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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 17:06   #1
M0RPH3US
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m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

effs are not rdy at all - so those numbers are more or less random (apart from some fighters) - will try to finish this asap

targeting, inits and ships (types and names) are - basically all you need to get an idea where the set is going
will most likely add resource stealers for etd and zik and maybe ter

yes cat and zik have 3 pods each
yes all zik ships are steal ships (zik is still able to roid 2 of 5 races solo)
and yes there is a link to look at 2

http://xmas.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats

Have Fun discussing
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 17:44   #2
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Cool xmas background

Will take a look when I get a chance
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 21:02   #3
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

You have all zik inits backwards Sair firing before ravager, Thief firing before Crook. Bigger ships should fire before smaller ships.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 23:48   #4
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Why should they always fire first?! lol
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 00:13   #5
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Because, Zik already fire after everyone why make them fire after their lower eta ships. Now zik just def into zik with no loss.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 00:15   #6
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
Why should they always fire first?! lol
Because if you make the bigger ships fire after the smaller ships then you are making zik fr and cr redundant because steal vs steal is 0 loss for the faster init as there is nothing for the slower ship to steal.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 01:09   #7
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Ummm no. Depends on other races (both attack and defence fleets), not to mention targetting classes the ships fire into.

Not sure that applies to these stats though
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 01:40   #8
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

I'd wager a dime bet that once you finish these De/Fr are the only viable option for any alliance.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 05:39   #9
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
You have all zik inits backwards Sair firing before ravager, Thief firing before Crook. Bigger ships should fire before smaller ships.
i agree and resolved this among another change concerning xan fi roiding xan (usually a scenario of a xan universe)

here is the changes:
XAN:
fireblade init 7 > 6
ZIK:
corsair init 19 -> 22
thief init 20 -> 21
ravager 20 > 21
crook 21 > 20
rogue 21 > 19
ETD:
avenger init 6 > 7
investor init 21 > 22

now zik attack fleets are preiniting their lower eta ships
while zik still has preinit defence against zik available in out of attack class - same eta defence ships (dagger, buccaneer, rogue)

xan de is now not roidable (without losses) by xan fi anymore - therefore etd lost its sameinit ship against xan fi
still 2 races with preinit/sameinit kill ships against xan fi (ter and xan, instead of ter and etd before)
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Last edited by M0RPH3US; 22 Jul 2015 at 05:45.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 19:38   #10
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

I agree with Papadoc's synopsis
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 21:01   #11
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

care to explain why you think so ?

any of you ?
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 21:12   #12
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

The main reason I think so is due to the targetting. Obviously see what you've done with cr/bs targetting fr/de respectively but not the other. However, the ST nature of cr/bs attack fleets in these stats means the split in fleet value will not allow a decent fleet targetting concentration.

Feel most alliances will just go with strats to build 4 ships maximum which means fr/de as with them generally out initting fi/co as well as being able to pump more value into their attack fleet for better targetting concentration, it makes fi/co and cr/bs a somewhat unattractive option.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 21:45   #13
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
The main reason I think so is due to the targetting. Obviously see what you've done with cr/bs targetting fr/de respectively but not the other. However, the ST nature of cr/bs attack fleets in these stats means the split in fleet value will not allow a decent fleet targetting concentration.

Feel most alliances will just go with strats to build 4 ships maximum which means fr/de as with them generally out initting fi/co as well as being able to pump more value into their attack fleet for better targetting concentration, it makes fi/co and cr/bs a somewhat unattractive option.
i see the benefits in defence going fr/de - i dont think this excludes any other strategy for alliances though
having fr/de viable is a must to me - as much as fi/co and cr/bs

i am always aiming a set where every metaclass is playable
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 01:08   #14
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Fairyfly NO JUST NO

Firefly Yes JUST YES!!
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 01:10   #15
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

I would like the idea that xan get a Meta 2+3 pod, to combat the cloak ability.
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 06:09   #16
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLobster View Post
Fairyfly NO JUST NO

Firefly Yes JUST YES!!
fixxed
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 20:54   #17
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Running my stats-balancer on your stats gives me the following output:

Running simple check for Ter Fr...
Ter Fr roids Ter:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Phoenix: Centaur has init 7, Phoenix has init 8
- Attacker Syren beats defender Tarragon: Syren has init 6, Tarragon has init 7
Ter Fr roids Cat:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Firefly: Pegasus is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Scarab: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Syren beats defender Mantis: Syren is Ter and resists EMP
Ter Fr does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Vsharak: Pegasus has init 5, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Reaper beats attacker Centaur: Reaper has init 5, Centaur has init 7
Ter Fr roids Zik:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Corsair: Centaur has init 7, Corsair has init 22
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Buccaneer: Centaur has init 7, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Syren beats defender Crook: Syren has init 6, Crook has init 20
Ter Fr roids Etd:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Dealer: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Syren beats defender Investor: Syren has init 6, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for Ter Bs...
Ter Bs does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Chimera: Hydra has init 6, Chimera has init 8
- Defender Tarragon beats attacker Dragon: Tarragon has init 7, Dragon has init 8
Ter Bs roids Cat:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Widow: Hydra is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Roach: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
Ter Bs does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Ghost: Hydra has init 6, Ghost has init 8
- Defender Wraith beats attacker Dragon: Wraith has init 7, Dragon has init 8
Ter Bs roids Zik:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Buccaneer: Hydra has init 6, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 20
Ter Bs roids Etd:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Judge: Hydra has init 6, Judge has init 7
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Investor: Dragon has init 8, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for Cat Fi...
Cat Fi does not roid Ter:
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Firefly: Phoenix is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Firefly: Pegasus is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Demon beats attacker Spider: Demon has init 7, Spider has init 8
Cat Fi does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Viper: Both sides fire at init 3, but Firefly uses t1, while Viper uses t2
- Defender Moth beats attacker Spider: Moth has init 2, Spider has init 8
Cat Fi does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Banshee: Firefly has init 3, Banshee has init 5
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Spider: Fireblade has init 6, Spider has init 8
Cat Fi roids Zik:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Cutlass: Firefly has init 3, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Ravager: Firefly has init 3, Ravager has init 21
Cat Fi does not roid Etd:
- Defender Creditor beats attacker Firefly: Creditor has init 2, Firefly has init 3
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Avenger: Firefly has init 3, Avenger has init 7
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Spider: Tycoon has init 2, Spider has init 8

Running simple check for Cat De...
Cat De does not roid Ter:
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Scarab: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Hydra beats attacker Widow: Hydra is Ter and resists EMP
Cat De roids Cat:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Spider: Moth has init 2, Spider has init 8
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Beetle: Scarab has init 2, Beetle has init 3
Cat De roids Xan:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Vsharak: Moth has init 2, Vsharak has init 6
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Bomber: Scarab has init 2, Bomber has init 6
Cat De roids Zik:
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Cutlass: Scarab has init 2, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Clipper: Scarab has init 2, Clipper has init 22
Cat De roids Etd:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Gryphon: Moth has init 2, Gryphon has init 21
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Dealer: Scarab has init 2, Dealer has init 3
- Attacker Widow beats defender Predator: Widow has init 3, Predator has init 7

Running simple check for Cat Cr...
Cat Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Syren beats attacker Mantis: Syren is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Roach: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
Cat Cr does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Beetle: Mantis has init 2, Beetle has init 3
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Viper: Mantis has init 2, Viper has init 3
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Roach: Tarantula has init 1, Roach has init 3
Cat Cr roids Xan:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Bomber: Mantis has init 2, Bomber has init 6
- Attacker Roach beats defender Spectre: Roach has init 3, Spectre has init 7
Cat Cr roids Zik:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Thief: Mantis has init 2, Thief has init 21
- Attacker Roach beats defender Rogue: Roach has init 3, Rogue has init 19
Cat Cr does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Wanderer: Mantis has init 2, Wanderer has init 3
- Defender Baliff beats attacker Roach: Baliff has init 2, Roach has init 3

Running simple check for Xan Fi...
Xan Fi does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Phoenix: Phantom has init 4, Phoenix has init 8
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Vsharak: Pegasus has init 5, Vsharak has init 6
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Demon: Vsharak has init 6, Demon has init 7
Xan Fi does not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Vsharak: Viper has init 3, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Moth beats attacker Vsharak: Moth has init 2, Vsharak has init 6
Xan Fi roids Xan:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Banshee: Phantom has init 4, Banshee has init 5
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Fireblade: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharak uses t1, while Fireblade uses t2
Xan Fi roids Zik:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Ravager: Vsharak has init 6, Ravager has init 21
Xan Fi does not roid Etd:
- Defender Creditor beats attacker Phantom: Creditor has init 2, Phantom has init 4
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Avenger: Vsharak has init 6, Avenger has init 7
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Vsharak: Tycoon has init 2, Vsharak has init 6

Running simple check for Xan De...
Xan De does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Centaur: Reaper has init 5, Centaur has init 7
- Defender Hydra beats attacker Ghost: Hydra has init 6, Ghost has init 8
Xan De does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Spider: Fireblade has init 6, Spider has init 8
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Reaper: Beetle has init 3, Reaper has init 5
Xan De does not roid Xan:
- Defender Vsharak beats attacker Fireblade: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharak uses t1, while Fireblade uses t2
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Bomber: Reaper has init 5, Bomber has init 6
Xan De roids Zik:
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Cutlass: Fireblade has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Clipper: Reaper has init 5, Clipper has init 22
Xan De does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Gryphon: Fireblade has init 6, Gryphon has init 21
- Defender Dealer beats attacker Fireblade: Dealer has init 3, Fireblade has init 6
- Defender Predator beats attacker Ghost: Predator has init 7, Ghost has init 8

Running simple check for Zik Co...
Zik Co does not roid Ter:
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Cutlass: Harpy has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Corsair: Centaur has init 7, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Demon beats attacker Cutlass: Demon has init 7, Cutlass has init 20
Zik Co does not roid Cat:
- Defender Firefly beats attacker Cutlass: Firefly has init 3, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Cutlass: Scarab has init 2, Cutlass has init 20
Zik Co does not roid Xan:
- Defender Phantom beats attacker Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Cutlass: Fireblade has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
Zik Co does not roid Zik:
- Defender Dagger beats attacker Cutlass: Dagger has init 19, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Ravager beats attacker Corsair: Ravager has init 21, Corsair has init 22
Zik Co does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Cutlass beats defender Gryphon: Cutlass has init 20, Gryphon has init 21
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Corsair: Wanderer has init 3, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Cutlass: Tycoon has init 2, Cutlass has init 20

Running simple check for Zik Fr...
Zik Fr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Ravager: Phoenix has init 8, Ravager has init 21
- Defender Tarragon beats attacker Thief: Tarragon has init 7, Thief has init 21
Zik Fr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Firefly beats attacker Ravager: Firefly has init 3, Ravager has init 21
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Clipper: Scarab has init 2, Clipper has init 22
- Defender Mantis beats attacker Thief: Mantis has init 2, Thief has init 21
Zik Fr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Vsharak beats attacker Ravager: Vsharak has init 6, Ravager has init 21
- Defender Reaper beats attacker Clipper: Reaper has init 5, Clipper has init 22
Zik Fr does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Ravager beats defender Corsair: Ravager has init 21, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Clipper: Buccaneer has init 21, Clipper has init 22
- Defender Crook beats attacker Thief: Crook has init 20, Thief has init 21
Zik Fr does not roid Etd:
- Defender Dealer beats attacker Ravager: Dealer has init 3, Ravager has init 21
- Attacker Thief beats defender Investor: Thief has init 21, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for Zik Cr...
Zik Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Syren beats attacker Crook: Syren has init 6, Crook has init 20
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Crook: Beetle has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Viper beats attacker Crook: Viper has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Pirate: Tarantula has init 1, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Bomber beats attacker Crook: Bomber has init 6, Crook has init 20
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Pirate: Spectre has init 7, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Crook beats defender Thief: Crook has init 20, Thief has init 21
- Defender Rogue beats attacker Pirate: Rogue has init 19, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Etd:
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Crook: Wanderer has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Baliff beats attacker Pirate: Baliff has init 2, Pirate has init 20

Running simple check for Etd Co...
Etd Co does not roid Ter:
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Creditor: Harpy is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Dealer: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Demon beats attacker Dealer: Demon is Ter and resists EMP
Etd Co does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Firefly: Creditor has init 2, Firefly has init 3
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Dealer: Scarab has init 2, Dealer has init 3
Etd Co roids Xan:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Phantom: Creditor has init 2, Phantom has init 4
- Attacker Dealer beats defender Fireblade: Dealer has init 3, Fireblade has init 6
Etd Co roids Zik:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Dagger: Creditor has init 2, Dagger has init 19
- Attacker Dealer beats defender Ravager: Dealer has init 3, Ravager has init 21
Etd Co does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Gryphon: Creditor has init 2, Gryphon has init 21
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Dealer: Both sides fire at init 3, but Wanderer uses t2, while Dealer uses t2
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Dealer: Tycoon has init 2, Dealer has init 3

Running simple check for Etd Bs...
Etd Bs does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Predator beats defender Chimera: Predator has init 7, Chimera has init 8
- Defender Tarragon beats attacker Baliff: Tarragon is Ter and resists EMP
Etd Bs does not roid Cat:
- Defender Widow beats attacker Predator: Widow has init 3, Predator has init 7
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Roach: Baliff has init 2, Roach has init 3
Etd Bs roids Xan:
- Attacker Predator beats defender Ghost: Predator has init 7, Ghost has init 8
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Wraith: Baliff has init 2, Wraith has init 7
Etd Bs roids Zik:
- Attacker Predator beats defender Buccaneer: Predator has init 7, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Pirate: Baliff has init 2, Pirate has init 20
Etd Bs does not roid Etd:
- Defender Judge beats attacker Predator: Both sides fire at init 7, but Judge uses t1, while Predator uses t1
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Investor: Baliff has init 2, Investor has init 22

Code:
|           | Ter   | Cat   | Xan   | Zik   | Etd   | Lands on |
|-----------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+----------|
| Ter Fr    | roids | roids |       | roids | roids |        4 |
| Ter Bs    |       | roids |       | roids | roids |        3 |
| Cat Fi    |       |       |       | roids |       |        1 |
| Cat De    |       | roids | roids | roids | roids |        4 |
| Cat Cr    |       |       | roids | roids |       |        2 |
| Xan Fi    |       |       | roids | roids |       |        2 |
| Xan De    |       |       |       | roids |       |        1 |
| Zik Co    |       |       |       |       |       |        0 |
| Zik Fr    |       |       |       |       |       |        0 |
| Zik Cr    |       |       |       |       |       |        0 |
| Etd Co    |       |       | roids | roids |       |        2 |
| Etd Bs    |       |       | roids | roids |       |        2 |
| Landed on | 1     | 3     | 5     | 9     | 3     |          |
Ter hilariously OP, both offensively and defensively. Etd a bit on the strong side. Zik hilariously underpowered, both offensively and defensively. Etd and Xan a bit weak too, though not nearly as much. Giving Zik flawless defense and offence against Ter and Xan an in on Etd would go a long way, imo.

But most importantly of all, ****ing 'Tarragon'? We are not naming a shipt after a ****ing sunflower.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 23 Jul 2015 at 21:04.
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Unread 24 Jul 2015, 18:24   #18
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

thx for this - however since its ignoring that emp can always be roided - its a little off
i agree about terran beeing op though - looking into it
and wtf is this xyz is terran it resists emp !? - thats watering the result aswell

i will not add kill ships for zik btw

dunno where i got Tarragon from - was searching for monster synonyms - name will be changed - suggestions welcome
was thinking about "Munks"
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Unread 24 Jul 2015, 19:06   #19
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
and wtf is this xyz is terran it resists emp !? - thats watering the result aswell
That's the approach I take when I look at stats. I simply assume that Ter has high ERes, and that Cat will have a hard time roiding them.
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Unread 25 Jul 2015, 01:10   #20
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Agree with the munks ship name.

For simple comparison mz script is alright. But really, we all know game dynamics are never so simple. Last round you were able to throw cat de with zik fr and roid easy, the same as teaming classes like zik co and cat co meant you could roid really easy with just corsair and beetle fleets.

Anyway, pinch of salt that is all. But useful for solo analysis.
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Unread 25 Jul 2015, 04:32   #21
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

just throwing this in here. ship costs are less than half the cost of last round.
with BS being 6 times cheaper than last round.

Could keep A/C ,D/C the same but increase ship costs or theres going to be millions of ships flying around on the first night.
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Unread 25 Jul 2015, 05:32   #22
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by gallzilla View Post
just throwing this in here. ship costs are less than half the cost of last round.
with BS being 6 times cheaper than last round.

Could keep A/C ,D/C the same but increase ship costs or theres going to be millions of ships flying around on the first night.
but i love big fleets
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Unread 25 Jul 2015, 07:00   #23
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Last round's ship cost variation was extreme, with Ter Bs being 61 times more expensive than Ter Fi. That ratio is 12 with m0rpheus' stats. Personally, I prefer the ratios a bit higher, say 30s, but ultimately it's fairly inconsequential.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 25 Jul 2015, 07:23   #24
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Last round's ship cost variation was extreme, with Ter Bs being 61 times more expensive than Ter Fi. That ratio is 12 with m0rpheus' stats. Personally, I prefer the ratios a bit higher, say 30s, but ultimately it's fairly inconsequential.

My General Rule is Each class is 2x the cost the one below it. If Fi is X Then Co is 2x Fr is 4x De is 8x Cr is 16x and Bs is 32x Which is what Mzy said. But it should be a variance. I do think that the Bs last round were a bit over costed but it only really matters for trying to balance emp. 400 D/C is still going to be 400 D/C weather its 4 damage or 300 damage.

My only Caviot is that All ships of the same class are + or - 10% total Cost this past round i was so pissed with all of ETD Fi and Co costs skewing calcs. Since Etd fi cost 2.5x more than Xan or Ter, and Etd Co cost almost 3x more than zik can cat Co. It's not just a I am being nit picky it has huge effects on the % of ships that are targeted mainly by emp.

So PLEASE all stats makers keep all ships of the same class similarly costed.
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Unread 25 Jul 2015, 08:10   #25
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

There is one other way in which inter-class cost variance matters: faking. With wide cost variance, it's less risky to fake, but fakes are easier to stop. WIth low cost variance, it's riskier, but you have a better chance of landing.

As for in-class cost variance, I agree. My r50 stats had a huge difference in cost between Ter De and Xan De and it was a bit of a nuisance for both Xans and Cats.
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Unread 26 Jul 2015, 20:56   #26
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

I found ship costs hard to balance when there is a emp ship firing at two classes with very different ship costs. Example, a FR firing at CR and DE. I didn't saw a similar ship in the past sets, so I guess not only me found it hard. The solution was to bring CR costs down and raise their E/Rs. CR costs became not as great as in previous rounds but still way above DE. In case of the Cath, it increases the risk but makes faking CR with CO really powerful indeed.
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Unread 27 Jul 2015, 00:05   #27
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Ideally you'd want a single scale of 0-100 with Fi around 0 ERes and Bs near 99. Unfortunately, a change from 95 to 96 ERes is an increase of 25%, which leaves very little room for balancing. In addition, even at an already hard-to-balance 95 ERes for Bs, that places a limit on the smallest Fi : Bs cost ratio that we can possibly balance of 20 : 1. And keep in mind, the smallest ships are usually Xan, which tend to be vulnerable to EMP, so the ratio is probably closer to 15 : 1.

The only other option is to introduce a break in the ERes scale somewhere halfway through. That way you can put Bs around 80 ERes and adjust EMP ships' guns for that, using a scale of 0-80 for Bs through De, then start over again at 80 ERes for Fr, and reuse the same 0-80 scale for Fr through Fi. This has a different disadvantage: it means that 1 gun firing on Bs, Cr or De freezes much more value than a gun firing at Fr, Co or Fi, which you have no way of balancing. If you introduce a break like this, you may introduce no ships that fire T1 at a class in one scale and T2 at a class in the other. Where there is a break in the ERes scale, there must also be a break in the EMP ship targetting. My r50 stats had 2 breaks, if I remember correctly, between each metaclass.

I know this is all very abstract, so here's an example. Let's say our stats only have 6 ships:

Fighter: ERes 20, Cost 200
Corvette: ERes 60, Cost 400
Frigate: ERes 80, Cost 800
Destroyer: ERes 20, Cost 1600
Cruiser: ERes 60, Cost 3200
Battleship: ERes 80, Cost 6400

An EMP gun that fires at Fi, Co or Fr hugs (1 - 0.2) * 200 = (1 - 0.6) * 400 = (1 - 0.8) * 800 = 160 resources, while an EMP gun that fires at De, Cr or Bs hugs (1 - 0.8) * 1600 = (1 - 0.6) * 3200 = (1 - 0.8) * 6400 = 1280 resources. Our one break lies between Fr and De. We have no ERes numbers that get close to 100, and we can balance Fr and Bs in about 5% increments, which is fine.

If we now make a Viper that costs 426 resources and fires at Fr, it should have about 4 guns:

4 * (1 - 0.8) * 800 = 640 resources worth of Fr EMPed, which is an eff of ~150%.

But if that Viper fires at De with its T2 at 60%, that allows it to stun:

4 * (1 - 0.2) * 1600 * 0.6 = 3072 resources worth of De EMPed, which is a T2 eff of ~720%!

This is what I meant by 'there must also be a break in the EMP ship targetting'. If your EMP ship fires at a class on one side of the ERes break, it may not also fire at a ship on the other side of the break, or your EMP effs go completely haywire.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 27 Jul 2015 at 00:13.
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Unread 27 Jul 2015, 04:45   #28
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Would it not be easier for stat makers to replace EMres with shields. A lot easier to control and fine tune. And you can even use the current damage attack formula, but just place these ships in emp field.
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Unread 27 Jul 2015, 10:37   #29
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Yes, that would be easier.
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Unread 28 Jul 2015, 12:46   #30
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Reran my checker:

Running simple check for Ter Fr...
Ter Fr roids Ter:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Phoenix: Centaur has init 7, Phoenix has init 8
- Attacker Syren beats defender Ogre: Syren has init 6, Ogre has init 7
Ter Fr roids Cat:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Firefly: Pegasus is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Scarab: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Syren beats defender Mantis: Syren is Ter and resists EMP
Ter Fr does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Vsharak: Pegasus has init 5, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Reaper beats attacker Centaur: Reaper has init 5, Centaur has init 7
Ter Fr roids Zik:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Corsair: Centaur has init 7, Corsair has init 22
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Buccaneer: Centaur has init 7, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Syren beats defender Crook: Syren has init 6, Crook has init 20
Ter Fr roids Etd:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Dealer: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Syren beats defender Investor: Syren has init 6, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for Ter Bs...
Ter Bs does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Chimera: Hydra has init 6, Chimera has init 8
- Defender Ogre beats attacker Dragon: Ogre has init 7, Dragon has init 8
Ter Bs roids Cat:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Widow: Hydra is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Roach: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
Ter Bs does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Ghost: Hydra has init 6, Ghost has init 8
- Defender Wraith beats attacker Dragon: Wraith has init 7, Dragon has init 8
Ter Bs roids Zik:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Buccaneer: Hydra has init 6, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 20
Ter Bs roids Etd:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Judge: Hydra has init 6, Judge has init 7
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Investor: Dragon has init 8, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for Cat Fi...
Cat Fi does not roid Ter:
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Firefly: Phoenix is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Firefly: Pegasus is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Demon beats attacker Spider: Demon has init 7, Spider has init 8
Cat Fi does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Viper: Both sides fire at init 3, but Firefly uses t1, while Viper uses t2
- Defender Moth beats attacker Spider: Moth has init 2, Spider has init 8
Cat Fi does not roid Xan:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Banshee: Firefly has init 3, Banshee has init 5
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Spider: Fireblade has init 6, Spider has init 8
Cat Fi roids Zik:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Cutlass: Firefly has init 3, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Ravager: Firefly has init 3, Ravager has init 21
Cat Fi does not roid Etd:
- Defender Creditor beats attacker Firefly: Creditor has init 2, Firefly has init 3
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Avenger: Firefly has init 3, Avenger has init 7
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Spider: Tycoon has init 2, Spider has init 8

Running simple check for Cat De...
Cat De does not roid Ter:
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Scarab: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Hydra beats attacker Widow: Hydra is Ter and resists EMP
Cat De roids Cat:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Spider: Moth has init 2, Spider has init 8
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Beetle: Scarab has init 2, Beetle has init 3
Cat De roids Xan:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Vsharak: Moth has init 2, Vsharak has init 6
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Bomber: Scarab has init 2, Bomber has init 6
Cat De roids Zik:
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Cutlass: Scarab has init 2, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Clipper: Scarab has init 2, Clipper has init 22
Cat De roids Etd:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Gryphon: Moth has init 2, Gryphon has init 21
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Dealer: Scarab has init 2, Dealer has init 3
- Attacker Widow beats defender Predator: Widow has init 3, Predator has init 7

Running simple check for Cat Cr...
Cat Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Syren beats attacker Mantis: Syren is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Roach: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
Cat Cr does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Beetle: Mantis has init 2, Beetle has init 3
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Viper: Mantis has init 2, Viper has init 3
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Roach: Tarantula has init 1, Roach has init 3
Cat Cr roids Xan:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Bomber: Mantis has init 2, Bomber has init 6
- Attacker Roach beats defender Spectre: Roach has init 3, Spectre has init 7
Cat Cr roids Zik:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Thief: Mantis has init 2, Thief has init 21
- Attacker Roach beats defender Rogue: Roach has init 3, Rogue has init 19
Cat Cr does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Wanderer: Mantis has init 2, Wanderer has init 3
- Defender Baliff beats attacker Roach: Baliff has init 2, Roach has init 3

Running simple check for Xan Fi...
Xan Fi does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Phoenix: Phantom has init 4, Phoenix has init 8
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Vsharak: Pegasus has init 5, Vsharak has init 6
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Demon: Vsharak has init 6, Demon has init 7
Xan Fi does not roid Cat:
- Defender Viper beats attacker Vsharak: Viper has init 3, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Moth beats attacker Vsharak: Moth has init 2, Vsharak has init 6
Xan Fi roids Xan:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Banshee: Phantom has init 4, Banshee has init 5
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Fireblade: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharak uses t1, while Fireblade uses t2
Xan Fi roids Zik:
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Ravager: Vsharak has init 6, Ravager has init 21
Xan Fi does not roid Etd:
- Defender Creditor beats attacker Phantom: Creditor has init 2, Phantom has init 4
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Avenger: Vsharak has init 6, Avenger has init 7
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Vsharak: Tycoon has init 2, Vsharak has init 6

Running simple check for Xan De...
Xan De does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Centaur: Reaper has init 5, Centaur has init 7
- Defender Hydra beats attacker Ghost: Hydra has init 6, Ghost has init 8
Xan De does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Spider: Fireblade has init 6, Spider has init 8
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Reaper: Beetle has init 3, Reaper has init 5
Xan De does not roid Xan:
- Defender Vsharak beats attacker Fireblade: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharak uses t1, while Fireblade uses t2
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Bomber: Reaper has init 5, Bomber has init 6
Xan De roids Zik:
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Cutlass: Fireblade has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Clipper: Reaper has init 5, Clipper has init 22
Xan De does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Gryphon: Fireblade has init 6, Gryphon has init 21
- Defender Dealer beats attacker Fireblade: Dealer has init 3, Fireblade has init 6
- Defender Predator beats attacker Ghost: Predator has init 7, Ghost has init 8

Running simple check for Zik Co...
Zik Co does not roid Ter:
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Cutlass: Harpy has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Corsair: Centaur has init 7, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Demon beats attacker Cutlass: Demon has init 7, Cutlass has init 20
Zik Co does not roid Cat:
- Defender Firefly beats attacker Cutlass: Firefly has init 3, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Cutlass: Scarab has init 2, Cutlass has init 20
Zik Co does not roid Xan:
- Defender Phantom beats attacker Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Cutlass: Fireblade has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
Zik Co does not roid Zik:
- Defender Dagger beats attacker Cutlass: Dagger has init 19, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Ravager beats attacker Corsair: Ravager has init 21, Corsair has init 22
Zik Co does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Cutlass beats defender Gryphon: Cutlass has init 20, Gryphon has init 21
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Corsair: Wanderer has init 3, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Cutlass: Tycoon has init 2, Cutlass has init 20

Running simple check for Zik Fr...
Zik Fr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Ravager: Phoenix has init 8, Ravager has init 21
- Defender Ogre beats attacker Thief: Ogre has init 7, Thief has init 21
Zik Fr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Firefly beats attacker Ravager: Firefly has init 3, Ravager has init 21
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Clipper: Scarab has init 2, Clipper has init 22
- Defender Mantis beats attacker Thief: Mantis has init 2, Thief has init 21
Zik Fr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Vsharak beats attacker Ravager: Vsharak has init 6, Ravager has init 21
- Defender Reaper beats attacker Clipper: Reaper has init 5, Clipper has init 22
Zik Fr does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Ravager beats defender Corsair: Ravager has init 21, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Clipper: Buccaneer has init 21, Clipper has init 22
- Defender Crook beats attacker Thief: Crook has init 20, Thief has init 21
Zik Fr does not roid Etd:
- Defender Dealer beats attacker Ravager: Dealer has init 3, Ravager has init 21
- Attacker Thief beats defender Investor: Thief has init 21, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for Zik Cr...
Zik Cr does not roid Ter:
- Defender Syren beats attacker Crook: Syren has init 6, Crook has init 20
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Cat:
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Crook: Beetle has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Viper beats attacker Crook: Viper has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Pirate: Tarantula has init 1, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Xan:
- Defender Bomber beats attacker Crook: Bomber has init 6, Crook has init 20
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Pirate: Spectre has init 7, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Zik:
- Attacker Crook beats defender Thief: Crook has init 20, Thief has init 21
- Defender Rogue beats attacker Pirate: Rogue has init 19, Pirate has init 20
Zik Cr does not roid Etd:
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Crook: Wanderer has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Baliff beats attacker Pirate: Baliff has init 2, Pirate has init 20

Running simple check for Etd Co...
Etd Co does not roid Ter:
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Creditor: Harpy is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Dealer: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Demon beats attacker Dealer: Demon is Ter and resists EMP
Etd Co does not roid Cat:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Firefly: Creditor has init 2, Firefly has init 3
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Dealer: Scarab has init 2, Dealer has init 3
Etd Co roids Xan:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Phantom: Creditor has init 2, Phantom has init 4
- Attacker Dealer beats defender Fireblade: Dealer has init 3, Fireblade has init 6
Etd Co roids Zik:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Dagger: Creditor has init 2, Dagger has init 19
- Attacker Dealer beats defender Ravager: Dealer has init 3, Ravager has init 21
Etd Co does not roid Etd:
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Gryphon: Creditor has init 2, Gryphon has init 21
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Dealer: Both sides fire at init 3, but Wanderer uses t2, while Dealer uses t2
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Dealer: Tycoon has init 2, Dealer has init 3

Running simple check for Etd Bs...
Etd Bs does not roid Ter:
- Attacker Predator beats defender Chimera: Predator has init 7, Chimera has init 8
- Defender Ogre beats attacker Baliff: Ogre is Ter and resists EMP
Etd Bs does not roid Cat:
- Defender Widow beats attacker Predator: Widow has init 3, Predator has init 7
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Roach: Baliff has init 2, Roach has init 3
Etd Bs roids Xan:
- Attacker Predator beats defender Ghost: Predator has init 7, Ghost has init 8
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Wraith: Baliff has init 2, Wraith has init 7
Etd Bs roids Zik:
- Attacker Predator beats defender Buccaneer: Predator has init 7, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Pirate: Baliff has init 2, Pirate has init 20
Etd Bs does not roid Etd:
- Defender Judge beats attacker Predator: Both sides fire at init 7, but Judge uses t1, while Predator uses t1
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Investor: Baliff has init 2, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for Fi teamups...
Fi teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Firefly: Phoenix is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Phoenix: Phantom has init 4, Phoenix has init 8
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Firefly: Pegasus is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Pegasus beats attacker Vsharak: Pegasus has init 5, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Demon beats attacker Spider: Demon has init 7, Spider has init 8
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Demon: Vsharak has init 6, Demon has init 7
Fi teamups do not roid Cat:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Viper: Both sides fire at init 3, but Firefly uses t1, while Viper uses t2
- Defender Viper beats attacker Vsharak: Viper has init 3, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Moth beats attacker Spider: Moth has init 2, Spider has init 8
- Defender Moth beats attacker Vsharak: Moth has init 2, Vsharak has init 6
Fi teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Banshee: Firefly has init 3, Banshee has init 5
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Banshee: Phantom has init 4, Banshee has init 5
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Spider: Fireblade has init 6, Spider has init 8
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Fireblade: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharak uses t1, while Fireblade uses t2
Fi teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Cutlass: Firefly has init 3, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Phantom beats defender Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Ravager: Firefly has init 3, Ravager has init 21
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Ravager: Vsharak has init 6, Ravager has init 21
Fi teamups do not roid Etd:
- Defender Creditor beats attacker Firefly: Creditor has init 2, Firefly has init 3
- Defender Creditor beats attacker Phantom: Creditor has init 2, Phantom has init 4
- Attacker Firefly beats defender Avenger: Firefly has init 3, Avenger has init 7
- Attacker Vsharak beats defender Avenger: Vsharak has init 6, Avenger has init 7
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Spider: Tycoon has init 2, Spider has init 8
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Vsharak: Tycoon has init 2, Vsharak has init 6

Running simple check for Co teamups...
Co teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Cutlass: Harpy has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Harpy beats attacker Creditor: Harpy is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Corsair: Centaur has init 7, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Dealer: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Demon beats attacker Cutlass: Demon has init 7, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Demon beats attacker Dealer: Demon is Ter and resists EMP
Co teamups do not roid Cat:
- Defender Firefly beats attacker Cutlass: Firefly has init 3, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Firefly: Creditor has init 2, Firefly has init 3
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Cutlass: Scarab has init 2, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Dealer: Scarab has init 2, Dealer has init 3
Co teamups roid Xan:
- Defender Phantom beats attacker Cutlass: Phantom has init 4, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Phantom: Creditor has init 2, Phantom has init 4
- Defender Fireblade beats attacker Cutlass: Fireblade has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Dealer beats defender Fireblade: Dealer has init 3, Fireblade has init 6
Co teamups roid Zik:
- Defender Dagger beats attacker Cutlass: Dagger has init 19, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Dagger: Creditor has init 2, Dagger has init 19
- Defender Ravager beats attacker Corsair: Ravager has init 21, Corsair has init 22
- Attacker Dealer beats defender Ravager: Dealer has init 3, Ravager has init 21
Co teamups do not roid Etd:
- Attacker Cutlass beats defender Gryphon: Cutlass has init 20, Gryphon has init 21
- Attacker Creditor beats defender Gryphon: Creditor has init 2, Gryphon has init 21
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Corsair: Wanderer has init 3, Corsair has init 22
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Dealer: Both sides fire at init 3, but Wanderer uses t2, while Dealer uses t2
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Cutlass: Tycoon has init 2, Cutlass has init 20
- Defender Tycoon beats attacker Dealer: Tycoon has init 2, Dealer has init 3

Running simple check for Fr teamups...
Fr teamups roid Ter:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Phoenix: Centaur has init 7, Phoenix has init 8
- Defender Phoenix beats attacker Ravager: Phoenix has init 8, Ravager has init 21
- Attacker Syren beats defender Ogre: Syren has init 6, Ogre has init 7
- Defender Ogre beats attacker Thief: Ogre has init 7, Thief has init 21
Fr teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Firefly: Pegasus is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Firefly beats attacker Ravager: Firefly has init 3, Ravager has init 21
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Scarab: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Scarab beats attacker Clipper: Scarab has init 2, Clipper has init 22
- Attacker Syren beats defender Mantis: Syren is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Mantis beats attacker Thief: Mantis has init 2, Thief has init 21
Fr teamups do not roid Xan:
- Attacker Pegasus beats defender Vsharak: Pegasus has init 5, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Vsharak beats attacker Ravager: Vsharak has init 6, Ravager has init 21
- Defender Reaper beats attacker Centaur: Reaper has init 5, Centaur has init 7
- Defender Reaper beats attacker Clipper: Reaper has init 5, Clipper has init 22
Fr teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Corsair: Centaur has init 7, Corsair has init 22
- Attacker Ravager beats defender Corsair: Ravager has init 21, Corsair has init 22
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Buccaneer: Centaur has init 7, Buccaneer has init 21
- Defender Buccaneer beats attacker Clipper: Buccaneer has init 21, Clipper has init 22
- Attacker Syren beats defender Crook: Syren has init 6, Crook has init 20
- Defender Crook beats attacker Thief: Crook has init 20, Thief has init 21
Fr teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Centaur beats defender Dealer: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dealer beats attacker Ravager: Dealer has init 3, Ravager has init 21
- Attacker Syren beats defender Investor: Syren has init 6, Investor has init 22
- Attacker Thief beats defender Investor: Thief has init 21, Investor has init 22

Running simple check for De teamups...
De teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Centaur beats attacker Scarab: Centaur is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Centaur: Reaper has init 5, Centaur has init 7
- Defender Hydra beats attacker Widow: Hydra is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Hydra beats attacker Ghost: Hydra has init 6, Ghost has init 8
De teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Spider: Moth has init 2, Spider has init 8
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Spider: Fireblade has init 6, Spider has init 8
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Beetle: Scarab has init 2, Beetle has init 3
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Reaper: Beetle has init 3, Reaper has init 5
De teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Vsharak: Moth has init 2, Vsharak has init 6
- Defender Vsharak beats attacker Fireblade: Both sides fire at init 6, but Vsharak uses t1, while Fireblade uses t2
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Bomber: Scarab has init 2, Bomber has init 6
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Bomber: Reaper has init 5, Bomber has init 6
De teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Cutlass: Scarab has init 2, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Cutlass: Fireblade has init 6, Cutlass has init 20
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Clipper: Scarab has init 2, Clipper has init 22
- Attacker Reaper beats defender Clipper: Reaper has init 5, Clipper has init 22
De teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Moth beats defender Gryphon: Moth has init 2, Gryphon has init 21
- Attacker Fireblade beats defender Gryphon: Fireblade has init 6, Gryphon has init 21
- Attacker Scarab beats defender Dealer: Scarab has init 2, Dealer has init 3
- Defender Dealer beats attacker Fireblade: Dealer has init 3, Fireblade has init 6
- Attacker Widow beats defender Predator: Widow has init 3, Predator has init 7
- Defender Predator beats attacker Ghost: Predator has init 7, Ghost has init 8

Running simple check for Cr teamups...
Cr teamups do not roid Ter:
- Defender Syren beats attacker Mantis: Syren is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Syren beats attacker Crook: Syren has init 6, Crook has init 20
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Roach: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Dragon beats attacker Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 20
Cr teamups do not roid Cat:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Beetle: Mantis has init 2, Beetle has init 3
- Defender Beetle beats attacker Crook: Beetle has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Viper: Mantis has init 2, Viper has init 3
- Defender Viper beats attacker Crook: Viper has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Roach: Tarantula has init 1, Roach has init 3
- Defender Tarantula beats attacker Pirate: Tarantula has init 1, Pirate has init 20
Cr teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Bomber: Mantis has init 2, Bomber has init 6
- Defender Bomber beats attacker Crook: Bomber has init 6, Crook has init 20
- Attacker Roach beats defender Spectre: Roach has init 3, Spectre has init 7
- Defender Spectre beats attacker Pirate: Spectre has init 7, Pirate has init 20
Cr teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Thief: Mantis has init 2, Thief has init 21
- Attacker Crook beats defender Thief: Crook has init 20, Thief has init 21
- Attacker Roach beats defender Rogue: Roach has init 3, Rogue has init 19
- Defender Rogue beats attacker Pirate: Rogue has init 19, Pirate has init 20
Cr teamups do not roid Etd:
- Attacker Mantis beats defender Wanderer: Mantis has init 2, Wanderer has init 3
- Defender Wanderer beats attacker Crook: Wanderer has init 3, Crook has init 20
- Defender Baliff beats attacker Roach: Baliff has init 2, Roach has init 3
- Defender Baliff beats attacker Pirate: Baliff has init 2, Pirate has init 20

Running simple check for Bs teamups...
Bs teamups do not roid Ter:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Chimera: Hydra has init 6, Chimera has init 8
- Attacker Predator beats defender Chimera: Predator has init 7, Chimera has init 8
- Defender Ogre beats attacker Dragon: Ogre has init 7, Dragon has init 8
- Defender Ogre beats attacker Baliff: Ogre is Ter and resists EMP
Bs teamups roid Cat:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Widow: Hydra is Ter and resists EMP
- Defender Widow beats attacker Predator: Widow has init 3, Predator has init 7
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Roach: Dragon is Ter and resists EMP
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Roach: Baliff has init 2, Roach has init 3
Bs teamups roid Xan:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Ghost: Hydra has init 6, Ghost has init 8
- Attacker Predator beats defender Ghost: Predator has init 7, Ghost has init 8
- Defender Wraith beats attacker Dragon: Wraith has init 7, Dragon has init 8
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Wraith: Baliff has init 2, Wraith has init 7
Bs teamups roid Zik:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Buccaneer: Hydra has init 6, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Predator beats defender Buccaneer: Predator has init 7, Buccaneer has init 21
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Pirate: Dragon has init 8, Pirate has init 20
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Pirate: Baliff has init 2, Pirate has init 20
Bs teamups roid Etd:
- Attacker Hydra beats defender Judge: Hydra has init 6, Judge has init 7
- Defender Judge beats attacker Predator: Both sides fire at init 7, but Judge uses t1, while Predator uses t1
- Attacker Dragon beats defender Investor: Dragon has init 8, Investor has init 22
- Attacker Baliff beats defender Investor: Baliff has init 2, Investor has init 22

Code:
|           | Ter   | Cat   | Xan   | Zik   | Etd   | Roids |
| Ter Fr    | roids | roids |       | roids | roids |     4 |
| Ter Bs    |       | roids |       | roids | roids |     3 |
| Cat Fi    |       |       |       | roids |       |     1 |
| Cat De    |       | roids | roids | roids | roids |     4 |
| Cat Cr    |       |       | roids | roids |       |     2 |
| Xan Fi    |       |       | roids | roids |       |     2 |
| Xan De    |       |       |       | roids |       |     1 |
| Zik Co    |       |       |       |       |       |     0 |
| Zik Fr    |       |       |       |       |       |     0 |
| Zik Cr    |       |       |       |       |       |     0 |
| Etd Co    |       |       | roids | roids |       |     2 |
| Etd Bs    |       |       | roids | roids |       |     2 |
| Roided by | 1     | 3     | 5     | 9     | 3     |       |
Code:
|           | Ter   | Cat   | Xan   | Zik   | Etd   | Roids |
| Fi        |       |       | roids | roids |       |     2 |
| Co        |       |       | roids | roids |       |     2 |
| Fr        | roids | roids |       | roids | roids |     4 |
| De        |       | roids | roids | roids | roids |     4 |
| Cr        | roids | roids |       |       | roids |     3 |
| Bs        |       | roids | roids | roids | roids |     4 |
| Roided by | 2     | 4     | 4     | 5     | 4     |       |
I think the issues are obvious. Ter hilariousy OP, Zik completely worthless without kill ships. Not adding any kill ships for Zik was an interesting experiment, and I applaud the attempt, but it should be clear by now that this choice makes the race impossible to play.

With only 3 days left until signups open, I'd like to know if you'll change your stance on the lack of kill ships for Zik. If not, it'd be better to let someone else have a go, like Tia, who has stated his stats are 95% done.
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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 05:23   #31
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post

I think the issues are obvious. Ter hilariousy OP, Zik completely worthless without kill ships. Not adding any kill ships for Zik was an interesting experiment, and I applaud the attempt, but it should be clear by now that this choice makes the race impossible to play.

With only 3 days left until signups open, I'd like to know if you'll change your stance on the lack of kill ships for Zik. If not, it'd be better to let someone else have a go, like Tia, who has stated his stats are 95% done.
Zik is able to soloroid Cath and Etd with any of their attackfleets
- your stats analysizer which ignores emp and makes terran "immune" to emp is nothing to determine a good or a bad set
Aswell there is 5 races - if u want to be able to fire before your opponent you pick something else then zik - as its a support race and its meant to be that way

for terran i disagree about their OP - cause again your stats analyzer blows in reading stats...

here is what roids what:

TER FR Does not roid TER
- Phoenix fires after Centaur BUT Centaur shoots at co t2 only while not beeing very efficient
TER FR does roid CAT
- Cath emps only
TER FR does not roid XAN
- Reaper prefires Centaur
TER FR does roid ZIK
- Zik fires last
TER FR does roid ETD
- Emp and steal at lower init only

TER BS does not roid TER
- Ogre fires before Dragon
TER BS does roid Cat
- Emp only
TER BS does not roid XAN
- Wraith fires before Dragon
TER BS does roid ZIK
- Zik fires last
TER BS roids ETD
- Hydra fires before Judge

CAT FI does not roid TER
- Demon fires before Spider
CAT FI does roid CAT
- EMP only
CAT FI does not roid XAN
- Fireblade fires before Spider
CAT FI does roid ZIK
- Zik fires last
CAT FI does roid ETD
- emped only and emps kill ships

CAT DE roids TER
- emp
CAT DE roids CAT
- emp
CAT DE roids XAN
- emp
CAT DE roids ZIK
- emp
CAT DE roids ETD
- emp

CAT CR roids all
-emp

XAN FI does not roid TER
- Pegasus fires first
XAN FI does roid CAT
- emp only
XAN FI does not roid XAN
- same init firing of Fireblade and Vsharrak
XAN FI does roid ZIK
- fires first
XAN FI does roid ETD
- Vsh prefires Avenger, rest emp only

XAN DE does not roid TER
- Hydra prefires Ghost
XAN DE does roid Cath
- Fireblade prefires Spider
XAN DE does not roid XAN
- Banshee stops XAN DE (same init, t2 on banshee only)
XAN DE does roid ZIK
- init
XAN DE does not roid ETD
- Predator fires first

ZIK CO does not roid TER
- slower init
ZIK CO does roid CAT
- emp only
ZIK CO does not roid XAN
- slower init
ZIK CO does not roid ZIK
- Dagger fires before Cutlass
ZIK CO does roid ETD
- Gryphon fires after Cutlass, rest emp only

ZIK FR does not roid TER
- slower init
ZIK FR does roid CAT
- Emp only
ZIK FR does not roid XAN
- slower init
ZIK FR does not roid ZIK
- Buccaneer fires before Clipper
ZIK FR does roid ETD
- Investor fires after Thief, rest emp only

ZIK CR does not roid TER
- lower init
ZIK CR does roid CAT
- emp only
ZIK CR does not roid XAN
- slower init
ZIK CR does not roid ZIK
- Rogue fires before Pirate
ZIK CR does roid ETD
- emp only

ETD CO does roid TER
- emp
ETD CO does roid CAT
- emp and emp only
ETD CO does roid XAN
- emp
ETD CO does roid ZIK
- emp
ETD CO does roid ETD
- emp

ETD BS does roid TER
- chimera fires after judge and emp
ETD BS does roid CAT
- emp only
ETD BS does roid XAN
- Predator fires before Ghost and emp
ETD BS does roid ZIK
- better inits and emp
ETD BS does not roid ETD
- Judge fires same init as Predator

Code:
|           | Ter   | Cat   | Xan   | Zik   | Etd   | Roids |
| Ter Fr    |       | roids |       | roids | roids |     3 |
| Ter Bs    |       | roids |       | roids | roids |     3 |
| Cat Fi    |       | roids |       | roids | roids |     3 |
| Cat De    | roids | roids | roids | roids | roids |     5 |
| Cat Cr    | roids | roids | roids | roids | roids |     5 |
| Xan Fi    |       | roids |       | roids | roids |     3 |
| Xan De    |       | roids |       | roids |       |     2 |
| Zik Co    |       | roids |       |       | roids |     2 |
| Zik Fr    |       | roids |       |       | roids |     2 |
| Zik Cr    |       | roids |       |       | roids |     2 |
| Etd Co    | roids | roids | roids | roids | roids |     5 |
| Etd Bs    | roids | roids | roids | roids |       |     4 |
| Roided by | 4     | 12    | 4     | 9     | 10    |       |
this is more like it - anyhow it ignores the fact that some ships stopping a roiding fleet need bigger hulls - so wont be available all time of the round - at the same time it ignores heavy flacked fleet build - which will make e.g. ZIK FR not be roided by all of the above listed

However if there is someone needing a spot on one of the servers and this set beeing disqualified - then go for it - though i am 90% done with effs now - only a few ships missing and emp effiencies to do.

Please use some proper reasons to disqualify this set though - and not this simply bot mechanic (as its fail) - thank you
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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 07:29   #32
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

I never claimed my analyzer's output is 100% correct. If it is not appreciated, then bye.
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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 09:21   #33
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
I never claimed my analyzer's output is 100% correct. If it is not appreciated, then bye.
it is appreciated - however its results are not able to determine if a set/race works or not - as its mechanics is too easy for that

anyhow give the server to someone else - as you decided allready that a set where zik have no kill ships - wont be used
and i am not gonna give kill ships to ZIK - not in this set.

Give Tia a shot - no need to waste your or my time anymore on this
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz

"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"

Last edited by M0RPH3US; 29 Jul 2015 at 09:26.
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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 09:39   #34
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...IMk/edit#gid=0

I've been waiting to see what shapes out but since 2 people have mentioned it. If i can get access to a server my set is 95% done just small tweaks and perhaps a fresh set of eyes to look at them and make sure i didnt make a miss-type.
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Unread 29 Jul 2015, 10:51   #35
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Re: m0rph3us r63 stats proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...IMk/edit#gid=0

I've been waiting to see what shapes out but since 2 people have mentioned it. If i can get access to a server my set is 95% done just small tweaks and perhaps a fresh set of eyes to look at them and make sure i didnt make a miss-type.
yeah go for it - you got my green lights
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