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29 Aug 2003, 20:24
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#1
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Ark-miner wannabe
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,005
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So the shuffle is already decided?
Or well, atleast that's what Spinner is implying to a gal i know. Claims he knows who they all are, and knows they are all 4, waiting to time a 'cozy little private gal'.
Sorry Spinner, but it's bull****.
3 of them might be doing norty stuff, but the fourth aint.
So Spinner, instead of 'threatening', with a shuffle. Wouldn't it be smarter to make the decision today, and also make it PUBLIC so the crap some people might be doing ends? It would also mean less annoyed customers if you announce it late.
And to the lot who are actually being such big ass'd morons setting up private gals: Are you really such chicken-****s that you cant take the heat of a random round? The way the game is supposed to be played after all?
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29 Aug 2003, 20:39
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#2
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Idiot
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 10
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Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
your kidding right? about a shuffle? i hope i am not affected, i am in the paid gals, been there since forever too.... we just got to know each other and discussed tactics, defending, picking moc,mod etc..
PLEASE SPINNER!! if your going to shuffle anything, do it right now asap. i will feel disenchanted to say the least and every other gal that has went through the meeting new gal-mates process
shuffle now or no shuffle and post in public forums, make it sticky what galaxy they [who attempt to make private] are in.
__________________
r-1 newbie
r-2 inactive gal
r-3 Far Beyond Driven
"All facts are swept aside that fail to conform to what has become a self sustaining reality"
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29 Aug 2003, 20:59
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#3
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Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
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Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by Psyon
if your going to shuffle anything, do it right now asap.
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That would defeat the entire point of the shuffle.
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29 Aug 2003, 21:05
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#4
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snadwich fetcher
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ONE LOVE
Posts: 660
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Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by dabult
3 of them might be doing norty stuff, but the fourth aint.
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I resent the implication that those 3 are doing anything norty (outside of the bedroom of course).
Everyone was randomly placed, but now they need to be randomly placed again?
__________________
Nude On!
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29 Aug 2003, 21:07
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#5
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snadwich fetcher
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ONE LOVE
Posts: 660
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Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by Psyon
shuffle now or no shuffle and post in public forums, make it sticky what galaxy they [who attempt to make private] are in.
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Honestly?
YES, SMASH THE GALAXY WHO ENDED UP HAVING PRE-ESTABLISHED CONTACT. SMASH THEM INTO OBLIVION.
__________________
Nude On!
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29 Aug 2003, 21:19
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#6
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pe0n
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kindom of the Netherlands
Posts: 1,347
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There's no need for a shuffle if they simply started placing people really random. Not the way they do now.
__________________
round 5 noob
round 6 noob
round 7 noob: rank 6.198 25:20:25 - VoC member
round 8 noob: rank 4.112 7:2:3 - TFD member
round 9 rank 941 23:1:9 - TFD HC
round 9.5 rank 860 22:7:3 - TFD HC
round 10: rank unknown (was #1 for a while) 5:2:5 - Vengeance pe0n
round 10.5: rank 683 19:10:2 - VGN member
round 11: rank 138 8:8:4 - VsN member
round 12: rank 515 - VGN 'special attack officer' -> jumped ship to Rock
round 13: rank 85: NoS
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29 Aug 2003, 21:33
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#7
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
Everyone was randomly placed, but now they need to be randomly placed again?
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PA's "random" placement is never quite as random as it looks. Anyone who cares enough can figure out the basic algorithm. Then we play a little game I like to call 'the pre-tick shuffle dance' where Spinner goes through a 12-step program that starts out with him in denial 'No, there won't be a shuffle', quickly progresses to uncertainity 'We won't do a shuffle unless it's necessary' and finally ends up with his spiritual awakening 'Yes there will be a shuffle.'
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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29 Aug 2003, 21:47
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#8
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Idiot
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: usa
Posts: 10
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Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
Honestly?
YES, SMASH THE GALAXY WHO ENDED UP HAVING PRE-ESTABLISHED CONTACT. SMASH THEM INTO OBLIVION.
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heh, yes i did say that did i not? I did not even realize [chock it up to stupidity]
your post gave me a great laugh, hehehe good reply
i would like to retract my statement that you quoted now :P
__________________
r-1 newbie
r-2 inactive gal
r-3 Far Beyond Driven
"All facts are swept aside that fail to conform to what has become a self sustaining reality"
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29 Aug 2003, 21:59
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#9
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by Tactitus
PA's "random" placement is never quite as random as it looks. Anyone who cares enough can figure out the basic algorithm. Then we play a little game I like to call 'the pre-tick shuffle dance' where Spinner goes through a 12-step program that starts out with him in denial 'No, there won't be a shuffle', quickly progresses to uncertainity 'We won't do a shuffle unless it's necessary' and finally ends up with his spiritual awakening 'Yes there will be a shuffle.'
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You can't take advantage of any distribution algorithm unless you have real time information of the amount of players moving to the pay universe. Which nobody except for spinner and fudge have.
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29 Aug 2003, 22:19
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#10
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Ark-miner wannabe
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,005
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Dont get me wrong, im all for a shuffle close to tickstart, makes it more exiting.
But when mails are being sent out with accusations of 'playing the waiting game', and threats/semi-promises of a shuffle, you might aswell make up your mind and announce the fricken thing. So that people can keep on idling knowing they dont need to work on the current gal.
No matter what people say or do there will always be tossers trying to make private gals/clusters/paralells cause they're to chicken to play the game for what it is.
Would save a lot of hassle in the future if you set as policy to ALWAYS SHUFFLE, either close to tickstart or before protection ends.
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29 Aug 2003, 22:43
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#11
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
You can't take advantage of any distribution algorithm unless you have real time information of the amount of players moving to the pay universe. Which nobody except for spinner and fudge have.
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You don't need real time information if you can get a reasonable estimate of the migration rate to the paid universe (as a function of time-of-day, presumably). It would probably take several days' worth of observations and since it would be an estimate you probably wouldn't be able to get 10 out of 10 people in the same galaxy, but even if you only managed to get, say, 5 out of 10 that'd still be quite an advantage, no?
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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29 Aug 2003, 23:10
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#12
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Condemned to RP
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,654
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by Tactitus
You don't need real time information if you can get a reasonable estimate of the migration rate to the paid universe (as a function of time-of-day, presumably). It would probably take several days' worth of observations and since it would be an estimate you probably wouldn't be able to get 10 out of 10 people in the same galaxy, but even if you only managed to get, say, 5 out of 10 that'd still be quite an advantage, no?
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Incorrect, 1 planet coming in before you planned to come in would ruin the entire thing. So unless you KNOW that you are 3 planets off from place x:x:x in the universe and are able to time it precicely after 3 planets before the 4th planet signs up it's pretty useless. Also, you make it sound as if finding out the algorithm is the easy part, if there is any computorized randomizer involved there is absolutely no way of predicting where the next planet is going to land.
In theory your theory could work, but I think the chances of two people 'aiming' for eachother are equally small if those people were to randomly sign up / activate
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30 Aug 2003, 02:55
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#13
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Sir peon to you
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 275
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If its so difficult/impossible to do. Then explain why Spinner is sending mailed accusations that 4 out of 4 people have got themselves into a gal together.
Now i dont dissagree with you, i think your right. It would be too hard to predict. However this leads to me wondering what Spinner is doing :P
Are there not better things to do than get annoyed at how his random placement has worked
__________________
Ðragon to the Death!
"The only easy day was yesterday."
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30 Aug 2003, 02:57
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#14
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Klaatu barada nikto
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Posts: 3,237
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Incorrect, 1 planet coming in before you planned to come in would ruin the entire thing.
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It would ruin that planet's placement, perhaps, but I don't see why it would ruin "the entire thing."
Quote:
So unless you KNOW that you are 3 planets off from place x:x:x in the universe and are able to time it precicely after 3 planets before the 4th planet signs up it's pretty useless.
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I would assume anyone doing this would/could adjust their timing as they went along. That is, if they were overshooting/undershooting the target location they could adjust the interval for the subsequent planets. A large alliance has, what, a 150 or more planets to throw at the problem. They don't need a high individual success rate to succeed overall--just a handful of galaxy strongholds would give them an advantage.
Quote:
Also, you make it sound as if finding out the algorithm is the easy part, if there is any computorized randomizer involved there is absolutely no way of predicting where the next planet is going to land.
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I haven't analyzed the current placement scheme (nor do I intend to). It's possible that it's a lot better than previous schemes; but I would be mildly surprised if that were the case.
Quote:
In theory your theory could work, but I think the chances of two people 'aiming' for eachother are equally small if those people were to randomly sign up / activate
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Well, people have "beaten" the randomizer in the past (at least, beaten it enough to force a shuffle); so I don't see any reason to assume it can't and won't be done again. And of course, experienced players aren't going to assume that either, which is really all that matters.
I'm sure your recent experiences have demonstrated to you the fact that it isn't enough for the system to be fair, it also has to appear fair. A random placement is never going to appear fair, even if--in the unlikely event--it really is. Players will always think that someone has figured out how to beat the system. Each and every galaxy with 3-or-more members of the same alliance will be suspect. And that I think, as much as anything, is why Spinner always ends up doing a shuffle.
__________________
The Ottawa Citizen and Southam News wish to apologize for our apology to Mark Steyn, published Oct. 22. In correcting the incorrect statements about Mr. Steyn published Oct. 15, we incorrectly published the incorrect correction. We accept and regret that our original regrets were unacceptable and we apologize to Mr. Steyn for any distress caused by our previous apology.
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30 Aug 2003, 05:13
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#15
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Why in god's name is the randomiser not random? Is it just that someone can register many planets and hope to get in the same galaxy?
__________________
#linux
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30 Aug 2003, 11:47
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#16
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Pro. Elbow Licker
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 247
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Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?
Quote:
Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
I resent the implication that those 3 are doing anything norty (outside of the bedroom of course).
Everyone was randomly placed, but now they need to be randomly placed again?
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yus ofc... they're gonna keep shuffling (and randomly place ppl in galaxies) untill every galaxy has members of 10 different alliances (AND STOP CHEATING THE RANDOM PLACING METHOD/SHUFFLE METHOD EFFESSS!!!!!!!!), obviously...
aren't we spinner?
__________________
.: Truth is an event, and only through experience can the veracity of a truth be verified. :.
.: A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. :.
.: Soaring where angels fear to fly. :.
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30 Aug 2003, 15:36
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#17
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snadwich fetcher
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ONE LOVE
Posts: 660
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All these discussions about whether or not the system can be beaten are well and good, but fortunately irrelevant.
The case in mention regards a galaxy that ended up with friends. Due to that lucky draw, accusations have been made against my friends and colleagues that are unfounded.
Shuffling the universe is fine, probably a good idea. But when meritless attacks on people's integrity start, then there sure as hell better be some proof.
__________________
Nude On!
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1 Sep 2003, 22:05
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Blackpool, England
Posts: 68
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Since Spinner claimed in the now closed thread on the subject that the 'loophole' was closed while most gals had only 4 members it hardly seems to merit a universe wide shuffle as the influence will be minimal. Most of us have been spending time getting to know our new gal m8's - setting up irc chans etc. and I for one will be rather annoyed if I have to go through this whole process again. It certainly will do nothing to foster the community spirit that is hanging by a thread atm.
__________________
Played every round since r2. RB/Fury/Eclipse/Kralizec/MISTU/Angels/Urwins/Jenova/VisioN/audentes/xVx/Osiris/apprime/FaNG/Ultores/p3n/Mercenaries/ZT/ND
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1 Sep 2003, 22:21
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#19
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Ark-miner wannabe
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,005
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bazza[RB]
Since Spinner claimed in the now closed thread on the subject that the 'loophole' was closed while most gals had only 4 members it hardly seems to merit a universe wide shuffle as the influence will be minimal. Most of us have been spending time getting to know our new gal m8's - setting up irc chans etc. and I for one will be rather annoyed if I have to go through this whole process again. It certainly will do nothing to foster the community spirit that is hanging by a thread atm.
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I disagree that 'most' have settled in.
It's more likely so that 'most' have NOT bothered with anything, because everybody knows that a shuffle has happened every round so far.
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1 Sep 2003, 22:44
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#20
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Xenoc
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 297
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I have not even bothered upgrading my account yet.
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1 Sep 2003, 23:21
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#21
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none
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bazza[RB]
Since Spinner claimed in the now closed thread on the subject that the 'loophole' was closed while most gals had only 4 members it hardly seems to merit a universe wide shuffle as the influence will be minimal. Most of us have been spending time getting to know our new gal m8's - setting up irc chans etc. and I for one will be rather annoyed if I have to go through this whole process again. It certainly will do nothing to foster the community spirit that is hanging by a thread atm.
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What about the late arrivers, most of the veteran players have already payed and been moved together. The last ones will be in weaker galaxies.
Setting up an irc channel takes me 3 minutes, so that argument is bollocks.
Shuffle before start, that is most fair to everyone.....
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2 Sep 2003, 00:12
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#22
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Das Scoot
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 788
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Quote:
Originally posted by zenopus
I have not even bothered upgrading my account yet.
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Same. Slightly worried that waiting might mean not getting to decide GC/etc, but not much.
__________________
n00b since Jan 11th, 2001
I don't really know what I'm doing here
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2 Sep 2003, 09:21
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#23
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Most unimportant guy...
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kvinesdal
Posts: 1,393
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heh
its not all that random :P
__________________
When we discover the centre of the universe, alot of people will be shocked and dissapointed to know that they are not it!
Retired
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2 Sep 2003, 14:27
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Düsseldorf!
Posts: 5
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=)
__________________
Welcome to the Legoland!
Round 3: --Son of Dr. Funk--
Round 4: 3:1:1 --Legolas of Lothlorien--
Round 5: 9:1:1 --Legolas II of Field of Roses--
Round 6: 20:2:1 --Thranduil's Son of Northern Mirkwood--
Round 7: ??:??:10 --Petör Shaw of Rocky Picture--
Round 9: 16:1:5 --Jarlaxle of Crenshinibon--
1 more vote for a free PA.
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2 Sep 2003, 15:02
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#25
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Xenoc
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 297
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jonas
its not all that random
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9 Sep 2003, 18:45
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#26
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Sh33p h3rd3r
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 132
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I for one pick exactly what gal I wanted to be in. I was looking more for experienced beta players that knew how to initiate 18 roids to start, watched as the gals before it received their next planet and put myself right into the gal I wanted. Yes I understand the randomizing changed after the 4th planet was added but the damage was already done. Also because of the talk of a shuffle I have not made contact with any gal m8s and have posted this in gal forums.
As everyone before has said we need to know whether there will be a shuffle or not it makes a BIG difference on how I am going to proceed.
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10 Sep 2003, 02:37
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#27
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Wizard
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Great White North eh!
Posts: 102
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after all these rounds of PA..... EXPECT a shuffle its the Spinner way of doing things.
Anything else would mean we'd have to get a doctor out to spinners house to see if he was ok
__________________
I got roids......but I'm not going to share them with you!!
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10 Sep 2003, 11:32
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#28
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Most unimportant guy...
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kvinesdal
Posts: 1,393
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__________________
When we discover the centre of the universe, alot of people will be shocked and dissapointed to know that they are not it!
Retired
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10 Sep 2003, 13:00
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Denmark
Posts: 318
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This is very simple. PA HQ should just announce that they do a full shuffle just b4 the ticks start (maybe a few hours b4) and then there is noone who can do anything to get in same gal... ofc you can swarp afterwards, but that is kinda risky and a thing that you can never awoid nomatter what.
cbk
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10 Sep 2003, 13:26
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#30
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pe0n
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kindom of the Netherlands
Posts: 1,347
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbk100
This is very simple. PA HQ should just announce that they do a full shuffle just b4 the ticks start (maybe a few hours b4) and then there is noone who can do anything to get in same gal... ofc you can swarp afterwards, but that is kinda risky and a thing that you can never awoid nomatter what.
cbk
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You can avoid it by shuffling 2 weeks and a day into the game.
__________________
round 5 noob
round 6 noob
round 7 noob: rank 6.198 25:20:25 - VoC member
round 8 noob: rank 4.112 7:2:3 - TFD member
round 9 rank 941 23:1:9 - TFD HC
round 9.5 rank 860 22:7:3 - TFD HC
round 10: rank unknown (was #1 for a while) 5:2:5 - Vengeance pe0n
round 10.5: rank 683 19:10:2 - VGN member
round 11: rank 138 8:8:4 - VsN member
round 12: rank 515 - VGN 'special attack officer' -> jumped ship to Rock
round 13: rank 85: NoS
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10 Sep 2003, 13:56
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#31
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Personally I'd be hugely in favour of a shuffle, my gal's as inactive as hell
__________________
Finally free!
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10 Sep 2003, 14:00
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#32
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Das Scoot
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 788
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerbie
You can avoid it by shuffling 2 weeks and a day into the game.
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C'mon, even Spinner isn't that stupid.
Is he?
__________________
n00b since Jan 11th, 2001
I don't really know what I'm doing here
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10 Sep 2003, 14:49
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#33
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Mr. Blobby
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,271
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There will be no shuffle.
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10 Sep 2003, 14:57
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#34
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100% irresistible
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Suomi
Posts: 192
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Does this mean a random number of players in your galaxy for kick off rather than an "equal" start for all with everyone's galaxy?
__________________
- cheerios -
Part of the Elysium legacy.
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10 Sep 2003, 21:46
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In front of PC
Posts: 156
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Quote:
Originally posted by merlin1955
after all these rounds of PA..... EXPECT a shuffle its the Spinner way of doing things.
Anything else would mean we'd have to get a doctor out to spinners house to see if he was ok
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----------
Looks like it's time for your doctor to get on the move.
__________________
Originally posted by Vaio
I wouldnt want to put anyone off getting married, it is a wonderful thing (for other people !)
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