuz]

there's no doubt random gals is the absolutely best way to make new players part of the game.. maybe you can find statistics that show we lost players earlier rounds with random gals, but it is the best way for new players to be a part of the game..

random gals is my absolute favourite, both because you meet new people, and because it's better for new players..

[Nadar]

fuz took the words out of my mouth

[Snurx]

Speaking as one of the "small" dudes (I've never been in any big alliance (DYB LOL), nor have I ever been in a top50 gal), I would like a random round. I've not had as much fun as the first few rounds I played, especially round 3, beacause that was when i first grasped the concept of this game. (I left beacause of p2p and private gals) I felt like a part of the game, a part of the war. Now, I feel like a ****ing roid farm.

I think random would give a boost to the small players as well as give the big ones a kick in the ass. Private gals promote stagnation. Packs sounds nice, althought if you need to pack to get in a good gal it sucks. I just want a nice, active, top1 gal for once

[wakey]

Well my view of private packs has always been that randoms would be placed into packs of 3 with other randoms, these packs would then be mixed up along with the private packs and the galaxies created. They would have just as much chance of landing in a good galaxy as any other pack

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

We have the ongoing argument that comes every round, questioning whether private gals should be done, or random. It's split pretty evenly, with decent opinions on both sides.

Private does encourage blocking though. And this round is hopefully going to have no blocks.

So I was thinking - why not have private gals, but utilise the hard-coded alliance. Make it so that all members of a private galaxy must be in the same alliance? Of course, pure-alliance gals are annoying to defend with, but if everyone is in the same boat (or has to go random), this could be interesting.

I haven't thought this through thoroughly, and I'm aware that with 75 members per alliance, and 10 people per gal, we'd have 5 odd members per alliance. Thoughts?

very great idea in my opinion - but also the limit should stay with 100 = 10 galaxies= all of one alliance = REALLY GREAT

and NEVER say again that i never agree with you ! :P

[Tomkat]

Thanks Legator

I see the advantages and disadvantages as follows:

Advantages
-People who want private gals get the opportunity to play with their friends
-Less fencesitting from people from all alliances in the same alliance
-More of a clear "alliance" win, as there is no sharing of galaxies
-Less chance of planned blocking for the round (temporary blocking is ok), as alliances aren't encouraged to spread their forces

Disadvantages
-New players have a possible disadvantage. I'd say combat this by making random gals perhaps 15-20 players big, and private 10 players big.
-With private people lose the chance to meet new people. This could be combatted by giving people the random option.


I actually can't think of that many disadvantages, if the option to go random was there too. Perhaps merge this with the idea of mixing random/fixed gals. Say 10 players, all from 1 alliance, in a galaxy. They get the option to open it to 5 more random if they wish, which would join the galaxy.
So a private galaxy would be 10 people.
A mixed galaxy would be 15 people.
A random galaxy would be 20 people.

Noone will ever agree on the random or private option - you should make a compromise satisfy both.

[Gerbie]

Fixed galaxy sizes are bad. It leads to the formation of new galaxies throughout the round. In random rounds the upper clusters will be even bigger roid farms than in priv gal rounds. What you need is a fixed number of clusters and galaxies. All galaxies should start at 9 or 10 at the end of signup, get shuffled and new players should be placed on top of that. This way new players will end up in existing galaxies.

This option still leaves room for an option with priv galaxies that can or can not open up to new players being placed there.

[mist]

having a fixed number of galaxies, and then basing galaxy size on how many people sign up would be an interesting experiement in "get more people to play if you want all your mates in your gal" type motivation :P

-mist

[Tomkat]

The argument for "private galaxies don't attract people to the game" is rubbish. New people are coming and going all the time. It's nothing to do with private galaxies. If you want to encourage people, try using some kind of referral system. People then spam the link around to get people to sign up. It'd work a lot better.

[Spinner]

1: Referral system is partly implemented, but the effect is yet to be nailed. If it is finished on time, exellent, we shall do what we can to do it.

2: I am currently looking at finding a solution to mix up gals a bit, but it is true I do have limited time on my hands. Much is going on, the new portal seems to be in peril, and I have been forced to try to compentsate with an ingame manual and support system, along with the usual stress of beta, round-completion and havoc etc. But as soon as I know what I can offer in terms of "compromising solutions", I will let you know.
And yes, mixed solutions are more complicated and require changes in some vital aspect of the code, and if you don't belive me, then bugger off (-:
Yeh yeh, maybe that bit of code aint as good as it should be, but it has worked fine up until now

[Barrow|Pony]

If you need more time - delay the round, but do it now as opposed to a day or two before signup.

please? :/

[A2]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

-New players have a possible disadvantage. I'd say combat this by making random gals perhaps 15-20 players big, and private 10 players big.

This was tried in R6 (possibly R7 - I forget which) but lead to it being very easy to identify which gals were random gals and therefore probably less organised and easier to hit.
On the basis that new players are almost certainly going to end up in random galaxies it doesn't seem sensible to mark them out in any special way.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Thanks Legator

I see the advantages and disadvantages as follows:

Advantages
-People who want private gals get the opportunity to play with their friends
-Less fencesitting from people from all alliances in the same alliance
-More of a clear "alliance" win, as there is no sharing of galaxies
-Less chance of planned blocking for the round (temporary blocking is ok), as alliances aren't encouraged to spread their forces

Disadvantages
-New players have a possible disadvantage. I'd say combat this by making random gals perhaps 15-20 players big, and private 10 players big.
-With private people lose the chance to meet new people. This could be combatted by giving people the random option.


I actually can't think of that many disadvantages, if the option to go random was there too. Perhaps merge this with the idea of mixing random/fixed gals. Say 10 players, all from 1 alliance, in a galaxy. They get the option to open it to 5 more random if they wish, which would join the galaxy.
So a private galaxy would be 10 people.
A mixed galaxy would be 15 people.
A random galaxy would be 20 people.

Noone will ever agree on the random or private option - you should make a compromise satisfy both.

i really so much agree with you, hehe.

I actually dont think that there are many disadvantages for the people in random/mixed galaxies - i would go that far that the people of alliances which have their members in such private galaxies get some kind of advantage. Like a better ingal eta for defense - in such galaxies defenseswapping will be essential.

i dont have alot time atm - but i will come with more

[Legator]

Originally Posted by A2

This was tried in R6 (possibly R7 - I forget which) but lead to it being very easy to identify which gals were random gals and therefore probably less organised and easier to hit.
On the basis that new players are almost certainly going to end up in random galaxies it doesn't seem sensible to mark them out in any special way.

yea, you got some point there, but with knowlegde that private galaxies have 10 people of ONE alliance its not that much of an advantage anymore, maybe those alliance in such galorganisation will have to concentrate on others with such galaxies because those who start hitting have an advantage.

if i knew ally a has fleets out on some random galaxy i would certainly try to hit them asap because they have ships out.