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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 20:24   #1
dabult
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So the shuffle is already decided?

Or well, atleast that's what Spinner is implying to a gal i know. Claims he knows who they all are, and knows they are all 4, waiting to time a 'cozy little private gal'.

Sorry Spinner, but it's bull****.

3 of them might be doing norty stuff, but the fourth aint.



So Spinner, instead of 'threatening', with a shuffle. Wouldn't it be smarter to make the decision today, and also make it PUBLIC so the crap some people might be doing ends? It would also mean less annoyed customers if you announce it late.


And to the lot who are actually being such big ass'd morons setting up private gals: Are you really such chicken-****s that you cant take the heat of a random round? The way the game is supposed to be played after all?
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 20:39   #2
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Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

your kidding right? about a shuffle? i hope i am not affected, i am in the paid gals, been there since forever too.... we just got to know each other and discussed tactics, defending, picking moc,mod etc..

PLEASE SPINNER!! if your going to shuffle anything, do it right now asap. i will feel disenchanted to say the least and every other gal that has went through the meeting new gal-mates process

shuffle now or no shuffle and post in public forums, make it sticky what galaxy they [who attempt to make private] are in.
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 20:59   #3
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Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by Psyon
if your going to shuffle anything, do it right now asap.
That would defeat the entire point of the shuffle.
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 21:05   #4
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Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by dabult

3 of them might be doing norty stuff, but the fourth aint.
I resent the implication that those 3 are doing anything norty (outside of the bedroom of course).



Everyone was randomly placed, but now they need to be randomly placed again?
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 21:07   #5
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Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by Psyon
shuffle now or no shuffle and post in public forums, make it sticky what galaxy they [who attempt to make private] are in.
Honestly?

YES, SMASH THE GALAXY WHO ENDED UP HAVING PRE-ESTABLISHED CONTACT. SMASH THEM INTO OBLIVION.
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 21:19   #6
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There's no need for a shuffle if they simply started placing people really random. Not the way they do now.
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 21:33   #7
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Exclamation Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
Everyone was randomly placed, but now they need to be randomly placed again?
PA's "random" placement is never quite as random as it looks. Anyone who cares enough can figure out the basic algorithm. Then we play a little game I like to call 'the pre-tick shuffle dance' where Spinner goes through a 12-step program that starts out with him in denial 'No, there won't be a shuffle', quickly progresses to uncertainity 'We won't do a shuffle unless it's necessary' and finally ends up with his spiritual awakening 'Yes there will be a shuffle.'
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 21:47   #8
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Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
Honestly?

YES, SMASH THE GALAXY WHO ENDED UP HAVING PRE-ESTABLISHED CONTACT. SMASH THEM INTO OBLIVION.
heh, yes i did say that did i not? I did not even realize [chock it up to stupidity]

your post gave me a great laugh, hehehe good reply

i would like to retract my statement that you quoted now :P
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 21:59   #9
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Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tactitus
PA's "random" placement is never quite as random as it looks. Anyone who cares enough can figure out the basic algorithm. Then we play a little game I like to call 'the pre-tick shuffle dance' where Spinner goes through a 12-step program that starts out with him in denial 'No, there won't be a shuffle', quickly progresses to uncertainity 'We won't do a shuffle unless it's necessary' and finally ends up with his spiritual awakening 'Yes there will be a shuffle.'
You can't take advantage of any distribution algorithm unless you have real time information of the amount of players moving to the pay universe. Which nobody except for spinner and fudge have.
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 22:19   #10
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Dont get me wrong, im all for a shuffle close to tickstart, makes it more exiting.

But when mails are being sent out with accusations of 'playing the waiting game', and threats/semi-promises of a shuffle, you might aswell make up your mind and announce the fricken thing. So that people can keep on idling knowing they dont need to work on the current gal.

No matter what people say or do there will always be tossers trying to make private gals/clusters/paralells cause they're to chicken to play the game for what it is.

Would save a lot of hassle in the future if you set as policy to ALWAYS SHUFFLE, either close to tickstart or before protection ends.
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 22:43   #11
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Exclamation Re: Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
You can't take advantage of any distribution algorithm unless you have real time information of the amount of players moving to the pay universe. Which nobody except for spinner and fudge have.
You don't need real time information if you can get a reasonable estimate of the migration rate to the paid universe (as a function of time-of-day, presumably). It would probably take several days' worth of observations and since it would be an estimate you probably wouldn't be able to get 10 out of 10 people in the same galaxy, but even if you only managed to get, say, 5 out of 10 that'd still be quite an advantage, no?
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Unread 29 Aug 2003, 23:10   #12
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tactitus
You don't need real time information if you can get a reasonable estimate of the migration rate to the paid universe (as a function of time-of-day, presumably). It would probably take several days' worth of observations and since it would be an estimate you probably wouldn't be able to get 10 out of 10 people in the same galaxy, but even if you only managed to get, say, 5 out of 10 that'd still be quite an advantage, no?
Incorrect, 1 planet coming in before you planned to come in would ruin the entire thing. So unless you KNOW that you are 3 planets off from place x:x:x in the universe and are able to time it precicely after 3 planets before the 4th planet signs up it's pretty useless. Also, you make it sound as if finding out the algorithm is the easy part, if there is any computorized randomizer involved there is absolutely no way of predicting where the next planet is going to land.

In theory your theory could work, but I think the chances of two people 'aiming' for eachother are equally small if those people were to randomly sign up / activate
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Unread 30 Aug 2003, 02:55   #13
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If its so difficult/impossible to do. Then explain why Spinner is sending mailed accusations that 4 out of 4 people have got themselves into a gal together.

Now i dont dissagree with you, i think your right. It would be too hard to predict. However this leads to me wondering what Spinner is doing :P

Are there not better things to do than get annoyed at how his random placement has worked
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Unread 30 Aug 2003, 02:57   #14
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Exclamation Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by ParraCida
Incorrect, 1 planet coming in before you planned to come in would ruin the entire thing.
It would ruin that planet's placement, perhaps, but I don't see why it would ruin "the entire thing."
Quote:
So unless you KNOW that you are 3 planets off from place x:x:x in the universe and are able to time it precicely after 3 planets before the 4th planet signs up it's pretty useless.
I would assume anyone doing this would/could adjust their timing as they went along. That is, if they were overshooting/undershooting the target location they could adjust the interval for the subsequent planets. A large alliance has, what, a 150 or more planets to throw at the problem. They don't need a high individual success rate to succeed overall--just a handful of galaxy strongholds would give them an advantage.
Quote:
Also, you make it sound as if finding out the algorithm is the easy part, if there is any computorized randomizer involved there is absolutely no way of predicting where the next planet is going to land.
I haven't analyzed the current placement scheme (nor do I intend to). It's possible that it's a lot better than previous schemes; but I would be mildly surprised if that were the case.
Quote:
In theory your theory could work, but I think the chances of two people 'aiming' for eachother are equally small if those people were to randomly sign up / activate
Well, people have "beaten" the randomizer in the past (at least, beaten it enough to force a shuffle); so I don't see any reason to assume it can't and won't be done again. And of course, experienced players aren't going to assume that either, which is really all that matters.

I'm sure your recent experiences have demonstrated to you the fact that it isn't enough for the system to be fair, it also has to appear fair. A random placement is never going to appear fair, even if--in the unlikely event--it really is. Players will always think that someone has figured out how to beat the system. Each and every galaxy with 3-or-more members of the same alliance will be suspect. And that I think, as much as anything, is why Spinner always ends up doing a shuffle.
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Unread 30 Aug 2003, 05:13   #15
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Why in god's name is the randomiser not random? Is it just that someone can register many planets and hope to get in the same galaxy?

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Unread 30 Aug 2003, 11:47   #16
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Re: Re: So the shuffle is already decided?

Quote:
Originally posted by Barrow|Pony
I resent the implication that those 3 are doing anything norty (outside of the bedroom of course).



Everyone was randomly placed, but now they need to be randomly placed again?
yus ofc... they're gonna keep shuffling (and randomly place ppl in galaxies) untill every galaxy has members of 10 different alliances (AND STOP CHEATING THE RANDOM PLACING METHOD/SHUFFLE METHOD EFFESSS!!!!!!!!), obviously...
aren't we spinner?
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Unread 30 Aug 2003, 15:36   #17
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All these discussions about whether or not the system can be beaten are well and good, but fortunately irrelevant.

The case in mention regards a galaxy that ended up with friends. Due to that lucky draw, accusations have been made against my friends and colleagues that are unfounded.

Shuffling the universe is fine, probably a good idea. But when meritless attacks on people's integrity start, then there sure as hell better be some proof.
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Unread 1 Sep 2003, 22:05   #18
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Since Spinner claimed in the now closed thread on the subject that the 'loophole' was closed while most gals had only 4 members it hardly seems to merit a universe wide shuffle as the influence will be minimal. Most of us have been spending time getting to know our new gal m8's - setting up irc chans etc. and I for one will be rather annoyed if I have to go through this whole process again. It certainly will do nothing to foster the community spirit that is hanging by a thread atm.
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Unread 1 Sep 2003, 22:21   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bazza[RB]
Since Spinner claimed in the now closed thread on the subject that the 'loophole' was closed while most gals had only 4 members it hardly seems to merit a universe wide shuffle as the influence will be minimal. Most of us have been spending time getting to know our new gal m8's - setting up irc chans etc. and I for one will be rather annoyed if I have to go through this whole process again. It certainly will do nothing to foster the community spirit that is hanging by a thread atm.

I disagree that 'most' have settled in.

It's more likely so that 'most' have NOT bothered with anything, because everybody knows that a shuffle has happened every round so far.
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Unread 1 Sep 2003, 22:44   #20
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I have not even bothered upgrading my account yet.
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Unread 1 Sep 2003, 23:21   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bazza[RB]
Since Spinner claimed in the now closed thread on the subject that the 'loophole' was closed while most gals had only 4 members it hardly seems to merit a universe wide shuffle as the influence will be minimal. Most of us have been spending time getting to know our new gal m8's - setting up irc chans etc. and I for one will be rather annoyed if I have to go through this whole process again. It certainly will do nothing to foster the community spirit that is hanging by a thread atm.

What about the late arrivers, most of the veteran players have already payed and been moved together. The last ones will be in weaker galaxies.


Setting up an irc channel takes me 3 minutes, so that argument is bollocks.

Shuffle before start, that is most fair to everyone.....
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Unread 2 Sep 2003, 00:12   #22
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Quote:
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I have not even bothered upgrading my account yet.

Same. Slightly worried that waiting might mean not getting to decide GC/etc, but not much.
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Unread 2 Sep 2003, 09:21   #23
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heh

its not all that random :P
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Unread 2 Sep 2003, 14:27   #24
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Round 3: --Son of Dr. Funk--
Round 4: 3:1:1 --Legolas of Lothlorien--
Round 5: 9:1:1 --Legolas II of Field of Roses--
Round 6: 20:2:1 --Thranduil's Son of Northern Mirkwood--
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Unread 2 Sep 2003, 15:02   #25
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Quote:
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its not all that random
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Unread 9 Sep 2003, 18:45   #26
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I for one pick exactly what gal I wanted to be in. I was looking more for experienced beta players that knew how to initiate 18 roids to start, watched as the gals before it received their next planet and put myself right into the gal I wanted. Yes I understand the randomizing changed after the 4th planet was added but the damage was already done. Also because of the talk of a shuffle I have not made contact with any gal m8s and have posted this in gal forums.

As everyone before has said we need to know whether there will be a shuffle or not it makes a BIG difference on how I am going to proceed.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 02:37   #27
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after all these rounds of PA..... EXPECT a shuffle its the Spinner way of doing things.

Anything else would mean we'd have to get a doctor out to spinners house to see if he was ok
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 11:32   #28
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hes never been 'ok'
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 13:00   #29
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This is very simple. PA HQ should just announce that they do a full shuffle just b4 the ticks start (maybe a few hours b4) and then there is noone who can do anything to get in same gal... ofc you can swarp afterwards, but that is kinda risky and a thing that you can never awoid nomatter what.

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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 13:26   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbk100
This is very simple. PA HQ should just announce that they do a full shuffle just b4 the ticks start (maybe a few hours b4) and then there is noone who can do anything to get in same gal... ofc you can swarp afterwards, but that is kinda risky and a thing that you can never awoid nomatter what.

cbk
You can avoid it by shuffling 2 weeks and a day into the game.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 13:56   #31
furball
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Personally I'd be hugely in favour of a shuffle, my gal's as inactive as hell
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 14:00   #32
Scoot951
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerbie
You can avoid it by shuffling 2 weeks and a day into the game.

C'mon, even Spinner isn't that stupid.




Is he?
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 14:49   #33
Leshy
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Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Leshy has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
There will be no shuffle.
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 14:57   #34
rnd|One
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Does this mean a random number of players in your galaxy for kick off rather than an "equal" start for all with everyone's galaxy?
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Unread 10 Sep 2003, 21:46   #35
Kåre Willoch
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Quote:
Originally posted by merlin1955
after all these rounds of PA..... EXPECT a shuffle its the Spinner way of doing things.

Anything else would mean we'd have to get a doctor out to spinners house to see if he was ok
----------

Looks like it's time for your doctor to get on the move.
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Originally posted by Vaio
I wouldnt want to put anyone off getting married, it is a wonderful thing (for other people !)
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