New Ideas For Covert Operations

[Lοki]

There have been a lot of topics concerning covert ops, all of them end up dead because noone bothers about cov ops. I think they are fun but they are not useful enough. It'd be fun if people really could chose a "cov opper" path just as they can be a scanner.

#1. Make a Cov Op that tells you which fleet of a certain planet is where at the present time. Sort of a reversed Jpg scan.
#2. Say the last cov op to be researched, one that can check what ships are in the different fleets. This should obviously cost a lot of agents=resources, and be hard to come through. It would really limit the huge amount of fake defence that scares away attackers (sending an x amount of harpies and 1 chimera will fake x+1 chimeras, currently theres no possible way to check if the defender is really sending useful ships).

Perhaps I'll post some other ideas later. Any other suggestions and comments on the above ones?

[furball]

The first one's not bad, there's definate benefits there. However, I would want it to be agent-heavy, etc. This would be a very good use for a mutually exclusive tech tree, much like the hyperspace/mil scans choice of the early rounds.

However, the second's too strong in my opinion, I don't think it'd be good for the game - where alliances survive on fake defence.


Keep going

[Monroe]

I agree with firball, the first idea has some potential merrit and should be fleshed out a bit. The second idea is too powerful and removes a valuable tactic used by many in this game.

[Squidly]

Mmm... I can see where you guys would be concerned... But if it cost a lot of agents and the significant amount of time to research the entire path {which not many do anyways, as noted above} ... It could work. Remember that life becomes more difficult for cov-oppers with security centers being around... and it just may force people to make a few if they like sending fake def.

One concern however would be that it could compromise xan's ability to not be fleet scanned.

Whether that's a good or a bad thing is another story

[Shyne]

Why dont they make the blow ships up covop better? Imo its not worth doing anymore.

[Kargool]

I agree on first suggestion but disagree on the second one. We dont need another good defoption taken away.

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Shyne

Why dont they make the blow ships up covop better? Imo its not worth doing anymore.

I think its funny.

I always round my ships up never have odd numbers so when someone cov ops me and blows up 1 ship or 2 just annoys me something chronic.

[higginz]

what about cov ops that convert ships to ur side i.e. steal their ships and send them to u?

You could have one that "learns" from the victim, i.e. can take a technology that u dont have?

This one might be a bit daft, not sure really, but what about being able to "freeze" the victims resources so they cant build def ships?

Think these would make people think about being dedicated cov oppers so....

[Lοki]

Mmm... I can see where you guys would be concerned... But if it cost a lot of agents and the significant amount of time to research the entire path {which not many do anyways, as noted above} ... It could work. Remember that life becomes more difficult for cov-oppers with security centers being around... and it just may force people to make a few if they like sending fake def.

That's exactly why I suggested it. When being a cov opper, you'll have to sacrifice your first engineering spot to security (probable). If you want to make sure you won't be cov opped, you should do it as well, and build security centers. Sort of amplifier/distorter building. Though it should be very hard, cost 35 or more agents (that's over 100k resources!) to do one cov op. This way you can't just do that for every def call in the alliance. Fake defence is a strategic option, but currently it's exactly as effective as normal defence. That's too much I think.

Why dont they make the blow ships up covop better? Imo its not worth doing anymore.

I agree on this one. I like making the cov op steal ships. Especially nice for the non-ziks. And make it a bit more valuable, instead of 3 vsh destroyed, steal like 15 or more?

You could have one that "learns" from the victim, i.e. can take a technology that u dont have?

I wonder.... I don't know how that should be realised. A cov opper wouldn't have to do any research at all and gain a major head start. What would be a similar nice idea, but almost impossible I think, is to steal the plan to make 1 kind of ship. Any ideas to make that work without ppl stealing all ship types?

This one might be a bit daft, not sure really, but what about being able to "freeze" the victims resources so they cant build def ships?

Looks ok to me, for say 3 ticks?

Think these would make people think about being dedicated cov oppers so....

so? more choices and more variation! It's time we make cov ops worth using I reckon.

[noah02]

stealing ships by cov op is a big No no.

To much abuse can only come out of it.

[higginz]

Any ideas to make that work without ppl stealing all ship types?

spose you could do that, and only be able to steal one ship design from each race. If it was random too, would mean that covoppers couldnt abuse this and simply choose which ships they want and make it a little more challenging. Also the risk that the next ship design you steal isnt as good as your current one, i.e. you might end up with struc killers

Would be interesting for a zik to steal cat cr designs etc but wouldnt make the game unbalanced as only one ship design from each race say could be stolen

[Lοki]

That could be an idea... though indeed one zik would have advantage over another for having a certain type of ship... so i'd say you can choose your ship type. combo fleets are always nice - for the attacker

[Envious]

getting info through cov op makes no sense at all.. this is what SCANS are supposed to be good for.

ok ok i can see you screaming "PA is not logical", but still.

[Lοki]

PA is not realistic

I think cov ops should have use, and I think just scanning someone to know what exactly is heading where is way too easy. And there are enough scan types already.

[Ron7684]

Well, i see one problem with this.

Covert opping always does something: Reduce stealth, kill ships, kill amps, steal resources, set back research, blow up asteroids.

Notice specifically with the set back research, it doesnt tell you which research you've set back.

Both of the suggestions you made are NOT covert ops, they are scans. No covert ops tell you any information about a planet, even asteroid destroying, it doesnt even tell you you blew up 3 out of x roids they have.

So this is a WAVE, what would the defender see on their news? "30 agents snuck in and found out what ships fleet alpha is comprised of". My point is, unless it disrupts something, like 50 agents take out the navigation systems of the fleet and they end up having to go home before landing, its not a Cov op, its just another wave

[MrLobster]

Originally Posted by Envious

getting info through cov op makes no sense at all.. this is what SCANS are supposed to be good for.

ok ok i can see you screaming "PA is not logical", but still.

Well that settles it then, get rid of waves completly, and use agents for everything instead. It would fit everything together better.

[Lοki]

So this is a WAVE, what would the defender see on their news? "30 agents snuck in and found out what ships fleet alpha is comprised of". My point is, unless it disrupts something, like 50 agents take out the navigation systems of the fleet and they end up having to go home before landing, its not a Cov op, its just another wave

Don't agree. Cov ops can serve for information gathering just as well. If you could STOP a fleet from attacking, that would make the entire universe passive of people just stopping attackers.

Perhaps we should wait for the real new game of next round to see whether or not to do these cov ops.

In the meanwhile, does anyone have more ideas?

[Ron7684]

i wasnt suggesting a Cov Op, i was giving an example.

And cov ops DO NOT serve for gathering information, if they do, provide me with one covert op that gives you information on the targeted planet

[Lοki]

they do not...
YET.

And i didn't say you suggested a cov op either,

In the meanwhile, does anyone have MORE ideas?

[rop1964]

i would remind ppls that many real life covert op were basically spies.. which gather information, did sabotage and stealing technologies.. having covert op getting more diversity is not bad.. it s a complement to the scanner.. and those can be block by securitty center as well as engineers.. so i say let s get better covert op!

[KingAlan]

I like #1.
And I also agree with the idea that 'Sabotage' (the Kill Ships covert op) should be improved. it's way to weak, and for what you spend on the op, you barely destroy anything. [Recently, I sent 5 agents, who successfully managed to kill 1 Sentinel]

the 'Hacking: Resource Transfers' covert op sure is useful- I love that one.

[olle]

Just some ides/Suggestions

How about special cov-op ability for each race or the ones that have bonus stealth (Cat&Zik) or opposite (Ter/Xan having the special ability)?

Cat: Freeze a ship in 1 tick... or maybe 2... even 3.
Ter: Get higher kill/destroy rate in sabotage
Xan: Uncloak a ship? Or as it’s been mentioned in the thread (higginz), Freeze resources for 1..2..3.. or 4 ticks?
Zik: Steal a ship... for not to abuse it make the ratio low or something

Btw regarding Sabotage, how about adjusting it to the ship value for kill. Example: Vsh cost less so if successfully you destroy say 15. But if you did it to a Terran, 10 Harpys would be destroyed and not 15. It would balance things and not make it abusive...

Originally Posted by KingAlan

[Recently, I sent 5 agents, who successfully managed to kill 1 Sentinel]

Originally Posted by from the manual

The more agents that are sent the bigger the impact they make.

Comment on the first post, the two ides from Dark Link. I like the first one, dunno about the second thou.