Round 11, Changelog

[Gerbie]

Posted by Spinner on 2004-05-14 10:05:25


As mentioned before, there are some changes in the new coming round.
Beta-testing has started, and it seems to be going very well.
Many thanks to Syn_Sid for his work on the brand new stats on all ships, we will release these as soon as they are finished enough to be worth handing out.

The changes so far include (but are not limited to):

- Vacation time has been implemented
- No self-delete while under attack (considering removing the Delete button again alltogether due to sore loosers)
- New ships added (48 ships in the game now, 12 per race)
- New classes created (Fighter, Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battleship)
- All races have 2 different classes of pods
- Production / Fleets / Military updated with new additions
- Donation hole has been fixed, you may no longer abuse the fund max limit, which has now been set to 75.000.000 res alltogether
- Launch_tbl now updated by ticker, not by missions-page, so the launches-ranking is more accurate.
- Traveltime is now class-based, +0 tick for FI+CO, +1 for FR & DE, +2 for CR+BS
- A new resource-stealing covert op is in place, this time targetting the GALAXY FUND
- The MoD can now delete the posts of former members of the galaxy too, not just current members
- Alliance Size is now restricted to 75 members
- The travel-time bug that could occur when fleets returned from combat has been fixed
- A Unit-scan will now reveal Xan's cloaked ships
- There is now also a dump-file for the allilances, pretty much the same list as the universe page holds
- Salvage upped from 20 to 30 %
- Various bugfixes related to the new ships and classes
- All ships have new stats!
- Fixed the duplicate fleetnames bug, AGAIN
- Free accounts no longer see the galaxy inc
- Cluster ETA has been implemented (-1 eta for in-cluster defense, not cumulative with Alliance-ETA-bonus)
- message defenders to recall now has ETA-setting (so you can specify that the defending fleets with i.e. ETA 4 will get the message to recall)
- Unit and Fleet scans now have a little random "interference"

I've seen reactions on several different old threads. I'm interested in what people think.

[Gerbie]

- Vacation time has been implemented

this is good against blocking

- No self-delete while under attack (considering removing the Delete button again alltogether due to sore loosers)

I'd like deletion with a three day delay, so the roids can be redestributed through the universe.

- New ships added (48 ships in the game now, 12 per race)
- New classes created (Fighter, Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battleship)
- All races have 2 different classes of pods
- Production / Fleets / Military updated with new additions
- Donation hole has been fixed, you may no longer abuse the fund max limit, which has now been set to 75.000.000 res alltogether
- Launch_tbl now updated by ticker, not by missions-page, so the launches-ranking is more accurate.
- Traveltime is now class-based, +0 tick for FI+CO, +1 for FR & DE, +2 for CR+BS

This looks better then the old mixing of eta's (cr and bs with fr/de eta's).[quote]
- A new resource-stealing covert op is in place, this time targetting the GALAXY FUND[/quote ]
This sounds like fun

- The MoD can now delete the posts of former members of the galaxy too, not just current members

You must mean MoC here i guess.

- Alliance Size is now restricted to 75 members
- The travel-time bug that could occur when fleets returned from combat has been fixed
- A Unit-scan will now reveal Xan's cloaked ships
- There is now also a dump-file for the allilances, pretty much the same list as the universe page holds
- Salvage upped from 20 to 30 %
- Various bugfixes related to the new ships and classes
- All ships have new stats!
- Fixed the duplicate fleetnames bug, AGAIN
- Free accounts no longer see the galaxy inc

BAD

- Cluster ETA has been implemented (-1 eta for in-cluster defense, not cumulative with Alliance-ETA-bonus)

This might attacking harder and might promote co-operataion between alliances. But it does add something to the game.

- message defenders to recall now has ETA-setting (so you can specify that the defending fleets with i.e. ETA 4 will get the message to recall)
- Unit and Fleet scans now have a little random "interference"

Is it possible to scan multiple times to average this effect out (or have allies make other scans to compare)? Has any beta tester figured out the standard deviation yet?[quote]

[wakey]

- Traveltime is now class-based, +0 tick for FI+CO, +1 for FR & DE, +2 for CR+BS

Bad, for reasons ive stated all too often

- Alliance Size is now restricted to 75 members

Too high

- Salvage upped from 20 to 30 %

Seeing as we dont get points for defending id have liked to see the attackers salvage increased slightly also to make defending a little more rewarding

- Free accounts no longer see the galaxy inc

Rubbish, we may as well not bother with free accounst and have random planets who have basically no ships and lots fo roids for us all to farm

- Cluster ETA has been implemented (-1 eta for in-cluster defense, not cumulative with Alliance-ETA-bonus)

Never been a fan of clusters, always get the impression the only real benift comes to galaxies with big alliance links and that alliance is the dominate one in the cluster, otherwise your basically a farm galaxy

- Unit and Fleet scans now have a little random "interference"

Good scanning is a little too simple as it is

- A Unit-scan will now reveal Xan's cloaked ships

Kind of like this, Xan's do appear to be pretty powerful with the unknown factor, while they still have this as you dont know whats been sent atleast you can now get an idea of what they have to send

- A new resource-stealing covert op is in place, this time targetting the GALAXY FUND

Not sure i like this. depends how its omplimented ofc but could be pretty annoying

- No self-delete while under attack (considering removing the Delete button again alltogether due to sore loosers)

First bit fine, second bit not. If players dont wish to play its better they remove their account than leave it and then cost the galaxy a fortune to get rid of the inactive account

[Spinner]

Keep in mind, these changes are still being both discussed and tested, and there will be several updates / changes / removals from this list as a result.
So dont judge it all just yet, it was meant to be "information" so you know what we are working on etc.
There will be public beta soon, so you can try and see for yourself as well.
So dont take the list as a DEFINATE list, it'll change with feedback and testing results.

[Spinner]

Oh, and did I forget to mention that we are strongly considering going 100% random again?

[Gerbie]

\o/

[CrazyMike]

Originally Posted by Spinner

Oh, and did I forget to mention that we are strongly considering going 100% random again?

Dont think id pay for a game were i couldnt play in the same gal with at least some people i know well.

Why not have partially random gals?

Say like 20% random, so we can choose 8 players for gal and have 2 random, this would benefit new players massively as it would give them the chance to reap the benefits of a well organised galaxy. Ive played random in a few rounds, its ok but not as fun.

CrazyMike

[Spinner]

Controversial as always, random VS private, but one thing is for sure, random rounds make the game interesting for a longer time. But the random galaxies is also why we made sure free accounts could see gal-status, as it puts a decent stop to free-planet spying.
I agree, it is very different to play random gals, some prefer it and some do not.
10.5 was private, so far it seems r11 will be random, doesnt have to be the same every round.
Wether you pay or not is up to you ofc, no doubt.
And every time there is a number of
"I refuse to pay if it is private" & "I refuse to pay if it is not". Last poll shows something like a good 50-50 split, so only fair to do a private game some times, and a random game sometimes.
But keep in mind, it is a good chance for new players to play alongside older veterans, and we do need that recruitment. And if you worry that new players wont upgrade and so cant be much help without gal-status, well, convince them and help them see the light (-:

[_o0o_]

Random is fine. However, are their any plans of doing the packs / buddy combos as many others have suggested time and time again? You still won't know what gal you will end up in, but you and at least one friend could "share the ride"...

[CrazyMike]

my suggestion would seem to offer the best of both worlds... New players would be attracted by the fact that they will be in organised gals with experienced players. And those of us that like to play with our friends will still get to do so.

Even if you made each gal 50% private 50% random it would be great way to bring in new players and allow frineds to stay together.

What do you think of my suggesstion (not what do you think of my oppinion )

CrazyMike

[Spinner]

I have nothing agianst the idea tbh, it is the implementation of it and my half-time involvement that causes a bit of a problem here. Time is ticking fast, and I was forced to do some massive rewrites due to the recent problems with the DB (has to do with InnoDB tables and rowlocking) (in the main game), and so the forces of nature leaves me with too little time.
But I wont give up just yet, and see what I can do about a "mixed" solution.

[Kal]

more mixed solutions are defintly being considered for the all new version of pa - remember that round 11 is only a development of roud 10 and 10.5 which I might add Spinner had allready managed to cram loads of new features, so if some things don;t make it in and you want em, make loud noises on the suggestions forum so they get into the all new pa.

[-=Zyth=-]

Regarding private vs random, why has the example of r6 never been used again but with 3 private 7 random. This helps in that ppl can be with 2 of their m8s, with most of the benefits of private less the whole blocking issue. With 7 random those 3 priv players can also do a bit of 'mentoring'. Yes there is the whole problem of scan/spy (free) planets mucking things up, but making exiling them easier (i.e. not making it a % of the planets size but rather a % of gal income less nominated planets income) would provide a way to counter it.

Co-opping a gals fund is just plain wrong, bringing back the gdf would be on a par...

[Kal]

probelms is it will make attacking easy - as any gal will probably be easy roids.... although - making attacking easier whiel bringing in multi-eta fleets might be worth doing.

[TouRiQueT]

random as in, random payed planets or random payed and free planets?!
________
BLACKBABYDOLL

[Kal]

Originally Posted by TouRiQueT

random as in, random payed planets or random payed and free planets?!

random as in random i'd expect

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Spinner

Oh, and did I forget to mention that we are strongly considering going 100% random again?

For about the 9th round running all I ahve to say is PRIVATE PACKS. Players want to play with friends so they know they have a some people to fall back on BUT the game needs the aspects that random brings as such private packs is perfect.

And tbh it wouldnt be that hard to implement this solution in some rushed manner. Limit galaxies to 3 people each. Then randomly shuffle these galaxies to create galaxies of 12 or 15 . Although you might actually need to have the initial shuffle limit galaxies at say 9 allowing space for 1 or 2 new packs to be shuffled in during the round otherwise you might end up with people being able to abuse the system by signing up late

[Kal]

Originally Posted by wakey

For about the 9 round running all I ahve to say is PRIVATE PACKS. Players want to play with friends so they know they have a some people to fall back on BUT the game needs the aspects that random brings as such private packs is perfect

i think most agree, but its not neccessarily an easy thing to code with such little time before the round starts and so much allready to test.

[TouRiQueT]

random is fine just no free planets mixed with paid ones.
________
Magic

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Kal

i think most agree, but its not neccessarily an easy thing to code with such little time before the round starts and so much allready to test.

See my addition, as ive stated I dont see how it couldnt be implemented with too much hassle. Ok its rough fix to allow it but if theres not time to fully code it it would be a workable solution imho

[Kal]

and how do u know its possible to change the gal size when a gal has people in it? as i said before none of us know how things are coded so can;t say if somehting can easily be done or not.

[mist]

i'm surprised that noone's pointed out the neccessity of playing a race that has fi/co pods available. imo the variable eta is a huge mistake, as it means that out of alliance defence is possible. while alliances don't tend to defend each other this means that any attack which launches at fr+ speeds is going to meet a barrage of multi defence, at least up untill the point where the free planets start to lag behind in eta reseearch. the bigger your pods the longer this is going to be a problem.

given the wonderful history of multi hunting in pa i find it worrying to find people are purposefully implimenting things that make cheating more profitable

-mist

[Gerbie]

I expect most (all?) races to have fi and/or co pods, as with both alliance and cluster def that would be pretty hard to roid with already. Free players can just as well have fr/de/cr/bs pods as they have no chance of landing when a planet has alies any way. Expect most of the ships built to be fi/co, most of which will target other fi/co.

[mist]

on the one hand, i'd hope that all races have a fi/co pod, 'cus otherwise they're a bit screwed, on the other hand... that would be terribly dull.

-mist

[Neferti]

i was previously for variable ETAs but now i am not so sure. static ETAs may be a good thing, for the reasons stated above... i dont think variable ETAs can work properly with the current alliance system.

[Nadar]

What I love most is that there's different ETA's on ship classes again + it adds some extra spice when it's random with cluster alliances

Originally Posted by PA

- Cluster ETA has been implemented (-1 eta for in-cluster defense, not cumulative with Alliance-ETA-bonus)

This means? Cumulative? o_O

[wakey]

It means that defending a alliance mate in your cluster only gives you aan alliance eta bonus so its just -1, rather than giving you cluster and alliance bonus which would have meant -2

[Lord_Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Spinner

I have nothing agianst the idea tbh, it is the implementation of it and my half-time involvement that causes a bit of a problem here. Time is ticking fast, and I was forced to do some massive rewrites due to the recent problems with the DB (has to do with InnoDB tables and rowlocking) (in the main game), and so the forces of nature leaves me with too little time.
But I wont give up just yet, and see what I can do about a "mixed" solution.

Good effort again spinner. I like r10.5 let's see what R11 brings us. Only thing I don't like is the allaince limit, cause I don't think your game will benefit from it, if it was private again, people could choose not to play in the same allainces, but in the same galaxy. Not prolly most people wanne be with friends in one alliance, and it seems some alliances who are keeping this game alive will need to refuse those people. Waiting for beta!

Go Spinner!

[DrunkenViking]

tbh, with this new changes i really hope(and believe) we'll see ppl returning from other games(code rippoffs r9 style). gg.

About Xan ships being showed by unitscan, why not make another scan further down the researchroad, maybe make it so that every planet has to choose from either "xan cloaked scan" or "fleet analysis scan" to make it a bit more dynamic and not so obvious and straight foward?

[nickhall]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Vacation time has been implemented

Good idea imo (altho can be abused - Could maybe be disabled at the end of the round)

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- No self-delete while under attack (considering removing the Delete button again alltogether due to sore loosers)

No deleate when under attack is good, removing altogether may not be a good idea may be genuine reasons for starting again.

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- New ships added (48 ships in the game now, 12 per race)

always good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- New classes created (Fighter, Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battleship)

again always good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- All races have 2 different classes of pods

Thats a good start, dependant on if Zik steel or subvert

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Production / Fleets / Military updated with new additions

ok - not really much info there

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Donation hole has been fixed, you may no longer abuse the fund max limit, which has now been set to 75.000.000 res alltogether

Well fixing things ppl can abuse is always good.

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Launch_tbl now updated by ticker, not by missions-page, so the launches-ranking is more accurate.

good good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Traveltime is now class-based, +0 tick for FI+CO, +1 for FR & DE, +2 for CR+BS

good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- A new resource-stealing covert op is in place, this time targetting the GALAXY FUND

Does anyone use the gal fund?

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- The MoD can now delete the posts of former members of the galaxy too, not just current members

Good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Alliance Size is now restricted to 75 members

Ok fair enough.

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- The travel-time bug that could occur when fleets returned from combat has been fixed

Again fixing bugs is always good.

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- A Unit-scan will now reveal Xan's cloaked ships

What? Xan are ment to be cloaked surely that meens a unit scan shouldnt show them.

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- There is now also a dump-file for the allilances, pretty much the same list as the universe page holds

Good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Salvage upped from 20 to 30 %

Fair enough

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Various bugfixes related to the new ships and classes

Once more bug fixing is good.

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- All ships have new stats!

As long as they ballanced (which with more ppl helping they should be) this is good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Fixed the duplicate fleetnames bug, AGAIN

More bug fixes = good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Free accounts no longer see the galaxy inc

Good idea

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Cluster ETA has been implemented (-1 eta for in-cluster defense, not cumulative with Alliance-ETA-bonus)

Im assuming that there will be no eta bonus for attacking. makes strong clusters very strong - maybe not such a good idea.

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- message defenders to recall now has ETA-setting (so you can specify that the defending fleets with i.e. ETA 4 will get the message to recall)

Good good

Originally Posted by Gerbie

- Unit and Fleet scans now have a little random "interference"

Ok - like what tho showing more/less ships than are there - if so this is only a disadvantage to those who are new/dont spend time on scaning, its easy to figure out if a fleet is true by calcing its score value, and surely if this 'interferance' is significant any good alliance/BG will do a few scans on each planet to confirm the scans are ok which newb's wont be able to do.

[SYMM]

On the whole looks good, but as has been said, randomising scans will hurt small/individual players a lot more than bigger/alliance players. If that's the intention, then fine, but seems a little stupid...
Making free planets unable to see the gal-status also seems counter-productive- would giving the GC of the galaxy the chance to decide this be a better idea?
Unit scan showing xan ships seems to be rather a large step to take. The age-old suggestion of a second unit-scan, higher up the tree, doing this job would appear to be a less drastic step to reducing xan's effectiveness.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

I expect most (all?) races to have fi and/or co pods, as with both alliance and cluster def that would be pretty hard to roid with already. Free players can just as well have fr/de/cr/bs pods as they have no chance of landing when a planet has alies any way. Expect most of the ships built to be fi/co, most of which will target other fi/co.

If you build pure fi/co, expect to be good at attacking but weak to certain attacks.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Zh|l

If you build pure fi/co, expect to be good at attacking but weak to certain attacks.

no one planet can be stong against all attacks anyway, as long as others are prepared to sacrifice this isn't a particularly bad point. plus, there's enough people out there who attack with 3 fleets

-mist

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by mist

no one planet can be stong against all attacks anyway, as long as others are prepared to sacrifice this isn't a particularly bad point. plus, there's enough people out there who attack with 3 fleets

-mist

Its take a hefty amount to cap roids though (for fi/co)

[TheBerk]

- Traveltime is now class-based, +0 tick for FI+CO, +1 for FR & DE, +2 for CR+BS

how will fleet slots work?? and how many will there be??

for example:

youve got 2 lots of ships with different etas, you want to send them to the same planet for the same arrival time. how many fleet slots will this take?

so, youve launched your fleets, (i will asume you have to launch them seperately for this arguement)

your galaxy gets incoming, to send adequate defence you need to send yet another 2 classes of ships with different etas, will this be possible. (this will now equal 4 fleet slots if different eta ships have to be sent seperately)

maybe im not making sense (well, more than likely im not) but i hope this gets my question across.

[SYMM]

"Fleet takes the time of the slowest ship in it" is how it used to work....I see no reason why it would work any differently this time round.

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by TheBerk

youve got 2 lots of ships with different etas, you want to send them to the same planet for the same arrival time. how many fleet slots will this take?
.

You can either stick all ships in the same fleet (which will make the whole fleet go at the speed of the slowest ship there), or two separate ones (in which they will be different speeds, so will need to be launched at different times).

Hope that makes sense?

[TheBerk]

ah ha, cheers

[The_Fish]

Yes to Semi-Private gals. if it can be coded.

[_o0o_]

All pre-PaX rounds had Xan ships cloaked until fleet scans were available. Why change that and make them available to be seen at the same time as other ships (i.e. unit scan)?


Let's just get rid of cloaking all together if that is the case (a la PaX).

[Cayl]

Because this way there's MORE randomness than in those previous round, but less randomness than in the current round.

If Xan stay the same, expect 70% of people to want to play them. How do you prepare for what you can't know in a game where there's no random targetting.

[_o0o_]

Maybe we're not looking at this the right way... you can't tell what ships ANYBODY has until you can do a unit scan. By making Xan fleets available at a unit scan, then absoutely nothing is gained by being cloaked (if we have the race scenario). If it goes back to the way it was in PaX, then we also would have to lose EMP and Sub / Steal capabilities.

By making Xan fleet available at a fleet / jump gate scan (the highest scan), then the Xan still keep their effectiveness until those scans are available (which is a pro / con) and then another race takes over as the "one to be".

If Xan stay the same as they are NOW, then yes, everyone will want to play them. The only way you can tell what fleet a Xan has is if they are not crafty with changing their fleet names and deleting news.

Edited:
Added by being cloaked to make more sense out of sentence #2.

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by _o0o_

Maybe we're not looking at this the right way... you can't tell what ships ANYBODY has until you can do a unit scan. By making Xan fleets available at a unit scan, then absoutely nothing is gained (if we have the race scenario). If it goes back to the way it was in PaX, then we also would have to lose EMP and Sub / Steal capabilities.

By making Xan fleet available at a fleet / jump gate scan (the highest scan), then the Xan still keep their effectiveness until those scans are available (which is a pro / con) and then another race takes over as the "one to be".

If Xan stay the same as they are NOW, then yes, everyone will want to play them. The only way you can tell what fleet a Xan has is if they are not crafty with changing their fleet names and deleting news.

The switch to unit scan rather than fleet scan makes the Xan utterly different from what they were previous rounds. Not only does it remove the entire mystery around them - it thus allows attacks upon them early on. (Many people have always hate to hit Xan because they have no idea what ships the person has). With unit scans, anyone will be able to craft a fleet to hit Xan. But their immunity to fleet scans means it's very hard to judge what a Xan has sent against you - Xan dont attack with just one class (at least from what Ive found out in the beta so far), they attack much more cunningly to succeed and this undoubterly resolves in alot of fleet death for the target.

I'm biased towards Xan, yet I disagree with all the people saying to change Xan back to the fleet scan revealing them. I feel its much more interesting (and probably 'in character') to have their fleets immune whilst incoming.