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24 Sep 2006, 15:44
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#1
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Balancing Research & Constructions
As we all know the construction page is open from the start with all the possible constructions available.
Early in the game some are no use, for example why build a Light Factory untill the Reserach to build the ships is complete, or why build any amps untill you can actually scan?
So what I suggest is that these Constructions are <greyed out> and only become available when the player has the ability to make use of them. I would further explain by saying that a Light Factory will become available to build when the number of ticks left on the research is = to or less than the number of ticks to complete the research that makes use of the factory.
This would reduce the number of errors made when people undertake constructions as they would be only able to build usefull cons, in particular it would give guidance to the new player, by way of the fact that a legend could pop up when you roll the mouse pointer over the Construction that says "This construction will be availble when the Figther Research is x% completed"
Perhaps another way to make use of this idea would be to limit the number of Wave amplifiers per each wave research, so a for Surface Scans a player would max out at 10 Amps, Tech Scans 20, and so on.
I also have noted the feature in the speed round we have been playing where Distorters are not available untill News Scan research has been completed. I really like this, as it means the Disto whores will have to work the scan tree before they can get them.
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24 Sep 2006, 16:42
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#2
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
This seems like a reasonable idea. The only negative I can really think of is if you can't build a light factory until after you've researched it, it will increase the time before you can build ships because you can't have a light factory ready before you research the tech. Overall though very good suggestion imo.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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24 Sep 2006, 16:47
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#3
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Domestic Diva
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Just past a sort of reddy moon, you cant miss it!
Posts: 702
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
i likes it the negative effect (as you say monroe) is only minimal really.
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[F-Crew] HC
<rext> chef recall your fleet m8 they going to fc u
<Chef> recall my fleet?
<Chef> ive not logged in for two days
Its Only Nasty, When Its Not True.
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24 Sep 2006, 18:43
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#4
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retired
Join Date: May 2003
Location: amsterdam
Posts: 88
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
you can planet scan from the start so you should be able to build amps from the start for the rest i agree
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[]LCH[] Lets Change History.......
[ToT] forever
[esthar]
r3-r5 nub r8-r17, r19 tot/lch nub, r20-r22 CT nub, r23 inactive ToF
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24 Sep 2006, 18:48
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#5
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Hibernating
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Team Kesha
Posts: 1,621
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
I like it too, but only if the player has the ability to turn it off when they choose it. It could help new people overall, but would limit the advanced players a bit (especially in the start of the round)
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[InSomnia]
Official designated driver
[ToF] - [eXilition] - [Rock] - [Denial] - [DLR] - [eVolution] - [ODDR] - [HR] - [Ultores] - [Apprime] - [Ironborn]
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24 Sep 2006, 19:23
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#6
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
I like it too, but only if the player has the ability to turn it off when they choose it. It could help new people overall, but would limit the advanced players a bit (especially in the start of the round)
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Surely that'd defeat the point of it?
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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24 Sep 2006, 19:34
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#7
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Domestic Diva
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Just past a sort of reddy moon, you cant miss it!
Posts: 702
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Surely that'd defeat the point of it?
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yeah i dont like the idea of it being able to be disabled.
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[F-Crew] HC
<rext> chef recall your fleet m8 they going to fc u
<Chef> recall my fleet?
<Chef> ive not logged in for two days
Its Only Nasty, When Its Not True.
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24 Sep 2006, 20:08
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#8
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Of course PA Team cannot understand that an experienced player might want to order a light factory before his fi research so that both finish same time or stuff ... yeah right.
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Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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24 Sep 2006, 20:14
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#9
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Domestic Diva
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Just past a sort of reddy moon, you cant miss it!
Posts: 702
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Of course PA Team cannot understand that an experienced player might want to order a light factory before his fi research so that both finish same time or stuff ... yeah right.
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im not sure if thats the point really heartless.
maybe if this is to be implemented instead of things not being available to construct (due to lack of research) the same thing as on the production page should occur. As in...
"This construction is unavailable without blah research"
in nice red letters.
__________________
[F-Crew] HC
<rext> chef recall your fleet m8 they going to fc u
<Chef> recall my fleet?
<Chef> ive not logged in for two days
Its Only Nasty, When Its Not True.
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24 Sep 2006, 20:18
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#10
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef!
im not sure if thats the point really heartless.
maybe if this is to be implemented instead of things not being available to construct (due to lack of research) the same thing as on the production page should occur. As in...
"This construction is unavailable without blah research"
in nice red letters.
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Well, in that case you touch game design. Not just UI design. And if you finally touch game design do a ****ing properly revamp of it so us players can get an enjoyable game with several different paths to victory.
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Ią! Ią! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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24 Sep 2006, 20:20
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#11
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
I said in my post that the construction would be available when the Research for it would finish to allow its use.
In other words there are 6 Ticks untill completion of the research and you are able to complete a construction in that same time, so therefore you should be able to start it so it completes at the same time it becomes of use.
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24 Sep 2006, 23:02
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#12
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Bored
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: A Persistant Universe
Posts: 1,583
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Its hardly that big a deal if you have a construction early. Presumably anyone whos worried about losing some construction ticks knows how constructions work. There really isnt a need for this imo.
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Germania
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Mercury & Solace
Conspiracy Theory, Wrath, 1up, ICD, Eclipse
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24 Sep 2006, 23:17
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#13
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-W
Its hardly that big a deal if you have a construction early. Presumably anyone whos worried about losing some construction ticks knows how constructions work. There really isnt a need for this imo.
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There is for a new player, who may think building a light factory gives him ships etc...
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24 Sep 2006, 23:25
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#14
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Hibernating
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Team Kesha
Posts: 1,621
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
Surely that'd defeat the point of it?
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I thought the point of it was to help out new people who at the start usually have no idea what constructions do and when to build them etc etc.
On the other hand, the people that have played this game for years know what to do and when to construct them, they might find a system like that unhandy.
If this is going to be put into the game then i (and alot of other people i'm sure of that) would like an ability to turn it off.
Just put the option to turn it of into preferences, put it on standard and have a warning to discourage new players + occasional players from turning it off.
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[InSomnia]
Official designated driver
[ToF] - [eXilition] - [Rock] - [Denial] - [DLR] - [eVolution] - [ODDR] - [HR] - [Ultores] - [Apprime] - [Ironborn]
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25 Sep 2006, 00:47
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#15
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
I thought the point of it was to help out new people who at the start usually have no idea what constructions do and when to build them etc etc.
On the other hand, the people that have played this game for years know what to do and when to construct them, they might find a system like that unhandy.
If this is going to be put into the game then i (and alot of other people i'm sure of that) would like an ability to turn it off.
Just put the option to turn it of into preferences, put it on standard and have a warning to discourage new players + occasional players from turning it off.
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I don't think it would make any sense to be able to turn it off. Either have it in the game or not, but no halfway. The one other thought here is concurent construction/research. So you could start building a light factory once you started researching the right tech, this would allow you to complete it on time. If you canceled the research then you would no longer be able to build the factory which would be canceled and the appropriate % (based on % complete) of resources would be returned.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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25 Sep 2006, 01:02
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#16
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Darling
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 10
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Screwing up is all part of the game, maybe the manual needs clarifying to help new players, if peeps want to be distort whores surely that is their choice.
We don't need PA team spoon feeding us all, give us some credit
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25 Sep 2006, 07:37
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#17
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Inactive peon
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,050
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
It would actually make some sense of to build constructions in general one needed to have done some research. It would also improve the learning curve for the game.
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25 Sep 2006, 13:21
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#18
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Bline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Texas, US
Posts: 233
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe
I don't think it would make any sense to be able to turn it off. Either have it in the game or not, but no halfway. The one other thought here is concurent construction/research. So you could start building a light factory once you started researching the right tech, this would allow you to complete it on time. If you canceled the research then you would no longer be able to build the factory which would be canceled and the appropriate % (based on % complete) of resources would be returned.
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Cant we build like that now? Or am i missing something.
With the exception of distorters
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25 Sep 2006, 14:17
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#19
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Planetarion Forum Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,289
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Cant we build like that now? Or am i missing something.
With the exception of distorters
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It is similar to what we can do now but not exactly like it. The difference is you can't build a factory under the new scheme until you start the approriate research, at the moment you can build any factory at any time.
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Romans 10:9-10
#strategy
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25 Sep 2006, 15:22
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#20
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
It would actually make some sense of to build constructions in general one needed to have done some research. It would also improve the learning curve for the game.
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Thanks for making this explicit, I assumed that my suggestion made this point implicitly.
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26 Sep 2006, 05:47
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#21
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Bored
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: A Persistant Universe
Posts: 1,583
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
There is for a new player, who may think building a light factory gives him ships etc...
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Having a light factory early is not a significant enough mistake to try to hard-code out of the game. Who really cares if you have your light factory early? (other than hardcore players on a tick plan)
In fact ive built my light factory early in previous rounds because I wasnt on a tick plan and I just wanted to make sure I had it when the research finished. This is a total non-issue.
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Conspiracy Theory, Wrath, 1up, ICD, Eclipse
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26 Sep 2006, 14:43
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#22
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Early in the game some are no use, for example why build a Light Factory untill the Reserach to build the ships is complete, or why build any amps untill you can actually scan?
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Not everyone's active 24/7 though, or might go away for a day. Their Light Factory would finish early in game terms but it would suit them fine since they'd return to both completed.
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28 Sep 2006, 07:18
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#23
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: Balancing Research & Constructions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
There is for a new player, who may think building a light factory gives him ships etc...
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iirc, the description under the Light (or other Factories) says in bright red that you need the appropriate ship research in order for it to work, and as such this isnt really a problem, assuming the new player can read english.
I have to say that i'm not a fan of the proposal. In a way, it help the more active players who will be online when the eg Fighter research is 4 ticks through so you can start a Light factory - just because you do the factory first then the research doesnt mean it isnt an optimal course of action on the behalf of the player; as furbeh mentioned the player might be away during the research time, but still wants to build ships once the research is complete, rather than having to *then* start the construction. Further, depending on activity, this could increase the amount of time it takes to get ships by a whole day (especially without research/construction queing), and thus making the player more vulnerable or making them have to jump through more hoops in order to do something so simple.
And then there are issues with changing research/construction times as engineering and/or res labs or whatever alter the various time relationships - excess coding time that i'd much rather have in the combat engine tbh. /me waves @ Kloopy
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