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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 22:44   #1
Tiamat101
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Yet another set of stats

http://xmas.planetarion.com/manual.p...n=924297024390

Finally uploaded them and balanced emp out. Everything looks right at the moment but I might have miss-key'd a number in if you see something that looks off please tell me. I've been looking at the same set of numbers for about 4h now.
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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 23:02   #2
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Dosnt DE look a bit strong?
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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 23:04   #3
Tiamat101
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Its deceptive, The team up looks strong because its prefire vs fi and Co, but Ter Bs stop is with little damage back. Also Fi/co def Does stop it because Viper T1 is strong vs De, and Pegasus is weak vs emp and weak vs banshee that get to fire. I don't want to give away all of my secrets but Phoenix is a MONSTER of a ship with these stats.

http://xmas.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=6yb76hqr4ry9o3k

http://xmas.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=h407k2qpayaics5
Because the sever hasnt updated all the new ship positions the ter calc is really an addional -100k for the terran so it would be -130k vs -200
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Last edited by Tiamat101; 29 Jul 2015 at 23:10.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 05:30   #4
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Ofc its strong. Tia <3 Zik
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 07:33   #5
Tiamat101
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Zik actually isnt that strong, Thats prolly the weak link in the De team up as the Cutter doesn't hit hard enough to stop phoenix + viper def and Lancer's deal with ter De abeit at T2.

Zik Cr however is decent but has its obvious weakness solo.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 11:08   #6
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
Ofc its strong. Tia <3 Zik
What i was thinking too. Ter/Zik duos made me throw up a little in my mouth.

How ever it looks like ETD/TER is the way to go
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 18:17   #7
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Mass de for me. Job done.

Good luck everyone but I see a terran mess iminently.

It can't be roided by itself so it will dominate as it roids well on its own.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 18:35   #8
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Added T2 De to the Peacekeeper.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 19:31   #9
Tiamat101
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Mass de for me. Job done.

Good luck everyone but I see a terran mess iminently.

It can't be roided by itself so it will dominate as it roids well on its own.
I want to know what stats your looking at because Ter by itself isnt that strong. D/C on Wyvern is very low hitting De at 60-70%. Pegasus is good vs Xan Sure, but viper and Lancer both out init Drake. As well as ingal def vs de with wyvern,roach, Spectre.

And even on the BS side Dragon gets beat up by both thief and bomber as it fires FR t2 at 40% and 60% respectivly where as both fire back at 80%+. Not to mention Spectre,Tarantula both out init Dragon. Even Pirate hits Dragons at almost 100% eff

So if you honestly think that Ter is going to be that strong on attack by all means, they may be hard to roid but they are stopped by just about EVERY class on attack.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 19:35   #10
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Re: Yet another set of stats

I am however worried about Zik not being able to target De till hulls3. I was thinking droping Co t2 from corsair and just making it T1 FR t2 De as zik already have cutter for strong anti Co. It would also give some more strength to the Fi Def vs De as corsairs and banshee's could now effectively flack each other.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 20:28   #11
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Its quite worrying that you dont understand the critism.
Look up the R55 stats, its looking like the same wombo combo ter-zik?
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 21:07   #12
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Naming two strong anti-DE ships (Wyv/Phoenix) that are in the same race that has the strong Destroyer class isn't a very good argument, Tia. You'd just end up with a lot of Ters with Zik support.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 21:24   #13
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Naming two strong anti-DE ships (Wyv/Phoenix) that are in the same race that has the strong Destroyer class isn't a very good argument, Tia. You'd just end up with a lot of Ters with Zik support.
You need both ter/zik. Zik got one of the best anti FR dont forget. These stats are not to my likings, starting to rework them prolly wont changes this for me.
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 21:57   #14
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Not really seeing the big deal around De. Yeah, it's good, but not amazing. That said, I do see a problem with Ter also having the best anti-De ship. That should probably be some other race. Wyvern Init 8, Dragon Init 5, Tycoon Init 9, Dreadnaught Init 5 would fix that.

Ter/Etd Bs teamups have no counter, Ter and Etd perfectly cover the classes with their low init ships. I'd suggest ensuring there's a Cr that prefires both fleets. Maybe swap the types on Zik Cr? Ziks really don't want to steal Bs anyway, De is much better to get. Pirate T1 De, T2 --, Rogue T1 Fr, T2 Bs?

(Sidenote: the Zik setup in general is a bit annoying. Both attack fleets must fire at Bs, but neither wants to steal it, so that means you need 2 Zik kill ships firing at Bs already. It's too late for the large-scale overhaul it would take to rectify that, though, and to be frank, it's not really a huge deal anyway.)

Cat/Zik Cr is a good combo as always. Little worried that the above suggestions make it overly strong, but not really sure how to fix that. Buccaneer prefiring Pirate makes Fr/De too strong, and one of the Bs fleets prefiring Zik Cr makes Bs too strong. The only option I see is by making Fi the de-facto anti-De class, then Bs can be the anti-Cr class instead of the anti-De class. Co already has to deal with Spider, Cutter and Widow, and even the Ghost to an extent. I dunno.

And I just noticed Etd has a Fr fleet too, which can't roid anything solo. Etd Co/Fr looks like a strong defensive option, though, and Fr/De teams are very strong, so maybe that's OK.

Oh, and:

Running simple check for Ter De...
Ter De does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Drake beats defender Phoenix: Drake has init 7, Phoenix has init 9
- Defender Wyvern beats attacker Gryphon: Wyvern has init 5, Gryphon has init 8
Ter De roids Cat:
- Attacker Drake beats defender Viper: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Gryphon beats defender Roach: Gryphon is Ter and resists EMP
Ter De does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Banshee: Pegasus has init 5, Banshee has init 6
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Gryphon: Spectre has init 6, Gryphon has init 8
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Gryphon: Peacekeeper has init 4, Gryphon has init 8
Ter De roids Zik:
- Attacker Gryphon beats defender Pirate: Gryphon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
Ter De does not roid Etd:
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Drake: Lancer has init 5, Drake has init 7
- Attacker Gryphon beats defender Dreadnaught: Gryphon has init 8, Dreadnaught has init 9

Running simple check for Ter Bs...
Ter Bs roids Ter:
- Attacker Wyvern beats defender Gryphon: Wyvern has init 5, Gryphon has init 8
Ter Bs does not roid Cat:
- Defender Locust beats attacker Dragon: Locust has init 7, Dragon has init 8
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Tarantula: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
Ter Bs does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Revanant: Dragon has init 8, Revanant has init 9
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Dragon: Spectre has init 6, Dragon has init 8
Ter Bs roids Zik:
- Attacker Wyvern beats defender Clipper: Wyvern has init 5, Clipper has init 7
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
Ter Bs roids Etd:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Thief: Dragon has init 8, Thief has init 19

Running simple check for Cat Co...
Cat Co does not roid Ter:
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Beetle: Harpy is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Drake beats attacker Viper: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
Cat Co does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Spider: Beetle has init 1, Spider has init 2
- Defender Widow beats attacker Viper: Widow has init 1, Viper has init 3
Cat Co roids Xan:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Phantom: Beetle has init 1, Phantom has init 4
- Attacker Viper beats defender Bomber: Viper has init 3, Bomber has init 8
Cat Co roids Zik:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Corsair: Beetle has init 1, Corsair has init 20
- Attacker Viper beats defender Cutter: Viper has init 3, Cutter has init 4
Cat Co does not roid Etd:
- Defender Recluse beats attacker Viper: Recluse has init 2, Viper has init 3

Running simple check for Cat Cr...
Cat Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Gryphon beats attacker Roach: Gryphon is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Tarantula: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
Cat Cr roids Cat:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Locust: Tarantula has init 1, Locust has init 7
Cat Cr roids Xan:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 8
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Peacekeeper: Tarantula has init 1, Peacekeeper has init 4
Cat Cr roids Zik:
- Attacker Roach beats defender Buccaneer: Roach has init 2, Buccaneer has init 19
Cat Cr roids Etd:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Executive: Tarantula has init 1, Executive has init 7
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Tycoon: Tarantula has init 1, Tycoon has init 5

Running simple check for Xan Fi...
Xan Fi does not roid Ter:
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Banshee: Pegasus has init 5, Banshee has init 6
Xan Fi does not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Phantom: Beetle has init 1, Phantom has init 4
Xan Fi does not roid Xan:
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Banshee: Ghost has init 5, Banshee has init 6
Xan Fi roids Zik:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 21
- Attacker Banshee beats defender Buccaneer: Banshee has init 6, Buccaneer has init 19
Xan Fi roids Etd:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Lancer: Phantom has init 4, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Banshee beats defender Executive: Banshee has init 6, Executive has init 7

Running simple check for Xan Fr...
Xan Fr does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Bomber beats defender Phoenix: Bomber has init 8, Phoenix has init 9
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Revanant: Dragon has init 8, Revanant has init 9
Xan Fr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Bomber: Viper has init 3, Bomber has init 8
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 8
Xan Fr roids Xan:
- Attacker Ghost beats defender Banshee: Ghost has init 5, Banshee has init 6
Xan Fr does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Ghost beats defender Corsair: Ghost has init 5, Corsair has init 20
- Defender Rogue beats attacker Bomber: Rogue has init 5, Bomber has init 8
Xan Fr does not roid Etd:
- Defender Vendor beats attacker Bomber: Vendor has init 1, Bomber has init 8
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Revanant: Tycoon has init 5, Revanant has init 9

Running simple check for Zik De...
Zik De does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Phoenix: Cutter has init 4, Phoenix has init 9
- Defender Wyvern beats attacker Clipper: Wyvern has init 5, Clipper has init 7
Zik De does not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Cutter: Viper has init 3, Cutter has init 4
- Defender Roach beats attacker Buccaneer: Roach has init 2, Buccaneer has init 19
Zik De does not roid Xan:
- Defender Banshee beats attacker Buccaneer: Banshee has init 6, Buccaneer has init 19
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Buccaneer: Spectre has init 6, Buccaneer has init 19
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Clipper: Peacekeeper has init 4, Clipper has init 7
Zik De does not roid Zik:
- Defender Pirate beats attacker Buccaneer: Pirate has init 18, Buccaneer has init 19
Zik De roids Etd:
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Lancer: Cutter has init 4, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Clipper beats defender Dreadnaught: Clipper has init 7, Dreadnaught has init 9

Running simple check for Zik Cr...
Zik Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Gryphon beats attacker Pirate: Gryphon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
Zik Cr roids Cat:
- Attacker Rogue beats defender Locust: Rogue has init 5, Locust has init 7
Zik Cr does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Rogue beats defender Bomber: Rogue has init 5, Bomber has init 8
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Pirate: Peacekeeper has init 4, Pirate has init 18
Zik Cr roids Zik:
- Attacker Pirate beats defender Buccaneer: Pirate has init 18, Buccaneer has init 19
Zik Cr does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Rogue beats defender Executive: Rogue has init 5, Executive has init 7
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Pirate: Tycoon has init 5, Pirate has init 18

Running simple check for Etd Co...
Etd Co roids Ter:
- Attacker Lancer beats defender Harpy: Lancer has init 5, Harpy has init 7
- Attacker Lancer beats defender Drake: Lancer has init 5, Drake has init 7
Etd Co does not roid Cat:
- Defender Spider beats attacker Lancer: Spider has init 2, Lancer has init 5
- Defender Widow beats attacker Lancer: Widow has init 1, Lancer has init 5
Etd Co does not roid Xan:
- Defender Phantom beats attacker Lancer: Phantom has init 4, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Vendor beats defender Bomber: Vendor has init 1, Bomber has init 8
Etd Co does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Lancer beats defender Corsair: Lancer has init 5, Corsair has init 20
- Defender Cutter beats attacker Lancer: Cutter has init 4, Lancer has init 5
Etd Co roids Etd:
- Attacker Vendor beats defender Recluse: Vendor has init 1, Recluse has init 2

Running simple check for Etd Fr...
Etd Fr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Recluse: Phoenix is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Thief: Dragon has init 8, Thief has init 19
Etd Fr does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Recluse beats defender Viper: Recluse has init 2, Viper has init 3
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Executive: Tarantula has init 1, Executive has init 7
Etd Fr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Banshee beats attacker Executive: Banshee has init 6, Executive has init 7
Etd Fr does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Executive beats defender Corsair: Executive has init 7, Corsair has init 20
- Defender Rogue beats attacker Executive: Rogue has init 5, Executive has init 7
Etd Fr does not roid Etd:
- Defender Vendor beats attacker Recluse: Vendor has init 1, Recluse has init 2
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Thief: Tycoon has init 5, Thief has init 19

Running simple check for Etd Bs...
Etd Bs does not roid Ter:
- Defender Gryphon beats attacker Dreadnaught: Gryphon has init 8, Dreadnaught has init 9
Etd Bs does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Locust: Tycoon has init 5, Locust has init 7
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Tycoon: Tarantula has init 1, Tycoon has init 5
Etd Bs roids Xan:
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Revanant: Tycoon has init 5, Revanant has init 9
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Spectre: Tycoon has init 5, Spectre has init 6
Etd Bs does not roid Zik:
- Defender Clipper beats attacker Dreadnaught: Clipper has init 7, Dreadnaught has init 9
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Pirate: Tycoon has init 5, Pirate has init 18
Etd Bs roids Etd:
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Thief: Tycoon has init 5, Thief has init 19

Running simple check for Fi teamups...
Fi teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Banshee: Pegasus has init 5, Banshee has init 6
Fi teamups do not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Phantom: Beetle has init 1, Phantom has init 4
Fi teamups do not roid Xan:
- Defender Ghost beats attacker Banshee: Ghost has init 5, Banshee has init 6
Fi teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 21
- Attacker Banshee beats defender Buccaneer: Banshee has init 6, Buccaneer has init 19
Fi teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Lancer: Phantom has init 4, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Banshee beats defender Executive: Banshee has init 6, Executive has init 7

Running simple check for Co teamups...
Co teamups roid Ter:
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Beetle: Harpy is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Lancer beats defender Harpy: Lancer has init 5, Harpy has init 7
- Defender Drake beats attacker Viper: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Lancer beats defender Drake: Lancer has init 5, Drake has init 7
Co teamups do not roid Cat:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Spider: Beetle has init 1, Spider has init 2
- Defender Spider beats attacker Lancer: Spider has init 2, Lancer has init 5
- Defender Widow beats attacker Viper: Widow has init 1, Viper has init 3
- Defender Widow beats attacker Lancer: Widow has init 1, Lancer has init 5
Co teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Phantom: Beetle has init 1, Phantom has init 4
- Defender Phantom beats attacker Lancer: Phantom has init 4, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Viper beats defender Bomber: Viper has init 3, Bomber has init 8
- Attacker Vendor beats defender Bomber: Vendor has init 1, Bomber has init 8
Co teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Beetle beats defender Corsair: Beetle has init 1, Corsair has init 20
- Attacker Lancer beats defender Corsair: Lancer has init 5, Corsair has init 20
- Attacker Viper beats defender Cutter: Viper has init 3, Cutter has init 4
- Defender Cutter beats attacker Lancer: Cutter has init 4, Lancer has init 5
Co teamups roid Etd:
- Defender Recluse beats attacker Viper: Recluse has init 2, Viper has init 3
- Attacker Vendor beats defender Recluse: Vendor has init 1, Recluse has init 2

Running simple check for Fr teamups...
Fr teamups do not roid Ter:
- Attacker Bomber beats defender Phoenix: Bomber has init 8, Phoenix has init 9
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Recluse: Phoenix is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Revanant: Dragon has init 8, Revanant has init 9
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Thief: Dragon has init 8, Thief has init 19
Fr teamups do not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Bomber: Viper has init 3, Bomber has init 8
- Attacker Recluse beats defender Viper: Recluse has init 2, Viper has init 3
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 8
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Executive: Tarantula has init 1, Executive has init 7
Fr teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Ghost beats defender Banshee: Ghost has init 5, Banshee has init 6
- Defender Banshee beats attacker Executive: Banshee has init 6, Executive has init 7
Fr teamups do not roid Zik:
- Attacker Ghost beats defender Corsair: Ghost has init 5, Corsair has init 20
- Attacker Executive beats defender Corsair: Executive has init 7, Corsair has init 20
- Defender Rogue beats attacker Bomber: Rogue has init 5, Bomber has init 8
- Defender Rogue beats attacker Executive: Rogue has init 5, Executive has init 7
Fr teamups do not roid Etd:
- Defender Vendor beats attacker Bomber: Vendor has init 1, Bomber has init 8
- Defender Vendor beats attacker Recluse: Vendor has init 1, Recluse has init 2
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Revanant: Tycoon has init 5, Revanant has init 9
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Thief: Tycoon has init 5, Thief has init 19

Running simple check for De teamups...
De teamups do not roid Ter:
- Attacker Drake beats defender Phoenix: Drake has init 7, Phoenix has init 9
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Phoenix: Cutter has init 4, Phoenix has init 9
- Defender Wyvern beats attacker Gryphon: Wyvern has init 5, Gryphon has init 8
- Defender Wyvern beats attacker Clipper: Wyvern has init 5, Clipper has init 7
De teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Drake beats defender Viper: Drake is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Viper beats attacker Cutter: Viper has init 3, Cutter has init 4
- Attacker Gryphon beats defender Roach: Gryphon is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Roach beats attacker Buccaneer: Roach has init 2, Buccaneer has init 19
De teamups do not roid Xan:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Banshee: Pegasus has init 5, Banshee has init 6
- Defender Banshee beats attacker Buccaneer: Banshee has init 6, Buccaneer has init 19
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Gryphon: Spectre has init 6, Gryphon has init 8
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Buccaneer: Spectre has init 6, Buccaneer has init 19
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Gryphon: Peacekeeper has init 4, Gryphon has init 8
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Clipper: Peacekeeper has init 4, Clipper has init 7
De teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Gryphon beats defender Pirate: Gryphon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
- Defender Pirate beats attacker Buccaneer: Pirate has init 18, Buccaneer has init 19
De teamups roid Etd:
- Defender Lancer beats attacker Drake: Lancer has init 5, Drake has init 7
- Attacker Cutter beats defender Lancer: Cutter has init 4, Lancer has init 5
- Attacker Gryphon beats defender Dreadnaught: Gryphon has init 8, Dreadnaught has init 9
- Attacker Clipper beats defender Dreadnaught: Clipper has init 7, Dreadnaught has init 9

Running simple check for Cr teamups...
Cr teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Gryphon beats attacker Roach: Gryphon is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Gryphon beats attacker Pirate: Gryphon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Tarantula: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
Cr teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Locust: Tarantula has init 1, Locust has init 7
- Attacker Rogue beats defender Locust: Rogue has init 5, Locust has init 7
Cr teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Bomber: Tarantula has init 1, Bomber has init 8
- Attacker Rogue beats defender Bomber: Rogue has init 5, Bomber has init 8
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Peacekeeper: Tarantula has init 1, Peacekeeper has init 4
- Defender Peacekeeper beats attacker Pirate: Peacekeeper has init 4, Pirate has init 18
Cr teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Roach beats defender Buccaneer: Roach has init 2, Buccaneer has init 19
- Attacker Pirate beats defender Buccaneer: Pirate has init 18, Buccaneer has init 19
Cr teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Executive: Tarantula has init 1, Executive has init 7
- Attacker Rogue beats defender Executive: Rogue has init 5, Executive has init 7
- Attacker Tarantula beats defender Tycoon: Tarantula has init 1, Tycoon has init 5
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Pirate: Tycoon has init 5, Pirate has init 18

Running simple check for Bs teamups...
Bs teamups roid Ter:
- Attacker Wyvern beats defender Gryphon: Wyvern has init 5, Gryphon has init 8
- Defender Gryphon beats attacker Dreadnaught: Gryphon has init 8, Dreadnaught has init 9
Bs teamups roid Cat:
- Defender Locust beats attacker Dragon: Locust has init 7, Dragon has init 8
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Locust: Tycoon has init 5, Locust has init 7
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Tarantula: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Tycoon: Tarantula has init 1, Tycoon has init 5
Bs teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Revanant: Dragon has init 8, Revanant has init 9
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Revanant: Tycoon has init 5, Revanant has init 9
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Dragon: Spectre has init 6, Dragon has init 8
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Spectre: Tycoon has init 5, Spectre has init 6
Bs teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Wyvern beats defender Clipper: Wyvern has init 5, Clipper has init 7
- Defender Clipper beats attacker Dreadnaught: Clipper has init 7, Dreadnaught has init 9
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 18
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Pirate: Tycoon has init 5, Pirate has init 18
Bs teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Thief: Dragon has init 8, Thief has init 19
- Attacker Tycoon beats defender Thief: Tycoon has init 5, Thief has init 19

Code:
|           | Ter   | Cat   | Xan   | Zik   | Etd   | Lands |
| Ter De    |       | roids |       | roids |       |     2 |
| Ter Bs    | roids |       |       | roids |       |     2 |
| Cat Co    |       |       | roids | roids |       |     2 |
| Cat Cr    |       | roids | roids | roids |       |     3 |
| Xan Fi    |       |       |       | roids | roids |     2 |
| Xan Fr    |       |       | roids |       |       |     1 |
| Zik De    |       |       |       |       | roids |     1 |
| Zik Cr    |       | roids |       | roids |       |     2 |
| Etd Co    | roids |       |       |       | roids |     2 |
| Etd Fr    |       |       |       |       |       |     0 |
| Etd Bs    |       |       | roids |       | roids |     2 |
| Landed on | 2     | 3     | 4     | 6     | 4     |       |
Code:
|           | Ter   | Cat   | Xan   | Zik   | Etd   | Lands |
| Fi        |       |       |       | roids | roids |     2 |
| Co        | roids |       | roids | roids | roids |     4 |
| Fr        |       |       | roids |       |       |     1 |
| De        |       | roids |       | roids | roids |     3 |
| Cr        |       | roids | roids | roids | roids |     4 |
| Bs        | roids | roids | roids | roids | roids |     5 |
| Landed on | 2     | 3     | 4     | 5     | 5     |       |
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Unread 30 Jul 2015, 22:57   #15
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Re: Yet another set of stats

So close to what I wanted, The Bs team up does land everything but because of T2's Its easy enough to stop and the Solo's have their obvious counters. Fr I understand is weak, and I am looking for a way to fix that. I may switch Rogue and Pirate's T2. Thus making Zik good vs De instead of Fr(which already has issues) That would allow Executive/locust/bomber's to roid into Zik cr's. It also would mean that all Cr fires at Fr T2 which makes them harder to hit and better on offense since recluse stop Viper meaning you'd need Etd Co to stop Fr or Fi.


I am not even close to worried about De its not nearly as strong as everyone says. If you want to put your alliance together as Ter/Zik De good luck roiding past tick 300 when the blocks come out. It would work as a DLR style alliance because it can roid in mass but it has huge weaknesses to ingal def and Co def.

Bs however is another story I ran my calcs early today and it is on the "stronger" side but by far its not unbeatable. The T2 Cr tycoon is what I see is the weakness as Tycoon damage isnt that high to begin with.

http://xmas.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=x9041lm95664pzf

That calc is what I want to see. Fr and De will struggle to stop the TEAM-ups for 500-600 ticks. However once the value of being a fr/de planet starts to kick in over the split fleet bs, the calcs will start to turn red for the Bs. Thiefs are wicked strong and Etd really struggles with De def. Also considering that Both Ter and Etd will need off eta def ships to cover Fi and Co makes their alliance weak to those classes for live launch attacks.

Overall I think the only changes I am looking into are either the Zik Cr change, Lance targets swapped or Corsair T2 De, and some more tweaking of Effs.
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Unread 31 Jul 2015, 09:35   #16
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
So close to what I wanted, The Bs team up does land everything but because of T2's Its easy enough to stop and the Solo's have their obvious counters.

(...)

Bs however is another story I ran my calcs early today and it is on the "stronger" side but by far its not unbeatable. The T2 Cr tycoon is what I see is the weakness as Tycoon damage isnt that high to begin with.

http://xmas.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=x9041lm95664pzf

That calc is what I want to see. Fr and De will struggle to stop the TEAM-ups for 500-600 ticks. However once the value of being a fr/de planet starts to kick in over the split fleet bs, the calcs will start to turn red for the Bs. Thiefs are wicked strong and Etd really struggles with De def. Also considering that Both Ter and Etd will need off eta def ships to cover Fi and Co makes their alliance weak to those classes for live launch attacks.
All solo fleets have their obvious counters. Bs is not exceptional solo, only in teamups, because it has no counters.

As for the T2s, there'll be exactly 1 Cr ship to kill Bs (Pirate). No sane Xan is going to research Siege. Fr is slightly more viable, Executive kills Bs T1, and Locust T2.

As for that calc, it's basically perfect. How many perfect calcs will you be able to make if you get 60 waves of Bs incoming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Fr I understand is weak, and I am looking for a way to fix that. I may switch Rogue and Pirate's T2. Thus making Zik good vs De instead of Fr(which already has issues) That would allow Executive/locust/bomber's to roid into Zik cr's. It also would mean that all Cr fires at Fr T2 which makes them harder to hit and better on offense since recluse stop Viper meaning you'd need Etd Co to stop Fr or Fi.
Fr is not weak. Etd Fr is weak solo, but it has 3 above average teamup partners. Buffing Etd Fr so that it's viable solo would be a bad idea, in my opinion. And in any case, buffing Fr while hurting De (or vice versa) is an exercise in futility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I am not even close to worried about De its not nearly as strong as everyone says. If you want to put your alliance together as Ter/Zik De good luck roiding past tick 300 when the blocks come out. It would work as a DLR style alliance because it can roid in mass but it has huge weaknesses to ingal def and Co def.
Cutter murders Co, and because De fleets consist of 3 ships (=more of your value in your roiding fleet), EMP is not as big a concern as it is for 2-ship fleets.

As for ingal def, you're right, there are good options there (Wyvern, Roach, Spectre), but one of the main De races is also has one of the 2 viable anti-De kill ships. Why wouldn't you go De? Even if you don't land as much as other fleets, holding roids is more important than gaining them. See Zik r62.


Despite all of that criticism, these look like viable stats to me. As a bonus, there are some very small and simple tweaks that can be done to completely change the way the fleets interact, some of which I suggested in my previous post, and I'm sure there's more. This makes it possible to use them for a round, note their issues, make a couple of tweaks, then use them for another round.
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Unread 31 Jul 2015, 10:59   #17
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Re: Yet another set of stats

I was thinking of making spectre prefire tycoon but wasn't sure if that fixes the issues as your right xans with hulls 3 is gonna be scarce. Bs team might be too strong but it's weakness to cr def is apealing I am going to switch rogue to t1 de and pirate t2 fr. Since zik only have 1 de target might be better at t1. Thus not going to change Lancer or corsair. Also might buff executive ac.
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Unread 31 Jul 2015, 14:33   #18
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Not really seeing the use in tweaking zik so much to counter this mass ter scenario, zik hasn't really been the most popular race as its seen to be "hard to play" (not my opinion but just the comment I pick up most rounds). You can get away with initiating roids and massing de with some bs back up as ter and be on to a winner.
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Unread 31 Jul 2015, 15:48   #19
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Round 62:

Ter: 77
Cat: 213
Xan: 158
Zik: 187
Etd: 78
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Unread 31 Jul 2015, 16:40   #20
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Re: Yet another set of stats

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You need both ter/zik. Zik got one of the best anti FR dont forget. These stats are not to my likings, starting to rework them prolly wont changes this for me.
But Ter is already firing first at Fr with Dragon.
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Unread 31 Jul 2015, 21:38   #21
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Re: Yet another set of stats

I moved Rev init to 7 so it fires before Terran bs but tycoon still has init and eff adv. And after that I'm done.
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Unread 1 Aug 2015, 03:53   #22
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Wink Re: Yet another set of stats

Zik used to be hard to play cause you had to steal your own attack fleet and def fleets. Now they come built ready for noobs
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Unread 2 Aug 2015, 18:55   #23
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Only change I've made since uploaded into game is Widow Cost increased by 40, +20m +20e
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Unread 2 Aug 2015, 22:35   #24
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Final set of changes Made today with Appocomaster.

Adjusted Costs and E/R on Xan Pods Etd Pods
Lowered damage on Galleon 5->3
Switched targeting on Lancer

Changes should go into effect in about 2h when appoco gets around to them.
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Unread 2 Aug 2015, 22:55   #25
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Gryphon is probably better t1 bs t2 cr
Bs is clearly strong already and Terran have no anti bs.
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Unread 2 Aug 2015, 23:02   #26
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Re: Yet another set of stats

I am not going to give Ter another way to counter Ter. But I did consider changing Gry but it is the way that i want it.
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Unread 2 Aug 2015, 23:46   #27
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Re: Yet another set of stats

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I am not going to give Ter another way to counter Ter. But I did consider changing Gry but it is the way that i want it.
Fair enough- I was just looking at etd/ter bs combo. Etd can solo ter with bs as it is; but go on its late in the day now
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Unread 2 Aug 2015, 23:49   #28
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Re: Yet another set of stats

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Lowered damage on Galleon 5->3
Its now set to 2?
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 00:12   #29
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Re: Yet another set of stats

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Its now set to 2?
Appoco talked me into lowering it further apparently in previous rounds it's taken at least 3 lands for them to pay back. So I lowered it to 2, so it only steals 100 resources per land and they cost 300 to make.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 05:04   #30
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Re: Yet another set of stats

how are these stats final? widow emp'd at 211% eff? wyv emp'd at 174%? tara t2 over 100% on all but 1 ship?
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 05:48   #31
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Are you Really complaining about an emp ship having a T2 Emp of 100%?

I made widow low e/r so its not that much flack since it does init over viper.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 06:32   #32
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Re: Yet another set of stats

It was pointed out to me that Tycoon's Armor and Damage were inputted in reverse and hopefully Appocomaster will change them in game when he wakes.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 06:55   #33
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Re: Yet another set of stats

That'd be a pretty big change after the shipstats are final.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 08:00   #34
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Re: Yet another set of stats

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That'd be a pretty big change after the shipstats are final.
It isnt a change it was miss key. The orginal stats that I had posted on my google doc's I switched Armor and Damage collums. So when I keyed them into Xmas server that was a mistake i made. Cloaked ships don't have more armor than damage.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 09:16   #35
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Re: Yet another set of stats

It's a change for everyone else tho, the lower dmg on the BS means their init advantage isnt simply too powerful, but only borderline. Now you want to change that, after shipstats are already final and theres no chance for anyone to complain about it.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 09:47   #36
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Sounds more like you are just complaining to complain. You have had 2 weeks to speak up about stats and not a word from you. This changed happened hours from me sitting down with Appoco to finalize stats. This is not a last minute change but was intended from the onset. You still have 5 days before round start to make your changes and decide your strategy. I've made it pretty clear that if people have issues to mention them as I am usually very reachable and very understanding person. I've been in #beta for the past 4 days and no one has flagged me down or said anything on forums.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 10:08   #37
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Re: Yet another set of stats

We've had 2 weeks to comment on shipstats where the DC of the tycoon was 300. changing it to 400+ makes its init matter a whole lot more. If that was in the shipstats set earlier, then yes i would have joined others in complaining about BS being too strong.
It doesnt matter how reachable you are, if we arent given the correct shipstats to comment on.
I dont care if theres some tiny changes made after shipstats are already final, correcting some costs or something, but this changes the dynamic and the balance of the whole set. Too big a change to be made after shipstats are final already imo.

But besides them being final, I also dont see how you think this change is a good idea. Stopping BS is now far more difficult than any other attacking combo.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 10:09   #38
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Not a big deal. It's just effs.

Still, there really shouldn't be any more changes after this.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 10:17   #39
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
We've had 2 weeks to comment on shipstats where the DC of the tycoon was 300. changing it to 400+ makes its init matter a whole lot more.
Thats funny because I didn't get to put my stats up into a server or even posted them on the forums until 7/29/15 Which was 4 days ago. So if you had something you wanted to say you should have said it, but don't come in here trying to say that changed your entire outlook on a stats set that you barely had a chance to look over. Had the change happened pre appoco's message of "stats final" You wouldn't be talking here, instead you just want to be a rabble-rouser like you always have been.

As to your other point, Bs is not the dominant fleet that you make it out to be. Init isn't the be-all-end-all. I bet you haven't even opened up a bcalc for any of the stats on these threads because that's the kind of person that you are. Had you the forethought to actually do some research before making that kind of statement you would already know that Bs is stopped by Fr/de/cr with at most 75% of attacker value.

So please next time you want to come into the forums and post something so passive aggressive at least have the decency to back up your allegations with some fact.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 10:22   #40
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Re: Yet another set of stats

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
But besides them being final, I also dont see how you think this change is a good idea. Stopping BS is now far more difficult than any other attacking combo.

http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=jhgqiu3coajb7a9

http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=92bamsd4z82uxf3

I stand corrected Fr cant cover the Bs team up with less value than attackers. Oh well looks like there has to be one place the BS team has to be able to attack into.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 11:30   #41
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Re: Yet another set of stats

i hope everyone enjoys being hugged
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 11:37   #42
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Thats funny because I didn't get to put my stats up into a server or even posted them on the forums until 7/29/15 Which was 4 days ago. So if you had something you wanted to say you should have said it, but don't come in here trying to say that changed your entire outlook on a stats set that you barely had a chance to look over. Had the change happened pre appoco's message of "stats final" You wouldn't be talking here, instead you just want to be a rabble-rouser like you always have been.

As to your other point, Bs is not the dominant fleet that you make it out to be. Init isn't the be-all-end-all. I bet you haven't even opened up a bcalc for any of the stats on these threads because that's the kind of person that you are. Had you the forethought to actually do some research before making that kind of statement you would already know that Bs is stopped by Fr/de/cr with at most 75% of attacker value.

So please next time you want to come into the forums and post something so passive aggressive at least have the decency to back up your allegations with some fact.
Whats with the personal attacks? This isnt ally politics section.
I didn't have something to say earlier, because they looked quite decent and balanced. Only reason i'm commenting now is because I feel the change moves the set in the wrong direction, plus changing shipstats after they are final is a bad practice for a game.

I understand the typo was accidental and you like to put the shipstats in game that you had in your mind when making them, but you must admit this is a big change to make when shipstats are already final and that it's not ideal to be sure. Not sure why it's 'being a rabble-rouser' to comment on this.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 11:59   #43
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Re: Yet another set of stats

if u go FI, u can def against FI with ghosts
if u go CO, u can def against CO with widow or recluse
if u go FR, u can def against FR with tycoon
if u go DE, u can def against DE with rogues wyverns
if u go CR, u can def against CR with awesome locust
playing with BS means BS lands u too. etd and ter have no ship to stop bs at all.
when a class fires before all def ships makes it very popular.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 13:40   #44
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Re: Yet another set of stats

im quite shocked that appoco choose to go with these stats.
What was teh reasoning for this?
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 15:46   #45
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Because he doesnt care
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 15:48   #46
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=jhgqiu3coajb7a9

http://game.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=92bamsd4z82uxf3

I stand corrected Fr cant cover the Bs team up with less value than attackers. Oh well looks like there has to be one place the BS team has to be able to attack into.
Lol. Realistic.

Still, you and your fl forting buddies will be happy that your stats were chosen.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 17:44   #47
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Re: Yet another set of stats

Cr bs and fr de can fort just as well. And bf asc ult for WAY more than fl does look at the concentration of forts in this last round. There is nothing wrong with forts.

As for the reason they were chosen they fit the criteria appoco wanted and they were finished. Joseph and m0 were not finished and blue_e had too many 0 loss ships. I understand people have rl lives but if you cba to finish Stats don't start them. And BB I don't see a set from you...
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 17:48   #48
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Re: Yet another set of stats

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Cr bs and fr de can fort just as well. And bf asc ult for WAY more than fl does look at the concentration of forts in this last round. There is nothing wrong with forts.

As for the reason they were chosen they fit the criteria appoco wanted and they were finished. Joseph and m0 were not finished and blue_e had too many 0 loss ships. I understand people have rl lives but if you cba to finish Stats don't start them. And BB I don't see a set from you...
Well i wont be putting any more sets up while there is other people doing so atm.

I just find it wierd that this one was choosed, as personaly i think this one aitn suitable
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 19:33   #49
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Re: Yet another set of stats

BB it wouldn't matter if it was the best set or the worst set, you have a problem with ME not the set. You are just too polite to say it.
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Unread 3 Aug 2015, 21:31   #50
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Re: Yet another set of stats

He's not "too polite". It's pretty obvious. That's fine as long as it doesn't impact your ability to objectively analyze stats. You're not exactly my BFF either (and I'm sure the feeling is mutual), but if the stats are good, I don't give half a shit if you're Adolf Hitler or Mahatma Gandhi.
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