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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 22:58   #1
Jonas
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Planetarion VS PaX

No, I am not whining about new PA. Nor am I trying to have anything changed. However, I am curious about how many(after playing beta of PaX) that consider PaX better than Planetarion was. Also state if it made you play, or made you quit.

For me: Planetarion were much more fun.

Will I play? Yes, though thats only because I paid before the Beta(even bought 5 credits) And because im involved in a new alliance...I honestly dont think I would have played if it werent for that...

So, no flame and spamm0ring



-Jonas-
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 23:20   #2
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Prefer old Planetarion however I may play depending on if weather I have a phone line when ticks start.

However, if I don't then I doubt I'll play Planetarion again
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 23:34   #3
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Not playing the public Beta

I did play beta though for a reset or two, and I'll most likely play the game, although I'm not very enthousiastic.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 23:35   #4
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I dunno really... there are some things that I really like about it, it also has some things that makes me homesick and want to get back to the old pa...

However I do like that it's all new and that we have to explore the whole game all over again!

If you ask me what I dislike the most is the score system I think, it's kinda odd...

But I do not know what I like more, old or new, think no body knows that for sure! we have to see it fully operational with all alliances full force in it etc, then it's best to decide what is better!
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 23:43   #5
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I agree, it will probably be better when the struggle is on for real, but I dont see why he(they?) had to change EVERYTHING. I mean, if a team has 6 good football players and 5 bad ones, why would they sell them all to buy 11 they are not sure of...

The researc/construction r great in the new one, compare it with the old roidscanning and combat system, add some alliances ingame and make sure its all random thats what id do

someone buy old PA?
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 00:15   #6
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Can't say til we're into the real thing. Could be we're all bored as **** 1 month into the round, could be exciting til December. (or it'll get delayed and it'll be 1 month into the round during December )
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 00:53   #7
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I'm more interested then I thought I'd be ...
It's fun and easy to place, once you figure out WTF you 'should' be doing.
You 'can' lose way more in attacks then before (if planned properly), and defense is going to be a huge pain in the ass for all BCs, but with all that said, I kinda prefer it.

Have to wait to see how the round turns out.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 12:35   #8
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heh, well I quit during round 5. But some silly blokes in ND pulled me back in for round 6 (which I don't regret), eventhough I wasn't supposed to play anymore. It was the people that convinced me.

I said I probably wouldn't be playing round 10 (I left the door a bit open just in case). But this time, even friends won't get me to play.
The game isn't worth my money anymore right now. It's changed, but offers nothing new compared to other games.

I'll just stick to IRC now. (heh, luckily IRC-servers aren't owned by PA, otherwise they may just charge money for being on IRC )
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 13:33   #9
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i like new pa coz everyone who played previous rounds has to rethink its strategy and only those who can adapt will do well. Apply old style pa tactics and you're doomed (though with the last 'tweak' on the scoring calculation it's less obvious now).
Many new features to understand and test that's exciting (may be disappointing when you find the effects are far from spectacular). The most disturbing is the 1 tick only attack/defense, there again you must find new ways of attacking (fake attack is a cool addition).
Zik always appeared to me as the weakest race before, now it is the best one imho (and i'm playing xan), on the contrary Cathaar is the worst... maybe 4 races is too much for the new system as it is not possible to differentiate them enough : Terran and Cathaar are pretty much the same except Cat have less firepower and use more C than M... (is it enough to be a race in itself ?), is there a need for a race that noone who played beta will pick (other than offering good targets) ?
Last I'm enjoying the threads of clueless players so used to applying automatically the same tactics over the last 5 or more rounds of PA... and completely lost now that they have to think and be creative
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 13:47   #10
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Old style planetarion was a more finished product where certain features had been improved for 9 rounds. This ment the game feel was excellent. Screens were reasanobly optimised and the playerbase was used to it. However the gameplay was about as dead as can be. Starting with a tick plan (or even knowing what to do by heart) and then very very basisc strategy that was fully determined by alliances and battlegroups and in the last few round decided the game within the first few weeks of play.

PAX is newer. PAX has lots of rough edges. It is definitly not a finished game. Some parts of the game look or feel sucky (I particularly hate the division of fleets and missions screens). But the game play is new. Not everything is preprogrammed. There is things to find out still. There is no set tactics yet. Influence of alliances and battlegroups is not easy to predict.

Is it better ??
Frankly that is unknown factor. Atm the gameplay is more fun (allthough quite a few people have difficulty adapting) but certainly the gamefeel and look are not up to old PA standard yet. But as in old PA that part of the game will certainly improve and the gameplay has the potential to match the best gameplay that old PA ever offered (probably in r1,r3,r6).

Basically you can still play like you did in old style PA and gather roids and fleet. But to really score you need to put that fleet to good use. Keeping that fleet home and just sending small roidingfleet acompagnied by a few "friends" won't win this round. At least that part is already an improvement.

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Unread 5 Sep 2003, 03:10   #11
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Well, I really cannot say which I like better, I could say I like them the same now really, there have been a many changes, with improvements in some areas of the game, but in others, personally, should have been left untouched, but who knows, maybe they might grow on me like the c/r system did, guess we will have to wait and see, I guess it really comes down to the PA Team wanting a new game, and trying to being in new blood…

At first I was sceptical on the new construction & research system, I to be honest, couldn’t see many people liking it, but then after a while it started to grow on me, I’m not sure this applies to many, but did to me, so for me, the new construction and research system is better.

Moving onto the new combat system, there are a few things’ I dislike about it, one been the missions option, allowing people to set their launch times to like 5:30 for example will mean those who have done particularly well with a good few asteroids are going to have to stay awake a lot longer to make sure they have not been launched on; those who are fans of attacking will love the idea I guess, but those who are more defensive players will probably lean more towards not liking the idea, personally, I think it should not of been implemented.

Coming onto the new score system, well, I don’t see what was so bad about the old system that meant for a change, once again I’m going to have to say, I don’t think it should of been implemented.

The idea of the covert ops is something I rather like, been able to cause chaos at somebody’s planet without even losing a ship, something the defensive players will really like, I have to give the PA Team a pat on the back for introducing this new option.

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Unread 5 Sep 2003, 10:00   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonas
, but I dont see why he(they?) had to change EVERYTHING.
Yes, roids dont exist any more, ships are only for parades, attacks are merely diplomatic missions and the only way to get resources is to tax ur employees.

Myself, I like this game better than old PA, now I can send an attack and not worry about logging in after 1st tick to see how it went, and decide wether or not to recall. Alliance defense is also good, makes it easier to work within an alliance, and with all ships the same eta u can go for bigger ships and still be able to defend. The new score is better than what the old was, now u can get top100 and still be less than 50k value etc. Its more rated after activity, and not size, which imo is better
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Unread 5 Sep 2003, 10:30   #13
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The only reason I'm playing R10 is for my alliance. I feel lethargic about PA at the minute, and I dont think it would be different if it was PaX or PA. I know a few people thinking along the same lines.
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Unread 5 Sep 2003, 19:54   #14
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only reason im playing pax is because i already payed.

those who got most roids are now the biggest ranked ppl in the beta.. im ranked 150 and i havent attacked yet....

i belive you can do very well playing the old way with focusing on roids and growing..

if you dont got ships, you will be bashed, and loose all your score and structure..
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Unread 7 Sep 2003, 18:26   #15
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Well, I dont like PAX really, (tried to delete my beta account even but that feature is missing?). I bought a credit before r9 though so will probably play.
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Unread 7 Sep 2003, 21:07   #16
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I mislike pax...

But I will play:-(
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 04:38   #17
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I find it exiting, but we will have to wait until the Pa X actually starts. I prolly only enjoyed r3 more... Although i got bashed and all it was my first round in pa, so it was unforgetible
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 08:04   #18
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Re: Planetarion VS PaX

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonas
No, I am not whining about new PA. Nor am I trying to have anything changed. However, I am curious about how many(after playing beta of PaX) that consider PaX better than Planetarion was. Also state if it made you play, or made you quit.

For me: Planetarion were much more fun.

Will I play? Yes, though thats only because I paid before the Beta(even bought 5 credits) And because im involved in a new alliance...I honestly dont think I would have played if it werent for that...

So, no flame and spamm0ring



-Jonas-

I played beta and to be honest, it sucks a lot harder than Planetarion. I miss PA. But I will still play PAX though. I guess for the simple fact that the real game is with in the private IRC ch's and servers.
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 09:33   #19
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easy,

Planetarion > PaX
big time.

atm PaX doesn't attract me much.

just playing to hope they will review and see old pa is much more fun.
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 09:35   #20
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btw, summary:

lots of ppl are only playing "because they already paid for the account..."

not looking good imo
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 11:49   #21
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they are both excellent, for very different reasons.
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 18:20   #22
Jonas
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Its looking bad

And im not trying to be negative, but like 20% of my alliance got cold feet 2 days before start, thinking they might not play. Add them to the people who left before the round started and you have how many left?

And there are like 6 people in every gal??
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 19:14   #23
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Re: Its looking bad

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonas
And im not trying to be negative, but like 20% of my alliance got cold feet 2 days before start, thinking they might not play. Add them to the people who left before the round started and you have how many left?

And there are like 6 people in every gal??
I think you can forget the start in two days. That ain't going to happen

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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 21:30   #24
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Wouldnt struct me with a shock, however id expect spinner to announce it if theres any delays.

Whatever makes the game better
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Unread 8 Sep 2003, 22:24   #25
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The old Planetarion was infinitely better. The best parts of of the game have been hacked out and the new stuff does NOT make a compelling game. The in game bashing will assure that a paying n00b never comes back or likely even finishes his round. The community in not self sustaining so unless theres a rewrite that adds the best of the old game back in I doubt I'll be here for another PA. Frankly the beta makes me wish I hadn't prepaid.

Will this make any difference to Spinner? Of course not.

Why post this thread? SO we can all vent, but it won't get those features back cause SPINNER doesn't really listen to us.....just look at what we got for all we've suggested.
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 14:43   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rudmer
easy,

Planetarion > PaX
big time.

atm PaX doesn't attract me much.

just playing to hope they will review and see old pa is much more fun.

playing beta again now, and i have to agree with rudmer.
but i will play PaX ofc :P

but no PaXI (i like that name) for me i think...
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 10:59   #27
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my point of view:
combats: old PA is better (but fleet priority is better in pax)
ships stats: old PA is better
gfx, screen, etc: old PA is better
mining and scans (no more roids scan): pax is better
res/ cons/ engineering: pax is better with some good ideas
covert ops: good idea but not sure that really works

conclusion: why not a new pa with old ship stats + new pax planet managment?
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 11:18   #28
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I agree. actually thought of making a thread like that...

Id say

Old Shipstats
Old Combat
New Con/Res
New Ingame Alliance
Old Scanning
New Looks(with skins)
I could live with new roid system, however im a big fan of the scanning part of old PA.
Id drop the Covert ops.

How would others think of a PA like this?

-Jonas-
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 11:32   #29
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hmm no. remove wave amps
then all planets can scan.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jonas
I agree. actually thought of making a thread like that...

Id say

Old Shipstats
Old Combat
New Con/Res
New Ingame Alliance
Old Scanning
New Looks(with skins)
I could live with new roid system, however im a big fan of the scanning part of old PA.
Id drop the Covert ops.

How would others think of a PA like this?

-Jonas-
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 11:36   #30
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New shipstats, but give us details+tools to make it easy to use
New combat+travel
Old research (as far as possible with the other changes)
Ingame alliances
New scanning (wave amps and jammers should be removed)
Old score system (not 2 different types of score, no score for killing ships/destroying structures)
I don't care about looks or covert ops.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 13:03   #31
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Old PA was boring as hell after 10 rounds of it. Unbelievable how so many seem to have forgotten that now. The game was just totally dominated by alliance politics and cheating players.

It definitly need to go. People asking for things back from old PA should get either get to some other game or change their thinking and look at thingly more positive. The game is moving to another direction and wheather you like it or not it will still happen.

It is now getting time for all the whinging to stop and for all those that cannot handle all the changes to move on or shut up about 'old' PA.

Get over it it !!!!

hAl
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 13:20   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Al_zz
Old PA was boring as hell after 10 rounds of it. Unbelievable how so many seem to have forgotten that now. The game was just totally dominated by alliance politics and cheating players.

It definitly need to go. People asking for things back from old PA should get either get to some other game or change their thinking and look at thingly more positive. The game is moving to another direction and wheather you like it or not it will still happen.

It is now getting time for all the whinging to stop and for all those that cannot handle all the changes to move on or shut up about 'old' PA.

Get over it it !!!!

hAl
For the millionth time hAl you can't force people to love PaX just because you do. Believe it or not many of us still enjoyed old Planetarion, fine the game wasn’t perfect but it gave us an environment to play in which was perfect for fostering a community and letting alliance politics play out, all old Planetarion needed were a few teaks here and there not a whole new game. Spinner has just created an inferior game and driven away many of the people who loved the old game. 80% of the community have rejected PaX, there are no new players coming (Without a free round) so keep encouraging people to leave and keep hitting those nails into the coffin. Then maybe you Andy_r and Gayle can play PaX on your own.

I’d say:
Old Planetarion stats (However a simplified version should be released)
Old Planetarion Combat/ETA style (However, keep the tactics system)
Keep Covert Ops however change how they’re done as I described in a thread a while ago:
Quote:
Fifthly is the oh so vaulted covert op system. I do like the idea behind it for the reasons tauric suggested it gives small planets the ability to instantaneously hit back against larger aggressors however as seems to be the trend with Planetarion the implementation is sloppy. As it stands now the system is over powered, players can cheaply launch as many covert operations as they want and there is almost no defence against them, I seem to remember in one beta where MrL was number one and he was losing something like 2 ship yards a tick (Bearing in mind it takes like 12 ticks to build new ones this has the potential to cripple planets). If the present system stays as it is I think I'll probably get some retired people to sign up planets for me, have them act as covert op bases so they can be unleashed on people who annoy me (Or alternatively as I'm sure some people will do just multi). What I was expecting when I first read the news about espionage was you would be given character slots, you'd have a limit of say 3-5 agents who you trained (Built basically however they would be extremely expensive) who had their own attributes which grew as they performed missions as they grew in experience additional missions which the agents could perform would be unlocked (Kind of like the character system in Warcrat 3). Of course there was also a chance the agent could be captured or killed. At the very least I expected that you would have to train agents kind of like the current scan system (With covert centres acting like wave amplifiers). As it stands at the moment launching covert ops is simply a no brainier, it requires very little thought and can be done instantly, while I'm sure this will be fun for a week or so, clicking "Launch Operation" time and time again is hardly a challenge. Imagine just imagine how good it could be if this was implemented properly what you have now is an over powered scan page.
New Research however the scan tree needs to be shortened in fact I may be tempted to do away with scan research all together
Old Score System
New Scanning/Initiation
New Construction
In Game Alliances
New Skins
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 14:44   #33
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I dislike pax (the beta;s i played)
I am playing it only because i payed. This will be my final round.
Am also playing the pa clone. this pa clone is now more like planetarion then pa is.

Nice in this clone is that the ingame alliance automatically sees incoming on the defense screen..
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 15:08   #34
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let's wait until the end of PaX....just playing beta without much fun doesnt mean PaX is crap.....I bet it will be a nice round....even with all the new ingame-****

btw....the ingame features with AD and the ingame-defence/attack-things is the greatest bull**** I've ever seen in the PA history...but that's no reason to run away for this fun

Good old IRC....Defence and Attacks are working much better than ingame
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 15:15   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
For the millionth time hAl you can't force people to love PaX just because you do.
Stop twisting peoples words !!! I don't say people have to love PAX (and btw, allthough I like certain features of it I certainly do not love it, it is just to new and needs development) they just need to get over the whinging about wanting old PA back cause THAT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN however long they whinge. It would be much better if people stopped complaining and started with a positive outlook.

Btw, your comments about 80% having rejected PaX are bollocks. I see enough people working on how to play this new game and have more pre-round interest in the actual gameplay than any round since round six when everybody was wondering about the introduction of races.

Sure many people still object to certain features in PA round X but that is always with big changes. Round ten will prove them wright or wrong and based on that oppinons the features might change again for round XI and so on.

hAl
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 16:06   #36
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At this rate there won't be a round 11, thats the problem. Old people are leaving due to the drastic changes, meanwhile finding other (better) things to do with a high chance of never returning for a r11 anyway. And come on, the majority of new people are not going to pay for this game, the price is too high, and its nothing so special about it which justifies it.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 19:12   #37
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Old PA were free when it started, that made everyone get their m8s and family to try it, and they who liked it stayed, and that was a huge amount. It kept living on after p2p came because it had so many players, and it ha built itself a community. Yes, it was decreasing, but it aint gone up now. PaX is a 'new' game. People rarely pay for a new game. The only players there are here now, are here cause of Planetarion. If PaX were a new game, with no history and suc, it wouldnt stand a chance starting as pay2play.

I honestly think spinner should show a bit of respect to what he created himself :/ I played r2-r9.5 and I were not tired of PA. And with a few new things and better control of alliances it could be a fair and even game.

-Jonas-
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 23:10   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by masochist
conclusion: why not a new pa with old ship stats + new pax planet managment?
I have the solution for the ship stats: http://home.iprimus.com.au/rourkek/Production48.html

I must say, i am quite fond of the idea of using old ship stats (and to an extent combat - though tbh the old system needed some revision at the least) in the R10 environment. I believe its appeal lies greatly with mixing the old with the new - it provides a basis for old players (by old, i mean R1 to R9.5 type PA ) to 'have under their belt' and thus allow them to enjoy other aspects of the game. I believe the Engineering, fleet priorities, new scanning/initiation etc are all good ideas. And tbh i am a fan of Covert Ops - particulary because i tend to be towards the bottom ranks . (btw, somone posted above that MrJ Kairi was loosing some 2 structures a tick when he was #1 - i would like to point out that this is the 'raison de etre' for covert ops - to stop the top players from growing exponentially and being out of reach from the rest of the universe. Thus your statement unlines that the covert ops is fulfilling its role .)

But what Gerbie said,
Quote:
New shipstats, but give us details+tools to make it easy to use
is what i would like to be done - except with the Old stats. I remember Spinner telling me that he wanted to simplify the ships and combat system so that new players would not be daunted (my word not his :P) by this long list of ships (eg my stats above) whilst also not knowing how each individual aspect of each ship (WPSP, power, guns etc) worked.

What if, (heh) these old stats could be displayed in a variety of means to suit those the best. For example, i could go through that list of ships and give them relative ratings (like the current beta ones with 'poor' 'excellent' etc). Another button would display the ships as they are now, and an additional button would display the stats as a matrix (or three) [any further simplifications that you may have would be useful - i'm too old skool to think that far out of the box :\].

Thus: this combination allows the best bits of old (complex ships and the (greater) tactics that evolve from them), combined with the good/fun/balancing bits of the new (virtually everything else), whilst at the same time does not disadvantage the new player (overly) with a less-steep learning curve than old pa, (and not boring the old players).

Tbh its a best of both worlds...
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 00:13   #39
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The "old" stats were not overly complicated. The manual was just utterly crap.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 04:30   #40
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Heartshunter
The "old" stats were not overly complicated. The manual was just utterly crap.
Clearly, then, the stats had to go. :/

The ships stats didn't seem daunting to new players back before p2p. I guess people were a lot smarter back then.
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 08:43   #41
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i have to say that I like PAX. It's a good game which I've quite quickly got the hang of due to playing the betas.

However, I'm still saddened by the demise of normal PA: I remember one cold morning as round 7 was about to start, as i printed out the stats and started calcing my best possible Cathaar fleet...oh happy days...

It'd be very interesting to see, as suggested by Ultimate Newbie, a cross-over between the two:
Old ship stats, without T3=ALL
Priorities for fleets
Covert Ops

IMHO this'd be a great game - shame it'll never happen.

I think that people can cope with the 'complicated' ship stats as long as there's a decent manual that explains it all - without it, old PA was quite challenging. You definatly needed teh calcs
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 09:44   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nonentity
i have to say that I likewithout it, old PA was quite challenging. You definatly needed teh calcs
You did ? Frankly out of lazyness I used them sometimes when I had several scans to add.

But frankly attack calcing was easy to do from the start without the aid of a site and later in a round I could roughly estimate required def fleets on multiple incomings to within about 10% of optimal def requirements ina few seconds (not that that def was always availlable to send out though).

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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 18:03   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonas
I honestly think spinner should show a bit of respect to what he created himself :/ I played r2-r9.5 and I were not tired of PA. And with a few new things and better control of alliances it could be a fair and even game.
-Jonas-
Hehe, sure thing Jonas, it is clearly all up to me wether we have a free round or not. And I dont need to remind you that we did in fact just have a free round trying to reclaim more players.
I am afraid it takes a lot more than that.
If it was up to me, that is , which it isnt (:
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 18:07   #44
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Well, Jonas mentioned "fair game", not "free game".
Those are 2 very different words, with very different meaning.
Not trying to diss your knowledge of the english language or anything, just pointing it out.

Edit: heh, sorry... just read the original post.. and not just your quote from it. Oh well
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 18:16   #45
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In many ways, Planetarion is back in its early days.
Much is new, much is unknown, and much is certainly "rough", and certainly not primed yet.
IT took old PA 3 years to get to where it was, and continuing with the same game was not an option. Why? Its technology.

First of all, it was written in C++, and since we needed me to be an active programmer, that was out of the question.

Second of all, it required an expensive database license.

Third, it was a house of cards. Being constantly "changed" and "added to" over 10 rounds has a price. It also had a complexity of a mid--sized miracle, with so many things made in so many ways ot support the preassure from XXX thousand users.

Fourth, maintenance was a bit... with the old system. Trust me on this, dying pages, db proxies, 4 layers of technology talking together just on the backend etc. No fun.

So a total rewrite was required no matter how we looked at it.

The choice then, was to rewrite the exact old PA we had, in a new language based on newer technology, or try to change PA to be new, innovative, AND perhaps as important, into a system that could handle being aded to and expanded with time.
Sure, we dont have cloaking now, or EMP, but if things go as I want to, we will find a way of combining this with the new tactics system. I am sure certain elements have been overpowered and underpowered, and in fact, in all the memorable rounds, something has been (:
Its the first round of a brand new PA, but if we are allowed to continue to develop it from this stage, it can be one heck of a game.

And, of course, we cant do everything at the same time. Jolt is breathing down on us pointing to deadlines, pointing out monthly costs, I have been putting 66% of my own salary this year back into Jolt just so I could go on doing this (fudge too). Yes, we are stupid, but we have passion.

And its all up to you, you can be Hicks and discourage people from playing, or you can do the opposite which will improve Planetarion round by round. Hicks has shown his intentions, and I am sad to see people wanting to ruing a game for others by taking a personal grunt here, but there are some in each basket.

We are in no way short on ideas or coming changes when looking ahead, but now its PaX : Genesis. We'll see how it goes with all the unknowns (:
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 18:17   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonas
Old PA were free when it started, that made everyone get their m8s and family to try it, and they who liked it stayed, and that was a huge amount. It kept living on after p2p came because it had so many players, and it ha built itself a community. Yes, it was decreasing, but it aint gone up now. PaX is a 'new' game. People rarely pay for a new game. The only players there are here now, are here cause of Planetarion. If PaX were a new game, with no history and suc, it wouldnt stand a chance starting as pay2play.
I honestly think spinner should show a bit of respect to what he created himself :/ I played r2-r9.5 and I were not tired of PA. And with a few new things and better control of alliances it could be a fair and even game.
-Jonas-
There, his full quote (-:
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 19:21   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner
In many ways, Planetarion is back in its early days.
Much is new, much is unknown, and much is certainly "rough", and certainly not primed yet.
IT took old PA 3 years to get to where it was, and continuing with the same game was not an option. Why? Its technology.

First of all, it was written in C++, and since we needed me to be an active programmer, that was out of the question.

Second of all, it required an expensive database license.

Third, it was a house of cards. Being constantly "changed" and "added to" over 10 rounds has a price. It also had a complexity of a mid--sized miracle, with so many things made in so many ways ot support the preassure from XXX thousand users.

Fourth, maintenance was a bit... with the old system. Trust me on this, dying pages, db proxies, 4 layers of technology talking together just on the backend etc. No fun.

So a total rewrite was required no matter how we looked at it.

The choice then, was to rewrite the exact old PA we had, in a new language based on newer technology, or try to change PA to be new, innovative, AND perhaps as important, into a system that could handle being aded to and expanded with time.
Sure, we dont have cloaking now, or EMP, but if things go as I want to, we will find a way of combining this with the new tactics system. I am sure certain elements have been overpowered and underpowered, and in fact, in all the memorable rounds, something has been (:
Its the first round of a brand new PA, but if we are allowed to continue to develop it from this stage, it can be one heck of a game.

And, of course, we cant do everything at the same time. Jolt is breathing down on us pointing to deadlines, pointing out monthly costs, I have been putting 66% of my own salary this year back into Jolt just so I could go on doing this (fudge too). Yes, we are stupid, but we have passion.

And its all up to you, you can be Hicks and discourage people from playing, or you can do the opposite which will improve Planetarion round by round. Hicks has shown his intentions, and I am sad to see people wanting to ruing a game for others by taking a personal grunt here, but there are some in each basket.

We are in no way short on ideas or coming changes when looking ahead, but now its PaX : Genesis. We'll see how it goes with all the unknowns (:
Rarely that your posts make so much sense ;-)

hAl
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 21:09   #48
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Quote:
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I guess people were a lot smarter back then.
Nah mate - the smart people left
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 21:58   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spinner

...
long post
...

Those early days... Back then Planetarion was small and new, but grew bigger and became better known. Why was that?
I doubt it was because of server stability and that kinda stuff.
A better reason would be that it was free to play.
Another reason was that people got their friends to play.

Round 4 was the top round, based on the number of accounts. Whether or not those belonged to bot armies doesn't matter here.
Was it round 5 or round 6 that P2P was introduced? Anyway, the decrease in accounts was obvious, even to a blind man. Ok, you could argue that some people left because of the changes in gameplay. Then again, we've seen those changes from round 1 to round 4 as well, and the number of accounts grew and grew.
I'd say P2P is the main reason for the decrease of a once huge playerbase.


Now PaX : Genesis...
You wanted a new game, atleast that's what you were claiming all the time. This means a more or less untested formula. People don't know what to expect. Add to that the P2P factor, and people will surely hesitate to sign up. OK, granted they have a free trial period to check it out.

In the last rounds of Planetarion we saw a major decrease in number of players. PaX, whether you like it or not, still thrives on the same people.
There is one important point to be brought up here:
The current players don't get other friends to play. Why is that? I'd say it's the 'new formula & P2P' combo. Most of their friends have already quit in previous rounds and aren't willing to return, for various reasons (real life, P2P, gameplay changes).

Add to this that PaX isn't really that new infact. Anyone who has played some other online games and the PaX beta/trial should see resemblances. (Ironically one of the Utopia servers is called Genesis ) Then why pay for something here, when elsewhere it's free?
You say you have various ideas in your head, but they haven't been implemented yet. No offense, but people pay to play with what is available, not with what's going through your head This isn't a stockmarket.


But well, you've made your decisions. And by all means, I do hope (against better knowing) you'll get more people to play (and finally earn yourself a decent pension ). Perhaps then I'll play again as well...
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Unread 11 Sep 2003, 22:17   #50
furball
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ALL HAIL KING SPINNER!!!


(seriously)


If PaX wasn't p2p, I'd predict a lot of people signing back up to try out the new game. Most are willing to try it (such as my r9.5 gal mates), and it's simply the old Alliance HC (like Hicks) who are doing their worst to hurt the game. His (and others') pettyness amazes me. Yes, Planetarion has always had faults - but everything does. Having played SS for a round, I'm glad that Planetarion still exists.

The PA-clones have nothing on the IRC community that surrounds Planetarion, and that's why the game is so successful. Everyone is willing to do their bit in places like #betatesters and the beta forums, especially since most of the flamers have been kicked out.

I'll miss the old PA, and am hoping that PAOL 2003 comes out soon but PaX is a new adventure as far as I'm concerned and it's gonna be fun!!!



Spinner - have a bunny for replying


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