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3 Mar 2014, 08:37
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Havoc
I was under the assumption that we had come to the conclusion that having alliances in havoc are bad for the game. as once again we have a heavy domination of Factory planets effectively making the game a pain to play for anyone who didn't make the cut.
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Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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8 Mar 2014, 15:37
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 84
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Re: Havoc
I agree with Blue_Esper.
Factory have affectively ruined Havoc (as I've been told they do every round).
Pretty pathetic frankly .........60 man tag against a solo universe. The HC's should be ashamed!
Why not simply delete Alliances for Havoc and have gal wars.
If not then CAP allies at say 15-20 max and don't allow ingame NAPS so that Factory don't simply split into 3 tags and NAP each other.
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8 Mar 2014, 17:23
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 33
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by jermain
I agree with Blue_Esper.
Factory have affectively ruined Havoc (as I've been told they do every round).
Pretty pathetic frankly .........60 man tag against a solo universe. The HC's should be ashamed!
Why not simply delete Alliances for Havoc and have gal wars.
If not then CAP allies at say 15-20 max and don't allow ingame NAPS so that Factory don't simply split into 3 tags and NAP each other.
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Gal wars?
Wouldn't that have the same problem?
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8 Mar 2014, 19:06
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 50
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Re: Havoc
I had suggested this a long time ago and they did reduce the ally size which was good. Not sure why they went back to full tag. I would go a step further and instead of boosting people 1 week into havoc resetting everyone. A week of havoc is more than enough for a good amount of fun, why not split it into 2 separate weeks?
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8 Mar 2014, 19:10
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#5
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Havoc
Just remove havoc and have 2 weeks downtime instead of 3. All problems with havoc solved
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8 Mar 2014, 19:14
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 50
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Re: Havoc
Nah havoc is fun, and some people come to play only havoc, I wouldn't get rid of it in its entirety. If you don't like playing then don't play, that's a simple solution for those who cba.
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9 Mar 2014, 20:08
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 318
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Re: Havoc
I agree with Blue_Esper, and am glad someone else feels this way. It took about 2 days, if not less, for Factory to solidify itself, after which, there is basically no landing em. Even allowing for nasty losses, theres basically no landing them without essentially ship/resource donating to them. Now, 9 days in, and more then halfway through, and we've been seeing nasty crashes for roids simply because they have no targets left. Im pretty sure its getting boring for them too.
I think alliances should be disbanded and disallowed for havoc. There should also be a shuffle, bringing all c200 planets into active universe, and max in gal set to 5. Yes, you will still have gals who can be hard to hit, but it will be few and far between, and will more truly reflect the definition of "havoc" imo
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Saver of Sad
Supreme Commander of The Spider Colony
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9 Mar 2014, 22:27
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#8
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: Havoc
I honestly don't want to change havoc too much.
some of the havocs we've done have included ctf (galaxy only), a full reset, just galaxy only, reducing the alliance limit to 30 for any new alliances formed in havoc, etc.
I think that if the above reported that factory seem to be struggling, they may well break up midway through the round.
when we tried breaking the alliance limit down to 30, I believe we got a factory 1 and a factory 2.
There is only so much we can do to combat and limit the behaviour of users and to stop "unaccepted behaviour".
It seems like the only way to "fix" this is to remove alliances completely (though informal BGs will still form, just outside of tools and untracked) or lock alliances at the end of the round so no one can join a new alliance (which seems completely unacceptable).
I am not sure what an acceptable solution would be.
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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10 Mar 2014, 00:01
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Havoc
Personal oppinion is: No new alliance at havoc, stay where you are or cooperate off the grid. Atleast this way, those playing havoc can have fun amongst themselves, instead of the regular farm inactives race "ftw".
No achievement at winning havoc, it's supposed to be fun and "havoc".
Factory is just making it a roid race. There is no havoc element in havoc, besides the resources appoco gives all, so that they can farm easier.
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10 Mar 2014, 00:25
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 318
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoDD
Personal oppinion is: No new alliance at havoc, stay where you are or cooperate off the grid. Atleast this way, those playing havoc can have fun amongst themselves, instead of the regular farm inactives race "ftw".
No achievement at winning havoc, it's supposed to be fun and "havoc".
Factory is just making it a roid race. There is no havoc element in havoc, besides the resources appoco gives all, so that they can farm easier.
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Exactly. I always imagined "Havoc" as "Everythings gone tits up, every man for himself (or woman for herself)" Instead of basically just being a speed round.
I actually think, to make it absolutely havoc like, we should:
1) Disband alliances, and prevent them from forming.
2) Shuffle all planets, including c200 into 1 universe. All planets are shuffled once daily, every day.
3) All ships get sold automatically, for full value, and you are left with a pile of resources
4) Your race is randomly re-assigned.
5) All constructions are reset to random numbers, minimum 30 each.
6) Normal roid/res dumps.
This basically takes all planning and coordination out, and makes it truly havoc. Maybe it could be tried next round.
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*KoN* ~~ *NoS* ~~ *Fang* ~~ *Angels* ~~ *Urwins* ~~ *TheFallen* ~~ *Spore* ~~ *Ult Def Planet* ~~
Saver of Sad
Supreme Commander of The Spider Colony
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10 Mar 2014, 01:01
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: Havoc
lets just start with no alliances :P Winter round was a lot of fun
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Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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10 Mar 2014, 10:43
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#12
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: Havoc
The problem with havoc is, "factory want to win" whilst no-one else cares so much.
A fair few players in factory dont even want to be there, they say 'we have to join or we just get farmed', so you end up with one big alliance that can't play properly anyway.
I have run an anti-factory alliance three rounds now. The first I caught them napping and they 'lost'.
The second they won by adding loads out of tag and the third they won because of spies joining and leaving last tick.
When it was 30 members per alliance they are beatable but then just use multiple tags. And sigh at people napping them, really!
This makes it just to much like hard work so I didnt bother this round, the main round takes too much effort.
Basically instead of havoc being a fun end of round thing, its just all the bad things in pa rolled into one.
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10 Mar 2014, 11:24
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
The problem with havoc is, "factory want to win" whilst no-one else cares so much.
A fair few players in factory dont even want to be there, they say 'we have to join or we just get farmed', so you end up with one big alliance that can't play properly anyway.
I have run an anti-factory alliance three rounds now. The first I caught them napping and they 'lost'.
The second they won by adding loads out of tag and the third they won because of spies joining and leaving last tick.
When it was 30 members per alliance they are beatable but then just use multiple tags. And sigh at people napping them, really!
This makes it just to much like hard work so I didnt bother this round, the main round takes too much effort.
Basically instead of havoc being a fun end of round thing, its just all the bad things in pa rolled into one.
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The problem isn't that Factory want to win... That you make something to oppose them with, is more of a problem than just being it. You give it a reason to continue!
Best solution: Not possible to join any alliance after round ended, besides galaxy alliance like winter round etc...
Can probably look into the other suggestions also, like shuffles etc.
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10 Mar 2014, 14:26
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
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Re: Havoc
Why not throw some roleplay into the mix? At the end of the round peace is declared and boom the introduction of AI ships, that automatically target the highest planets and the only way to stop these AI planets is to either reduce their roids to less than a 1000 or to wipe out their fleet. So this way people can all race to defeat the weird alien invaders... the amount of aliens could be determined by the 200 series of galaxies... every planet in there automatically becomes AI controlled.
Its a random suggestion, but from what I understand not many people like playing Havoc and Factory like to win against no real opposition. But providing a unified front to fight against could provide some amusment... to make it even more crazy make the weird aliens have the stats of next rounds ships to create a true sense of Havoc in which people are guessing what to use (it might encourage more people to take an active interest in the stats discussions..
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10 Mar 2014, 14:36
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Havoc
lol, unreal suggestion... not possible
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10 Mar 2014, 20:28
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
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Re: Havoc
Using next rounds stats I will agree as an unreal request however comma why would so planets be an unreal suggestion? Even the simplest of games has AI components, granted I have no programing knowledge, but even I am taking a short uni course in designing android games... And even I am learning how to create basic AI components.
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10 Mar 2014, 22:06
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Havoc
Even advanced AI is extremly flawed. They can't think, so they will always be on the loosing side no matter how much they don't want to suicide.
I've played planetarion clones vs hundres of extremly good AI. They just dont stand the slightest chanse.. No matter how many ticks advantage you give them.
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10 Mar 2014, 22:35
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#18
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Havoc
Thats one of the reasons why I like playing Multiplayer games as AI can't mimic it
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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12 Mar 2014, 10:24
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
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Re: Havoc
Why is it the factory chaps like playing havoc against half an active universe... I can't seem to get my head around it...?
Do you win credits from havoc or something that I am unaware of...
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12 Mar 2014, 10:27
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 707
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Re: Havoc
thats basicly the whole point of this thread if you read up.
no there is no rewards for havoc.
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12 Mar 2014, 11:30
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
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Re: Havoc
Well if they like playing during times when hardly anyone is playing why not then turn it into a two sided affair...
Split the universe in half, drop everyone out of alliance then assign people to alliance a or alliance b. Sort of a west vs east or north vs south however you want to call it. So everyone from 1:2:1-5:5:5 vs 5:6:5 vs 10:?:? And to avoid forts, havoc causes another universe shuffle.
That's crazy enough and sort of evens things up and makes it really difficult for factory to all be in the same side.
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12 Mar 2014, 19:24
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 245
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
when we tried breaking the alliance limit down to 30, I believe we got a factory 1 and a factory 2.
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Even having two alliances of 30 members that are working together would be much better then the current deal.
When they're in two alliances then they loose the eta bonus.
Meaning: FICO waves will only need to deal with only 30 possible defenders instead of 60.
Yes, the FICO wave can be detected by JPG scanning but that requires someone to do JPG scans every tick which seems unrealistic..
Maybe Factory would be hittable if split in two.. Maybe not. Splitting them however (by setting a 30 tag limit) can only improve the current situation and will not make the situation worse.
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12 Mar 2014, 19:31
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#23
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram
Even having two alliances of 30 members that are working together would be much better then the current deal.
When they're in two alliances then they loose the eta bonus.
Meaning: FICO waves will only need to deal with only 30 possible defenders instead of 60.
Yes, the FICO wave can be detected by JPG scanning but that requires someone to do JPG scans every tick which seems unrealistic..
Maybe Factory would be hittable if split in two.. Maybe not. Splitting them however (by setting a 30 tag limit) can only improve the current situation and will not make the situation worse.
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Made an very good point
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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12 Mar 2014, 19:41
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#24
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Havoc
I have never understood the point of havoc. It's 2 weeks during which the vast majority of players doesn't play, and thus 2 weeks during which the game runs without a player base and therefore without revenue.
And this happens 5 times a year.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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12 Mar 2014, 20:23
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#25
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I have never understood the point of havoc. It's 2 weeks during which the vast majority of players doesn't play, and thus 2 weeks during which the game runs without a player base and therefore without revenue.
And this happens 5 times a year.
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Completely agree. If you removed havoc you could fit in another round and pa could make another £1k or something (200 credits).
Sometimes you find that having 3 weeks gap for a new player is too long and they find another game
Last edited by Kaiba; 13 Mar 2014 at 23:13.
Reason: Wrong word.. Said another havoc meant another round
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12 Mar 2014, 20:54
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#26
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Havoc
Might even be possible to fit another round in the annual calendar if havoc was binned... and still have a week off at xmas.
Would need to be on the ball with new stats etc.
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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12 Mar 2014, 22:15
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#27
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Internal Error
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 696
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Re: Havoc
I agree with mzy, kaiba and paisley. However I can imagine people like havoc because of the break it offers between rounds.
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Nitros
[]LCH[] ..lets change history
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12 Mar 2014, 23:00
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
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Re: Havoc
2 weeks of havoc plus a week of no game is too long. perhaps run signups in the last week or havoc or reduce it to 1 week of havoc
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
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13 Mar 2014, 19:13
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Completely agree. If you removed havoc you could fit in another havoc and pa could make another £1k or something (200 credits).
Sometimes you find that having 3 weeks gap for a new player is too long and they find another game
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I agree that a 3 week gap is too long. People do lose interest, and I sometimes have a job getting folk (including myself) interested in the next round.
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13 Mar 2014, 23:16
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#30
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Havoc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
I agree that a 3 week gap is too long. People do lose interest, and I sometimes have a job getting folk (including myself) interested in the next round.
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And those that do regularly express an interest get blackballed by Canadians, it's lose lose over at Vikings
But yes if pa team were serious about saving pa then a simple changes to increase revenue by 15% would be a good start. That money could be spent on graphics!!!
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17 Mar 2014, 17:13
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#31
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Havoc
When appoco announced that there would be a 30 limit on the havoc tags we set up the alliance before the ticks ended which circumvented the tag limit.
Next round he fixed it so that alliances (existing small ones) could not recruit past 30 and any new havoc alliances were limited to 30.
So we made Factory 1 and 2 and napped.
The players who play in factory want to play, they enjoy it very much (with some exceptions who spit the dummy and emo).
Our brutalisation of the rest of the Universe is not personal, we simply wish to dominate completely and destroy the opposition.
Factory have not won every Havoc, not by a long chalk there have been a few "contenders" that beat the bejeeebers out of us, and good luck to them.
If other players are so Anti factory then it is up to you to organise and shape up for the fight from Havoc tick start the same as we do, there is nothing to stop you doing it, and it is how factory started.
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