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Unread 13 Apr 2009, 22:19   #1
Light
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First Tick Setup

This is outdated. Please see:
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=198236 for the updated round start.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

Last edited by Light; 24 Oct 2009 at 21:23.
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Unread 13 Apr 2009, 22:24   #2
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Re: First Tick Setup

You never traded resources, so I think you can get 1 or 2 more that way.

And don't start an alliance before initing, cause you get roids for it, therefore making initiations after that more expensive.
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Unread 13 Apr 2009, 22:28   #3
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Re: First Tick Setup

make sure u initaite as many roids as u can with resources before u get the free ones
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Unread 13 Apr 2009, 22:47   #4
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
You never traded resources, so I think you can get 1 or 2 more that way.

And don't start an alliance before initing, cause you get roids for it, therefore making initiations after that more expensive.
Yeah edit the resources and including changing race to ETD.

You have to, the 'apply for an alliance' trick doesnt work anymore.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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Unread 14 Apr 2009, 09:59   #5
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Guide on how to get to 53 roids, please post this into your galaxy forum so everyone see's it.
Done! This is pretty useful, thanks.

You only need to trade 2 * 369 resources by the way, not 370. This should give you 53 roids and 1862 in spare resources of one type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Updated: screens added.. as people couldnt find where things was.
I think the attempt to add screens failed.
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Unread 14 Apr 2009, 10:54   #6
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Done! This is pretty useful, thanks.

You only need to trade 2 * 369 resources by the way, not 370. This should give you 53 roids and 1862 in spare resources of one type.
Ty.

Yeah, Dec said that as well last night just didnt want to change it without confirming it Updated.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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Unread 14 Apr 2009, 19:41   #7
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Re: First Tick Setup

Thanks Light!
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Unread 15 Apr 2009, 00:06   #8
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Re: First Tick Setup

I ll use this when I sign up next friday! <3
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Unread 15 Apr 2009, 00:30   #9
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Re: First Tick Setup

This is a good guide - cheers Light.

I started last round very very well (first 150 ticks or so) because I was more active for round start than I had been previously. I made the mistake of cashing in my credit bonuses straight away, to get max roids pre-ticks, so by the time protection ended I was still a good bit behind the folk in front, despite my activity being ridiculously high (for me).

Wont be making the same mistake this round!
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 09:41   #10
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Re: First Tick Setup

Ive just reached 55 roids following this.

I followed this exactly. Then when finished I took my upgrade bonus in the form of 3 roids each. Then I traded enough Eonium with Metal an Crystal to allow me to cap 4 Metal, 4 Crystal & 3 Eonium roids (was just short of capping 4 4 & 3 before the trade). Taking my total to 55.
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 09:44   #11
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Re: First Tick Setup

Haveing read Kenny's post, that was probably a mistake. Sod it, not resetting again
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 13:53   #12
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by bell View Post
Ive just reached 55 roids following this.

I followed this exactly. Then when finished I took my upgrade bonus in the form of 3 roids each. Then I traded enough Eonium with Metal an Crystal to allow me to cap 4 Metal, 4 Crystal & 3 Eonium roids (was just short of capping 4 4 & 3 before the trade). Taking my total to 55.
If you follow my guide, then after take the (3 of each roid) upgrade bonus.. you should be on 62 roids
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 14:20   #13
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Re: First Tick Setup

Don't use your upgrade at tick 0 though
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 14:41   #14
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Re: First Tick Setup

Thank you Light!
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 14:58   #15
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Re: First Tick Setup

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Originally Posted by bell View Post
Haveing read Kenny's post, that was probably a mistake. Sod it, not resetting again
reset!! reset!! reset!!

5 minutes work for 7 weeks of benefits
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Unread 16 Apr 2009, 23:50   #16
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Re: First Tick Setup

And when should we use the bonus?
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 00:24   #17
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Re: First Tick Setup

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Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
And when should we use the bonus?
As close to protection end (tick 72) as possible, when you can still spend the resources and have ships out of production in time to attack.

(or, if you want to "rush" Cr/Bs, it's also an option to keep your bonus until it would complete Hulls 3)

Of course the exact tick depends on a lot of things.
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Unread 17 Apr 2009, 01:48   #18
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Re: First Tick Setup

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Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
And when should we use the bonus?
There are multiple ways to spend your bonus and there isnt one universal time to spend it.

Some people rush to BS/CR.. they spend the bonus when the res bonus = completed Hulls-3 (i.e. half way through Hulls-3 research when the research bonus gives enough points to complete it.. then spend the resource bonus on the CR/BS ships..) From memory, i think its just before Tick 72.. allowing you to get your CR/BS ships out for tick 80ish (i.e. 4am first night out of protection for your first attack). This tactic is a bit risky, as you need to cap in order to regain the resources you lost from not researching Ace.

Some people spend the bonus at tick 0 but i dont think anyone ever recommends doing this.

Some people spend the bonus at tick 65-72 to buy Fi/Co/FR/DE ships for the first night attack.

While other people simply keep the bonus until they are attacked, allowing them to get a resource bonus to build the required ships to self cover there attack.


So just plan what you're aiming to do and use your bonus to achieve that.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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Unread 22 Apr 2009, 20:39   #19
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Re: First Tick Setup

Danke Light.
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Unread 23 Apr 2009, 00:38   #20
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Re: First Tick Setup

i'd like to know how its possible to get to having cr/bs by tick 80 without either being cath(due to faster research speeds) or using democracy government for the start. But democracy government isnt the best way to overall so rushing bs/cr and then not gaining the bonuses that work well later on like in fuedilism seems a waste but maybe im wrong.
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Unread 23 Apr 2009, 01:22   #21
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Re: First Tick Setup

You cant, without using the upgrade bonus.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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Unread 23 Apr 2009, 01:53   #22
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Re: First Tick Setup

Cath can have CR by PT80 without needing their bonus even by the by.

As Xan you need to be demo+use bonus to have a shot at having CR for PT80, but even then it's still pushing it.

The REAL trick is to get Xan CR for PT80 whilst distwhoring!

p.s. thanks appoc! <3
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Unread 23 Apr 2009, 02:59   #23
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Cath can have CR by PT80 without needing their bonus even by the by.
Yeah sorry, calced the research points wrong.

Cath + 50% Population in research + Demo goverment =
HCT-1, HCT-2, Fi-Hulls, FR-Hulls, CR-Hulls
That method, CR-Hulls will finish at tick 72 exactly but your missing Infra upgrade. Plus how long does it take to build CR? Can you get it out intime to attack the first night?



Rushing to BS/CR is always risky, weither your using your bonus, using Demo goverment or just abusing your race abilities.. As to get to BS/CR, you need to miss out on other things, such as ETA, ACE, Infra.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.

Last edited by Light; 23 Apr 2009 at 03:05.
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Unread 23 Apr 2009, 05:35   #24
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Yeah sorry, calced the research points wrong.

Rushing to BS/CR is always risky, weither your using your bonus, using Demo goverment or just abusing your race abilities.. As to get to BS/CR, you need to miss out on other things, such as ETA, ACE, Infra.
From the best of my recollection it takes 10 ticks for a demo cath with 35% on population to build a construction. Assuming the first 2 buildings are research centers, to maintain the 20% research bonus over the first 10 structures, you can build 5 heavy factories by PT72 with relative ease.

As for how many ships?

Formula:

PU Output = int(((4000 * # factories)^0.98) * (1 + (pop_bonus + gov_bonus + race_bonus) / 100))

where int = "the whole number of" and ^0.98 = to the power of 0.98

= int (((4000 * 5)^0.98) * (1 + (60 + -10 + 0) / 100))
= int ((20000^0.98) * (1 + 0.5))
= int (16406.25 * 1.5) = 24609

so 24609 PU output per tick... at CR being ready by PT72 (your estimation) being ready for PT80, that's 8 ticks of 24609 = 196872 PUs.

Hell, you could have a 6m resource order knocked out by PT 78.

PU = (total_resources_spent^1/2)*LN(total_resources_spent^2) where LN is the "natural log".

PU = (6000000^1/2)*LN(6000000^2)
PU = (2449.49)*LN(36000000000000)
PU = (2449.49)*31.21
PU = 76449

Production time = (Required Production Units + (10000*# factories))/Output
Production time = (76449 + (10000*5))/24609
Production time = (76449 + 50000)/24609
Production time = 126449/24609
Production time = 5.13... rounded to 6 ticks as the order isn't completed in UNDER 5.

Just to put that in to perspective, that's 60k value worth of CR before most people even have ships.

I was working my way through these formulas R28 when I did a similar thing as ETD and had BS available first night. I went straight to #1 and had twice the score of #3 (damo8 in #2 was using my tickplan too <3).

The difference being while I maxcapped on 3 targets first night back then, in order to do it I had to stay on 100 roids and just do the Hulls research. So even after roiding 3 targets, I still only had around 300 roids. Doing it with Cath now and you could reasonably assure yourself of 500 roids first night, though there wont be as much XP in it as there was for me.

Also by the time you actually came to launch your CR you could be building your 1st medium factory and by the time you landed and stole your roids you could be building your 2nd medium factory. If you THEN used your bonus and got a resource boost, you could also go a long way towards building enough DE to protect your roids from fi/co fleets.

Just saying, etc...
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Unread 23 Apr 2009, 15:04   #25
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Re: First Tick Setup

someone sticky this thread pls

thx light
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Unread 24 Apr 2009, 05:13   #26
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Re: First Tick Setup

nvm, figured it out
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Unread 24 Apr 2009, 08:36   #27
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Re: First Tick Setup

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
someone sticky this thread pls

thx light
Linked to from the manual


btw Light: the formula for asteroid initiation that you require for a more general spreadsheet can be boiled down to:

cost to initiate asteroids = n*(925+150*m+75*n)
where n = number of asteroids to initiate and m= current number of asteroids


I derived it by working out that the cost of all new asteroids are basically (1000+150m) + (something).
something =
0
+
150
+
150 + 150
+
150 + 150 + 150
+
....
=
150* (
0
+
1
+
2
+
3
+
....)
=
150* ( 1/2* (n)(n-1) )
where 1/2 * n * (n-1) is the sum of 0 + 1 + 2 + ... + n-2 + n-1

Then I just simplified it
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Unread 24 Apr 2009, 11:41   #28
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Re: First Tick Setup

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
Linked to from the manual


btw Light: the formula for asteroid initiation that you require for a more general spreadsheet can be boiled down to:

cost to initiate asteroids = n*(925+150*m+75*n)
where n = number of asteroids to initiate and m= current number of asteroids


I derived it by working out that the cost of all new asteroids are basically (1000+150m) + (something).
something =
0
+
150
+
150 + 150
+
150 + 150 + 150
+
....
=
150* (
0
+
1
+
2
+
3
+
....)
=
150* ( 1/2* (n)(n-1) )
where 1/2 * n * (n-1) is the sum of 0 + 1 + 2 + ... + n-2 + n-1

Then I just simplified it
Thanks, will look over it today and add it

Do you know the other formula?

how many asteroids i can init with X amount of resources? or is that one still too complicated?
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Unread 6 May 2009, 23:33   #29
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Re: First Tick Setup

Just fill in resources for cost and m for the number of roids you have, then solve the equation for n. Pretty straightforward.

cost = 1m
m = 50

1000000 = n * (925 + 7500 + 75*n)
75n² + 8425n - 1000000 = 0
n ~ 72
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 6 May 2009 at 23:43.
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Unread 23 Jun 2009, 10:12   #30
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Re: First Tick Setup

Thanks light /me ops you!!! :P
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Unread 28 Aug 2009, 12:58   #31
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Re: First Tick Setup

<Light> construct research labv (construction screen)

history tells us thats not just her planet set up, but whole round gameplan
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Unread 28 Aug 2009, 13:03   #32
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatcher View Post
<Light> construct research labv (construction screen)

history tells us thats not just her planet set up, but whole round gameplan
While history tells us, irrelevance, just like this post, is yours.
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Unread 24 Oct 2009, 21:24   #33
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Re: First Tick Setup

This is now outdated.. Please see
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=198236 for a updated version.
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Unread 28 Oct 2009, 03:19   #34
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Re: First Tick Setup

Would you please repost the tickplan from last round? I plan on saving my start bonuses and it actually might be useful...
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Unread 28 Oct 2009, 09:34   #35
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallBiter View Post
Would you please repost the tickplan from last round? I plan on saving my start bonuses and it actually might be useful...
It makes more sense to save part of your start bonus. Last rounds tick plan won't help you then.
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Unread 28 Oct 2009, 14:44   #36
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Re: First Tick Setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallBiter View Post
Would you please repost the tickplan from last round? I plan on saving my start bonuses and it actually might be useful...
The thread has not been deleted, it has just fallen off your list of active threads. If you search this forum for threads by Light I am sure it will come right up.
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