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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 00:29   #1
Torz
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Thumbs down The New 'creators'

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA


I just can't help but laugh :/



Then again, they are about as competent as the other creators :xmas:
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 00:36   #2
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I don't know either very well, but past experience shows Prince isn't very popular around the community...
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 00:39   #3
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We should start to elect creators for each round...
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 00:44   #4
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Or maybe take real professionals from outside the community, like normal businesses do.

Keeping things "in the family" is all well and good, but Planetarion has shown, repeatedly, the failings of it as well.

I really don't care, so long as they focus on making a PLAYABLE game, listen to the players concerns, and keep things in perspective.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 01:29   #5
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I have to say I'm also very dissapointed...

planetarion needed someone new... spinner has been at the helm for far FAR too long
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 01:35   #6
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hmm

hmm sorry, but spinner created this game
maybe just maybe he has the knowlage/ability to once again make it worth playing?
im all for letting spinner loose on the one thing he actually did really well,creating a game that is very addictive slightly interesting and almost a way of life
if it wasnt for him i/u/we would not even be replying to this thread

so give the guy a chance
as for the rest of em
well who cares:smiley1:
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 01:49   #7
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Re: hmm

Quote:
Originally posted by swollen plums

so give the guy a chance
as for the rest of em
well who cares:smiley1:

I, as do many others. Who Spinner works with, and how that interraction plays out, will greatly affect the outcome of the game's evolution.

Listen to the right people, make the right descisions...listen to the wrong people, end up with a round 4 all over again.

I think you get the point.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 01:53   #8
Torz
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Re: hmm

Quote:
Originally posted by swollen plums

im all for letting spinner loose on the one thing he actually did really well,creating a game that is very addictive slightly interesting and almost a way of life


creating and developing are two different things my dear.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 01:59   #9
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heh

true enough torz meh love
but when all the cards are laid down
pa is basically spinners baby....... i say give the guy a chanc:frosty:






and yes im clearly drunk:xmas:

kappa
pa wanna be:smiley1:
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 02:07   #10
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I think the game is over-developed... bring back r2 or r3... maybe not fair for everyone who's playing, but it is certainly a good play!
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 02:12   #11
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rnd 2 and 3 certainly did r0ck
the only rounds when farming wasnt such an issue(i know i spent rounds 4 and 5 with yeh...biggest farmer ever)
though multi's were a huge prob but hey.....we can all live with free roiding multi's
without the random easy targets that cheat like god knows what,pa aint half as fun:deer:
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 02:16   #12
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round2 would be a disaster with today's core players I suspect.



lo kappa btw
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 02:25   #13
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ahh yes

but rnd 2/3 stats with free universe??????

that could r0ck for the hardcore player base
lets face it the fun of the game is not slogging yer guts out daily for 100 roids

i pray for 120k universe and the fun of thieves,the joy of multi's i really do
most of all i pray for the fun to be brought back into this game
the fun i had in rnds 1,2,3..maybe even 4 since then it has almost been like a job
but at the end of the day
spinner started the fun



and
lo torz meh love... long time no see:smiley1:
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 02:27   #14
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plus im hammered so clearly making no sense:deer:
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 07:55   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by swollen plums
plus im hammered so clearly making no sense:deer:
Damn, we're in teh same boat, hammered = teh win!
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 08:05   #16
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Maybe good old Murphy will leave Spinner alone this time around. Or could the rumours be true, Mr. Spinner and Mr. Murphy got married, now we are really up the creek.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 08:33   #17
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Re: Re: hmm

Quote:
Originally posted by Torz
creating and developing are two different things my dear.
yer, look at George Lucas... he created something wonderful, but he can't write worth a damn.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 11:34   #18
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Re: The New 'creators'

Quote:
Originally posted by Torz
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA


I just can't help but laugh :/



Then again, they are about as competent as the other creators :xmas:
come see me when you get a chance mate
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 11:48   #19
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Spinner and Fudge are the only creators.

The other people who posses this title cannot be valid creators.

Apart from maybe the creators of the downfall of Planetarion (again).
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 12:32   #20
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You need to stop shifting all the blame onto the creators like this....you may not want to accept it but the COMMUNITY is just as much to blame as the creators

1)Were the creators at fault because only 2% of us clicked a banner a day
2)Were the creators at fault because some of us strated wild rumours about spinner telling lies about the finacial situation when it went p2p causing alot of gullable people to believe spinner was ripping us off thus refusing to play
3)Were the creators at fault because some people here decide to teach spinner a lesson for going p2p and hence committing a significant amount of cc fraud
4)Were the creators at fault because we created powerblocks which stiffled the game
5)Were the creators at fault becuase all we did was moan at the game, moan at 'n00bs' and flame 'n00b's
6)Were the creators at fault because some of us took the win at all cost route thus cheating which ruined the game
7)Were the creators at fault becuase we moaned so much about banners, popup and features like SMS that would have helped them make, so they were dropped

The answer to all the above is no...we the community are.

Could probally go on alot longer but you really need to all look in the mirror before putting all the blame on the creators. Yes they made mistakes, they are only human after all but were under huge finacial pressure on one side and huge pressure from us on the other and they did there best with limited finaces and man power.

The sooner you all realise this and stop moaning the better the chance the game has of getting back to it glory days
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 12:43   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
1)Were the creators at fault because only 2% of us clicked a banner a day
2)Were the creators at fault because some of us strated wild rumours about spinner telling lies about the finacial situation when it went p2p causing alot of gullable people to believe spinner was ripping us off thus refusing to play
3)Were the creators at fault because some people here decide to teach spinner a lesson for going p2p and hence committing a significant amount of cc fraud
4)Were the creators at fault because we created powerblocks which stiffled the game
5)Were the creators at fault becuase all we did was moan at the game, moan at 'n00bs' and flame 'n00b's
6)Were the creators at fault because some of us took the win at all cost route thus cheating which ruined the game
7)Were the creators at fault becuase we moaned so much about banners, popup and features like SMS that would have helped them make, so they were dropped
Yes.

They ran a business. It failed. Its their fault.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 13:22   #22
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Originally posted by Galaxian
Yes.

They ran a business. It failed. Its their fault.
Their only fault was trying to keep the community satisfied.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 13:23   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by ÐiSCoRPoRaTioN
Their only fault was trying to keep the community satisfied.
Thats not a fault - thats a basic business objective. Without satisfied customers, they have no business.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 13:30   #24
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Originally posted by Galaxian
Thats not a fault - thats a basic business objective. Without satisfied customers, they have no business.
It was still the only thing they did wrong.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 13:32   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Galaxian
Thats not a fault - thats a basic business objective. Without satisfied customers, they have no business.
Actually your wrong in the game industry you dont aim to satisfy your customers you aim to satisfy yourself. If you do this you produce a game your like and if you like it there will be an audience for it. If you try and satisfy the customers you end up with a game that pleases no one.

And Galaxian I hope the smiles at the end of the reply to me indicates your joking because if not you are highlighting the problem PA has. That being the community has a habit of taking this 'moral high ground' and just rain down insults and such like. You need to get off that 'moral high ground' and realise EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US played some part in the downfall be it constantly moaning about the game, not clicking banner ads, commiting fraud or implementing a bad idea
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 13:56   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
Actually your wrong in the game industry you dont aim to satisfy your customers you aim to satisfy yourself. If you do this you produce a game your like and if you like it there will be an audience for it. If you try and satisfy the customers you end up with a game that pleases no one.

And Galaxian I hope the smiles at the end of the reply to me indicates your joking because if not you are highlighting the problem PA has. That being the community has a habit of taking this 'moral high ground' and just rain down insults and such like. You need to get off that 'moral high ground' and realise EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US played some part in the downfall be it constantly moaning about the game, not clicking banner ads, commiting fraud or implementing a bad idea
Sorry, I totally disagree with you. Any business that has the intention of making money needs to focus on satisfying its customers. If customers are not satisfied, they take their business elsewhere. I cannot understand why you would argue against such a basic and intrinsic rule of business.

And no, I was not joking. Point out to me where I took the moral high ground or rained down insults on you.

We, the customers, are NOT to blame for the failure of PA. Its not our fault they failed to get enough customers to make a profit. The people that ran PA are to blame for persuing a business model that failed.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 14:00   #27
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Originally posted by ÐiSCoRPoRaTioN
Their only fault was trying to keep the community satisfied.
afaik they never actually attempted this!
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 15:14   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Galaxian
Sorry, I totally disagree with you. Any business that has the intention of making money needs to focus on satisfying its customers. If customers are not satisfied, they take their business elsewhere. I cannot understand why you would argue against such a basic and intrinsic rule of business.

And no, I was not joking. Point out to me where I took the moral high ground or rained down insults on you.

We, the customers, are NOT to blame for the failure of PA. Its not our fault they failed to get enough customers to make a profit. The people that ran PA are to blame for persuing a business model that failed.
Galaxian sorry but your the one wrong on this matter. Go ask any games developer what the golden rule of develop a game is and they will all tell you "Develop the game for yourself not for the customer". The reason behind this is its impossible to please your customer base as every person has a differnt view on what should be in the game. This means you dont go "we have to have feature x as loads of people want it and feature y" becuase by trying to cater for these you dilute the whole project and make it a total mess that pleases no-one. You instead only put things into the game because it works for the game. The game is of greater importance than the cutsomers because a good product can attract customers while a poor one thats tried to please the the customers doest and in fact looses customers.

And HOW can the creators be soley to blame for what happened. Lets take r3 for example where there were over 100k playing the game. To keep it free there were banner ads to click (at least one which could be clicked every 24 hours to get PA money). Of the 100,000 players only about 2,000 clicked a banner each day (through its life only 2% of customers clicked a banner you see). Now for arguments sake lets say banners paid 0.05 per click so lets do the sums

2000*0.05 = $100 a day
100*7 = $700 a week
700*4 = $2800 a month

Now you may be thinking $2800 a month isnt bad. Now on another thread hinch stated he could run PA on a totally part time basis, with little support for $500 a month and jolt are looking at around $1,500. HOWEVER BOTH of these figures work on the principle of there being only 5000 players which PA was at this time running with 20 TIMES that number so we can assume that operating costs would probally be somewhere between these two figures * 20

500 * 20 = $10,000
1500 *20 = $30,000

So that between $10,000 and $30,000 a month and PA was making $2800 which i'm sure your admit is quite a differnce

Now lets do the sums for a couple of higher click rates

10%
10,000*0.05 = $500 a day
500*7 = $3500 a week
3500*4 = $14000 a month

So in the right region...maybe not enough to turn a profit though

25%
25,000*0.05 = $1250 a day
1250*7 = $8750 a week
8750*4 = $35000 a month

Above the region so turning a profit

100%
100,000*0.05 = $5000 a day
5000*7 = $35000 a week
35000*4 = $140000 a month

Turning quite a good profit.

Its reasons like this that put the Community as much at fault as the creators
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 15:22   #29
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Without the creators u ppl wouldnt have had a game to play over the last 2 years, so give them a break and lets hope that they can continue to bring you and I hours of fun playing PA!

And for those of u who keep complaining, do u need to play the game? Leave it for those of us who actually enjoy the game and all the other stuff that comes with it. :smiley1:
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 17:14   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
So that between $10,000 and $30,000 a month and PA was making $2800 which i'm sure your admit is quite a differnce
Good calcs but remember that we only paid once for 3 months...
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round 3: 45:17:20 nos
round 4: 64:18:10 nos
round 5: 32:6:6 nos
round 6: 11:11:7 nos
round 7: 29:23:3 nos
round 8: 22:7:1 nos plush
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round 13: Dont have roids so dont bother asking
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 17:54   #31
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Oh come on Wakey, you're going to do some sort of loyalty thing and blame it on the community? The only reason this game still exists?

If somethings wrong with the game, its automatically the people who pay for it that are at fault? Uh. No.

I'm not taking any share of this collective blame, I've put my money, time and effort not only in making my alliance work, but trying to make this game work.

As an HC I opposed stagnation tactics, and I actively advocated greater alliance participation in game development. I've done well enough my part.

I think even the creators themselves recognize that mistakes made were theirs to make, blaming it on us is ludicrous.

Blame lies with those who were given the power and the responsibility to create, develop and control the game, those who stood to profit from it. I didn't have any say into the game mechanics of the game, and so goes it with most of my collegues, and until that somehow changes, your claim to blame the community is invalid.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 18:05   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Domin
Good calcs but remember that we only paid once for 3 months...
Yes but my figures were for pre p2p using banner clicks. Figures for p2p with the 30k players of r4 would be

30,000/5,000 = 6 time multipler to adjust hinch/jolts figures

500*6 = $3000 a month using hinchs figures
1500 *6 = $9000 a month using jolts

3000*3 = $9,000 a round
9000*3 = $27,000 a round

30000*10 = $300,000 a round made

Now admittedly using the p2p model we have to take into consideration that half the accounts were in fact free as it was buy one get one free in that round so.

300,000/2 = $150,000

we then need to realise that the CC companies and Processing company would take a slice. Now I'm not sure how much they would really take so i'm going to be genious and give the 50% of the remaining.

150,000/2 = $75,000

so as you can see even with these deductions p2p would have been a great money spinner (no pun intenteded) IF the fraud hadnt kicked in. Fraud results in chargeback fees from the CC company. These consist of the inital amount ($10 in this case) + a fee per charge back (between $10 and $15 usually). If the number of frauds is over 2.5% of the total business you are then classed as high risk and are then prone to penalty fees. With Visa cards you get a charge of $5000 per month for the first 5 montsh of being over this limit and then $25,000 after that and Mastercard let you off a penalty fee for teh first month but $25,000 for months 2-5, $50,000 for months 6-7, $75,000 months 8-9 and $100,000 every month after that.

Even if we ignore the penalty fees every peice of fraud committed would wipe out at least two other customers payments. And the fraudsters didnt just stick to game accounts they also did it on the PA shop. The problem with chargebacks is it takes a while for people to report fraud becuase you dont know till youve got your monthly bill. This means these people had already been playing the game and thus costing PA bandwith fees so the money had been partial spent.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 18:17   #33
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Oh come on Wakey, you're going to do some sort of loyalty thing and blame it on the community? The only reason this game still exists?

If somethings wrong with the game, its automatically the people who pay for it that are at fault? Uh. No.

I'm not taking any share of this collective blame, I've put my money, time and effort not only in making my alliance work, but trying to make this game work.

As an HC I opposed stagnation tactics, and I actively advocated greater alliance participation in game development. I've done well enough my part.

I think even the creators themselves recognize that mistakes made were theirs to make, blaming it on us is ludicrous.

Blame lies with those who were given the power and the responsibility to create, develop and control the game, those who stood to profit from it. I didn't have any say into the game mechanics of the game, and so goes it with most of my collegues, and until that somehow changes, your claim to blame the community is invalid.
And the creators also put there time and money into the game trying to make it work on a limited budget and with limited man power but that doesnt stop you putting all the lame on them.

EVERYONE has played some part in teh downfall of PA so putting the blame soley at the feet of the creators is wrong. As I pointed out above if we as a community had just made sure we had clicked a banner every day we could very well still be playing a FREE game with 180k+
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 18:40   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
And the creators also put there time and money into the game trying to make it work on a limited budget and with limited man power but that doesnt stop you putting all the lame on them.

EVERYONE has played some part in teh downfall of PA so putting the blame soley at the feet of the creators is wrong. As I pointed out above if we as a community had just made sure we had clicked a banner every day we could very well still be playing a FREE game with 180k+
and if we had the same mother we'd be brothers....

I suppose you believe that the rapid fall in banner advertising(necessitating the use of interactive ads, and those annoying gator ones..) would have also been averted under this hypothetical situation?

This game was destined to be p2p, because of its size, complexity(far too much complexity for some) and the fact it needs to support 3-5 saleries.

No, I think I will put the blame at the creators feet because they were the ones who created the conditions we had to react to.

Btw, the creators did want to make money rae? Else they'd have other jobs. They stood to profit from this, they controlled it, it is their responsibility success or failure, not mine.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 19:16   #35
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I'm interested to know how I've played a part in the downfall of the game/community, having spent a few thousand hours over the last two years trying to save it.


Alot of factors contributed to the current situation...community and creators alike. Is it our fault for not clicking banners, complaining about poor server stability/crap gameplay, etc? Or, is it the creators fault for not doing something to remedy their waning financial situation sooner?

I think it's abit of everyone's fault. With stubborn creators and a virtually uncontrollable community, we all should have seen this situation alot sooner...and taken collective action to fix it.

Now, the community is shattered, a tiny fragment of it's once-great self. I don't care who's fault it is, it's a damn shame.

I don't intend to sit by and do nothing either, and I'd encourage each and every one of you to step up and take action.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 19:42   #36
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Whats there to blame?
The creators couldnt fund PA so they made it p2p, then ppl didnt wanna pay... its nobodies fault!
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 20:20   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cochese
I'm interested to know how I've played a part in the downfall of the game/community, having spent a few thousand hours over the last two years trying to save it.


Alot of factors contributed to the current situation...community and creators alike. Is it our fault for not clicking banners, complaining about poor server stability/crap gameplay, etc? Or, is it the creators fault for not doing something to remedy their waning financial situation sooner?

I think it's abit of everyone's fault. With stubborn creators and a virtually uncontrollable community, we all should have seen this situation alot sooner...and taken collective action to fix it.

Now, the community is shattered, a tiny fragment of it's once-great self. I don't care who's fault it is, it's a damn shame.

I don't intend to sit by and do nothing either, and I'd encourage each and every one of you to step up and take action.
Cochese thats exactly what ive been saying....at no point did I say one group was to blame.

As for how you were to personally blame Cochese I cant personally answer that as everyones different and only the indivual knows exatly what extent they are to blame. For most people it will be simply not always clicking the banners, others perhaps committed fraud, others maybe helped the rumours spread that made P2P an even harder sell, others maybe helped make the forusm less welcoming thus scaring n00bs off, others maybe cheated, others maybe helped keep powerblocks as they were (be it by not making a stand agaisnt them or by standing up for them), others maybe complained about things to make FS money or one of the many other reasons. And yes Cochese some like you have done more good than harm but then its the same with the creators which is why I'm basically saying we all deserve an equal blame
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 20:33   #38
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Nothing against you wakey, just my own frustration.

I worked my ass off to keep the community (at least my corner of it on AD) involved and did everything within my power (and some stuff oustide of it) to improve communications between players/creators. I found nothing but uphill battles and endless frustrations.

Not to say I would have been PA's saviour, but perhaps if JJ hadn't needlessly canned me, and the creator's had been more up-front with their (then failing) financial situation, I could have done more. At the time, I was in a unique position to help PA, but that ended abruptly in part due to my own frustrations, and to various beaurocracies.

Take the Senate, for example, something I was a fan of before it was even created...and something which failed miserably, thanks (from what I understand) to Prince's (our newest creator ) lack of activity. It could have saved the game, but it never got off the ground, truly.

Now, alliances are leaving the game left and right, forum activity is WAY down from any other time since I've been around here, and no one really knows what's going on. We need good descisions and solid answers, but I fear we're getting empty promises and power trips instead.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 20:55   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
Were the creators at fault because only 2% of us clicked a banner a day
I clicked my banner's worth.

But i never clicked a banner after the day Spinner flipped out in one on Nod's threads, and insulted the UK players, basically calling them tight fisted wankers as they never clicked as many banners as the rest of the gamers.

So...err...yes, for me, it was the creators fault.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 21:00   #40
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The Senate istnt really Princes fault......They started to set it up but then the announcement that PA was ending was made nad it seemed pointless to continue. Perhaps now PA isnt ending it may start up again.

As for Alliances leaving I beleive alot of that is down to PA 'ending' as everyone had made new plans and dont plan to change in the long run could actually help the game. Without the old guard perhaps a whole new political enviorment can start which might be fairer after all alot of the big alliances main tool is the fear there name. With the right changes for r10 it could even be made so that the current situation will never happen again.

And I think the forum usage is the same reason....PA ended they went off to new games. Many will undoubtly return when the game starts again although of course many wont
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 21:07   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
The Senate istnt really Princes fault......They started to set it up but then the announcement that PA was ending was made nad it seemed pointless to continue. Perhaps now PA isnt ending it may start up again.
If it does start up it won't last under creator's jurisdiction. I and anyone else who tried to get that thing working had enough frustration in cooperating with the creators.
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Unread 20 Dec 2002, 21:13   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Faberius
If it does start up it won't last under creator's jurisdiction. I and anyone else who tried to get that thing working had enough frustration in cooperating with the creators.
Hopefully though with alot of the external stuff removed from there work load things like this will be able to be dealt with better as their time wont be taken up with other things
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Unread 21 Dec 2002, 00:01   #43
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What's this Senate thingie then?
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Unread 21 Dec 2002, 00:09   #44
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Quote:
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What's this Senate thingie then?

As I recall, it was a group of alliance HC members, from alliances who were registered on the Alliance Hosting.

The idea was, they'd meet with the Creators and discuss game issues, etc, or somesuch.

Excellent in theory, but poorly executed.
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Unread 21 Dec 2002, 00:15   #45
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What's this Senate thingie then?
Yet another attempt to get player input to the creators--who were too distracted to pay any attention to it (see also, PA Crew, beta, etc). :reindeer:
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Unread 21 Dec 2002, 00:39   #46
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werent they all on bahamas or something
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Unread 21 Dec 2002, 02:52   #47
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Quote:
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Hopefully though with alot of the external stuff removed from there work load things like this will be able to be dealt with better as their time wont be taken up with other things
lol yeh right (:
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Unread 21 Dec 2002, 04:52   #48
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Just let them work....and if they haven't made a good work non of us would be here!
Congrats to all Creators and Crew (ex's included ofc)!!!!
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Unread 21 Dec 2002, 23:24   #49
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wakey, lots of nice math based on practically no actual facts :/

it's the creators fault for not creating a stable viable economic model for the game

people have made FREE pa-clone games run a decent profit with a tiny userbase compared to what we used to have, if they had the number of users that we used to of course their costs would increase but so would their income

anyways i thought that it was basically because the bottom fell out of the banner click market, making any income from them negligable that led to needs for other forms of income.

a few users commiting fraud should not be able to bankrupt a company unless their finances are in big trouble to start with
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Unread 22 Dec 2002, 00:27   #50
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Quote:
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As I recall, it was a group of alliance HC members, from alliances who were registered on the Alliance Hosting.

The idea was, they'd meet with the Creators and discuss game issues, etc, or somesuch.

Excellent in theory, but poorly executed.
Interesting idea perhaps?

But who would decide which HC's would be able to join the "Senate"?
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