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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 06:10   #1
Aryn
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fat disease?

right. i just wanted to have a quick little rant and made sure that everyone is aware that having a disease is NOT a valid excuse to being fat.
while a disease 'may' make you predisposed to coming fat (i used a big word and may not have used it correctly.. ) i do not believe that a disease would be the reason you are fat.

i'm fat cause i'm lazy. that's my excuse and will always be. if i had a 'fat disease' i would be moving a lot more to avoid getting fat.

this rant is c/o my assistant manager who yesterday said she can't lose weight because she has a disease. and because she's my boss i couldn't scream BULLSHIT and point out that perhaps drinking coke all day long, eating mcdonalds for breakfast and lunch, and snacking on chocolate bars all day MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.

anyway. what do you think of people who use the disease excuse?
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 06:28   #2
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Re: fat disease?

eating junkood i put on maybe a stone and can loose it again simply by eating moderatly sensibly for a couple of weeks. i'm pretty much perpetually hungry.

while that may seem rather irrelevant, i doubt i could be 'fat' unless i tried really hard. as such, i'd imagine there are people who have the same problem with being thin.

basically, it's a return on effort isn't it. for me, i'm thin 'cus it's no effort. for someone who doesn't have that much trouble loosing weight then they'll probably think it's worth it. for someone who finds it really hard to loose weight then it may not be worth it. therefore, i think having a 'fat disease' may be a contributing factor to being fat, as it shifts the balance of what's worth bothering with.

was that in any way coherant? probably not.
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Last edited by mist; 29 Jan 2005 at 06:29. Reason: trying to make sense. honest.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 06:31   #3
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Re: fat disease?

I don't like it when people use disease as an excuse not to take responsibility for themselves and/or their actions. Like when clepto's get away with stealing, and lepars get away with littering.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 06:36   #4
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Re: fat disease?

yes i know thin people who can eat anything and not gain weight.
but they also move a tad more, or at least that's what i've seemed to notice.

my assistant manager doesn't move. in fact she tries to sit down all day at work. now i admit that after having a cushy computer job most of the year, and it was hard for me to switch to a standing/moving around all day job. but i did it. and i did it by not wimping out and sitting down every two minutes. my feet hurt like hell at first and now i can stand up all day without a problem. and i'm losing weight too. (shocker i know)
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 06:45   #5
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Re: fat disease?

for the past week, my excercise regime has involved walking to the fridge and standing in the shower.

i do fidget incessantly tho, so that may be why i don't put on weight.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 06:50   #6
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Re: fat disease?

although pancreatic disorders, gall bladder diseases and the like, for one is diabetes (specially acute cases) will literally boost you to a state of obesity - also most kidney diseases, without the proper "filtering" of bodily fluids will cause the body to gain a lot of weight
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 06:57   #7
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Re: fat disease?

so walk more.
it's not an excuse to be fat :\
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 07:14   #8
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Re: fat disease?

at what point does the extra effort in walking mean it's not worth being slim?
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 07:17   #9
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Re: fat disease?

when its not working, i guess..
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 07:21   #10
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Re: fat disease?

well for me it's a mixture of no motivation and i'm comfortable with my body the way it is. i don't 'care' too much that i'm fat.
i would never use a disease as an excuse because if i was to become fatter than i am right now i'd force myself to lose some weight. if a disease means more walking than normal, so be it.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 12:24   #11
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Re: fat disease?

An experiment was done recently (results published yesterday) that has shown that slim people move around more than fat people. Even when it comes to fidgetting whilst watching TV, slim people move around while fat people just slouch.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 12:26   #12
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
at what point does the extra effort in walking mean it's not worth being slim?
When it starts to rain.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 12:53   #13
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Re: fat disease?

Causality is a tricky concept. I think a nice comparison is with people who complain that their opportunities in life were limited compared to other people's (in terms of education and qualifications let's say) but don't put any substantial effort into creating their own opportunities. Of course it's more difficult for some than others but maybe others find other things more difficult. Hay I spent two hours trying to chat up a girl last night to fail poorly only to see a friend of mine get laid with less effort than I put into getting out of bed. Life isn't fair guys
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 13:04   #14
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Re: fat disease?

Certain diseases will make you fat and there isnt too much you can do about that. Diabetes can do that, although there is some debate as to whether diabetes causes obesity or obesity causes diabetes. Having
defects in your LDL receptor wont help you lose wieght either and if you have Leptin receptor inactivity you are going to blow up to the size of a whale. On the whole though most fat people dont have these problems.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 14:56   #15
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Re: fat disease?

People complaining that they are fat and yet make no effort to do anything about it is equally as annoying, in my opinion, as people blaming their weight on factors outside of their control. There is more than one factor, as I think everybody here agrees on!

However, my main gripe is when fat people throw the big one in your face (not literally) by stating that, wait for it wait for it...., "Big is Beautiful". Well actually NO IT BLOODY WELL ISN'T. Beauty is NOT only skin deep. Of course you could never stay with a woman who was stunning to look at but had no personality, but you wouldn't even try with a woman who came out with rubbish sentiments like that!

Fat people who say that they can't go down the gym and do some exercise because they would look stupid just don't get it either. If I were to see someone who was overweight down the gym I'd respect them for trying to get rid of it. I would think well of them. People who come out with the kind of drivel only lazy people can come out with to explain why they should stay being lazy despite the obvious hideous consequences really do need to have themselves forced to sit all day on a beach looking at fat people going about wearing a bikini that happens to have lost its top. Why do they do it?! We don't want to bloody well see their 'curvy bodies' or their 'well rounded hips' while tanning ourselves.

Sorry for that, I got a little bit carried away!
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:08   #16
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Re: fat disease?

wow, i got neg repped for having an opinion. by someone who didn't even post on this thread. if you would like to call me narrow minded then at least give an effort to try and enlighten me. you'll find i have quite the open mind if the opportunity is there.

now jc has a point which has made me rethink my point of view on this topic, however a fault in your LDL receptors isn't exactly a disease now is it?

now maybe i should reiterate my stance on this. i will consent that a disease 'may' cause you to gain more weight than normal. but i don't believe 'i have a disease' is an excuse when you don't make any effort whatsoever to lose the weight. my assistant manager for example. i wasn't exaggerating or making things up. my typical day at work with her is i come to the store in the morning, she's eating mcdonalds. then later she gets a coke. then she gets lunch which is most likely mcdonalds, then later she gets another coke and a chocolate bar, all day long she sits in the back doing 'paperwork' that funnily enough takes the manager about 10 mins total to do. yes maybe she has a disease... but saying 'i can't lose weight because of it' without even making an effort is what i'm saying is wrong. if she was going to the gym constantly, stopped with teh coke and mcdonalds, and made an effort to eat healthy, and she still wasn't losing weight, then yes she could use her disease as an excuse.

does this make better sense than my previous posts?
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:28   #17
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Re: fat disease?

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Hay I spent two hours trying to chat up a girl last night to fail poorly only to see a friend of mine get laid with less effort than I put into getting out of bed. Life isn't fair guys
*ouch - life's a bitch, whatareyougonna do huh?
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:36   #18
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Re: fat disease?

i now one guy who is disabled. he is fat cause he will never have the feeling of being full.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:41   #19
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Re: fat disease?

ok but that's not a disease. it's a disability. an odd one which i think sucks for him, but could he not watch the quantities he's eating or move around more (assuming he can?)
i'll admit that never feeling quite 'full' would be a hard one to combat, because no matter what he does he'll still feel hungry. but i think there's still some room there to adjust.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:48   #20
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
ok but that's not a disease. it's a disability. an odd one which i think sucks for him, but could he not watch the quantities he's eating or move around more (assuming he can?)
i'll admit that never feeling quite 'full' would be a hard one to combat, because no matter what he does he'll still feel hungry. but i think there's still some room there to adjust.
there was a programme on it earlier this week, can't remember the exact name of the disease but was something like pradi-williams disease. Basically, they can eat as much as they want but they'll always be hungry.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:51   #21
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Re: fat disease?

prada-willi sybdrome.

I am amazed frankly by the lack of tolerance shown.

what disgustingly shallow people we have become if someone else being fat and therefore in our eyes 'not pretty' is enough for us to hate that person with such vehemence.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:54   #22
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbondigo
Basically, they can eat as much as they want but they'll always be hungry.
it sucks when you get to the point where your stomach hurts and you're still hungry :/
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 17:58   #23
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
prada-willi sybdrome.

I am amazed frankly by the lack of tolerance shown.

what disgustingly shallow people we have become if someone else being fat and therefore in our eyes 'not pretty' is enough for us to hate that person with such vehemence.

who's talking about hate? i certainly don't hate these people (doing so would be hypocritical of me anyway) but i just don't understand them i guess.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:01   #24
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
who's talking about hate? i certainly don't hate these people (doing so would be hypocritical of me anyway) but i just don't understand them i guess.
perhaps it might be wiser in future to do a little research before you rant.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:03   #25
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Re: fat disease?

i ranted here in the hopes that someone could enlighten me.
and i still never said i hated anyone. i said i don't believe it's an excuse. i'm allowed my own opinion. it's open to anyone who wants to try and change it.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:05   #26
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
i'm allowed my own opinion.
just because you're allowed your own opinion, doesn't mean your opinion isnt utterly moronic.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:07   #27
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Re: fat disease?

and instead of just trying to insult me i'd prefer you at least attempt to explain why.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:08   #28
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
and instead of just trying to insult me i'd prefer you at least attempt to explain why.
go google for prader-willi
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:08   #29
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
and instead of just trying to insult me i'd prefer you at least attempt to explain why.
a) diseases do exist which make you fat
b) syndromes which last for a lifetime exist which make you fat
c) there is nothing wrong with being fat.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:10   #30
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Re: fat disease?

She isnt saying theres anything wrong with being fat - using " i have a disease" as an excuse when they`re just being lazy however is.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:17   #31
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Re: fat disease?

i'm being called a moron yet it's you people who aren't reading my posts.
i admitted quite a few posts ago that i was wrong and there are diseases, disabilities, and i'll add syndromes after yahwe's post ( i'm thinking just saying 'diseases' in my first post was too vague and i consent to your arguments) exist which can make you fat, however my argument is that i don't believe they should be the sole excuse for being fat. i even gave an example of my assitant manager. yes ok a disease causes you to be fat, but do you not think your eating/excersise habits are also a contributing factor? in her case yes they are. therefore her excuse of 'i have a disease therefore i'm fat' doesn't fly with me. if she said 'i have a disease AND i can't be bothered to eat properly/excersise and that's why i'm fat' then ok.

and yes i will go look up prada-willis on google because until today i had never heard of it and i would like to know more.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:17   #32
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
She isnt saying theres anything wrong with being fat - using " i have a disease" as an excuse when they`re just being lazy however is.
Yes, but the first thing she said in this thread was that having a disease is NOT a valid reason for being fat. If they're lazy and fat, that's their concern and no one elses really.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:26   #33
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Re: fat disease?

yes, that was the first thing i said, which i have also admitted was wrong. i should have explained myself more clearly as to what i meant, and i didn't really realize at the time i was being to vague.

anyway. i've just read this site and i didn't realize when the disease was first mentioned that there was a mental retardation envolved and the people with the disease can't really stop themselves from eating (that's the impression i got, i've still got a few more sites to check out).
this site however does indicate that with help of family and health professionals, obesity can be prevented.

anyway, i'm gonna read a couple more sites.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:28   #34
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
yes, that was the first thing i said, which i have also admitted was wrong. i should have explained myself more clearly as to what i meant, and i didn't really realize at the time i was being to vague.

anyway. i've just read this site and i didn't realize when the disease was first mentioned that there was a mental retardation envolved and the people with the disease can't really stop themselves from eating (that's the impression i got, i've still got a few more sites to check out).
this site however does indicate that with help of family and health professionals, obesity can be prevented.

anyway, i'm gonna read a couple more sites.
most of them end uup in asylums. it requires 24 hour control to stop them eating, its not mental retardation, they feel constantly hungry.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:33   #35
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
now jc has a point which has made me rethink my point of view on this topic, however a fault in your LDL receptors isn't exactly a disease now is it?
It's a genetic disease.

I agree in general with what you are saying. I have several friends who are vastly overweight and moan about it yet do nothing about it. One in particular eats constantly, wont eat/drink anything diet/low fat etc, and he is training to be a doctor. If he was my doc and advised me to lose weight i dont think i'ld be able to keep a straight face. As far as i know he has no genetic predisposition to gain weight.

As for Prada-Willi syndrome i would guess it is to do with Leptin and the Leptin receptor seeing as they regulate how hungry you feel.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:38   #36
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Re: fat disease?

PWS is a complex genetic disorder that includes short stature, mental retardation or learning disabilities, incomplete sexual development, characteristic behavior problems, low muscle tone, and an involuntary urge to eat constantly, which, coupled with a reduced need for calories, leads to obesity.



but yes you're right, this is a disorder in where the person can't really control the weight and it's up to others to help them with it.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 18:47   #37
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Re: fat disease?

well idi. as i've just learned here, prader-willis isn't a life choice. it's not an 'excuse' for being overweight, it's a very valid reason.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 20:05   #38
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
ok but that's not a disease. it's a disability. an odd one which i think sucks for him, but could he not watch the quantities he's eating or move around more (assuming he can?)
it would be far more important for him to practice some discipline, but since he is mentally disabled, he really didnt care (which is great how i think, besides that it sucks for his health).
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 20:43   #39
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Re: fat disease?

Most decisions are based on cost-benefit analysis, whether consciously or not. If you're fat then it's generally because you think the cost of losing weight outweighs the benefits that it's going to bring. If you have certain diseases (or poor genetics) then the 'cost' is going to be a lot higher, which may make you decide against it. Someone with no physiological problems and average genetics may be able to lose weight with only a medium amount of effort, whereas for someone else it may involve significant amounts of pain and suffering. Ultimately it's up to the individual to decide what he thinks is best, and to live with that choice.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 21:37   #40
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Re: fat disease?

I'm not sure how to reply to this thread. I simply don't understand why people need to make excuses for being overweight. At all. It is not something people need apologise for.

Aryn I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'disease' because everything anyone has mentioned you have said - that's not really a disease. So what is a disease? There are medical conditions which make some people predisosed to put on weight more easily that 'normal' people. The same medical conditions then make it extremely difficult for these same people to lose weight simply by diet and exercise.

I understand what you are trying to say though. There are thousands of people out there who could probably lose weight if they really wanted to. But they don't have the inclination or the willpower or the something. I know people who feel the need to justify the fact that they are overweight will all manner of excuses. I don't have a problem with this. Frankly I would get sick of people telling me that I could lose weight if I made the effort, I'm not surprised sometimes that people do make excuses just to shut others up. People can be extremely judgemental, they assume you are lazy and spend all day lounging on the sofa eating chocolate and crisps. Personally I feel no need to make excuses. I am overweight, I don't particularly know why - I always have been. It doesn't bother me, I am perfectly happy the way I am and the people who know me best know this and don't make an issue of it.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 22:16   #41
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL-9000
People complaining that they are fat and yet make no effort to do anything about it is equally as annoying, in my opinion, as people blaming their weight on factors outside of their control. There is more than one factor, as I think everybody here agrees on!

However, my main gripe is when fat people throw the big one in your face (not literally) by stating that, wait for it wait for it...., "Big is Beautiful". Well actually NO IT BLOODY WELL ISN'T. Beauty is NOT only skin deep. Of course you could never stay with a woman who was stunning to look at but had no personality, but you wouldn't even try with a woman who came out with rubbish sentiments like that!

Fat people who say that they can't go down the gym and do some exercise because they would look stupid just don't get it either. If I were to see someone who was overweight down the gym I'd respect them for trying to get rid of it. I would think well of them. People who come out with the kind of drivel only lazy people can come out with to explain why they should stay being lazy despite the obvious hideous consequences really do need to have themselves forced to sit all day on a beach looking at fat people going about wearing a bikini that happens to have lost its top. Why do they do it?! We don't want to bloody well see their 'curvy bodies' or their 'well rounded hips' while tanning ourselves.

Sorry for that, I got a little bit carried away!

"Sexiness" is linked to a number of socio-economic factors-

For example, today in Ethopia and a few hundred years ago in Europe- the populations were suffering from a food shortage. Being "Fat" was a sign of wealth and status, it was damn sexy.

Yet today, when we have a huge food surplus [western world etc.]- we turn to other things to display our success- fast cars, big homes, expensive phones etc. the health consequences of being "fat" have been publicised and hence it is [rightly so] perceived as an undesirable condition.

But that does not mean that you need to treat "fat" people this way. Imagine if somebody who had a "fat disease" [to be discussed in my next post THEY DO EXSIST] read this- they receive this kind of crap all the time- imagine high school for them; the public humiliation. They probably already suffer from lowered self-esteem.

I find our present emphasis on physcial appearance disgusting. Yes, as primates,good looks were the best ways to display physical fitness and health- the most desirable mating partners. have we really advanced socially, morally and ethical so little- in fact degressed to the stage where Walmart selss bras for 10 year old girls? They feel so pressurised to reach physical maturity and desirability that they wear these without actually wearing them? Do you all so willing lap up the images and concepts you are fed on a daily basis?

http://www.swedauk.org/disorders/acrisp2.htm

What about the other end of the spectrum? What about those who suffer from this pressure??? It is devasting, that they will so willingly disregard their health to conform to the petty demands society places on them. The depression, worry, self-loathing they experience- how could you wish it on anyone? and why has this come about? Because of self-centred, insonsiderate people like you.

Most of these sufferers are women. Beautiful, caring , compassionate women- if there was ever a God, women were his finest work, and you make them bear the brunt of your petty mis-conceptions.

I am genuinely disgusted by this, I cannot begin to explain how much- have more consideration for those around- don't be so selfish, vain and shallow.

And Aryn, yes you may have your own opinion- you are entitled to, yet there are times when you should not share it- say when somebody may take some serious hurt from it.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 22:26   #42
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 22:26   #43
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Re: fat disease?

Well,
www.nature.com/ijo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/pdf/0802830a.pdf

Need i say more?
There are many disorders, which indirectly or directly can lead to your body processing fatty acids in an irregular way, affecting insulin levels, a natural disposition relating to how your body stores fatty acids etc.

Though my big problem is with some of the perceptions and opinions here.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 22:32   #44
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Re: fat disease?

Most fat people, however, are not fat as a result of a disease. The whole talk of 'fat disease' is yet another symptom of the "hey let's use verbs as nouns!" nonsense that has been plaguing the psychiatric community for the last 50 years.
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Unread 29 Jan 2005, 22:38   #45
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Most fat people, however, are not fat as a result of a disease. The whole talk of 'fat disease' is yet another symptom of the "hey let's use verbs as nouns!" nonsense that has been plaguing the psychiatric community for the last 50 years.
As per my previous post-

My big problem is with [insert appropiate quote from insensitive *@!**& here].
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Unread 30 Jan 2005, 01:42   #46
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Re: fat disease?

Aryn has a point, she just started out badly :/

As a whole our culture is moving away from an internal locus of control towards an external one, and yes, it's annoying that people only ever seem to want to be accountable when it greatly increases others positive perception of them.
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Unread 30 Jan 2005, 04:31   #47
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Re: fat disease?

Thermodude. You seem to have misunderstood my post entirely. At no point did I insult people for being overweight. I insulted people who are fat who have attitudes as I stated. People who moan about being overweight or people who go around shouting about how great it is that they are overweight (big is beautiful statement) and make absolutely no effort regarding losing their weight. I am actually quite offended that you could just skim over what I said and start shouting your mouth off at me with clearly no understanding of what I said. I take it you chose to ignore the part I said about how I respect overweight people who, say, go to the gym and at least put in effort? Strange that. Next time before screaming out about what someone says make sure you actually read what they say properly.

Me insensitive? No. Dyou not understand that I stated that sexiness is down to more than looks? Were you SO wanting to find someone to shout at that you completely ignored the fact that I didn't say you wouldn't try it with a fat person, but that I said you wouldn't try it with a fat person with an attitude that says "Hey I dont care about myself and am not going to bother trying to make myself healthier or more physically attractive"?

I am, in fact, appauled that you could so misinterperet my post and even go as far as negative repping me for it. What I said was my own opinion and at no point did I insult anything other than overweight peoples attitudes.I even mentioned that it wouldn't matter if a person were attractive and had a bad attitude - it would have the same effect. You claim that most overweight women are caring and compassionate - on what grounds do you make this claim? Are you suggesting that overweight people are better people than, say, underweight people? I have known many HORRIBLE overweight people, who were so not due to my attitude towards them as I, as you may or may not understand, would never go out of my way to offend anybody. The only reason ANYONE should be offended by my post is if they themselves has an attitude towards themselves and others that is negative.

People can be nice, nasty, rude, polite - any number of mentalities. It doesn't matter whether they are overweight or not. Do you really place so much emphasis on physical appearance rather than personality?!

I really hope you one day learn not to shout your mouth off without first realising what you are opposing.
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Unread 30 Jan 2005, 04:37   #48
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Re: fat disease?

In reference to thermo's first post who exactly finds a big car sexy? I've always taken sexy to refer to more personal characteristics than material accessories.

This runs into a problem though because I'd say make-up and clothes counts towards sexiness. Maybe it'd be better defined as non-body-related attributes.

What an appalling word.
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Unread 30 Jan 2005, 22:06   #49
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Question Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
In reference to thermo's first post who exactly finds a big car sexy?
Poor people?
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Unread 30 Jan 2005, 22:59   #50
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Re: fat disease?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
In reference to thermo's first post who exactly finds a big car sexy? I've always taken sexy to refer to more personal characteristics than material accessories.
.
girls don't like boys girls like cars and money
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