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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 01:41   #101
Heartless
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by Villeh View Post
CT/VgN/VsN "never really hit you", but CT is "easily the most hostile alliance to Asc".
Man did you guys really have that little incoming so far this round? No wonder you are winning. You have 75 of the 150 active players left in PA, and probably 75% of the "talented" ones, you couldn't loose this round even if you tried (read: challenge!! )
Believe it or not, but yeah, we DID have an easy ride so far. And it looks like that streak will continue until the end of this round. Ashaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Villeh
Congrats Ascendancy, you deserve the win, but I bet you yourself would have enjoyed it a lot more if you had had even just a little bit of opposition
It is a bit early to congratulate us, I think. Chances are currently looking great that we win, but yeah, it is only about half of the round done. Enough time to keep on crashing etc etc.

What really annoys me is that, except for ND, I did not really witness any specific targetting of our planets. And it really rips my soul apart that we are now more or less killing ND for this round. Just because it sends a wrong sign to the rest of the player base. Basically, and what I think a lot - if not most - Ascendancy members will agree on, is that in a situation where your enemy clearly seems overwhelming you should get as much support as possible to take him down. Lately there is about no alliance left which has the balls to do so, and thus "wars" tend to get decided really early. The unwillingness of some alliances really kills the meta game involved. Why does an alliance need politics when they are never under pressure anyway?
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 02:00   #102
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by MotoX View Post
We are a training alliance so we don't have to contribute to nothing...........well for once grow some balls and do something with your member base.....

Why not, for a change show you trainees the ”face of war” ....might teach them something!?

I'm tired of you coming here hiding behind the “training, we don't have to do nothing mentality – but still criticize everyone”

(yet you been stating things like this since back in Round 3 so why change)
To put it bluntly, you are an idiot and you really need to go back to school and LEARN TO READ.

As I said in the quoted post and as I will say again the battle for #1 is not most alliances battle to be part of. Its a battle that has nothing for them to gain, their battle is instead to be #1 in their 'league' of alliances. If an alliance outside the top league thats challenging for #1 chooses to help ND in their battle then its a favour that they are doing for them and not something they need to be doing. ND's actions with this thread however do nothing to aid any alliances desire to ignore their own battles and help out because its a pompous PR statement to make ND look good while putting other alliances down and using guilt trips to get other alliances to hit Asc.

The sheer arrogance shown by yourself and the ND HC is also disgusting. You act like the be all and end all is being involved in the battle for #1, even if that means you are pretty much just being a King maker (And I know ND like alliances acting as King Makers to their own detriment, see TGV a few rounds back). The simple fact its not, there is more than one battle going on in the game and these are just as worthwhile as the battle for #1. Just because the alliances choose to fight these relevant battles rather than get involved in a battle that isn't relevant to them doesn't mean they are fence sitting or don't have any balls. If it did then every alliance fence sits in every round because there's battles all around that alliances don't join in with because its not relevant, certainly last round I didnt see you all throwing your hats in the ring of the HA/ASS/Orbit vs F-Crew battle last round did I.

Also you really should get a clue as well. Just because we dont go around ringing our own bell to look good on here when alliances do approach us doesn't mean we don't get involved.
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 03:03   #103
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Believe it or not, but yeah, we DID have an easy ride so far.

Not being in 4:10!
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 03:10   #104
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by wakey View Post
To put it bluntly, you are an idiot and you really need to go back to school and LEARN TO READ.

As I said in the quoted post and as I will say again the battle for #1 is not most alliances battle to be part of. Its a battle that has nothing for them to gain, their battle is instead to be #1 in their 'league' of alliances. If an alliance outside the top league thats challenging for #1 chooses to help ND in their battle then its a favour that they are doing for them and not something they need to be doing. ND's actions with this thread however do nothing to aid any alliances desire to ignore their own battles and help out because its a pompous PR statement to make ND look good while putting other alliances down and using guilt trips to get other alliances to hit Asc.

The sheer arrogance shown by yourself and the ND HC is also disgusting. You act like the be all and end all is being involved in the battle for #1, even if that means you are pretty much just being a King maker (And I know ND like alliances acting as King Makers to their own detriment, see TGV a few rounds back). The simple fact its not, there is more than one battle going on in the game and these are just as worthwhile as the battle for #1. Just because the alliances choose to fight these relevant battles rather than get involved in a battle that isn't relevant to them doesn't mean they are fence sitting or don't have any balls. If it did then every alliance fence sits in every round because there's battles all around that alliances don't join in with because its not relevant, certainly last round I didnt see you all throwing your hats in the ring of the HA/ASS/Orbit vs F-Crew battle last round did I.

Also you really should get a clue as well. Just because we dont go around ringing our own bell to look good on here when alliances do approach us doesn't mean we don't get involved.
puh......

I never called you an idiot, but well I consider myself well behaved/edjucated.......



To make a long story short, why don't you EVER take your alliance out for war?





p.s and please try to make the insults short because we're like here to make a diffrent, or atleast you are.....
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 08:48   #105
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles View Post
For anyone who cares:

[18:00] <Achi> !surprisesex asc
[18:00] <Munin> Top attackers on alliance Ascendancy are (total: 3388) Conspiracy - 754 | Newdawn - 650 | Vengeance - 446 | TGV - 240 | Carebears - 186

That's reported fleets only, the actual number is no doubt quite a bit higher. Also, bear in mind that a wave can have multiple fleets.
Surprisesex doesn't count waves, it counts fleets. It's also wildly inaccurate, so why anyone would put it up on the forum to make some sort of point is beyond me.
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 09:07   #106
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by wakey View Post
Its a battle that has nothing for them to gain
Wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey View Post
there is more than one battle going on in the game and these are just as worthwhile as the battle for #1.
Wrong again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey View Post
certainly last round I didnt see you all throwing your hats in the ring of the HA/ASS/Orbit vs F-Crew battle last round did I.
I'm pretty sure that if we'd had a good reason to, we would have. Think along the lines of "you help us, we help you". You didn't ask though.

You're making it seem like there is no advantage for smaller alliances to join in on the battle for #1. This is incorrect. There are high amounts of XP to be gained from landing on bigger planets, and arranging a teamup is not exactly rocket science.

The fact that you're not the main competitor can mean your attacks will have a lower defence priority. An example of this was the last night of incomings on Ascendancy. We specifically covered incomings from (I think) Denial, and let most other planets land.

Further, joining in on actual battles can give your BCs and members much needed experience in how to fight alliance wars, improving your alliance for not only this round. but further rounds as well.

That said, I don't expect you to go and beg at ND's doorstep to be allowed to help them win, and I think ND is pretty arrogant to expect otherwise.
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 09:51   #107
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Top of your own league is silly. It is the talk of a mediocre or low-scoring alliance that wants to have something to be proud of rather than nothing.

Even training alliances should aim for quality and that is not gained by hitting the smaller alliances. You aspire to improve and thus you must deal with those who know better than you, or your team in general. If you don't, you will not learn anything new apart from maybe one or two tricks they have picked up on. Since you most likely cannot successfully hit a larger alliance (incl. aftermath) you would need the help of another (larger, or better?) alliance, which in turn also brings experience and tricks to your members if you let them.

It all depends on your priorities I suppose.

That said, this post is an amusing attempt at putting coloured glasses on peoples eyes. It comes across with an air of misplaced pride and arrogance. That does not mean its not a decent statement (that in itself should be encouraged), but the timing (and scale) of it make it so that they seem to be mocking themselves more than anything. Which is too bad, really.
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 10:58   #108
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

I'm notoriously bad at remembering previous rounds. It doesn't matter if it was Denial or CT though.

Damn you Hosie!
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 13:29   #109
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by wakey View Post
To put it bluntly, you are an idiot and you really need to go back to school and LEARN TO READ.

As I said in the quoted post and as I will say again the battle for #1 is not most alliances battle to be part of. Its a battle that has nothing for them to gain, their battle is instead to be #1 in their 'league' of alliances. If an alliance outside the top league thats challenging for #1 chooses to help ND in their battle then its a favour that they are doing for them and not something they need to be doing.
Yes there is plenty for them to gain - victories and experience. Even at BlueTuba in round 4 when we had a load of newbies playing for us, I got involved on the wrong side of the Fury/Xanadu war without hesitation. The main reason was because the way our members were positioned lent itself to helping Fury, the other reason was because we were subject to pretty rubbish bully boy tactics. OK, we were on the periphery of this epic conflict, but the experience we got was invaluable, we won a little piece of the universe for ourselves and undoubtedly became a better alliance in terms of defence and resolve as a result. In fact our performance defensively in round 5 reflects that.

The best way to train people effectively is to give them top level experience and give them a chance to become top level players. I'm pretty sure we've got at least one guy in Ascendancy who switched over to us, got the experience and he's a better player as a result.

Quote:
ND's actions with this thread however do nothing to aid any alliances desire to ignore their own battles and help out because its a pompous PR statement to make ND look good while putting other alliances down and using guilt trips to get other alliances to hit Asc.
This part of your post is entirely true. This is far to do with honour, it's a recruitment post, pure and simple. As I've said i'm not opposed to this - ND could be a lot more honest about it instead of playing really bad smoke and mirrors.

Quote:
The sheer arrogance shown by yourself and the ND HC is also disgusting. You act like the be all and end all is being involved in the battle for #1, even if that means you are pretty much just being a King maker (And I know ND like alliances acting as King Makers to their own detriment, see TGV a few rounds back).
Well they are the only people instigating it unfortunately. They are the catalyst, so pretty much the 'be all and end all'.

Quote:
The simple fact its not, there is more than one battle going on in the game and these are just as worthwhile as the battle for #1.
If this was the era where there weren't alliance ranks, maybe.

Quote:
Just because the alliances choose to fight these relevant battles rather than get involved in a battle that isn't relevant to them doesn't mean they are fence sitting or don't have any balls. If it did then every alliance fence sits in every round because there's battles all around that alliances don't join in with because its not relevant, certainly last round I didnt see you all throwing your hats in the ring of the HA/ASS/Orbit vs F-Crew battle last round did I.
The shape of a round is not determined by the wars you describe - it's by the ones for #1. If there's no fight for #1, it adds up to what will most likely be seen as a boring round.

Quote:
Also you really should get a clue as well. Just because we dont go around ringing our own bell to look good on here when alliances do approach us doesn't mean we don't get involved.
Fair point.
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Unread 13 Sep 2008, 19:27   #110
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Quote:
Originally Posted by jester
Surprisesex doesn't count waves, it counts fleets. It's also wildly inaccurate, so why anyone would put it up on the forum to make some sort of point is beyond me.
I wasn't aware of Munin's sole weakness at the time of the post but it was nice to see 3 of my colleagues correcting me so quickly and publicly. No chance of a swift edit to spare your blushes in Ascendancy! There wasn't a point to the post other than to paste the only information we have available on our total inc-count (that I am aware of) for those who asked/seemed to care. Also, I did specify that it counted fleets and that there could be more than 1 fleet to a wave. You seem to want people to believe I was deliberately misleading them for some reason, which was not the case.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 01:02   #111
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Wrong.

Wrong again.

I'm pretty sure that if we'd had a good reason to, we would have. Think along the lines of "you help us, we help you". You didn't ask though.

You're making it seem like there is no advantage for smaller alliances to join in on the battle for #1. This is incorrect. There are high amounts of XP to be gained from landing on bigger planets, and arranging a teamup is not exactly rocket science.

The fact that you're not the main competitor can mean your attacks will have a lower defence priority. An example of this was the last night of incomings on Ascendancy. We specifically covered incomings from (I think) Denial, and let most other planets land.

Further, joining in on actual battles can give your BCs and members much needed experience in how to fight alliance wars, improving your alliance for not only this round. but further rounds as well.

That said, I don't expect you to go and beg at ND's doorstep to be allowed to help them win, and I think ND is pretty arrogant to expect otherwise.
You actually hit the nail on the head as to why my points are all correct when you said " You didn't ask though."

ND hasn't asked most alliances for help as far as I'm aware. They certainly haven't actually asked us to. What they have done however is make a pompous statement that makes them look like like they are doing something while guilt tripping the rest of the alliances into taking their own initiate and attacking Asc. And as I've said before and I will say again its simply not most alliances battle to take on, the duty to take this battle on is on ND, CT and probably VGN and its these alliances and only these alliances who should be taking the initiate otherwise they are fencesitting in a battle they should be involved in. As part of taking the initiative its their job to recruit any additional helped needed to be successful from the alliances who have no duty to help by approaching them with a proposal that offers mutual benefits to all.

And this is why I say there's simply no benefit for most alliances to getting involved in this battle. Falling for the guilt trip, putting your own battles to the side is doing nothing but putting the alliance in an unwinnable and potentially catastrophic situation. You are after all unlikely to gain much attacking on your own against a much stronger alliance and will just haemorrhage roids and rank to the alliances you were battling with. While other alliances may be attacking you aren't working with them as the people pulling the guilt trip don't really want help, just interference ran for them (hence why they are pretty much flatly refusing to try and work with the other challengers) and as such you are wasting time learning nothing new while driving away your members not just for this round but future rounds on a hiding to nothing that quickly losses the fun.

All ND really care about is covering their own arses, they want to be able to at the end of it stand up and say we tried. This post shifts the blame onto others and gives something to refer back to as proof BUT in reality their efforts have been half arsed. Their hopes on winning the round are tied soley on them getting lucky and guilt tripping enough alliances to hit Asc that it allows for ND to land easy and well but imho they are simply just playing for second.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 01:19   #112
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Who cares. no other alliances used the forums when they declared any war against Asc so you can hardly discredit ND for everyone elses faults!!
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 01:22   #113
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
If this was the era where there weren't alliance ranks, maybe.
Actually the era of alliance rank imho makes it even more the case. Before alliance ranks you could be the shittiest alliance in the game but if you had the contacts to get you in on the war for #1 and end up on the winning side suddenly you have a reputation as a good alliance. With alliance ranks there's something tangible to refer to and as such smaller battles have more importance.

Quote:
The shape of a round is not determined by the wars you describe - it's by the ones for #1. If there's no fight for #1, it adds up to what will most likely be seen as a boring round.
Its a shortsighted view of the game there, and its actually a view that's been a problem of PA for a long time. The quality and enjoyment of a round is subjective and is based on your experience. This means that the other wars actually shape the round as much as the battle for #1 as both are really only effect the enjoyment of the round of those that have a duty to be involved in that battle
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 01:47   #114
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by wakey View Post
Actually the era of alliance rank imho makes it even more the case. Before alliance ranks you could be the shittiest alliance in the game but if you had the contacts to get you in on the war for #1 and end up on the winning side suddenly you have a reputation as a good alliance. With alliance ranks there's something tangible to refer to and as such smaller battles have more importance.



Its a shortsighted view of the game there, and its actually a view that's been a problem of PA for a long time. The quality and enjoyment of a round is subjective and is based on your experience. This means that the other wars actually shape the round as much as the battle for #1 as both are really only effect the enjoyment of the round of those that have a duty to be involved in that battle

Wakey my dear Friend, just for my own curiousity: Did u got recruited by Asc?????

Anyways you all can talk, discuss or try to analyze this round (game) to death (sadly it looks like it though)...or try to make it a fun round afterall and challenge urselfs and those Asc dudettes...
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 02:23   #115
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Here's the real deal:

Pre-round there seemed to be a lot of talk of Asc mass recruiting because it was JBG's farewell tour. As such, other alliances (NewDawn, CT, Vengeance, Vision) all decided to take the round off and let Asc have an easy win; knowing that R29 they could all come back ready to actually play a proper round without those pesky kids from Scooby-Doo here to foil everything.

CT and ND can't work together because their acronyms don't have any vowels or some shit, and NewDawn announced they were doing something 3 other alliances had already been doing for days, publicly denouncing their efforts in the process. This of course meant further delays in ongoing negotiations to end their holidays early and actually attack Asc, so both parties went back to the beach while a select handful of members stayed at home to watch the houses to make sure they weren't being robbed.

Ofc, they WERE being robbed, but there was nothing anybody could do because TGV came along and suffocated the few remaining members with chloroform, leaving the vast majority COMPLETELY CLUELESS to Ascendancy nicking their telly and blu-ray players.

The morale of the story is you can argue and bicker as much as you want, but it's really just a case of having too much sand in your vagina from too much time down the seaside.

At least you got to ride the donkey...

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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 04:10   #116
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

hi kenny!
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 06:43   #117
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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snip
So if I'm reading this correctly, your point is basically that, yes, generally speaking, there can be a benefit for smaller alliances to join in on the big battle, but in this particular case, there isn't. If that's the case, I agree.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 09:23   #118
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Here's the real deal:

CT and ND can't work together because their acronyms don't have any vowels or some shit, and NewDawn announced they were doing something 3 other alliances had already been doing for days, publicly denouncing their efforts in the process.
And thats why Asc took a gap of 30 million..or did you mean in another game? Cuzz rankings surely didnt showed that and if so it was a very very very poorely attempt so far imo.

After we announcend we went full on Asc and if other alliances wanna join the party, the more fun it is. If they don't, so be it no hard feelings, we go to war anyways. We are not pointing fingers or playing the 'Guilt card' here. If some people (Hi Wakey! :P) see it that way, its up to them. Fact (still) is, Asc is getting away from the rest of the uni...

If we fail, we fail but at least we tried it our way and make it a fun round afterall for our members. I agree ofc the alliances should organise and have a Orgy at Asc's place but who knows the round aint over yet.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 09:45   #119
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by MaVeRiXX View Post
we went full on Asc
Hahaha.

P.S. Good luck with the FC later today!

P.P.S. Thanks in advance for the salvage.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 12:11   #120
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Here's the real deal:

Pre-round there seemed to be a lot of talk of Asc mass recruiting because it was JBG's farewell tour. As such, other alliances (NewDawn, CT, Vengeance, Vision) all decided to take the round off and let Asc have an easy win; knowing that R29 they could all come back ready to actually play a proper round without those pesky kids from Scooby-Doo here to foil everything.

CT and ND can't work together because their acronyms don't have any vowels or some shit, and NewDawn announced they were doing something 3 other alliances had already been doing for days, publicly denouncing their efforts in the process. This of course meant further delays in ongoing negotiations to end their holidays early and actually attack Asc, so both parties went back to the beach while a select handful of members stayed at home to watch the houses to make sure they weren't being robbed.

Ofc, they WERE being robbed, but there was nothing anybody could do because TGV came along and suffocated the few remaining members with chloroform, leaving the vast majority COMPLETELY CLUELESS to Ascendancy nicking their telly and blu-ray players.

The morale of the story is you can argue and bicker as much as you want, but it's really just a case of having too much sand in your vagina from too much time down the seaside.

At least you got to ride the donkey...

i thought you were never going to post here again.

hypocrite.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 12:52   #121
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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CT and ND can't work together because their acronyms don't have any vowels or some shit, .
Maybe ND can call themselves Nu-dawn, and then we'd have some vowels to go with CT.

:p
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 13:24   #122
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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i thought you were never going to post here again.

hypocrite.
Technically, would that not make me a liar, rather than a hypocrit?

Not that that's any better.

Besides, AD has missed me.

And lokken: I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!!!

Last edited by Kenny; 14 Sep 2008 at 13:49.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 13:35   #123
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Technically, would that not make me a liar, rather than a hypocrit?

Not that that's any better.

Besides, AD has missed me.

And lokken: I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE!!! lulz
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 13:49   #124
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by wakey View Post
You actually hit the nail on the head as to why my points are all correct when you said " You didn't ask though."

ND hasn't asked most alliances for help as far as I'm aware. They certainly haven't actually asked us to.
As you might recall in your private channels, there were questions about hitting asc. Where most officers and atleast one hc was up for it.
But guess who vetoed it.. You're right, it was you!

What you are saying is completely bollocks.

ND would have attacked asc anyways, with help or without.
I won't deny this post is also designed to get more support, but more than that it is a public war announcement.
How you or anyone else want to read it, is totally up to you guys, I wrote it together with damo8, and we know exactly what we meant with it.

And why do you think nobody comes around asking F-Crew, cause they ALLWAYS get the same answer, "there is nothing in it for us!".
Yet everytime we go to war, we see an increase of F-Crew incs. It might just be coincidence, but it seems to me that you just like to feed on those warring instead of actually getting incs (cause that means you have to go to the forums and make a long post about it.)
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 13:51   #125
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by wakey View Post
Actually the era of alliance rank imho makes it even more the case. Before alliance ranks you could be the shittiest alliance in the game but if you had the contacts to get you in on the war for #1 and end up on the winning side suddenly you have a reputation as a good alliance. With alliance ranks there's something tangible to refer to and as such smaller battles have more importance.



Its a shortsighted view of the game there, and its actually a view that's been a problem of PA for a long time. The quality and enjoyment of a round is subjective and is based on your experience. This means that the other wars actually shape the round as much as the battle for #1 as both are really only effect the enjoyment of the round of those that have a duty to be involved in that battle
Hey you can make this post shorter! Just say I like to fence sit!
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 17:24   #126
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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i thought you were never going to post here again.
We just aint that lucky it seems, poor Kenny just cant help himself...
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 23:00   #127
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by SteInMetz View Post
As you might recall in your private channels, there were questions about hitting asc. Where most officers and atleast one hc was up for it.
But guess who vetoed it.. You're right, it was you!

What you are saying is completely bollocks.

ND would have attacked asc anyways, with help or without.
I won't deny this post is also designed to get more support, but more than that it is a public war announcement.
How you or anyone else want to read it, is totally up to you guys, I wrote it together with damo8, and we know exactly what we meant with it.

And why do you think nobody comes around asking F-Crew, cause they ALLWAYS get the same answer, "there is nothing in it for us!".
Yet everytime we go to war, we see an increase of F-Crew incs. It might just be coincidence, but it seems to me that you just like to feed on those warring instead of actually getting incs (cause that means you have to go to the forums and make a long post about it.)
What you are talking about is that some of the BC's brought up this post. Thats them bringing up the post, not you approaching us with a proposition. Now in your head maybe its the same thing but in reality its not. The closest anyone raised as a formal proposal was one of them stating something along the lines of "My ND gal mate is handing accurate Asc memberlists out".

Now yes we had a discussion on hitting Asc, and yes you are right that a few of the officers and 1 of the HC thought it sounded 'fun' to hit Asc, one even thought it was a good idea for me to go and beg to you and do whatever I had to do to get you to let us work with you. And again its true I put my points of view against hitting Asc. However I did not veto anything and my points against are pretty much all present in this thread and basically boiled down to it being over ambitious with the resources we have to take Asc on without co-operation and that ND had made no proposal for co-operation (The original post doesn't ask for any co-operation, it just tries to guilt people into attacking Asc by using the Fence sitter word) and that under no circumstance should we come begging to help you.

As for us always saying "there is nothing in it for us!". You would know this how? The last time I can recall there being any talks of co-operation between F-Crew and ND they were initiated by us and that was back in Round 2. We have only turned one down point blank that I'm aware of and that was last round as we were contending with incoming from 3 alliances and were trying to fight back against all 3 and there was no way we could spare the kind of fleets we would have needed to make any kind of positive contribution to the battle. The others have had extensive discussions, some were ultimately turned down because we weren't happy with the initial proposal and talks weren't getting anywhere (an offer from exi stands out as it seemed way to much like their request was for us to run flak and interference missions so they could later clean up) and some have been agreed but have fallen apart due to lack of interested parties. The rest we have gone ahead with, normally with ourselves and the other parties having success.

As for us targeting you when you are at war. We have only once intentionally targeted you in the last 8 rounds. This was a round where we were working with one of the V alliances (cant remember if it was Vision or Vgn as we have co-operated with both). One of the alliances this co-operation targeted was New Dawn.
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Unread 14 Sep 2008, 23:32   #128
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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However I did not veto anything and my points against are pretty much all present in this thread and basically boiled down to it being over ambitious with the resources we have to take Asc on without co-operation and that ND had made no proposal for co-operation ...
What is so tough about cooperating? "Hey, let's hit alliance X. We would like to take on those and those gals, which ones do you want?". Cooperation sorted. Well almost, agreed, but - unless someone is utterly shit* - it cannot be that hard now, can it?

So, what was the real issue there?

* shit - as in "someone not applying rationale & reason but instead being on a stupid emo rampage".
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 14:33   #129
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

From the looks at sandmans the first night of proper targetting against Ascendancy was at the same date that the initial post in this thread was made.

Wonder why CT haven't tried properly along with their block they made.
Doesn't surprise me that CT aren't doing anything though. Propably busy flagshipping their top planets and trying to hand out pnaps in order to avoid incomings (known tactics from former rounds). And who knows how many of their players, if not HC's have them. I remember the round when one of their current HC's was #1 player in their alliance, defleech, and pnaped with the enemy.

And this round, the valuable member they recruited that's a known cheater and a defleech who they allowed to defleech, who then got roided and went idle.
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 14:44   #130
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Take a quick look in the mirror mate, New Dawn isn't exactly known for their political prowess or in general getting anything done either...

and, how come you now suddenly are roiding Vision planets? Thought there was a 'cooperation' going on?
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 14:51   #131
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Take a quick look in the mirror mate, New Dawn isn't exactly known for their political prowess or in general getting anything done either...
Yea every alliance in PA sucks horribly at everything now. Spare us and go play PAOL where Fury lives on!
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 18:07   #132
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Yea every alliance in PA sucks horribly at everything now. Spare us and go play PAOL where Fury lives on!
why would I care about anything Fury?

and why don't you address the other part of my post?
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 18:17   #133
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Is anyone else interested in starting an alliance humbly named after Heartless' "Stupid Emo Rampage"?

I think there's real momentum for such a project.
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 18:23   #134
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Feels good to see Ascendancy still laying the pipe to you boob jobs.
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 19:06   #135
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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why don't you address the other part of my post?
About why ND "suddenly are roiding Vision planets"? Because I have no clue, that's why. Have those two allies had a round long NAP or something; how should I know?
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 19:18   #136
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

So it's #2, #3, #4 and maybe #5 versus ascendancy? Man, who are we supposed to block with. This shit sucks
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 19:20   #137
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Good thing we saw this coming and merged with penis-allianz
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Unread 16 Sep 2008, 23:32   #138
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Good thing we saw this coming and merged with penis-allianz
word up. and put previous round winners in descendancy as they suck.
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Unread 17 Sep 2008, 08:22   #139
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

Theam is ugly!
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Unread 17 Sep 2008, 22:53   #140
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

So, how's the war going chaps?
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Unread 18 Sep 2008, 07:08   #141
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

peachy.
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Unread 18 Sep 2008, 10:27   #142
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

It's nice to see that you, Wakey, are exploring new heights in noobishness. Well... it's definately something that your and your "oldest alliance around" excell in nowadays. Are you slowly building up to compete for a topspot in round 69?

At least when Mike was around f-crew were able to earn some respect for shown skills, but you, Sir, are the longest playing noob in this game. Despite your numerous attempts to explain your actions on AD, you still sound like a dwarf.
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Unread 18 Sep 2008, 11:36   #143
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Originally Posted by Riddim View Post
It's nice to see that you, Wakey, are exploring new heights in noobishness. Well... it's definately something that your and your "oldest alliance around" excell in nowadays. Are you slowly building up to compete for a topspot in round 69?

At least when Mike was around f-crew were able to earn some respect for shown skills, but you, Sir, are the longest playing noob in this game. Despite your numerous attempts to explain your actions on AD, you still sound like a dwarf.
The fault isn't with Wakey. It's with CT/ND's inability to sell an idea to them. But hey carry on insulting them I'm sure that will win them round!
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Unread 18 Sep 2008, 14:47   #144
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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It's nice to see that you, Wakey, are exploring new heights in noobishness. Well... it's definately something that your and your "oldest alliance around" excell in nowadays. Are you slowly building up to compete for a topspot in round 69?

At least when Mike was around f-crew were able to earn some respect for shown skills, but you, Sir, are the longest playing noob in this game. Despite your numerous attempts to explain your actions on AD, you still sound like a dwarf.
Lol thats hilarious, especially with the part about Mike. For all the great qualities and asset Mike brought to the F-Crew, none of these qualities were on the internal or external politics side of things. Mike valued friendship over everything else and if there was a discussion that would put him in any kind of way inbetween two parties he was friends with he would excuse himself (Which was a real pain as more often than not he held a deciding vote but he wasn't willing to give his input unless a unanimous decision had already been reached)

Mike's real asset was in a community management role, something which only those in F-Crew really saw, although even then he wouldn't really get involved in any members disputes except the most basic parts (For example the split in the alliance caused by BrOws and LMO splitting up was left to me to handle). As such any 'skills' you saw that brought respect to F-Crew almost certainly came from myself, Bazz and the various other HC we had during Mikes time.

Anyway ND can keep throwing insults at me if they want, hey after all its much easier to do that to anyone who doesnt buy the meaningless PR exercise you lot are trying to pull just look good, than it is to grow some balls and take an active lead and try and arrange something properly that other alliances can buy into.
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Unread 18 Sep 2008, 15:18   #145
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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The fault isn't with Wakey. It's with CT/ND's inability to sell an idea to them. But hey carry on insulting them I'm sure that will win them round!
Well, I don't know if there have been attempts to involve f-crew in an effort this round, since I don't have a clue what's going on in ND politically. I do know that ND-command wouldn't expect f-crew to make any difference however. They have had the chance to prove this from round3 till now.
Hence, your reply about ND failing to sell an idea to Wakey is clearly stupid.
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Anyway ND can keep throwing insults at me if they want, hey after all its much easier to do that to anyone who doesnt buy the meaningless PR exercise you lot are trying to pull just look good, than it is to grow some balls and take an active lead and try and arrange something properly that other alliances can buy into.
I'm not ND, I'm Riddim and in no way I'm talking on behalf of ND since I don't have any position in ND-command whatsoever.
Oh and my point about f-crew still stands. In the rounds when Mike was around f-crew at least meant something and never again have you reached a level that can be slightly compared with the level you lot were playing in at the time. The reason for this is for you to find out.
To end with a positive note, at least you keep AD alive with your ridiculous posting.
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Unread 18 Sep 2008, 16:10   #146
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Well, I don't know if there have been attempts to involve f-crew in an effort this round, since I don't have a clue what's going on in ND politically.
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Hence, your reply about ND failing to sell an idea to Wakey is clearly stupid.
.
Actually by your own admittance it looks like your reply was completely stupid...
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Unread 18 Sep 2008, 22:29   #147
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

I agreewith Riddim.
Its not the fault of ND not selling the idea good enough to F-Crew, its F-Crew not acceting the idea of any joint attacks it seems from my point of view
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Unread 19 Sep 2008, 00:38   #148
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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I agreewith Riddim.
Its not the fault of ND not selling the idea good enough to F-Crew, its F-Crew not acceting the idea of any joint attacks it seems from my point of view
Did we listen to your proposal or did we flatly turn it down like atleast one other alliance that was brought up in the discussion did and I would assume others did? As you know we listened.

Now forgive me if from the off we weren't a little sceptical of the plan especially when the only HC's involved in the discussion was from our alliance and an alliance outside the top10. I believe Imperial told you that we were sceptical due to the lack of HC confirmation from the main alliances and as far as I know no HC confirmation was forthcoming or has been forthcoming yet.

Then the 'power house' alliances's reps fumbled their way through discussions, making all sorts of errors. Now these alliances are full of HC that have been there and done that with these things yet dealing with this supposed serious attempt at taking on asc it was left to someone who may know what they were doing as a BC but was out of their depth organising such a co-op. It got so bad that the HC from the alliance outside the top10 had to take complete control of the planning and discussion. Yes that HC in question is experienced but really should that be happening with the alliances involved?

Now sorry to say this but the whole attempt was farcical and under no circumstance seemed like something that should be taken anymore seriously than say UnitedFleets. As I have said already and Game has also its you who are challenging for #1 and its you who need help if you are going to achieve it. As such its your duty to sell it as a viable operation. You failed to sell it well from the off, as you said yourself atleast 1 alliance turned you down off the initial pitch, a pitch which as it developed got more and more holes in it
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Unread 19 Sep 2008, 13:51   #149
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Actually by your own admittance it looks like your reply was completely stupid...
I'm wondering if you ignored to read the rest of my post on purpose so you can answer with one of your standard witty replies or perhaps my bad english left you clueless?
Oh, btw, from a good source I heard that ND did propose something to f-crew which most of their command was in favour for, until Wakey blew up the idea.
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Unread 19 Sep 2008, 14:19   #150
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Re: Lets Get This Round Started - Fence Sitting Over

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Now sorry to say this but the whole attempt was farcical and under no circumstance seemed like something that should be taken anymore seriously than say UnitedFleets. As I have said already and Game has also its you who are challenging for #1 and its you who need help if you are going to achieve it. As such its your duty to sell it as a viable operation. You failed to sell it well from the off, as you said yourself atleast 1 alliance turned you down off the initial pitch, a pitch which as it developed got more and more holes in it
Im actually agreeing with wakey on this one, its the top alliances that need to come up with a viable plan if they want #1 not the smaller ones.
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