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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 17:22   #101
dda
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Re: vile despicable people

It might also be pointed out that the people hounded out of business raised guinea pigs. They sold the little darlings who would never have had a breath or life except for the guinea pig whore house which they ran.
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 17:22   #102
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Re: vile despicable people

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Then everyone who thinks that animal rights individual are demented should rise up in arms and kill all of the ****ers? Yes thinking you are right about something should give you the right to kill, maim and terrorize, clearly! To hell with civilization. If my friends and I think it is right then slaughter those who oppose on every subject.

At least I think you would have solved over population.
Well, of course not. Not a right to kill or maim, althought I can support that in certain instances. I won't cry if a specialofficer of the guardia civil is killed by the ETA, nor if a American soldier dies in Iraq. However, for me to kill a politican or farmer would be way to hardcore, as these sitautions are not extreme. However, I belive in direct action, and that sometimes involves "violence", at least against property. I wont support a animalrighter that kills a farmer, but releasing the animals and then torch the place is in my eyes okay. Or squatters figting of police. Or youths smashing MacDonalds. Or antifas chasing away nazies.

Violence, if it's the only way to change things, are in my eyes okay. If violence had not been used, by the early capitalists and the early labourunions, we would probably all live in monarchies. Nobody in power is willing to give anway anything, and I refuse to live in this society and not try to change it for the better. If violence is the best way to pressure the people in power into following what I think is right, then I will gladly use it. I know it's arrogant. I know it's bullshit. But I'm sick and tired of fascists in the streets, policebrutality and statefunded racism, I'm sick and tired of capitalism, pollution for profit and disregard for youths.
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 17:27   #103
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Re: vile despicable people

And somehow you think this violence will make life better?
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 17:38   #104
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Re: vile despicable people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmdr_Cyrax
As someone with a genetic condition which is being researched using animal testing, I would like to say that the animal-rights protesters are hypocrites of the highest order.
Then surely research designed to benefit you should be done on you?

How is your life worth more than theirs when I guess through your condition you are hoping their healthy life can improve your poor health? You should give animals a little more respect.
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 17:51   #105
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Re: vile despicable people

yes, because obviously if you tested on humans their life cycle and mutation state is short enough to show you the results you need...
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 17:58   #106
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Re: vile despicable people

Since improvement is the only result we are after, it would be very easy and quick to detect if any sort of treatment/drugs were working, eh? It wouldnt take years of animal tests and then 10 years of human trials thats for sure.
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 18:06   #107
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Re: vile despicable people

Crash
Is it all life or just mammal life that deserves this respect?
Microbes are life, plants are life, why is their life worth any less than animal life?
Do you have a consistent position on abortion?
What about euthenasia?
Who and what deserve to live and why are arbitrary lines and are not really defensible on the basis of logic, only emotion.
So, although the overwhelming majority of the human race is okay with the mistreatment of animals in certain situations you feel that a self-righteous group of individuals is glorious for attacking the livlihood of some poor farmer because the product he produces is put to a use you don't like.

Do you think that what they accomplished will rally people to the animal rights cause? If you do you are wrong. It only causes a backlash. People still empathize with people. Acts such as this probably don't make things worse for animals, but they certainly don't make things better for them. If you are trying to change the world you are better off to put your cause in a positive light. You also need to consider the culture where the acts are committed. It makes a big difference. Suicide bombers may go over well in some parts of the world but are not likely to be a big hit in others, as an example.
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 18:17   #108
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Re: vile despicable people

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
Then surely research designed to benefit you should be done on you?
More invasive proceedures need to be performed first.
Biopsies are taken but there is only so much information you can gleen from and incomplete organism, and if you are suggesting performing invasive proceedures on live human being to spare animals, take another look at the pic and see if you get it then '

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
How is your life worth more than theirs when I guess through your condition you are hoping their healthy life can improve your poor health? You should give animals a little more respect.
What?
Does this even make sense?
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Unread 26 Aug 2005, 20:13   #109
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Re: vile despicable people

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashTester
Since improvement is the only result we are after, it would be very easy and quick to detect if any sort of treatment/drugs were working, eh? It wouldnt take years of animal tests and then 10 years of human trials thats for sure.
This is all very well in your idealised simplistic world. But sadly science isn't quite as simple as that. Scientists don't just "find" drugs and suddenly realise, "Hang on a minute, this drug works as a fantastic cure for cancer!".

Now, I have no knowledge or experience of these matters, but I can imagine there's a hell of a lot more work goes into a drug than just testing if it works. First, random chemicals will be tried against different viruses/bacteria to see what effect, if any, they have. Some might cause the virus to die, some might cause it to multiply, some might cause it to mutate and turn the host into a zombie. The point is we don't know what half the stuff will do.

So once we find a chemical is particularly effective against something, you could perhaps try joining it with different chemicals to see what effect the joint compound will have. Again, some will have positive effects and some won't.

Eventually, you can refine these so much, and get to a stage where you can say "Yes, this chemical is effective against this disease and the creatures show no noticeable side effects." At THAT point, you start your human trials. That's where your "years of animal tests" come from. If we started pumping random chemicals into random people with diseases, it would be nothing short of genocide. Thousands of people would die because we would have no idea what was going to happen to them. Not to mention the fact that you could only do it to people with that particular disease, so your subjects are understandably limited unless you want to go infecting people with diseases.

I don't think anyone here would take too kindly to being admitted to hospital with cancer, being told "Well, we've no idea how to cure it, but we haven't tried this chemical yet. What they hey, let's pump you full of it and see what happens!"
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