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Unread 3 Aug 2017, 20:34   #1
M0RPH3US
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game within the game

since the implementation of bot planets seems not to be enforced i was thinking about what to do to add more asteroids to the universe.

and here is the glorious idea:

add a game within the game
what?
yes, a round with its own goals/winners, starting at a later stage of the round - all happening in the active universe

sounds good? but how the f**k ?
lets say at tick 500ish the outer rim of the universe (c100) gets explored and planets are formed of escapists, refugees and new civiizations exploring the stars
the signups start from tick450ish onwards, where you can choose between universe and outer rim
-choose outer rim -then you get placed in c100 -until the first tick (at tick 500) happens
12 ticks later c100 gets shuffled and big outer rim galaxies get formed (15ish planets?)
all planets signing up that way are upgraded (free) and have their own rankings - with winning galaxy, winning planet
the education and infrastructure isnt the greatest in the outer rim, so there are no alliances, just your own galaxy as a source for defence
you can attack from the outer rim into the old universe and also get attacked, with the downside of a tick additional travelspeed (both directions).
obviously you can't play in the normal universe and also in the outer rim, but you can of course reset from the normal universe into the outer rim, why ever you would want to do that
the outer rim galaxies, are able to ally, nap or wage war with each other (like alliances in the old universe) - so beware, as they might not be the easy targets you assume them to be.
Ofc there should be free credits for the winning planet and stuff - just like in the old universe - but the round is shorter, as it end's also when the old universe does.

that way we get 2 entry points into a fun? round within 7 weeks - eventually gain some planets, to be farmed by the bottom (but yet with a bigger chance to survive) - also it would be a nice chance for new ppl to explore the game as a free acount, or for others that will miss the first part of the round due to real live etc...

Ofc you can late start now allready and watch yourself beeing farmed - but you will most likely not be able to win anything, when 500 ticks have passed - but in the outer rim you can

ok so much for now (no im not stoned)

enjoy reading
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Unread 3 Aug 2017, 21:03   #2
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Re: game within the game

worth looking into
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Unread 3 Aug 2017, 21:29   #3
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Re: game within the game

Interesting concept, could work well with some tweaks. It does wave a banner of normalized acceptance in front of bot planets though, which may not be behavior we want to encourage.
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Unread 3 Aug 2017, 21:47   #4
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Re: game within the game

implementation last round was to reduce the number of asteroids in the uni, more would be nice
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Unread 3 Aug 2017, 23:41   #5
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Re: game within the game

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
implementation last round was to reduce the number of asteroids in the uni, more would be nice
The forumla change have been done wrong twice in my opinion.

1500 + 125*existing roids + 1.04^existing roids

This would be so much better, and i'm not very good in math and spent the whole 5 min making it

*if you wanted to be really smart about it you could ad in a variable about tick so the further you get into the round the higher amount of roids in the start you could init. (like affordable to 700 roids with a 3-4 day payback late round)
**or link it to uni avg roids to lvl the playingfield for late starters

Last edited by Sandvold; 3 Aug 2017 at 23:49.
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 01:02   #6
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Re: game within the game

Now you are speaking my language!
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 08:22   #7
M0RPH3US
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Re: game within the game

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Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
Interesting concept, could work well with some tweaks. It does wave a banner of normalized acceptance in front of bot planets though, which may not be behavior we want to encourage.
The pa-bot Planets (not cardi's) would basically offer some targets, for those not able to compete.
The only reason why i would welcome them btw.
On the other Hand they would random up the game to much, as one guy gets retalled and another hitting them might be not. ADD a lousy AI to that and you have the downsides.
With allowing - late Starters, ppl that Reset, Old Veterans that Check the game midround, New folks that accidently stumble over the Portal - to compete for something i think we would not just higher the amount of available roids in the universe, but also the amount of still actively playing Planets at tick 1000.

I bet a lot of ppl Check out pa midround, but dont signup as the game is allready running, and Most prolly dont Check again.
Now With a 2nd starting point, we could ADD those ppl to the playerbase.

That beeing said i welcome higher init Costs, as it makes the game more attacking based
If the Formula is perfect yet, i wouldnt want to Comment though
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 09:57   #8
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Re: game within the game

I like the idea, mostly because people who want to quit after a bad start, may find here a reason to keep playing.
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 12:54   #9
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Re: game within the game

Anything that increases roids would be good.
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 13:25   #10
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Re: game within the game

What is so good about increasing the number of roids in the universe?

(If the answer is something along the lines of "bigger numbers are more fun", I'll laugh at you.)
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 13:34   #11
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Re: game within the game

Bigger numbers are more fun.


(It makes attacking worthwhile, the less roids = the less losses you can take and the less xp you can gain, so any defence on smaller roid planets = quicker pull)
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 13:55   #12
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Re: game within the game

I like the whole idea m0rph3us have you put it forward to any of the PA team?
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 15:34   #13
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Re: game within the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adapt View Post
I like the whole idea m0rph3us have you put it forward to any of the PA team?
No not at all
Yet
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 17:11   #14
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Re: game within the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
(It makes attacking worthwhile, the less roids = the less losses you can take and the less xp you can gain, so any defence on smaller roid planets = quicker pull)
Losses (potential and actual) are proportional to the number of roids that are around: with fewer roids everyone has less income and thus smaller fleets, resulting in smaller battles and lower losses (and smaller caps). There is a small amount of nuance in core mining and refineries (which takes up a greater proportion of your income the fewer roids you have), but that's in the margins.

Doubling the number of roids in the universe simply results in a doubling of fleet sizes, a doubling of losses and a doubling in cap rates; in the end it changes little, beyond making all the numbers bigger.
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 20:42   #15
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Re: game within the game

In theory you are right.

Practically it doesn't work like that.

If each planet gets 1 def fleet, with large roids attackers can often still land. With low roids, any loss at all make lands impossible. It is xp that can make the difference.
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Unread 5 Aug 2017, 02:19   #16
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Re: game within the game

it's not only about the amount of roids in universe, but also about the amount of actively playing planets/targets
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Unread 5 Aug 2017, 11:24   #17
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Re: game within the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
In theory you are right.

Practically it doesn't work like that.

If each planet gets 1 def fleet, with large roids attackers can often still land. With low roids, any loss at all make lands impossible. It is xp that can make the difference.
You're comparing 'big planet' to 'small planet' within a given round. Increasing the number of roids in the universe is about changing the definition of a 'big planet' and a 'small planet'. If everyone gets twice as many roids, then what we considered a lot of roids before is no longer a lot of roids.

(Everything else you said is also wrong: XP sucks, !roidcost is king)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
it's not only about the amount of roids in universe, but also about the amount of actively playing planets/targets
Here's why I don't like your idea:
  • The player base is stable at best and you said you can't have an old and a new universe planet at the same time. 95% of the outer rim planets will just be old players who crashed and reset.
  • Even if it does attract more players, it reduces real-world income because you want to upgrade everyone in the outer rim for free and hand out more prizes
  • Outer rim planets start 500 ticks late, and don't benefit from ingal defense from old universe planets like late signers did
  • Outer rim planets can't roid old universe planets because their travel time and value are shit
  • Old universe planets can roid outer rim planets because they have few potential defenders (no tags) and the ones that do exist have shit value
  • The round in the outer rim is shorter, so it'll be host to even fewer wars than the old universe, and the value of outer rim planets will be too low to allow them to have much impact on old universe wars
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 5 Aug 2017 at 11:47.
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Unread 5 Aug 2017, 14:53   #18
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Re: game within the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
since the implementation of bot planets seems not to be enforced i was thinking about what to do to add more asteroids to the universe.

and here is the glorious idea:

add a game within the game
what?
yes, a round with its own goals/winners, starting at a later stage of the round - all happening in the active universe

sounds good? but how the f**k ?
lets say at tick 500ish the outer rim of the universe (c100) gets explored and planets are formed of escapists, refugees and new civiizations exploring the stars
the signups start from tick450ish onwards, where you can choose between universe and outer rim
-choose outer rim -then you get placed in c100 -until the first tick (at tick 500) happens
12 ticks later c100 gets shuffled and big outer rim galaxies get formed (15ish planets?)
all planets signing up that way are upgraded (free) and have their own rankings - with winning galaxy, winning planet
the education and infrastructure isnt the greatest in the outer rim, so there are no alliances, just your own galaxy as a source for defence
you can attack from the outer rim into the old universe and also get attacked, with the downside of a tick additional travelspeed (both directions).
obviously you can't play in the normal universe and also in the outer rim, but you can of course reset from the normal universe into the outer rim, why ever you would want to do that
the outer rim galaxies, are able to ally, nap or wage war with each other (like alliances in the old universe) - so beware, as they might not be the easy targets you assume them to be.
Ofc there should be free credits for the winning planet and stuff - just like in the old universe - but the round is shorter, as it end's also when the old universe does.

that way we get 2 entry points into a fun? round within 7 weeks - eventually gain some planets, to be farmed by the bottom (but yet with a bigger chance to survive) - also it would be a nice chance for new ppl to explore the game as a free acount, or for others that will miss the first part of the round due to real live etc...

Ofc you can late start now allready and watch yourself beeing farmed - but you will most likely not be able to win anything, when 500 ticks have passed - but in the outer rim you can

ok so much for now (no im not stoned)

enjoy reading

So you want to introduce crappy havoc without the resources at tick 500 and bleed it into the real round?

Sounds crap tbh, ridiculously chaotic and I can see almost zero uptakers on this idea.


How about this as a counter idea.

Scrap Havoc, extend round to 9 weeks, decrease cost of inting to between old and new levels, remove ships from score formulae, make tags 55/60 counting.

More time to war, more time recover, more roids in the universe, less threat to crashing, more interaction guaranteed.
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Unread 5 Aug 2017, 19:28   #19
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Re: game within the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
So you want to introduce crappy havoc without the resources at tick 500 and bleed it into the real round?

Sounds crap tbh, ridiculously chaotic and I can see almost zero uptakers on this idea.


How about this as a counter idea.

Scrap Havoc, extend round to 9 weeks, decrease cost of inting to between old and new levels, remove ships from score formulae, make tags 55/60 counting.

More time to war, more time recover, more roids in the universe, less threat to crashing, more interaction guaranteed.
So total gained value the round, but the ships not counting itself?

Sounds like something to build from.
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