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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 14:13   #1
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Planetarion app

I remember there was a thread about it at some point.
What happened to the idea? As far as I remember, alot of people saw it as a good opportunity to gain more players.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 19:49   #2
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Re: Planetarion app

Money
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 19:56   #3
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Re: Planetarion app

Nothing happened to the idea.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 20 Feb 2016, 20:04   #4
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Re: Planetarion app

aint there allready a "PA ripoff" with a mobile app?
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 10:52   #5
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Re: Planetarion app

Is it that costly to make an app? I honestly have no idea.
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 13:10   #6
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Re: Planetarion app

I'd estimate 3+ man-months. Say $20k.

And just to pre-empt the standard "No, no, you can just get someone to volunteer to do it for free!" that someone always seems to come up with: yeah, good luck with that.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 22 Feb 2016 at 14:09. Reason: $30k -> $20k
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Unread 22 Feb 2016, 13:54   #7
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Re: Planetarion app

Depends on how open PA want to make development in general. If they exposed some more data to the community and worked on API's (bot heaven tho) then you could probably get PA popular again (99% bots)
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Unread 25 Feb 2016, 17:14   #8
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Re: Planetarion app

Well to me this is the main issue with PA. The game on its own is fine. We can finetune alot of things, but the base-game is good. It really just needs more people. The easiest way to do this is through making an app or facebook or anything.
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Unread 10 Mar 2016, 19:04   #9
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Re: Planetarion app

There are no approved apps and any third party apps run all sorts of security risks / similar. Any such references will be removed.
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Unread 10 Mar 2016, 21:45   #10
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Re: Planetarion app

Considering that no one has suggested that there should be an app created without the consent and participation of the pa team this seems an oddly off topic response from you Appocomaster.

It would be much more useful if you could respond why you don't think it would be a good idea for pa or why it could not be done. I have always assumed that it is simply finance; pa does not have the money for it and no one wants to make the investment. With just a few hundred players no one is likely to think they will get a big return out of such an app.
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Unread 10 Mar 2016, 22:06   #11
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Re: Planetarion app

He deleted 2 posts that were discussing an app that was supposed to exist. The first was joking, the second didn't get the joke, so Poco cut it off.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 10 Mar 2016, 22:44   #12
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Re: Planetarion app

Aha these must have been while I was not checking the forums as I missed them, the discussion seemed to be exactly where it was when I last saw it except for poco's reply
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Unread 10 Mar 2016, 22:49   #13
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Re: Planetarion app

I hope iluvatar at least got a time out between this and him requesting contact info elsewhere
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Unread 10 Mar 2016, 23:33   #14
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Re: Planetarion app

Must be a techie or 2 in teh community who would be able to look into this and hopefully get the ball rollling
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 08:30   #15
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
And just to pre-empt the standard "No, no, you can just get someone to volunteer to do it for free!" that someone always seems to come up with: yeah, good luck with that.
Thanks for playing, Paisley.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 09:17   #16
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Re: Planetarion app

I think the main problem with any app is integrating enough chat options into it.

The game itself only makes up about 40% of the total experience and more alliances are using multiple chat programs to organise defence and communicate on a daily basis.

I can't see how the game with irc bolted on the side would be visually appealing (a main component in app success) and now alliances messengers like whatsapp more to communicate would you also integrate that too?

I feel if you had viable chat within the app then it would make the game visuals (of which is there is none currently) squished or there would be a need to keep dipping in and out of different sections of the game and it just sounds like a big project.

In conclusion I don't feel an app would improve on the webpage + messenger model we currently use, of anything it would be more awkward to play with everything 'crushed' onto one screen together.

It would require a complete overhaul and possible dismantling of the team environment to make an app based planetarion work and that would destroy the basis of what's still appealing about the game
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 11:58   #17
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Re: Planetarion app

Look, I'm not trying to be Mr. Negative here, but the main problem with any app is that it is never going to happen. The odds of a PA app ever being made are -100%. What's that you say, negative odds don't exist? That's exactly right. And if you come back here in 10 years, neither will the PA app.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 12:11   #18
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Look, I'm not trying to be Mr. Negative here, but the main problem with any app is that it is never going to happen. The odds of a PA app ever being made are -100%. What's that you say, negative odds don't exist? That's exactly right. And if you come back here in 10 years, neither will the PA app.
What do tend to find is ... sometimes things happen when motivation is applied (not a certainty but it increases the odds)
Because I suck at tech its something that I can not do is go and start a draft for an app. (proably take me 10 years to get clued up on tech stuff) So im pretty much at the mercy of others.

however I do get my positivity from is that when I push ideas like galaxy adaptation of the alliance def page and now having alliance fleet access it eventually happens (i'll try pushing again for 0 loss stealers but have a max value cap per battle report very soon) so I do like to try and encourage where possible, and yes I've accepted there might not be an app ever made.... doesn't stop me asking for it.
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 12:13   #19
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Look, I'm not trying to be Mr. Negative here, but the main problem with any app is that it is never going to happen. The odds of a PA app ever being made are -100%. What's that you say, negative odds don't exist? That's exactly right. And if you come back here in 10 years, neither will the PA app.
Oh I completely agree, it won't happen because there isn't the drive or resources to make it happen.

I was just hypthosising it would also be a greater task than most think to make one that was playable and appealing if the opportunity arose
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 12:15   #20
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Re: Planetarion app

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Oh I completely agree, it won't happen because there isn't the drive or resources to make it happen.
Totally agree here ... I have suggested having a PA research and development team that has fallen on deaf ears ... to pick up the pace for stuff like this.
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 13:09   #21
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Re: Planetarion app

I'm not a huge techie either, but as has been said the app won't happen. People forget the game code is designed for browser use. So to make an app it would most likely have to be broken down and rewritten from the ground up. (as I said I'm no techie so I could be very wrong) afaik jagex (or some other company) owns the code to pa and lunar is licensed to use it. Odds of getting a for profit company to allow the code to be used to make an app without wanting a huge chunk of the profits from it and still keeping it affordable? Slim at best imo
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 13:32   #22
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by darkzidane View Post
I'm not a huge techie either, but as has been said the app won't happen. People forget the game code is designed for browser use. So to make an app it would most likely have to be broken down and rewritten from the ground up. (as I said I'm no techie so I could be very wrong) afaik jagex (or some other company) owns the code to pa and lunar is licensed to use it. Odds of getting a for profit company to allow the code to be used to make an app without wanting a huge chunk of the profits from it and still keeping it affordable? Slim at best imo
That is a fair assessment, even if somehow an app was developed etc, there is always that risk that rug can be pulled from ranul tech via jagex who imo (and im sure many agree with me) just don't give a flying XXXX.

Edit- im saying that jagex doesnt care and in no way saying that Lunar_lamp does not care just to clarify this.

Maybe before the idea of a PA APP can be entertained prehaps ownership of planetarion has to be considered as the first hurdle.
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 13:33   #23
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by darkzidane View Post
I'm not a huge techie either, but as has been said the app won't happen. People forget the game code is designed for browser use. So to make an app it would most likely have to be broken down and rewritten from the ground up. (as I said I'm no techie so I could be very wrong) afaik jagex (or some other company) owns the code to pa and lunar is licensed to use it. Odds of getting a for profit company to allow the code to be used to make an app without wanting a huge chunk of the profits from it and still keeping it affordable? Slim at best imo
You would essentially have to break the game down to its complete basics and then expand every facet to suit a wider range of people. It would need constant new content and refreshes.

Would it include a pure sim option?

Would it have micro transactions? And then does it become p2w?

I think unfortunately you would end up with a very different game, something like Galaxy Legend, and then you are entering a very competitive market which will chew you up and spit you out.

PA is best left as is, let it die gracefully rather than butchering it's core.
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 14:09   #24
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
You would essentially have to break the game down to its complete basics and then expand every facet to suit a wider range of people. It would need constant new content and refreshes.

Would it include a pure sim option?

Would it have micro transactions? And then does it become p2w?

I think unfortunately you would end up with a very different game, something like Galaxy Legend, and then you are entering a very competitive market which will chew you up and spit you out.

PA is best left as is, let it die gracefully rather than butchering it's core.
I still expect PA to adapt and change, however if there is insuffient change and adaptation then I do agree that PA will die
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 15:08   #25
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
I still expect PA to adapt and change, however if there is insuffient change and adaptation then I do agree that PA will die
With greatest respect (cos I like you ) I think you are a bit deluded with the current state of the game. It's been a dead enterprise for a number of years and as the 'success' of AD2460 shows there really is no call for browser based games of depth anymore.

No one seems to know exactly what they want from an app either, it's more of a general 'make an app and it will save pa'. There has been no one who has gone into any detail about how this would be achieved or how they would change the game to make it 'app friendly' and appeal to a bigger base. Cos seeing as you can play pa in its current guise quite comfortably via browser/whatsapp/irc app if it's soooo great why aren't note ppl playing it.

Maybe it's a project for you to map out how APP PA would play and how it would be different from this now. Would be interesting to work on I think
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Unread 11 Mar 2016, 16:48   #26
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
It's been a dead enterprise for a number of years and as the 'success' of AD2460 shows there really is no call for browser based games of depth anymore.
I think this is almost right. What I agree with is this: the shape of PA as we know it is dead. Players don't want to look at a glorified spreadsheet. AD2460 didn't improve this at all. It is certainly slicker, with more pictures, using the very latest innovations in HTML, CSS and Javascript. But those are still just minor improvements over what was available in the native world in the late 80s, early 90s. Even Myst, just about the last successful game that extensively featured still images and pre-rendered graphics in gameplay, did better than that. Myst was released in 1993, 23 years ago.

The part I disagree with is your focus on the term 'browser based'. With the development of technologies like Canvas and WebGL, games in the browser can look about as good as native PC games did just a few years ago. That's a pretty small gap, and certainly small enough for browser games to compete with still-popular native games that are often much older than that. The browser is not what's killing PA.

In spirit, I'd say the successful game that's closest to PA is EVE Online: a truly player-driven MMO. The developers are obviously still in charge of shaping the game, but they very intentionally shape it such that the players drive the gameplay, not the other way around. Contrast this with a game like WoW (or literally every other MMO out there), which is entirely driven by the content put in by the developers, with the players acting solely as consumers. Yes, there's PvP, but that part of the game is more like Starcraft or DotA than it is like PA. The scale is just too small.

Eve proves that a truly player-driven MMO can be successful, and thus that PA could be. Given recent technical innovations, some of which I listed above, a PA-like or Eve-like game could very well be browser based. That wouldn't and shouldn't be PA as we know it, but it would preserve the core of what PA is.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 11 Mar 2016 at 17:08. Reason: OK I think I'm done editing now. :(
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Unread 12 Mar 2016, 05:44   #27
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Re: Planetarion app

I've been toying with an idea of "modernized PA" for a good while (yes, I have an idea of what I'm talking about, I've done games for a living and will do so again, did my masters thesis on game usability blablabla), it's just that... spreadsheets don't evolve into something fancy and "modern game" -like that easy, especially spreadsheets with such critical social elements like PA. Various development tools would allow publishing to both mobile and browser at the same time, covering ~90% of the population with smartphones, which could get a larger playerbase, if it makes it out of the dumpyards where most of the games end up these days.

What comes to a PA app... pretty much the same deal as with the "modernized PA" -game, but even harder to make it out of the masses, 700 players is hardly a target audience for anyone to create an app. And would it have to be a complete game experience in the app, or just an app that does push notices when you get incs and gives browser links with a token based login (auto-login for those less techy) etc. ? (If you aren't using e-mail notifications already, that might help your experience a tad). Pushing all the game in to a somewhat mobile friendly app-interface that's not another browser just plainly is a no go, ofc a more mobile friendly UI or skin could be done, which changes the long descriptions and links to somewhat understandable icons or something, but... then again, if you really, really think about it, everyone already has a PA app in their phones (or a combination of 2-3 apps really) *Browser*, *E-mail* and possibly *IRC/Slack/WA/Telegram/whatnot* you decide to use for communication and if you could convince me that an APP that had all those qualities would somehow be possible, I'm sure one would have already been made in one form or another (most likely not PA in mind tho), as the true idea what these PA-APP threads have been searching for is a frigging browser with integrated chat properties and fancy icons.
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Unread 12 Mar 2016, 08:21   #28
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Re: Planetarion app

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
it's just that... spreadsheets don't evolve into something fancy and "modern game" -like that easy, especially spreadsheets with such critical social elements like PA.
Yeah, I agree. It needs (or needed) a major investment impulse, and at that point I'd be thinking 'sequel' or just 'new game' rather than, say, 'let's fix buddypacks' or 'man, how about those tag limis, am I right?'.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 13 Mar 2016, 03:04   #29
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Re: Planetarion app

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
I've been toying with an idea of "modernized PA" for a good while (yes, I have an idea of what I'm talking about, I've done games for a living and will do so again, did my masters thesis on game usability blablabla), it's just that... spreadsheets don't evolve into something fancy and "modern game" -like that easy, especially spreadsheets with such critical social elements like PA. Various development tools would allow publishing to both mobile and browser at the same time, covering ~90% of the population with smartphones, which could get a larger playerbase, if it makes it out of the dumpyards where most of the games end up these days.

What comes to a PA app... pretty much the same deal as with the "modernized PA" -game, but even harder to make it out of the masses, 700 players is hardly a target audience for anyone to create an app. And would it have to be a complete game experience in the app, or just an app that does push notices when you get incs and gives browser links with a token based login (auto-login for those less techy) etc. ? (If you aren't using e-mail notifications already, that might help your experience a tad). Pushing all the game in to a somewhat mobile friendly app-interface that's not another browser just plainly is a no go, ofc a more mobile friendly UI or skin could be done, which changes the long descriptions and links to somewhat understandable icons or something, but... then again, if you really, really think about it, everyone already has a PA app in their phones (or a combination of 2-3 apps really) *Browser*, *E-mail* and possibly *IRC/Slack/WA/Telegram/whatnot* you decide to use for communication and if you could convince me that an APP that had all those qualities would somehow be possible, I'm sure one would have already been made in one form or another (most likely not PA in mind tho), as the true idea what these PA-APP threads have been searching for is a frigging browser with integrated chat properties and fancy icons.
So basically exactly what I said except a few tech phrases and the 'I have experience' tag line at the start?

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Unread 13 Mar 2016, 06:50   #30
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Re: Planetarion app

But people don't value your opinion Kaiba, that's the difference
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Unread 13 Mar 2016, 08:05   #31
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
But people don't value your opinion Kaiba, that's the difference
Yet my opinion is correct, says a lot about 'people'.

Too blind to see the truth in front of them, so much hatred towards anything that doesn't match their opinion.
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Unread 15 Mar 2016, 06:07   #32
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
I still expect PA to adapt and change, however if there is insuffient change and adaptation then I do agree that PA will die
I went for a job interview a few months back, and mentioned I did a few tools and graphics related to Planetarion.

I stated that in PA's heyday it had 200k players (didn't mention bots), and that its slowly dying, then I said it had roughly 700-1000 players.

With that he said "Dying? I think its dead."
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Unread 15 Mar 2016, 21:26   #33
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Re: Planetarion app

There will never be a PA app because the current PA team are too lazy to do anything. You look at Spinner's team who are constantly improving 'the other game' with patches, and then you look at the PA team and it's laughable.
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Unread 16 Mar 2016, 08:35   #34
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Re: Planetarion app

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
There will never be a PA app because the current PA team are too lazy to do anything. You look at Spinner's team who are constantly improving 'the other game' with patches, and then you look at the PA team and it's laughable.
Don't be a dick. Spinner's team gets paid.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 16 Mar 2016, 08:51   #35
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Re: Planetarion app

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Don't be a dick. Spinner's team gets paid.
So did/does Cin
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Unread 16 Mar 2016, 11:05   #36
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Re: Planetarion app

A pittance, I bet.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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