Top gal

[Xeno]

Here we go again, then. Who's throwing the first rock?


Xeno

[JC]

Right here is the only official word you will get on this.

6 of the 10 planets in the top galaxy have been closed for cheating. The reasons why they have been closed will not be made public as is always the case. This is a matter between the multi-hunters and the planets involved only.

If you are one of the planets closed in this galaxy then please direct all enquiries to NB3, A2, Phil, Mit and Mrbrick via IRC. If possible try contacting NB3 before anyone else

[Hector]

Surely the basics can be given.

i.e. Closed for the (deliberate)(persistent) abuse of x bug in the game code.

While it might be wrong for everyone to know the particulars of a given closure I don't see any reason why a list of closed planets and the general reason can't be posted in the forums.

I aware that "it's not a fkin democarcy" but it doesn't need to be Stalinist Russia either. This sort of secrecy can only lead to misgivings about the motives and or dedication of the multi-hunting team.

[Yam]

not A2, he's having computer problems so wont be online for at least a week.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Hector

Surely the basics can be given.

i.e. Closed for the (deliberate)(persistent) abuse of x bug in the game code.

While it might be wrong for everyone to know the particulars of a given closure I don't see any reason why a list of closed planets and the general reason can't be posted in the forums.

I aware that "it's not a fkin democarcy" but it doesn't need to be Stalinist Russia either. This sort of secrecy can only lead to misgivings about the motives and or dedication of the multi-hunting team.

Its not up to me, i'm not a member of PA team and so like you i dont know any reasons why planets are closed.

It is PA team policy not to discuss reasons of clusre with anyone other than the planet owner. Its a bit like doctor-patient confidentiality.

[Xeno]

Originally Posted by JC

Its a bit like doctor-patient confidentiality.

Wrong. The appropriate analogy would be the judge-felon one, a figure of speech that immediately lets you know there's something awfully wrong with the logics here. Whereas a doctor's options are limited due to the confidentiality agreement with his pasient, the very nature of the judge's ruling is to be widely spread and communicated to the masses.


Xeno

[JC]

Apologies for my slightly mis-leading analogy, let me rephrase it for you and say once again:


It was, is and probably always will be PA team policy to only discuss reasons of closure with the owner of the planet that has been closed.


I hope that has cleared everything up.

[isildurx]

owned

[mikay]

Originally Posted by Hector

Surely the basics can be given.

i.e. Closed for the (deliberate)(persistent) abuse of x bug in the game code.

While it might be wrong for everyone to know the particulars of a given closure I don't see any reason why a list of closed planets and the general reason can't be posted in the forums.

I aware that "it's not a fkin democarcy" but it doesn't need to be Stalinist Russia either. This sort of secrecy can only lead to misgivings about the motives and or dedication of the multi-hunting team.

Probably the main reason not to divulge information is because people will prejudge them. This was the case recently when some people were up in arms because closed planets got reopened - they just assumed closed=guilty.

When you accept the EUA you ot only accept the rules as they are define, you accept the way PAteam or whoever operate them.

To the best of my knowledge 1 guy who was closed was allied, a minimum of 3 of them were hostile. I'm certainly not going to be biased for them I just fail to see how anyone can possibly benefit from knowing until there is definite proof.

[General1]

I heard 1 player had an account in gal X after that he went to gal Y oh and he was ex ldk last hmmmmmmmmmmm

LET THE FLAMING BEGIN

[Remy]

Originally Posted by Xeno

Here we go again, then. Who's throwing the first rock?


Xeno

Why throw rocks? Is that what these forums are all about? Why dont we all go play our account and not bother flaming constantly. I normally read forums, but so far most i see is mud-throwing, flaming, bickering, etc.

Lets do something more constructive.....

[Leshy]

I heard they were caught in some dark ritual involving the murder of innocent babies.

(Ironically, the EULA doesn't state anything about this )

[General1]

Originally Posted by Leshy

I heard they were caught in some dark ritual involving the murder of innocent babies.

(Ironically, the EULA doesn't state anything about this )

That was a guy called Michael Jackson

[gzambo]

Originally Posted by General1

That was a guy called Michael Jackson

wat alliance is he in

[General1]

Originally Posted by gzambo

wat alliance is he in

I was under the impression he was in Ilikekids, bu maybe he changed in the last week.

[Backbone]

he's now in WeLikeEmToo

btw, it is not proven that he is guilty. He might be weird but he does not have to be a paedophile.

but back to pa: Why doesnt pa-team publicise the deletions and the reasons for that then? I can understand that they dont tell us the closed planets because some are innocent, but the really guilty ones we should know about.

[Aryn]

same reason companies don't publish reasons why employees have been fired. it's confidential and no one NEEDS to know. it's just people being nosey :P

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Aryn

same reason companies don't publish reasons why employees have been fired. it's confidential and no one NEEDS to know.

Of course no one needs to know, but in a game that suffers from chronic and pervasive mistrust in the rules enforcement procedures and personnel, it seems like it would be to PA's advantage to publicize this information.

it's just people being nosey :P

Well, that too.

[Tomkat]

Who cares what the reason was, they'll come on in a week or so anyway with some cruddy excuse and get undeleted.

[G.K Zhukov]

I fear your right Tomkat.

[DrunkenViking]

i just dislike the fact that planets gets closed and reopened.... I think you either should gather more evidence before closing, or not reopen closed planets. Cause this closing/reopening policy is ruining the round for both the player involved, and his alliance. I actually feel sorry for Kj among others, cause i know that noone can have 100% control over members making sure they dont cheat. Ofc. Kj wouldn't be attacked this hard on AD if he didn't reply with stupid posts against ones making stupid posts about fang(like myself i must say :\ )

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

you either should gather more evidence before closing, or not reopen closed planets.

So true.
It doesn't help anyone. Messes up the round for the player, or his/her alliance. And it makes things complicated when people have to backtrack their accusations of cheaters etc.

What is the point of giving people the access to close people, when you can't give them the access to reopen them? Just a bit pointless really.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

this closing/reopening policy is ruining the round for both the player involved, and his alliance.

And those 4 in the gal that arnt closed.

Arent these planets monitored all round anyway?
Isnt it strange that they get closed just 1 tick after the 2nd gal launched on a planet in the top gal?
Isnt it strange things such as proxy logs and other info are available to open the planets?
Isnt it strange that NB3 wasnt on irc to discuss it?

Well I think it is

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Messes up the round for the player, or his/her alliance.

Leaving people who are strongly suspected of cheating open of course doesn't ruin anyone's round, nor does it gather complaints ("Everyone knows he's cheating! I have IRC Logs!")

[Hector]

I'm quite sure the last time witchhunters were employed was during the Inquisition. Would it be so hard to have a panel of 5 (Senior) Multihunters that a single person reports to. They then interview the suspect and render a decision on the future of that persons planet.

Be it a hefty (and I *do* mean *LARGE*) fine & publishing of details for a first (or less serious) offence to expulsion from the game for latter (or more serious) offences.

Right of appeal should be very limited.

Imo this is a very workable solution. It complies with the Users Agreement and could be operated within current structures.

I wonder, however, whether I'll even see feedback on it from the creators.......

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Hector

I wonder, however, whether I'll even see feedback on it from the creators.......

If you weren't describing the situation PA currently (more or less) has, then sure.

[Hector]

With all due respect Leshy that's bollocks.

The current situation is that an individual hunter weighs up the merits of the case and reachs a decision. Planet closed.

Planet owner whinges/cajoles/bullys/etc. said hunter until his planet is reopened.

Where is the transparency? Where is the fairness? To be honest the current situation PA has is a shambles. And cheating, more than bugs, more than poor coding, more than anything else (imo, obviously) leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The fact that cheaters and their antics are covered up with a veil of secrecy discredits the game and the PA team, who in my opinion do an otherwise excellent job under difficult circumstances.

If this game wants to grow and this community wants to expand then this sort of elitist buddyism(*1) must be brought to heel. These ppl might deserve some respect for the amount of time they've been in the community but during a round they pay the same as everyone else and should be treated accordingly. It's a MMOG, not a game of Bridge at the gentlemens club over cigars and brandy.

The current hunting situation is a disgrace, not to the hunters, who I'm sure do the job as well as anyone given the strictures placed on them but to the people in charge who are allowing this farce to continue.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Hector

The current situation is that an individual hunter weighs up the merits of the case and reachs a decision. Planet closed.

There is no i in team .

If a multi-hunter finds a planet (s)he suspects of cheating they report back to the rest of the team and discuss it. More evidence is gathered, which is discussed between all of them and then a group decision is made based on all the available information. Or so i believe anyway.

It is not a biased decision by one multi hunter who has a particular grudge against someone.

[Hector]

Originally Posted by JC

It is not a biased decision by one multi hunter who has a particular grudge against someone.

And we know this how? Who says? The secret multihunter society?

Why can't we know these things? Why is it a big secret?

Why do I have to have all these questions regarding something that should be obvious and transparent? You say yourself JC that it's to the best of your knowledge. Meaning you don't really know either.

I believe that there should be a public, set procedure to guard against abuses of the game. I don't think this is too much to ask. Also, at the end of the day it is an individual hunter who closes a planet. Final decision rests with them. Or so I believe.......

[JC]

Originally Posted by Hector

You say yourself JC that it's to the best of your knowledge. Meaning you don't really know either.

True what i said is just the way i believe it happens rather than an official reply.

I will try to catch the attention of a multi-hunter, or MrBrick and point them in the direction of this thread. Hopefully they will be able to give us a better insight into how it all works.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Hector

With all due respect Leshy that's bollocks.

The current situation is...

No offense, but I may have more of an idea how the multihunting team works than you do.

And what JC says, is indeed correct. Closures, especially those of the bigger planets are discussed with several multihunters, they are not 'just closed on a whim' by whomever happens to get a report in.

The fact that cheaters and their antics are covered up with a veil of secrecy

The word you are looking for is discretion. It's none of your business or anyone else's why a certain planet was closed, but that of PA Team and the owner of the planet in question. This applies to all planets that are closed, not to some sort of elitist club of top-ranking planets, as you seem to think is the case.

Why can't we know these things? Why is it a big secret?

What exactly is the secret? If you are suspected of cheating and there is sufficient evidence, your planet is closed, you will receive a mail from one of the multihunters and get the chance to exonerate yourself. If you can prove that you are innocent, your planet will be reopened, if you can't, it'll remain closed and be deleted.

[RealJames]

Not quite the flame-fest I was expecting, although I heard Michael Jackson joined YOUNG (Youth Of Utopic Neverland Groped).

Tbh, whilst the cases are being investigated the details should be private, if a planet is closed then the perpetrator should be named and shamed for all to see (and abuse). Could we have an cyber-stocks for us all to throw our rotten etomatoes at the cheats?

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally Posted by Stew

And those 4 in the gal that arnt closed.
Isnt it strange that NB3 wasnt on irc to discuss it?
Well I think it is

do look up the following terms

University
Final Year Project
Assignments.

Rearrange them to spell an explanation since you're so clever.

I'm never going to be on irc 24/7, and never will be.
oddly, and some people seem to struggle with this point, so i'm going to emphasise it for you.

I HAVE A LIFE OUTSIDE PLANETARION. I AM NOT A BOT

And for your information, i was online for the 5 or so hours afterward. (After which i had to actually, gasp, go and do some work, im terribly sorry). And for as much of that day as my work schedule will allow. My email is of course there, although i have had no emails about this to date.

Apart from all of this of course, is the minor fact that all multihunters can see the reports, and so it isnt necessary for just me to be available.

Any closures within anything remotely like the top100 have to be verified by more than one other multihunter, and in this case i was particularly careful to seek mrbrick's approval as well, so whilst you might like to think i can close planets for cheating on a whim, there is actually quite a lot of process involved, and the above process happened to take over a day. Choosing the time of closing, i think not. They were closed as soon as i had approval to do so, which i have no power over being able to choose.

Of course, your point also assumes you even know the exact time these people were closed at, which i doubt very much.

I'm not even going to answer the rest of your points, because your either trolling or extremely nieve.

If this reply seems somewhat aggressive, then please accept my apologies. I have been working extremely hard this past few weeks, I have some major real life issues to deal with which i will not go into, and i was extremely careful to make sure that both the planet closures were done properly, and that i was available as much as possible afterwards to discuss it , and i happen to take offence at some of your implications, thank you very much.

Now, i have more work to do, so feel free to keep up with the crazy conspiracy theories while i'm gone.

[Hector]

Originally Posted by Leshy

No offense, ....

None taken.

Originally Posted by Leshy

...but I may have more of an idea how the multihunting team works than you do.

And what JC says, is indeed correct. Closures, especially those of the bigger planets are discussed with several multihunters, they are not 'just closed on a whim' by whomever happens to get a report in.

But why is this the case? Have I not payed the same as you to play? Don't I deserve to have the same insight into how the rules I have signed up to and abide by are enforced? Or is that knowledge to be restricted to PATeam and friends?

Originally Posted by Leshy

The word you are looking for is discretion.

No, it's secrecy.

Originally Posted by Leshy

It's none of your business or anyone else's why a certain planet was closed

Why? We've payed money to play this game. We deserve an equal shot of winning it.

Originally Posted by Leshy

Closures, especially those of the bigger planets are discussed with several multihunters

Let's examine this statement.

The first troubling point is that bigger planets are apparently treated differently than smaller ones. Why is this the case?

The second troubling point is that "several" multihunters could examine the case. What's several? 2? 3?

In short, from your comments Leshy it seems that PA is a game of 2 castes. The n00b and the l33t. And as the l33t dwindle and go, fewer and fewer n00bs will waste their time and effort on a (possibly) corrupt game.

[Shaithess]

Personally, I think that surely if the accused allow the information and evidence to be released, this could help?

Ofc, there's the unfair pressure that PATeam (who I realise put a helluva lot of effort in ) have to cope with from it, but if the community could learn to be less childish on this matter I think it would help to stop these problems.

If the community saw true evidence they may be able to make a better decision. And if the accused hide the information, we would have to trust PATeam's judgement: After all, what have they got to hide?

Unfortunately, there's quite a few problems with this, and this community is so full of little bitches that PATeam are kinda between a rock and a hard place with this, but I'm sure there's a way that could eventually be sorted :/

[Xeno]

Originally Posted by Leshy

The word you are looking for is discretion. It's none of your business or anyone else's why a certain planet was closed, but that of PA Team and the owner of the planet in question. This applies to all planets that are closed, not to some sort of elitist club of top-ranking planets, as you seem to think is the case.

What exactly is the secret?

This is where I think you're wrong. Cheating is bound to effect the innocent third party commonly known as the players. It's not like you say, that cheating only concerns the cheater and the PA team.

The modern idea of communicating judicial judgements is based on the thought that this has a preventive effect on the general public. When the judge sentences a criminal to serve time in jail, the public learns that they must avoid committing the same crime, given that they want to avoid the punishment.

God knows why the PA team differs with any modern society on this judicial principal. What I would like to see, is a change in accordance with what the players (and anyone else, for that matter) is used to from the real world: An announcement explaining why planet XX:XX:XX has been closed and deleted - much like a judge announces his rulings in a court of law.

Such announcements would of course have to be made only after the final decision has been made to remove the suspected cheater from the game.


Xeno

[JC]

Originally Posted by Hector

Why? We've payed money to play this game. We deserve an equal shot of winning it.

I dont understand how not knowing how the multi-hunting system works effects your chances of winning .

People are 'employed' to catch cheats. When they find them, they close the planet and it gets deleted. This is the same whether you are Jim Smith from Sunderland playing for a laugh during your cigarette break at work or Syn_Sid.

As always lets look at it in a business sense, as that is what Jolt are after all....

I am a member of Barclays Bank, i put my trust in them to keep my money nice and safe. Not if my local bank manager gets sacked i dont get told why. In fact i will be lucky if i am told at all, things will just move on smoothly, while all the sacking and hiring of new people goes on in the background and is none of my business because it doesnt effect me in anyway. Why should i know about the guy who got sacked, what do i care?

I'm sure someone will pick holes in that analogy as always.

So answer me this, why do you need to know the reasons behind a planets closure? What possible use is that knowledge to you? Is it so that you can come on here flaming Jim Smith for farming multiple planets? Maybe you want to blacklist Mr Smith because he has been a naughty boy? Does he not deserve a 2nd chance to behave this time rather than having his name spread all over the forums and always known as a cheat from then on in?

PAteam and Jolt try to work professionally* so surely you can understand that some things have to be kept private for that to be possible.



*no seriously they do

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Hector

But why is this the case?

Because I have personally worked with the multihunters and you haven't. You'll never have the same amount of information about a crime as a police officer, but that doesn't suddenly mean you're entitled to that information.

Have I not payed the same as you to play? Don't I deserve to have the same insight into how the rules I have signed up to and abide by are enforced?

The procedure for planet closings are in the EULA if I'm not mistaken, and I've posted them above.

Why? We've payed money to play this game. We deserve an equal shot of winning it.

As JC asked, how does you knowing the details of a planet being closed in any way affect your gameplay, or chances to win?

The first troubling point is that bigger planets are apparently treated differently than smaller ones. Why is this the case?

Because larger planets are going to cause more of a public reaction. A minor planet caught cheating and being closed will usually be dealt with in the outlined way (privately through e-mail), whereas a case of a top planet being closed will generally provoke a big response on the forums. Which means that all the multihunters will need to know the details and progress of the case and be informed.

If you're somehow trying to claim that this is an unfair procedure, then tough. The trial against O.J. Simpson also cost more manpower and effort than the same trial would've cost against John Doe, due to public scrutiny.

The second troubling point is that "several" multihunters could examine the case. What's several? 2? 3?

That can vary depending on the case itself. Which again is fairly unimportant, as the one handling the report and closing the planet will also likely be the one handling all communications with said player. Communication between multihunters is an internal affair.

And as for your comment on the multihunters somehow being corrupt, I don't really see the difference between four multihunters applying the rules to a planet in one case, and two multihunters applying the exact same rules to a planet in another case.

[Hector]

Originally Posted by Xeno

Such announcements would of course have to be made only after the final decision has been made to remove the suspected cheater from the game.

I agree completely. At no point should blame or scorn be cast on a planet which may prove to be innocent.

Originally Posted by JC

I am a member of Barclays Bank, i put my trust in them to keep my money nice and safe. Not if my local bank manager gets sacked i dont get told why. In fact i will be lucky if i am told at all, things will just move on smoothly, while all the sacking and hiring of new people goes on in the background and is none of my business because it doesnt effect me in anyway. Why should i know about the guy who got sacked, what do i care?

Tell that to Nick Leeson and the customers of Barings Bank.

Originally Posted by JC

PAteam and Jolt try to work professionally......

I believe they work hard. But I do not think they work professionally. Which is unfortunate because I believe the PATeam have the ability and creativity to make this a great game if only they could.

Originally Posted by JC

Maybe you want to blacklist Mr Smith because he has been a naughty boy? Does he not deserve a 2nd chance to behave this time rather than having his name spread all over the forums and always known as a cheat from then on in?

Originally Posted by Hector

Would it be so hard to have a panel of 5 (Senior) Multihunters that a single person reports to. They then interview the suspect and render a decision on the future of that persons planet.

Be it a hefty (and I *do* mean *LARGE*) fine & publishing of details for a first (or less serious) offence to expulsion from the game for latter (or more serious) offences.

I believe this shows that I do agree with second chances. In fact I disagree that planet closure should be the only available option.

I dont understand how not knowing how the multi-hunting system works effects your chances of winning...

It doesn't, but it affects my perception of the game as a level playing field. I do not believe, nor have I been given a reason to, that PaX is fair. My point is that am I and every other player just meant to take someones word for it?

Because I don't and, given the level of dissatisfaction genrally, I don't think many others do either. There are reasons this game is dying and, in my opinion, this is one of them. Surely that's not good business sense?

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Hector

In fact I disagree that planet closure should be the only available option.

It's not. On several occasions planets have had roids and/or ships removed as punishment, rather than all-out account closure.

It doesn't, but it affects my perception of the game as a level playing field. I do not believe, nor have I been given a reason to, that PaX is fair.

Knowing that 6 planets out of the top galaxy are closed doesn't indicate that PA Team is trying to weed out cheaters, thus ensuring a level playing field, but knowing that 6 planets out of the top galaxy are closed for account sharing* is?

The simple truth is that it's none of your business why someone else's planet was closed. The only thing possibly affecting you is the closure itself, which you can see for yourself. Whether the planet was closed for farming, account sharing, bot use, or whatever reason you can come up with has no effect on your gameplay whatsoever, and thus is none of your business. If you're so desperate to know what a planet was closed for, why don't you simply contact the planet's owner and ask him/her?

* replace with whatever the reason of their closure is

[mikay]

Originally Posted by Hector

It doesn't, but it affects my perception of the game as a level playing field. I do not believe, nor have I been given a reason to, that PaX is fair. My point is that am I and every other player just meant to take someones word for it?

Because I don't and, given the level of dissatisfaction genrally, I don't think many others do either. There are reasons this game is dying and, in my opinion, this is one of them. Surely that's not good business sense?

You buy a service from a company - if you don't trust the way that company operates don't buy it.

You buy a service - that is a game provided as is. You don't buy anything more. You have a right to expect the end product but you have no right to question how that service is provided. You have no choice on server manufacturer, OS, configuration etc. You have no input into how many programmers or support staff there are because you just buy the service. Well closing multies is a mechanism in providing that product it's not the product.

Afaik they state in the terms & conditions that cheating is illegal etc - they don;t state anywhere how they investigate that so you have no complaint that it's done right or wrong.

This thread is purely about people wanting to have a bitch at "the cheats" and without adequate info they can't thoroughly stick the boot in. If these people are eventually closed that moves you and others a step up the ladder

[Hector]

Originally Posted by Leshy

You'll never have the same amount of information about a crime as a police officer, ...

Presuming there is enough evidence to proceed with a trial then yes I will. Court proceedings are public in all but the most draconian of criminal justice systems.

Originally Posted by Leshy

Because larger planets are going to cause more of a public reaction. A minor planet .......

And once more we have this bias. Only the larger planets deserve our attention etc.

Surely we're all just players. With the same rights and priviledges. Or rather we *should* be.

Originally Posted by Leshy

If you're somehow trying to claim that this is an unfair procedure, then tough.

Great attitude Leshy. You have a problem? Tough. Sums up the entire game. Bet if I was a Top100 player instead of a Top1000 one I'd get a bit more satisfaction.

Originally Posted by Leshy

And as for your comment on the multihunters somehow being corrupt

No need to troll Leshy, I never made such a claim.

Originally Posted by Leshy

As JC asked, how does you knowing the details of a planet being closed in any way affect your gameplay, or chances to win?

As I stated in an earlier reply:

Originally Posted by Hector

It doesn't, but it affects my perception of the game as a level playing field. I do not believe, nor have I been given a reason to, that PaX is fair. My point is that am I and every other player just meant to take someones word for it?

Originally Posted by Leshy

If you're so desperate to know what a planet was closed for, why don't you simply contact the planet's owner and ask him/her?

Ahmmmm, Leshy. They don't publicly state which planets have been closed. The only reason we know about the Top Galaxy is because of the scale of closure.

That was sort of my point....

Originally Posted by Mikay

You buy a service from a company - if you don't trust the way that company operates don't buy it.

Probably the best point made in this thread. And next round, like some many others, I won't buy it. When was the last time PA actually grew as a game between rounds?

'Nuff said.

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Hector

Presuming there is enough evidence to proceed with a trial then yes I will.

Even in a public court, you won't see how officers gather evidence, how they interrogated suspects, how they did their job. Nor will you see how the jury reaches their verdict. Again, you're only seeing the results, when you seem to want the proceedings.

And once more we have this bias. Only the larger planets deserve our attention etc.

That's not what I said. All planets deserve and get attention, larger planets simply get more. Why? Because of public scrutiny. The players themselves force more attention to be paid to larger planets because of the public outcry.

Great attitude Leshy. You have a problem? Tough.

I didn't say that your problem was tough, I simply said that if you feel the procedure is unfair despite it being equal for everyone (the only thing being different is that top planets are checked by more multihunters), then that's tough.

Sums up the entire game. Bet if I was a Top100 player instead of a Top1000 one I'd get a bit more satisfaction.

No, you might get more satisfaction if you actually brought any arguments as to why details should be made public, other than "The current system is not fair", and then describing the way things should work in pretty much exactly the way things currently do work.

No need to troll Leshy, I never made such a claim.

Originally Posted by Hector

And as the l33t dwindle and go, fewer and fewer n00bs will waste their time and effort on a (possibly) corrupt game.

As we are discussing the multihunters and their actions here, and you are complaining about the multihunting procedures somehow not being fair, I'm assuming your accusations about corruptness have bearing on them.

Ahmmmm, Leshy. They don't publicly state which planets have been closed.

If you don't even personally notice when a planet has been closed in the first place, then what use do you have for knowing why it was closed?! If you fail to even take notice of a planet, then it is hardly affecting your gameplay

[dabult]

Sidenote: Whyyyyyy why why can you scan a closed planet?

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by dabult

Sidenote: Whyyyyyy why why can you scan a closed planet?

Agreed, the old system of disallowing it from being scanned needs to be reintroduced.

[Hector]

Ok, I think perhaps this thread has gotten a little away from itself. Allow me restate my main argument a little more succintly.

There is no transparency in any aspect of how PA is run. From the multihunters (whom, tbh, I have no real doubt do the job to the best of their ability) to the fact that the manual is, well, crap.

Essentialy the rules of the game are kept secret from n00bs (like me.) I don't believe any effort is made to help them and I believe that this is the sole determining factor in the death of the PA game, if not community. And this does bother me. I've played since R4 and because I don't have the time to really commit to playing other than for fun I'm ignored.

Or at least I feel so. Which is essentially the same thing. To be honest Leshy I think we are arguing at cross purposes. You seem to think I care about the cheaters. I don't. Same as I don't care which planet even wins.

I simply care that it seems the creators want to hide the fact that the game is breakable. Not perfect.

I really do believe that people have lost sight of the forest for the trees.

I really do believe that things are being done the way they are for the sole reason that they have always been done that way.

And I really do believe that this is a great game that deserves so much more than the paltry 2000 members that it has.

Will anyone take a wager that it will have even less next round?

[JC]

Originally Posted by Hector

Essentialy the rules of the game are kept secret from n00bs (like me.)

The rules are made perfectly clear. They dont simply ban someone and then make up a new reason.

Originally posted in the EULA
18.
CHEATING

Multi
In Planetarion you may only access your own account, logging
into any other account, directly or indirectly, besides your
own originally created account will be regarded as a breach
of this agreement. and is punishable by removal from the
game in the form of account closure(1).

Several forms of multiïng include, but are not limited too:
· Account Sharing: Allowing anyone besides yourself to access
your account or to access any account other than your own.
· Account Swapping: Assuming ownership of an account not
created by yourself.
· Registering Multiple Accounts: Registering and activating
more than 1 account.

In order to enforce this successfully the following directives are in place:

· All proxies and anonymizers are considered as direct
evidence towards cheating.
· All interaction between accounts from the same IP address
will be regarded as direct evidence towards cheating.

You are as a user allowed to access your account by means of
proxies / anonymizers and also to defend / attack with people
from the same IP as yourself. However, if any Game Administrator
perceives these actions to be related to cheating, the above
rules will be enough to warrant a closure(1).

In Game cheating
Any action in game intended to let one account gain score at
the direct cost of another with the main intend being the score
gain for the one account. Any such action will be regarded as a
breach of this agreement, and is punishable by various
punitive measures(2).
This includes, but is not limited too:
· Farming: The situation where the attacker and defender have
agreed before landing to let the attacker steal asteroids
freely or with less risk than normal gameplay implies (donating).

Misc. Cheating
Cheating in this category is punishable by account closure(1).
This section only contains specific examples and only those are
subject to this punitive measure.
· Bot usage: Configuring third party software(3) to have any
automated interaction with a Planetarion in-game account
(including your own).
· False signup information: Any account containing false
signup information is perceived to have changed ownership
or created with fake information as a multi account.

Procedure
Once an account has been found guilty of cheating the account
will be closed(1). The owner of the account will be sent an
automated message briefly stating the reason for the closure
and will be given the opportunity to reply to this message to
appeal the decision. Upon completion of this appeal the account
will be subjugated to the proper measures, which can mean
re-opening, deletion or other various punitive measures(2).

(1) Account closure means it will not be possible to log
into the account, fleets and covert operations cannot
be directed at a closed account. Upon closing all
outgoing fleets will be automatically recalled,
closed accounts keep ticking (gaining resources,
auto adjusting stealth/alert levels, etc) with the
rest of the universe.
(2) Various punitive measures imply that the punishment
is completely at the discretion of the
Game Administrators, it can vary from small
score/ship/asteroid losses to full account closures
depending on the situation.
(3) Software includes any digital and or electronic
information, such as: scripts, programs, websites,
browsers, etc.

Parental control protections (such as computer hardware, software, or
filtering services) are commercially available that may assist you in
limiting access to material that is harmful to minors. If you are
interested in learning about these protections, information is
available at http://www.worldvillage.com/wv/school/html/control.htm or
other similar sites providing information on such protections.

Enjoy the game, and may the best Planetarian win!

The Planetarion Team

[Hector]

*sigh*

Why does no-one see. With every passing round the game becomes less and less accessable to new players. People don't want to read 20 pages of EULA, they want to play a game that is seen to be fair. To be honest it doesn't even have to be fair.

People just want to play a game that's easy to get into and fun to play. That doesn't necessarily consume their whole lives but could if they wanted it to. And planetarion is no longer these things.

When I say 2000 players how many of those do people think are active? 1000 paid, maybe. Look at the situation at the mid-end of this round where people who payed just got dropped into the high clusters and were summarily raped by the established planets. Can anyone tell me that's not stupid?

Anyway, I give up. This argument has thoroughly disillusioned me and persuaded me to no longer play a game I thoroughly enjoy. And may the dwindling 1000 enjoy the time they have left.

[Leshy]

Fair enough, I reckon the debate has been sidetracked a bit.

Being outside of PA Team, I can once again understand why from a community point of view there is considered to be a lack in transparency, and I agree that the current flow of information, in old-fashioned PA style is close to non-existant. Especially with announcements disappearing to the Portal, information has taken a turn for the worse. Either the Portal needs to be much more accessible or the Announcements forum should return.

I do disagree with the multihunter efforts though. Despite their work not being open and visible, I feel discretion is much more preferable than publically shaming people, although whether they deserve it is another question

Essentialy the rules of the game are kept secret from n00bs (like me.)

The EULA is there for everyone to see, and as accessible to everyone. Experienced players don't have access to any more information than newbies do.

I don't believe any effort is made to help them and I believe that this is the sole determining factor in the death of the PA game

Ironically, the "elite" players feel the death of Planetarion is due to the Creators trying to cater for the n00bs constantly.

I simply care that it seems the creators want to hide the fact that the game is breakable. Not perfect.

I reckon PA Team is the first to acknowledge that the current game isn't what it should be, and they are making efforts to deliver a better product with Round 11.

And I really do believe that this is a great game that deserves so much more than the paltry 2000 members that it has.

We definitely agree there

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Leshy

I heard they were caught in some dark ritual involving the murder of innocent babies.

(Ironically, the EULA doesn't state anything about this )

Any of them confirmed as ex-Fury members as of yet?