For non-americans concerned about the US elections...

[Sunday8pm]

Let me sing you a relaxing lullaby

sometimes when the world is tough
with unemployment war and stuff
im sitting on the lav and staring at the ceiling
i'm despairing
coz the future frightens me
too much responsibility
i grab game boy nostalgia glee
and plug my tetris in.



as soon as tetris blocks cascade,
my anxious thoughts begin to fade,
my girlfriend left me recently,
now she's a distant memory
because i've got a long thin block,
which very soon is going to dock,
beside a massive tetris rock,
and make it disappear.



my friend joe's a tetris sceptic,
says it makes you epileptic,
but he doesn't understand,
it builds the muscles in your hand,
and it improves coordination,
puts you in a situation,
where you use imagination
to stack loads of odd shaped blocks.

This is how much we should care

[Qdeathstar]

Vote Bush. What song. If your not american. Tell your american freinds to vote bush.

What would kerry do different. He cant make up his mind for shit.

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

buzzzz buzz buzz buzzzzzz

Oh Adam & Joe you've taken my mind off of everything, these insects will never get the better of me.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Vote Bush. What song. If your not american. Tell your american freinds to vote bush.

What would kerry do different. He cant make up his mind for shit.

Vote kerry. Maybe he'll ban qds from the internet.




Bush sure didn't!

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Cuddly little irish giggles

Now now, be off with you before I have your pot of gold.

[Kurashima]

Lucky Charms , Ginger Trolls , Redneck trailer trash, this thread has EVERYTHING!

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by Midget Porn Actor(out of work)

Lucky Charms , Ginger Trolls , Redneck trailer trash, this thread has EVERYTHING!

NOW it has everything.

[mist]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Vote Bush. What song. If your not american. Tell your american freinds to vote bush.

What would kerry do different. He cant make up his mind for shit.

The thing about John Kerry is, he's a flip-flopper.

Originally Posted by www.georgewbush.org

Anyway, yeah, John Kerry's policies are dramatically different from ours. If you can believe it, this guy is so wishy-washy, that he actually changes his mind about stuff when circumstances change! Not me. I stick to my original plans no matter what. When I decide to take a long drive in my car, and that little light starts blinking telling me that the engine's about to explode, I don't stop! But John Kerry, he'd see that light, and he'd change his mind about taking that long drive. He'd actually stop and do something about it!

(Boos.)

I know! Crazy, right? If I decide to dig a well to supply drinking water to my house, and one day I turn on the faucet and out bubbles a steaming cup of radioactive pig shit, I'm still going to drink it! But John Kerry, you can bet your bottom dollar that he'd flip-flop right there and then, say he was not supporting that well anymore!

(Boos.)

In these dangerous times, America cannot afford that kind of indecision.

appologies for the long quote, but it ammused me AND seemed relevant

-mist

[Nondescript Human]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Vote Bush. What song. If your not american. Tell your american freinds to vote bush.

What would kerry do different. He cant make up his mind for shit.

My God. Can it be true? Have we really found a worse poster than Sunday?

[Hicks]

Lets not go overboard.

[Knight Theamion]

oh yes these 'dangerous times' :\

[G.K Zhukov]

Indeed Theamion. QDeathStar is about!

[Knight Theamion]

ohnoes, off to hoth!

[djbass]

look, those crazy zeppos have been ****ing over their own country for decades, why should we start caring now?

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Nondescript Human

My God. Can it be true? Have we really found a worse poster than Sunday?

read some of his other posts - that'll leave you in no doubt.
Sunday may troll but at least he can put forward a half decent argument that's spelt correctly.
EDIT some of the time...

[Boogster]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Vote kerry. Maybe he'll ban qds from the internet.




Bush sure didn't!

That about sums up Kerry's manifesto:

'Vote for me, I might change stuff, if you're lucky. I do hate Bush though. \o/'

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Boogster

That about sums up Kerry's manifesto:

'Vote for me, I might change stuff, if you're lucky. I do hate Bush though. \o/'

You mean people would need another reason to vote for him?

[Qdeathstar]

Well, if you base all your information from a shotty 9/11 movie.. then its quite easy to be persuaded to hate president bush. But then again, your probably too stupid to vote.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Well, if you base all your information from a shotty 9/11 movie.. then its quite easy to be persuaded to hate president bush. But then again, your probably too stupid to vote.

laughing on the internet.

Still, at least if Bush wins it means i can vote for Hilary in four years

[mist]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Well, if you base all your information from a shotty 9/11 movie.. then its quite easy to be persuaded to hate president bush. But then again, your probably too stupid to vote.

my dislike of bush was more selfish. he has a history of invading coutries and leaving them basically fked, iraq, afghanistan come to mind. britain has an expanding muslim culture, and currently has some islamic dude that the us want to extradite, but won't give him over (hee's on trial here, but that's not likely to worry someone who starts illegal wars to boost his pollings is it?) so i'm thinking that when bush withdraws from iraq at xmas, probably leaving us to clear up his shit, he'll decide to invade britain while the army's busy elsewhere.

kerry may decide to invade britain as well, but at least he's likely to have second thoughts about it, whereas bush' prides himself on not thinking about things. too stupid tp vote indeed :/

-mist

ps. never seen farendheight 9/11. i'm told it's funny tho, but not particularly well done

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

Well, if you base all your information from government press releases.. then its quite easy to be persuaded to hate president kerry. But then again, i'm too stupid to vote.

FIXED

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by Ste

FIXED

[Qdeathstar]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar
Well, if you base all your information from government press releases.. then its quite easy to be persuaded to hate president kerry. But then again, i'm too stupid to vote.

This is why liberals are so... out of touch. They edit or change what goes against what they think. Perfect.

[Hicks]

Yes those sneaky liberals also cause cancer.

[Sunday8pm]

I'd hardly describe the American Democrat party as 'liberal'... Just not extreme fanatic right.

[Summanus]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

This is why liberals are so... out of touch. They edit or change what goes against what they think. Perfect.

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT LIBERAL MEANS SO STOP SAYING IT

[Cochese]

What you non-Americans fail to realize is, Bush and Kerry are merely two slightly different sides of the same coin. I guarantee your opinion of America, Americans, and our international actions would not become substantially more favorable after four years of Kerry. He simply isn't "The Next Bill Clinton", which is what everyone wants.

Kerry has stated he is going to "stay the course" in Iraq until "we get the job done". That means, he's going to have a go at sweet talking France/Germany, and eventually will get more international support--meaning, dragging YOUR soldiers into Iraq. This is not what you want, but this is just what you'll get....because it isn't Bush trying to sell you on it.

You all are so anti-Bush, you'll blindly buy whatever Kerry is selling. Even the used shoes he's going to pawn off at his first UN appearance. Just wait and see.

Here's to you, Ralphie. Maybe one day Americans and non-Americans alike will open their eyes and throw you a bone. Until then, I guess we'll have to choose between crooked oilmen and billionaire ketchup heiresses.

Flip the coin, watch it flutter.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Cochese

What you non-Americans fail to realize is, Bush and Kerry are merely two slightly different sides of the same coin.

Actually cochese many people on here have held that opinion for a fairly long time.

[Dante Hicks]

No, I personally believed John Kerry was the saviour of the human race.

[Cochese]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Actually cochese many people on here have held that opinion for a fairly long time.

That's good to hear.

A few news tidbits I have read about Kerry's "overwhelming support" in Europe was making me giggle, and wondering if the joke was going to be on not only us, but you too.

[roadrunner_0]

best thread i have read all week
although i do think that sunday was on drugs for his first 3 or 4 posts (heh, not that that is a bad thing for once, made me laugh)

[Summanus]

Originally Posted by Cochese

That's good to hear.

A few news tidbits I have read about Kerry's "overwhelming support" in Europe was making me giggle, and wondering if the joke was going to be on not only us, but you too.

Even Clinton wasn't great, it seems he's turned into a hero AFTER he retired.

But still, losing $1900 is still better than $2000. Kerry may be shit, but he's less shit than Bush

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Summanus

Even Clinton wasn't great, it seems he's turned into a hero AFTER he retired.

Probably because of the crap that followed...
He was sandwiched between two shite presidents.
Hell, it would make me look like a good president.

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Qdeathstar

This is why republicans* are so... out of touch. They denounce as unpatriotic/evil/liberal what goes against what they think. Perfect.

FIXED AGAIN



PS - KERRY IS NOT LIBERAL. NOT LEFT-WING AND DEFINATELY NOT FAR-LEFT! Just because he is more left-wing (and even that is only marginally) than Bush (it's not hard) doesn't mean he's liberal.

*could have gone to the extreme and said right-wing extremists to counter the liberal claim but seeing as I suppose I am liberal it doesn't really matter.

[Qdeathstar]

PS - KERRY IS NOT LIBERAL. NOT LEFT-WING AND DEFINATELY NOT FAR-LEFT! Just because he is more left-wing (and even that is only marginally) than Bush (it's not hard) doesn't mean he's liberal.

Thats not what his voting record indicates, DESPITE what he says for political purposes. This goes back to you concheese as well. These to have voted VERY VERY differently, Kerry is just now becomming more towards the center only so that he can get elected... as soon as he gets that, he will "flip-flop" again and head back towards the far left. President Bush said it best.. "He is the liberal Senator from Mass.

[wu_trax]

IN THE USA YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT LEFT WING MEANS.

[Dace]

To be a midget porn actor does it mean you have to have a small dick?

[Tactitus]

This has to be the silliest argument this week. Kerry is certainly liberal/left-wing in the context of current American politics; which, as it just so happens, is where he's running for office. The fact that he might not be considered liberal/left-wing in another context (say, contemporary European politics) is vaguely interesting but not terribly relevant. The meaning of political terms (and language in general) shifts over time and from country to country, and insisting that the definition in your context is the only correct one just defines your own limitations.

It would be nice if terms like 'liberal' and 'left-wing' meant the same thing for all time and space, but they don't. Deal with it.

And stop shouting.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

This has to be the silliest argument this week. Kerry is certainly liberal/left-wing in the context of current American politics;

I think the problem here is that eventually you're letting other people frame the debate for you. Kerry is not left-wing even in American terms, not historically at least. Even in the last election a candidate miles to the "left" to Kerry stood and obtained a reasonable number of votes. You've got best-selling books by people like Michael Moore or films like Super Size Me which are what I'd term "North American leftism".

And even if we say Kerry is left-wing (which isn't the case), I think it's a bit of a joke to call him 'far left' as QDS did.

If John Kerry is far-left is everyone left of him just blanket termed as a communist?!

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

This has to be the silliest argument this week. Kerry is certainly liberal/left-wing in the context of current American politics; which, as it just so happens, is where he's running for office. The fact that he might not be considered liberal/left-wing in another context (say, contemporary European politics) is vaguely interesting but not terribly relevant. The meaning of political terms (and language in general) shifts over time and from country to country, and insisting that the definition in your context is the only correct one just defines your own limitations.

It would be nice if terms like 'liberal' and 'left-wing' meant the same thing for all time and space, but they don't. Deal with it.

And stop shouting.

i despair that in the US, left-wing is more to do with 'doesn't actually despise the poor' than 'wants to help them at the expense of others'. American right-wing politics isn't anything like convential conservatism any more, it's all-out plutocracy.

[Helix]

to QDS : Bush flip-flops just as much as Kerry. You should take a look at the recent interview he did, where he stated that he was pro-gay marraige (at least thats what he said in the interview, he said that states should have the right to make their own laws, and that if 2 guys wanted to have a union they should be able to do so) and then take a look at his speech at the Republican Convention where he stated that gay-marraige was an abhorration to the sanctity of marriage and should be stopped at all costs.

As to Kerry and Bush on the policy of Iraq, Kerry is in an awkward position. We (meaning the US and the entire international community for that matter) cannot back out of Iraq now. We must finish what Bush started and see this through to the end. Not only would backing out now make us look bad, but it would also make Iraq an even stronger breeding ground for terrorists than before. There is no easy solution to Iraq, the only solution is to frankly stay the course and make sure that Iraq can once again become a stable country. That doesn't mean I think it was right to go to war in Iraq in the first place, but it has been done and that severely limits the options available.

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

I think the problem here is that eventually you're letting other people frame the debate for you.

Since I don't view politics from a left/right perspective I don't really care how people define the terms. They're all pretty arbitrary to me.

Kerry is not left-wing even in American terms, not historically at least. Even in the last election a candidate miles to the "left" to Kerry stood and obtained a reasonable number of votes.

Is 3% a reasonable number? I think Nader will be lucky to get half that number this year, but ignoring that if you want to argue that 3% of Americans don't think Kerry is "far left" then OK. I don't think that's saying much though.

As I said, I don't put much stock in the whole left/right thing, but I think for a large majority of Americans they define them mostly in terms of the two major parties. I'm sorry if that upsets/amuses you, but that's the way I usually see the terms being used here.

You've got best-selling books by people like Michael Moore or films like Super Size Me which are what I'd term "North American leftism".

OK, but what does that mean in a political context?

And even if we say Kerry is left-wing (which isn't the case), I think it's a bit of a joke to call him 'far left' as QDS did.

I think he's "left-wing" and even "far left" as most Americans would use the terms. I don't think they're joking but feel free to laugh if you wish.

If John Kerry is fat-left is everyone left of him just blanket termed as a communist?!

Yeah, probably. To the extent it comes up at all.

I've heard a few people use "ultra-left" and "ultra-right", but what's the point?

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

Since I don't view politics from a left/right perspective I don't really care how people define the terms. They're all pretty arbitrary to me.

Well, to me neither to be honest. But I think the issue is that saying someone is "far" anything carries it with a certain implications to the average person. On these boards you've got people like wu_trax who opposes "extreme" anything, irrespective of what that actually means. A lot of quite intelligent people, when faced with something relatively complicated will presume some kind of compromise is the best solution.

I remember speaking to someone who once said the best political approach was to listen to both "extremes" and then the middle point would be the ideal. This was obviously an absurd way of doing things, but I suspect a relatively large number of people do something similar, at least unconsciously. In these terms it's pretty important to define who is far left, or far whatever.

Is 3% a reasonable number?

Yeah, for a candidate without massive financial backing, relatively low media profile, the power of the political machines behind him, in an electoral system which punishes 3rd parties, etc - I'd say 3% isn't too bad. I think he hit 6-7% in some states.

OK, but what does that mean in a political context?

Well I'm talking about the political culture. If reasonably popular books / media espouse a far more "extreme" viewpoint than Kerry or Bush then I don't see them as extreme. For the same reason I wouldn't say Bush was far-right since there's a whole bunch of people to the right of him who are relatively popular in the US.

I think he's "left-wing" and even "far left" as most Americans would use the terms. I don't think they're joking but feel free to laugh if you wish.

If this is true then I'm really surprised that (current polls, etc) 46% of Americans would vote for a "far left" candidate. I guess there's hope for America after all.

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

If this is true then I'm really surprised that (current polls, etc) 46% of Americans would vote for a "far left" candidate.

Yeah, but they don't mean it the way you do.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Tactitus

Yeah, but they don't mean it the way you do.

Sure, but do you think that 40%+ of Americans define themselves as far-left (or even left)?

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Sure, but do you think that 40%+ of Americans define themselves as far-left (or even left)?

Far-left, no; left, possibly (as they understand and use the terms). How people define themselves and how they vote aren't necessarily the same though. For one thing, there are only a limited number of candidates.