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Unread 22 Dec 2012, 20:58   #101
isildurx
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Just team with CR if you absolutely want to hit xan with bs?
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Unread 23 Dec 2012, 17:29   #102
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete list of changes
Pegasus: Arm 143 -> 139, Dmg 71 -> 69, ERes 84 -> 82
Wyvern: Dmg 260 -> 265
Dragon: Dmg 335 -> 350
Demeter: ERes 85 -> 81
Leviathan: ERes 89 -> 87
Scorpion: Init 3 -> 2, Gun 20 -> 22
Mosquito: ERes 70 -> 64
Hornet: ERes 58 -> 53
Fireblade: ERes 37 -> 42
Ghost: ERes 62 -> 56, Dmg 42 -> 40
Illusion: ERes 31 -> 27
Vampyre: ERes 50 -> 41
Corsair: Cost 190 -> 185, ERes 64 -> 63
Cutlass: Arm 13 -> 14, Cost 306 -> 315, ERes 71 -> 73
Pirate: Arm 340 -> 350, Dmg 305 -> 320
Smuggler: ERes 78 -> 72
Pillager: ERes 81 -> 77
Rambler: ERes 40 -> 27
Bailiff: ERes 56 -> 47
Misunderstood EMP. Pods are now always fully emped just before their escorts are. Ter/Xan De teamups were too strong. Bs was too weak. Minor boost to Zik Co. Scorpion is now somewhat useful.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 23 Dec 2012 at 23:32.
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Unread 23 Dec 2012, 23:31   #103
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Also, Appoco reset the beta.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 00:01   #104
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Considering the following changes:

Wyvern: Dmg 265 -> 255
Dragon: Init 9 -> 8
Tycoon: Init 8 -> 9
(Goal: nerfing Etd Cr)

Scorpion: Type Emp -> Normal, Init 2 -> 8
(Goal: nerfing Etd Fr, making Scorpion useful)

Thief: Dmg 19 -> 22
Clipper: Dmg 57 -> 68, ERes 76 -> 72
Pirate: Dmg 320 -> 350
(Goal: making Zik steal eff more in line with previous rounds)
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 11:02   #105
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I think the changes to the drag, tyc and scorp at least looks good.
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 16:39   #106
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Im afraid youll see very low etd percentages with that drag/tyc switch
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 17:08   #107
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

That change would make the Dragon the only ship that fires before Etd Cr, with only the Investor (also Etd) firing at the same time. Broker hug Drake at T2 before they fire on Tycoon.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 28 Dec 2012 at 17:24.
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 18:20   #108
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Currently, either Ter Bs stops Etd Cr or vice versa. Considering Etd Cr has the Tarantula as same-class teamup, I see it as only fair that they fire later.

It does 'suck' that Wyverns stops their second class, though, shutting down Etd's Fr fakes if the Ter sends both.
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 18:55   #109
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

the way I see it etd is gonna be like cath this round as it got horrible defenses. I thought them having good offense was suppose to balance that out.
Now their cr will have alot harder time landing. And their no longer safe vs bs incs. only from fi and fr.
Broker isnt a really good offensive ship as its target fr first which has no purpose on the offensive side. And yeah I get the tarantula teamup idea. but I dont really think etd cr bring much to a cat cr in a teamup.
Id be more up for the idea of changing init on tyc/dragon if roach/broker changed targetting with a slight viper buff aswell.
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 20:36   #110
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I really don't think that change weakens etd too much, atm they look like the best race to me.
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 20:57   #111
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I actually agree with Isildurx, you know how much that pains me. Etd Cr was VERY strong before and the change doesnt close off attack options because it still fires before Pirate and Tara's Emp before Bs, and all hug vs Fr/De has its ups and downs...
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Unread 28 Dec 2012, 21:30   #112
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Being right for once pains you?
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Unread 29 Dec 2012, 06:25   #113
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Na, Agreeing with people Pains me.
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Unread 29 Dec 2012, 15:16   #114
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Etd Cr was way too strong and Ter Bs a bit on the weak side. Ter De did not need a boost, so I've kept the Drake at the same init as the Tycoon, though I boosted the Drake's damage a little to make it deal with Ter Bs a bit better. The Locust init change is also connected to this bunch.

The Scorpion was pretty useless. It has a function now, though I still don't expect Cats to build many. Not that they need to: Roaches flak Etd Fr, Scorpions kill them. The Interceptor and Merchant, though you would not think it, were both really damn good. Xan Fi was covered by 40% of its value in Interceptor, and Etd Fr by 48% of its value in Merchant. Considering that those are both single fleets in these stats, I felt that was a little overkill. The Merchant change also compensates a little for the Scorpion.

Etd Fr also faced the Corsair, which covered it at 45% of its value, so I've nerfed it. The ERes boost is to compensate against Cat Co, which it was never very good against. I've nerfed the Ranger, which did way too well against Xan Fi. These changes should improve the defensive viability of Etd Fr and Xan Fi.

Spider was another fairly useless ship. It's now 50% better against Co than the Beetle.

Bolt Thrower boosted a little to make it viable against Zik Bs. Not opposed to further boosts here, but we'll see.

Pirate needed more raw power, plain and simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete list of changes
Drake: Init 8 -> 9, Dmg 72 -> 74
Wyvern: Dmg 265 -> 255
Dragon: Init 9 -> 8
Behemoth: Arm 160 -> 140, Dmg 80 -> 100
Spider: Arm 10 -> 9, Cost 191 -> 165, ERes 60 -> 54
Locust: Init 9 -> 10
Scorpion: Type Emp -> Norm, Init 2 -> 8, Guns 20 -> 1, Dmg 0 -> 200, ERes 77 -> 79
Bolt Thrower: Dmg 15 -> 16
Corsair: Dmg 8 -> 7, ERes 63 -> 70
Pirate: Dmg 320 -> 350
Interceptor: Init 20 -> 19, Dmg 6 -> 5, Cost 145 -> 137, ERes 50 -> 47
Merchant: Arm 10 -> 9
Ranger: Dmg 19 -> 17, Arm 21 -> 20
Tycoon: Init 8 -> 9, Dmg 132 -> 135
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 29 Dec 2012 at 15:37.
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Unread 29 Dec 2012, 23:10   #115
Mzyxptlk
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I've been getting some comments regarding Zik effs, specifically their steal ships. While, yes, they're a bit below what we had last round. I really can't see any reason to increase them, based on the calcs I've done.

The Marauder has low damage because it owns the shit out of Zik Bs due to firing first. It also performs alright (but not great) against Ter Bs:
Ter Bs: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=6dasnd9foec7te1
Zik Bs: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=p8lio8hhf63cjop

The Clipper has fairly low damage because it already does pretty well against both Co fleets:
Cat Co: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=2ka2pfla8qbuif7
Zik Co: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=lg51wzbh6czpc8c

Thief and Pirate are both strong as ****.

More generally speaking, we've only had 2 rounds with semi-MT stats before: round 47 and 48. In round 47, the average A/C for Zik steal ships was 377, the average D/C was 463 and Zik had 40 planets in the top 100. In round 48, the averages were 430 and 445, respectively, with 33 planets in the top 100. My current stats have 521 A/C and 419 D/C. While such a shallow analysis on its own is not enough to support the current effs, it does demonstrate that by no means does Zik always need 500/500 eff on its steal ships in order to do well.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 29 Dec 2012 at 23:19.
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 00:28   #116
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

The problem with zik isn't the a/c , its the fact that since the salvage Change still are eunuch worse and lowering there damage it only makes them suck more, remember every race fires 1st and they have shot for damage now. I would rather see zik with 450d/c and 380a/c then what you have now. They barley have 100% eff vs xan... That just sucks., if you leave zik steal ships as is you will see less than 10%ziks played. Or make there kill ships have good init to compensate for the shitty damage.
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 09:10   #117
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
The problem with zik
You appear to have ignored my post. Based on the calcs I've done, Zik is fine. There is no problem.

P.S. "eunuch worse"?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 10:27   #118
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

yeah tbh less people will play Zik anyway, not because of the stats but because of this awful salvage change. The average Zik now is going to struggle to keep pace with the rest of the universe as the race is not designed for attacking and defensive stealing is now basically 'swapping something useful for something less useful' as we saw with corsairs last round.

Im liking these stats atm. I like that mz is strong enough to say no to people and try and keep his own vision going.. hopefully that will extend to when Appocomaster gets his hands on them.

Getting a little annoyed with a few people on here though, Tia trying to make Zik better (as a notorious Zik player) and Plaguu angling to keep ETD OP so he can play an easy round as them.
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 10:47   #119
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
yeah tbh less people will play Zik anyway, not because of the stats but because of this awful salvage change. The average Zik now is going to struggle to keep pace with the rest of the universe as the race is not designed for attacking and defensive stealing is now basically 'swapping something useful for something less useful' as we saw with corsairs last round.

Im liking these stats atm. I like that mz is strong enough to say no to people and try and keep his own vision going.. hopefully that will extend to when Appocomaster gets his hands on them.

Getting a little annoyed with a few people on here though, Tia trying to make Zik better (as a notorious Zik player) and Plaguu angling to keep ETD OP so he can play an easy round as them.
funny ^^

I wouldnt even consider playing etd unless 50%+ picked xan
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 12:14   #120
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I just renamed Demeter to Ziz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Demeter is a bit annoying, as she was a goddess, not a mythical creature. Not only that, but she was the goddess of agriculture. Hardly fitting for a PA ship. I expect everyone's going to hate me for the replacement though. The Ziz originates from the same myths as Leviathan and Behemoth, except apparantly big sea serpents and overgrown hippos are cooler than birds big enough to block out the sun (Though let's face it, Leviathan and Behemoth do sound slightly more intimidating).
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 19:57   #121
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Mz, What options do Zik have with these stats? Attack Cath all round? because they can't attack anything else.

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=wg5sb8igxeff8t7
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=hy7g7y1nf7jhbc4

1 option:
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=4ashny4gxf2lcct

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=u7pj2ny7cdqsusq
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=w4nohvm8p5suxwq

Maybe? If your really intersted in losing value
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=chwgia8yrrrp092

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=i0jdouuzybyxdtl
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=sd8hhbxlj55gik1

http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=jy4ov1xpq8fj6ns
http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=7r4v335qvqs5pse


So they can only ever attack Ter De that has no flack, everything else is just stupid. huge value losses and not even stealing into useful classes. And only with one of its attack classes Co has no viable targets except for Cath which everyone can attack. So either a) make cath harder to be attacked by other races or! make Zik Co have some attack options that are better than just cath, because if I wanted to attack cath I could pick any race and do it.
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 22:15   #122
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Its known as 'the hardest race to play as' for a reason :P

Zik shouldnt be able to solo attack anyway, i think thats the point of its crap int.. it needs a teamup to land and then it steals/swaps ships if any are there. Zik should not be made retard easy to play with, regardless of wether Appoco has completely spazzed up the salvage now it still has lots of pro's as a race, the best players will still be able to play it and i imagine even if you made it completely shite you would still get a 20% of the universe playing it BECAUSE IT STEALS!!!

The stats are basically done now i think, everything is nicely balanced and should make for a good round, the best kind of round is one where the stats arent mentioned, having no impact on the playability of game

Nice job mz

PS. Im sure appoco will butcher them by the end of the week :P
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 23:10   #123
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I thought you might be onto something, however, to make sure, I went back to round 47 and 48 to see how Zik fared offensively.


In round 47, Zik had Fr and Cr fleets.

Buccaneer stole Fr T2 at the same init as Thief stole Bucc T1. I didn't calc that one (doing all of this manually), but same init steal is always nasty for the attacker, even at T2. Wyvern and Ghost were 0 loss kill against Zik Fr. Guardian was 0 loss EMP, with the Centaur fired before the Thief.

Zik Cr was a little better. Both Ter and Etd were roidable. The Dragon was slower than Clipper, and Voyager slower than Pirate. However, the Widow was a 0 loss EMP ship that hugged Zik Cr at 114% efficiency. Spectre fired before Pirate; Xans needed 38% of the attacking fleet in Spectres to destroy them 3:1. Zik had the Thief, which is 0 loss against Zik Cr.

So, that means Zik Fr "could not roid anyone" and Zik Cr could only roid Ter and Etd. In addition to that, they had a ton of 0 loss defense against them (meaning 1 defense fleet stops any teamup), which r50 Ziks do not. Nevertheless, that round had 40% Zik in the top 100, and that was before the (slight, but noticeable) salvage boosts in round 48 and 49, which I have taken into account in my calcs, but obviously did not affect the rankings.


Onwards to round 48. Also Fr and Cr, and no 0 loss defense this time.

The Fr fleet roided Ter and Etd. Ter needed 123% value in Harpies to stop Zik Fr. Etd needed 151% value in Vendor (steal) and/or 98% value in Recluse (hug). Banshee fired before the Cutlass. Rogue stole itself at T2, so that puts Ziks out of the picture. This does look a lot better than r47's Fr fleet.

The Cr fleet roided Zik and Etd. Zik only had the Clipper as anti-Cr. It fired after the Marauder steals it, and even then only at the same time as Pirates stole. Etd and Cat were pretty much identical: 76% value in Recluse and/or 106% value in Guardian needed. Chimera (53% needed), Dragon (47% needed) and Shadow (60% needed) stopped Zik Cr dead in its tracks. This looks about the same as round 47's Zik Cr.

So both fleets were viable attacking options, though any attack could be covered by 1 defender. This surprised me somewhat, because there were actually fewer Ziks in the top 100 in r48 than there were in r47.


All in all, especially considering round 47, I'm not overly concerned with r50 Zik. I'll take another look at them later on to see if I can boost them anywhere without breaking the rest of the stats, but expect no miracles.

I'll probably do 1 or 2 more updates, then call the stats final. I won't be making any changes after signups open, so that'll be on the 4th at the latest. I aim for the 1st, though, since I have to go back to work on the 2nd.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 30 Dec 2012 at 23:15.
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Unread 30 Dec 2012, 23:47   #124
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Nevertheless, that round had 40% Zik in the top 100, and that was before the (slight, but noticeable) salvage boosts in round 48 and 49, which I have taken into account in my calcs, but obviously did not affect the rankings.
This change as hugely effected the way Zik can be played, Zik could viably play alot of defense and would be able to make up for there lack of solo attack options with ingal/ally def that would give them good salvage and steals. Now they have no chance of that, and infact its Never a good idea for a zik to land any mission that involves swapping ships unless its in your attack class so only Thief fits that criteria this round.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
All in all, especially considering round 47, I'm not overly concerned with r50 Zik. I'll take another look at them later on to see if I can boost them anywhere without breaking the rest of the stats, but expect no miracles.

I'll probably do 1 or 2 more updates, then call the stats final. I won't be making any changes after signups open, so that'll be on the 4th at the latest. I aim for the 1st, though, since I have to go back to work on the 2nd.

Yes but in R48 Zik had an average A/C of 429 and a D/C of 439.
R47 has: A/C 400 and a D/C 428.
R49 even: A/C 425 A/C and 440 D/C
R46: A/C 458 D/C 507
Your Stats have: A/C of 503 and a D/C of 391

Actually We haven't had a set of Zik stats with a D/C under 400 in atleast the past 20 rounds.

Thats a VERY big difference + 100 A/C and - 50 D/C Considering that every other race has gotten buffs to there A/C including Xan and Cath theres no way zik will be able to compete with a under 400 D/C.
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Unread 31 Dec 2012, 01:34   #125
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Thats a VERY big difference + 100 A/C and - 50 D/C Considering that every other race has gotten buffs to there A/C including Xan and Cath theres no way zik will be able to compete with a under 400 D/C.
Not exactly sure why you think Xan's armour got buffed - it's paper thin in beta stats.
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Unread 31 Dec 2012, 20:08   #126
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Cath Having 490 Average A/C and Xan if they really had paper thin Armor would have close to 300 armor instead 340 isn't paper thin its just normal.

that makes Zik only 50 points over Xan armor and consider that Xan D/C is 394 which is actually higher than Zik D/C and they ALL fire 1st. Right now i see that zik have no actuall fire power except for 2 ships Thief and Pirate(which i think has too much).

But what ever its Already to late for anything to change. Stats are 99.9% final baring Appoco's Changes.
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Unread 31 Dec 2012, 20:35   #127
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I see no reason why Appoco would be making any changes to my stats. He certainly hasn't mentioned it, so it would be an unpleasant surprise.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 31 Dec 2012, 22:07   #128
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

r48 Xan had 375 a/c, r49 they had 383, in Beta they have 337. When we want offensive stats, it's better to have high armour so you can suffer a few more losses for those roids (and it takes more to stop attackers from landing).

Cath's armour is definitely higher than usual and needed, I wouldn't mind seeing it lowered a bit, though Cath's armour isn't as important as they 'fire' first; in most cases they either die hard or not at all.

Currently I think Xan is a little weak, considering it either just dies first (Fi vs Ranger) or relies on mass t2 (Ghost vs Bs).
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Unread 31 Dec 2012, 22:51   #129
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I've had surprisingly few comments regarding Cat. As a consequence, I've tweaked that part of the stats the least. Not opposed to taking some of their armor away from them. Plaguuu voiced his concern that both Cat Co and Zik Co are worse than their Cr/Bs counterparts (Viper & Scorpion vs only Roach and Corsair & Cutlass vs only Rogue, primarily), so I might fix both issues at the same time.

As for Xan: yes, it does look like their average effs are a bit lower than what we're used to:
Code:
R  A/C D/C Sum
47 389 366 755
48 375 439 814
49 397 442 839
50 337 395 732
I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing (cloak compensates for a lot, after all), but I'm not opposed to raising it in a few places (Vsharrak, Pulsar and Bolt Thrower come to mind). Don't expect the sum of the effs to pass the r47 ones, though. I may also nerf the Ranger's armor a tad more.

The Ghost is alright, in my opinion. Even at T2, it packs quite a punch, thanks to it firing first at everything. Wyvern, Peacekeeper, Roach and Broker are all decent against Xan De, but the Rogue is the only Cr/Bs class ship that clearly beats it. I might even lower the Ghost's ERes a bit to give Cat and Etd a better shot at it.

I'm also likely going to be improving the Clipper and making the Pirate a bit better against Cat and a bit worse against Etd. Also, any thoughts on moving the Cutlass to init 6 with lower effs, with the Pegasus at init 5 and unchanged effs?
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 1 Jan 2013, 01:55   #130
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I agree that Cat Co is very unappealing to me compared to Cr, this is mainly because all other races have both a De and a Fi/Co shooting Co (and I expect both will be equally prevalent), while Cr can more easily focus on one of the two ships and hit the appropriate race.


The main issue I have with Xan's armour is the Thief. It is way too easy to get a big fat ~150% valuesteal out of them.

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Unread 1 Jan 2013, 15:36   #131
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Honestly, this is all pretty straightforward.

ERes boosted across the board to nerf Cat. Cat Arm also nerfed.

Xan effs improved.

Zik ERes improved. Cutlass now fires before all De except Pegasus, though I made it a bit weaker to compensate. The Thief has a new name, that captures its nature way better.

Merchant and Interceptor nerfed to improve Etd Fr. Ranger Arm nerfed to punish crashes more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete list of changes
Harpy: Arm 19 -> 18, ERes 82 -> 80
Pegasus: ERes 82 -> 83, Dmg 69 -> 67, Init 6 -> 5
Drake: ERes 87 -> 88, Dmg 74 -> 72
Dragon: Arm 656 -> 644, Dmg 350 -> 343, Cost 11000 -> 10800

Spider: Arm 9 -> 8
Locust: ERes 75 -> 74
Roach: Guns: 10 -> 9, Arm 110 -> 113
Tarantula: Arm 130 -> 118
Scorpion: Arm 249 -> 240

Vsharrak: Arm 3 -> 4, Dmg 4 -> 5, Cost 102 -> 123, ERes 28 -> 34
Pulsar: Arm 4 -> 5, Dmg 5 -> 6, Cost 123 -> 144, ERes 33 -> 43
Bolt Thrower: Arm 13 -> 15
Ghost: ERes 56 -> 53
Peacekeeper: Dmg 146 -> 144

Corsair: Cost 185 -> 188
Cutlass: Init 7 -> 6, Dmg 14 -> 13, Dmg 11 -> 10
Thief: Name Thief -> Inforza, ERes 79 -> 80, Dmg 19 -> 18
Clipper: Arm 82 -> 80, Dmg 57 -> 60
Rogue: ERes 78 -> 79
Pirate: Cost 7000 -> 6000, Arm 350 -> 300, Dmg 350 -> 295, ERes 86 -> 84

Merchant: Merchant Arm 9 -> 8
Interceptor: Arm 8 -> 7, Cost 137 -> 133, ERes 47 -> 45
Ranger: Arm 20 -> 19
Dealer: ERes 70 -> 72, Dmg 36 -> 34
Broker: ERes 48 -> 45
P.S. Not yet final.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 1 Jan 2013 at 22:09. Reason: vsh typo
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Unread 1 Jan 2013, 20:02   #132
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

For one I don't think I'm able to predict what racecombos most alliances will be going, everything seems more or less viable. Comes down to preferences really. Racewise I don't like cath, I'm not a "cath man" though.
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Unread 2 Jan 2013, 19:54   #133
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I'm currently working on my last changes. I'll call them final later tonight.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 2 Jan 2013, 20:35   #134
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Ter Bs ERes up. The size changes are to fine tune the ERes, I did not change the A/C or D/C on them.

Viper D/C up. A/C and ERes unchanged.

I increased the Locust size to make it easier to flak it with other De. A/C and D/C have been left unchanged as much as possible.

Rogue eff up a little. Pillager made a bit smaller, also without A/C or D/C changes.

Dealer a bit more efficient against Cat Co, even with the Viper change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete list of changes
Pegasus: ERes 83 -> 82
Wyvern: Arm 585 -> 598, Dmg 255 -> 260, Cost 9000 -> 9200, ERes 88 -> 89
Dragon: Arm 644 -> 669, Dmg 343 -> 356, Cost 10800 -> 11200, ERes 91 -> 92
Leviathan: ERes 87 -> 88
Behemoth: ERes 59 -> 60

Viper: Arm 13 -> 12, Cost 258 -> 240, ERes 65 -> 62
Locust: Arm 70 -> 93, Dmg 40 -> 53, Cost 1200 -> 1600, ERes 74 -> 81

Fireblade: ERes 42 -> 44
Ghost: ERes 53 -> 51
Vampyre: ERes 41 -> 43
Haunt: ERes 5 -> 0

Rogue: Dmg 180 -> 185
Pirate: ERes 84 -> 85
Pillager: Arm 260 -> 235, Dmg 280 -> 252, Cost 6100 -> 5500

Dealer: ERes 70 -> 75
Really, really, really final
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 2 Jan 2013 at 21:59.
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Unread 2 Jan 2013, 21:36   #135
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

\o/
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Unread 3 Jan 2013, 16:09   #136
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Final complaint, then: I don't like that normal ships/pods cost more M/C/E for Ter/Cat/Zik, respectively (just pods for Ter, obv.).


Thanks for the work, mz.
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Unread 3 Jan 2013, 18:31   #137
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Final complaint, then: I don't like that normal ships/pods cost more M/C/E for Ter/Cat/Zik, respectively (just pods for Ter, obv.).


Thanks for the work, mz.
Norm ships should cost more metal imo
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Unread 3 Jan 2013, 18:41   #138
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I created them that way before I realized it wasn't the normal state of affairs. By that point, I didn't really see the point of changing them again.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 12:38   #139
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I love these stats. U can do MASSIVE valuesteals as zik in attack.

ALMOST want to play next round properly

I do hope u realise this will lead to cheating though... Hard to proove someone sleeping / being inactive or leaving ships in base on purpose.
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 12:51   #140
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

I created them this way specifically to get you to play again.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 13:40   #141
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I love these stats. U can do MASSIVE valuesteals as zik in attack.

ALMOST want to play next round properly

I do hope u realise this will lead to cheating though... Hard to proove someone sleeping / being inactive or leaving ships in base on purpose.
I'll sign up and build xan ships for u! <3
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 13:49   #142
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Now I just need Foxman to get me Beetle escort, and we are good to go!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 18:16   #143
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Apparently Wishamster's little hole in the stats was one many people felt shouldn't be there. I was hesitant to make any more changes, especially after I said that they were "Really, really, really final" (curse my lack of foresight), but having sought some feedback, it appears most people think it's OK for me to make the following changes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yet another set of changes
Fireblade: ERes 44 -> 48
Ghost: ERes 51 -> 56
Vampyre: ERes 43 -> 47
Inforza: Dmg 18 -> 16, Arm 22 -> 23
Cutlass: Arm 13 -> 14
My most sincere apologies for the late hour.

I'll call them final again, but...
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 19:10   #144
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Apparently Wishamster's little hole in the stats was one many people felt shouldn't be there. I was hesitant to make any more changes, especially after I said that they were "Really, really, really final" (curse my lack of foresight), but having sought some feedback, it appears most people think it's OK for me to make the following changes:


My most sincere apologies for the late hour.

I'll call them final again, but...
Tsk. Amateur. That's not a late change...
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 19:19   #145
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Signups haven't even opened pal, change em all ya want!
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 19:24   #146
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Apparently Wishamster's little hole in the stats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
The main issue I have with Xan's armour is the Thief. It is way too easy to get a big fat ~150% valuesteal out of them.
Why does Wishmaster always get all the attention?
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 21:38   #147
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Pheromones.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 4 Jan 2013, 23:31   #148
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

He knew I would actually "exploit" it

DAMN you mz! And damn myself for mentioning it. Guess its idletime then
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Quote:
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 7 Jan 2013, 11:29   #149
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

are stats on manual final/current set ? and is it intentional for cat to have no anti cr ships?
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Unread 7 Jan 2013, 11:30   #150
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Re: mz' R50 Stats

Quote:
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are stats on manual final/current set ? and is it intentional for cat to have no anti cr ships?
Yes, and what about the Locust? De -> CR
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