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11 Nov 2002, 14:35
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Leeds, but looking for a way to escape
Posts: 128
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Smokers - A strain on the NHS?
I have heard the following argument many times in the past :
"Tobacco smokers place a disproportionate strain on health services".
So I decided to do a little research into this claim. According to government statistics 27% (12.9 Million) of the population smokes *. Lets assume that on average these people smoke 10 cigarettes a day and pay 80% tax on a £4.50 packet of 20 **.
The math :
12.9 Million (smoking population) * £2.25 (average cost of 10 cigarettes) = £29,025,000 total spent on cigarettes per day
80% of £29025000 = £23,220,000 tax per day
£23,220,000 (tax) * 365 (days in the year) = £8,475,300,000 total smokers tax per year.
I would hazard a guess that the small amount of money that is 8.4 billion more than covers the "extra strain". Bearing in mind these 12.9 million people are also paying the same taxes that non-smokers pay.
Just for the record this is NOT a "smoking is bad, mmkay" thread, I think we all realise this.
References:
* http://www.parliament.the-stationery...t/20612w24.htm
** These figures are not referenced (if anybody has the time to find the actual figures pls feel free), they are based on personal experience as an ex-smoker and comparing prices of 20 cigarettes in this country versus other countries with much lower smoking taxes (e.g. Spain)) - I have a feeling that the estimate of 10 a day is lower than reality, but for arguments sake I opted for a conservative 'guess-timate'
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11 Nov 2002, 14:38
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#2
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Guest
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11 Nov 2002, 14:38
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#3
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Old People are the biggest strain on the health service. Let's stop old people from using it.
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11 Nov 2002, 14:42
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#4
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Gone
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 14,656
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Actually, just shoot them all and get it over with. Then none of us will have to put up with their constant moaning.
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11 Nov 2002, 14:42
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Leeds, but looking for a way to escape
Posts: 128
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Oddily enough it was that very same article that got me thinking about this, more precisely it was the comment by 'J Halstead, UK'
Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Actually, just shoot them all and get it over with. Then none of us will have to put up with their constant moaning.
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Who? old people? smokers? non-smokers?
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11 Nov 2002, 14:51
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#6
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Dirte
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,573
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Hehe.
I quit smoking today.
Or, im trying to get rid off them.
Really.
Its quite hard.
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"Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in this; that he makes waffles not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely conceives it, wants it, and loves it."
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11 Nov 2002, 14:54
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#7
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snurx
Hehe.
I quit smoking today.
Or, im trying to get rid off them.
Really.
Its quite hard.
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YES!
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11 Nov 2002, 14:57
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#8
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7 Dimensional Puddleduck
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Not where I want to be :(
Posts: 1,556
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And obesity.
Obesity related diseases put a significant stain on healthcare budget.
fs, why don't people take better care of themselves?
and MM, i know that was sarcasm, but if these sucidal twatburgers stopped being so dumb, there'd be plenty of money.
That said why should an old person be treated equally?
The youngsters should be prioritised.
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<CmdrCyrax> I'm sure GDers are bastions of the civilized world. 
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11 Nov 2002, 15:05
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Leeds, but looking for a way to escape
Posts: 128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
And obesity.
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Obese people dont pay an extra 8.4 billion in taxes to cover the "extra burden" they create - so IMHO they are much worse than smokers
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11 Nov 2002, 16:02
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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They want you to feel guilty so that you wont object to subsidising a disproportionately large part of the NHS for them.
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11 Nov 2002, 16:04
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by BuddhistPunk
Obese people dont pay an extra 8.4 billion in taxes to cover the "extra burden" they create - so IMHO they are much worse than smokers
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Comedy 17.5% option.
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11 Nov 2002, 16:22
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#12
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Käptn Karacho
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,360
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what u must not forget is that the non-smoker spend the money they saved by non-smoking on other things. of course the tax isn't 80% but the "extra"-tax created by the smokers is lower.
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at0mic.c0w - #strategy
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11 Nov 2002, 16:39
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Leeds, but looking for a way to escape
Posts: 128
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Quote:
Originally posted by at0mic.c0w
what u must not forget is that the non-smoker spend the money they saved by non-smoking on other things. of course the tax isn't 80% but the "extra"-tax created by the smokers is lower.
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Thats a fair point.
But even if you deduct 17.5% VAT from the 8.4 billion its still a rather large amount of money.
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11 Nov 2002, 21:06
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#14
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Amount raised through tobacco taxes: 7.6 billion (ex. VAT).
Amount we cost the NHS: 1.7 billion.
Profit for the government and everyone else: 5.9 billion.
Now fk off and let me smoke in peace 
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ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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11 Nov 2002, 21:12
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#15
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Guest
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There was a Czech report (or from some place like that) that said that smokers were good for the Government.
"Why?" i hear you cry.
Because they die younger saving the government money in the long run.
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11 Nov 2002, 21:16
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#16
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Amount raised through tobacco taxes: 7.6 billion (ex. VAT).
Amount we cost the NHS: 1.7 billion.
Profit for the government and everyone else: 5.9 billion.
Now fk off and let me smoke in peace
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Never! 
They're going to harass you mercilessly and make you pay for the privilege.
This used to be called `persecution' back before Political Correctness. 
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The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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11 Nov 2002, 21:25
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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You lost the battle the day you let them get away with calling it a "sin tax".
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11 Nov 2002, 21:28
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#18
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Destroyer of Worlds
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 552
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People are more than welcome to smoke PROVIDED they don't a) do it near* me b) take valuable donated organs to replace the ones they so casually turned to a pile of blackened goo.
*within a 5 mile radius of
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“In spite of the roaring of the young lions at the Union, and the screaming of the rabbits in the home of the vivisect, in spite of Keble College, and the tramways, and the sporting prints, Oxford still remains the most beautiful thing in England, and nowhere else are life and art so exquisitely blended, so perfectly made one.”
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11 Nov 2002, 21:33
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#19
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Vermin Supreme
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
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I actually agree with Dace. If people die ~60, then they aren't chewing on social security for the next 50 years. GO BIG TOBACCO!
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Comedy 17.5% option.
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At first I thought you were referring to Belgy.
It seems that Belgy and Dace's conspiracy has forever ruined a perfectly good percentage in my head.
As an American, I see it as my constitutional duty to sue you both.
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11 Nov 2002, 21:33
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#20
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Snake of the Sand
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 1,500
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Studies have shown that life is the #1 cause of health problems. This is further proven by the fact that dead people are almost always LEAVING hospitals, and when they do come, their stay is almost always short. They also don't complain about the food or moan about wanting pain medication all the time.
Complete nuclear annihilation should solve any problems your NHS may have.
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I poke badgers with spoons.
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11 Nov 2002, 21:40
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by acropolis
At first I thought you were referring to Belgy.
It seems that Belgy and Dace's conspiracy has forever ruined a perfectly good percentage in my head.
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I dont understand :(
17.5% = sales tax in britain
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11 Nov 2002, 21:58
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Leeds, but looking for a way to escape
Posts: 128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Amount raised through tobacco taxes: 7.6 billion (ex. VAT).
Amount we cost the NHS: 1.7 billion.
Profit for the government and everyone else: 5.9 billion.
Now fk off and let me smoke in peace
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Gayle have you got a source for that??
BTW I am not trying to be picky, I would just like to read the full article/paper or whatever it was on.
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11 Nov 2002, 22:00
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#23
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Vermin Supreme
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
I dont understand 
17.5% = sales tax in britain
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Yes but this, and as I was unaware of the sales tax % in Britain your post of "comedy 17.5% option" immediately directed my brain toward a very different 17.5%.
My mind is ruined.
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11 Nov 2002, 22:02
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#24
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Quote:
Originally posted by BuddhistPunk
Gayle have you got a source for that??
BTW I am not trying to be picky, I would just like to read the full article/paper or whatever it was on.
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Various sources but this is the prime one.
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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11 Nov 2002, 22:06
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#25
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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They perhaps don't cost money, but they do take our nurses.
Not that I care.
People can smoke all they want for all I care. They should just know that (a) it kills them. (b) it costs far too much. (c) it smells disgusting. I find it amusing that these people actually enjoy smoking (several finding it cool), regardless of the stench they give off.
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11 Nov 2002, 22:14
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Various sources but this is the prime one.
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Thats so stupid I want to cry.
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11 Nov 2002, 22:18
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#27
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Destroyer of Worlds
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 552
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nod stop ignoring me
__________________
“In spite of the roaring of the young lions at the Union, and the screaming of the rabbits in the home of the vivisect, in spite of Keble College, and the tramways, and the sporting prints, Oxford still remains the most beautiful thing in England, and nowhere else are life and art so exquisitely blended, so perfectly made one.”
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11 Nov 2002, 22:18
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#28
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Thats so stupid I want to cry.
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Agreed. ASH are a good source of figures though if you can ignore the surrounding twaddle.
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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11 Nov 2002, 22:19
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk
Agreed. ASH are a good source of figures though if you can ignore the surrounding twaddle.
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I was meaning the 2p thing.
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11 Nov 2002, 23:30
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#30
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
I dont understand
17.5% = sales tax in britain
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Sales tax on food?
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11 Nov 2002, 23:54
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: England
Posts: 752
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Sales tax on food?
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Luxuraries, which includes most food, childrens clothes, various other things most people would consider essential, and Real luxuraries, such as computer games, movies etc
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<Bobzy> It's Jammers rockstargame kid
<Bobzy> Jammers is > the rest of GD/PA at it though.
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11 Nov 2002, 23:57
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Leeds, but looking for a way to escape
Posts: 128
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jammers
Luxuraries, which includes most food, childrens clothes, various other things most people would consider essential, and Real luxuraries, such as computer games, movies etc
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Did you know the british governments consider Tampax and Sanitary towels to be a luxury and therefore charge tax on it
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12 Nov 2002, 00:06
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: England
Posts: 752
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Quote:
Originally posted by BuddhistPunk
Did you know the british governments consider Tampax and Sanitary towels to be a luxury and therefore charge tax on it
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I read something about it once in one of my sisters magazines (Shout, i think it was).
If men needed tampax, there probably would be no tax on it.
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<Bobzy> It's Jammers rockstargame kid
<Bobzy> Jammers is > the rest of GD/PA at it though.
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12 Nov 2002, 00:15
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#34
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Freedom First
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Holding the line...
Posts: 243
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Quote:
Originally posted by BuddhistPunk
Obese people dont pay an extra 8.4 billion in taxes to cover the "extra burden" they create - so IMHO they are much worse than smokers
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not just the fat ppl, anyone who eats food deemed to be 'unhealthy'
other behaviors with health risks should also be banned\regulater\taxed
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12 Nov 2002, 00:18
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,476
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Sales tax on food?
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Fat people generally dont live on a diet of healthy food!
Non 'essential' foods = sales tax.
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12 Nov 2002, 00:21
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#36
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Freedom First
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Holding the line...
Posts: 243
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Fat people generally dont live on a diet of healthy food!
Non 'essential' foods = sales tax.
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Don't you think that the government should calculate a healthy amount of food (and a healthy composition). Any food different or in excess of your recommended alotment would be heavily taxed. Of course food would only be purchasable with a government card to ensure compliance.
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12 Nov 2002, 00:24
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#37
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Twisted
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Down with the sickness
Posts: 2,484
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Quote:
Originally posted by WarFalcon
Don't you think that the government should calculate a healthy amount of food (and a healthy composition). Any food different or in excess of your recommended alotment would be heavily taxed. Of course food would only be purchasable with a government card to ensure compliance.
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We'd all be screwed over at Christmas, as if we didn't have to spend enough money on it as it is.
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Me
In my sleep I grind my teeth.
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12 Nov 2002, 00:24
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#38
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Bitch
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 3,848
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Quote:
Originally posted by WarFalcon
Don't you think that the government should calculate a healthy amount of food (and a healthy composition). Any food different or in excess of your recommended alotment would be heavily taxed. Of course food would only be purchasable with a government card to ensure compliance.
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Stop trolling :P
__________________
ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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