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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 10:15   #1
Allfather
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So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Next round, im covert/scanner, and for some weird reason people want to put me into their alliance (thus causing them to get crap rankings).

BUT I will still be Transcendancy (dual membership ftw) and doing scans/coverts for other people, heck i might scan entire raids for other alliances if they ask me (as im such a nice guy).

SO will they perform their patented ninja moves and close me for being a support planet?. I have really no intention of bothering getting roids nor do i feel like launching shippies, cept for defense in and out of tag.

Discuss.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 10:42   #2
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

There has started a discussion in regards to supportplanets, so far in the discussion and i bet someone will yell at me for telling this, the discussion has lead to that supportplanet definition will not exist on scanners and the cov-op resource hack, everything else is most likely still to be held as defined as a support planet action.

I pretty much support this.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 10:44   #3
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
There has started a discussion in regards to supportplanets, so far in the discussion and i bet someone will yell at me for telling this, the discussion has lead to that supportplanet definition will not exist on scanners and the cov-op resource hack, everything else is most likely still to be held as defined as a support planet action.

I pretty much support this.
Im leaning in the general direction of supporting it as well, It would just be so much better were it hardcoded as well. Less workload for the MH as a bonus
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 10:55   #4
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

It's good to hear that objective, clear rules will (hopefully!) be laid down in time for next round.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 12:03   #5
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allfather
SO will they perform their patented ninja moves and close me for being a support planet?
It's said Remy is suspended, so the multihunter team have their ninja assassin (yes, intentional) tied down. So probably no more of those until they set the warrior free.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 12:14   #6
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Let's be clear here - Remy isn't suspended, he's on holiday.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 12:22   #7
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

I still believe Cov Op's should be included as support planet actions, atleast when it comes the cov opers who clearly go out of their way to take the piss and to do nothing but support others. If a cov oper cant be shown to actually playing in something resembling a proper manner then they should be closed for being a support planet
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 12:36   #8
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

I still think the rule is shit in itself. If we manage to precisely define what is support and what not then we should hard-code it into the game, and only keep the support planet rule until the hard-coding happened.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 12:38   #9
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I still believe Cov Op's should be included as support planet actions, atleast when it comes the cov opers who clearly go out of their way to take the piss and to do nothing but support others. If a cov oper cant be shown to actually playing in something resembling a proper manner then they should be closed for being a support planet
I agree with the exception of resource hack, which was pretty much the agreement on the meet.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 12:47   #10
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
If a cov oper cant be shown to actually playing in something resembling a proper manner then they should be closed for being a support planet

What is "a proper manner"?


Covert ops were introduced into the game to create another way of playing the game - one which, I'll remind you, was considered equally valid by the Creators. If a planet chooses to be a scanner/covert-opper, there should be no barrier to them choosing to do so.

I suspect that you're just irritated by covert ops affecting your precious planet and therefore want to stop them being used wherever possible.


Whatever happened to principles
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 12:58   #11
Allfather
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

1) I dislike the use of "Creators" when we talk about planetarion nowadays.
There are to my knowledge none left of the creators.

2) "Proper" ?. Seriously, if i want to spend my time coverting top200s willynilly cause i find that amusing, isnt that my prerogative?
Same could be said of people who only attack for ships, roids or xp, are they playing "proper"?
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 13:01   #12
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I still believe Cov Op's should be included as support planet actions, atleast when it comes the cov opers who clearly go out of their way to take the piss and to do nothing but support others. If a cov oper cant be shown to actually playing in something resembling a proper manner then they should be closed for being a support planet
Burdon of proof?
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 13:27   #13
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
What is "a proper manner"?


Covert ops were introduced into the game to create another way of playing the game - one which, I'll remind you, was considered equally valid by the Creators. If a planet chooses to be a scanner/covert-opper, there should be no barrier to them choosing to do so.

I suspect that you're just irritated by covert ops affecting your precious planet and therefore want to stop them being used wherever possible.


Whatever happened to principles
Zero Roids and Zero Ships is far from playing properly. These planets are support planets clear and simple, support planets which certain alliances.

And what a surprise to see Asc and Tran people stating that it is proper playing, after all these are the two groups who seem to be responsible for this piss taking tactic, atleast their gloating messages that Ive received from these alliances for the damage they were doing to my planet with these support planets.

Cov ops are a valid tactic and should be allowed BUT not when they are carried out by zero roid, zero ships and little score/value planets who are only there to build a cov op network which abuse things like the bash limit and the way covops work to make themselves untouchable and hence provide an alliance with an untouchable way of attacking others
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 13:35   #14
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Zero Roids and Zero Ships is far from playing properly. These planets are support planets clear and simple, support planets which certain alliances.
Wrong. A support planet unfairly benefits a particular organisation. You can be a cov-op planet with 0 roids/ships without choosing to benefit a particular organisation through your actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
And what a surprise to see Asc and Tran people stating that it is proper playing, after all these are the two groups who seem to be responsible for this piss taking tactic, atleast their gloating messages that Ive received from these alliances for the damage they were doing to my planet with these support planets.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REMIND YOU THAT I'M NOT *SCENDANCY!!



Apologies to everyone else for this little episode of internet rage, but I'm sick of people trying to tar me with the same brush when it comes to *scendancy. I have nothing to do with *scendancy, nothing whatsoever, and the only reason I share opinions with some of their members is because that particular opinion is the correct one.


Further, Wakey, I knew absolutely nothing about your planet, but it's always fairly obvious when someone has their own personal agenda. This case was no exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
Cov ops are a valid tactic and should be allowed BUT not when they are carried out by zero roid, zero ships and little score/value planets who are only there to build a cov op network which abuse things like the bash limit and the way covops work to make themselves untouchable and hence provide an alliance with an untouchable way of attacking others
If covert ops are such a problem, build security centres and assign population to security. It's not difficult. Once you're immune, they can't touch you.


You, in fact, are untouchable.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 13:48   #15
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Wakey and his bitter piss comments about coverts.
I work 70 to 80 hours a week, I do feel like playing pa, but i do not feel like not sleeping doing it.
I do not feel like being a farm, that would be the consequence of me going in with roids an mass and a semi active planet, cause face it, pa is all about getting easy roids.

Covert gives me a opportunity to participate in the game which i like in a play style that suites my real life.

You coming here saying that if i played covert with 0 roids and ships to amuse myself and help friends and people who need help is pissing me off and if i knew you personaly would result in me planting my size 47 shoe up your ass.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 14:41   #16
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Wrong. A support planet unfairly benefits a particular organisation. You can be a cov-op planet with 0 roids/ships without choosing to benefit a particular organisation through your actions.


HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REMIND YOU THAT I'M NOT *SCENDANCY!!



Apologies to everyone else for this little episode of internet rage, but I'm sick of people trying to tar me with the same brush when it comes to *scendancy. I have nothing to do with *scendancy, nothing whatsoever, and the only reason I share opinions with some of their members is because that particular opinion is the correct one.


Further, Wakey, I knew absolutely nothing about your planet, but it's always fairly obvious when someone has their own personal agenda. This case was no exception.



If covert ops are such a problem, build security centres and assign population to security. It's not difficult. Once you're immune, they can't touch you.


You, in fact, are untouchable.
1) Most Zero roid planets DO benifit a certain alliance. They are used to create Cov Op networks for certain alliances and its a piss take.

2) I didn't state you were *sc. Ok maybe i should have quoted Allfather and Jester to make that clear

3) Have asc cov op you over and over again and gloat at you via various means and then tell me their views are right.

4) Yes you can make yourself immune, but why should anyone be forced to hinder their round to make themselves immune just because a group of self important members of this community think its fund to bend the rules just to push their own personal agendas through. If asc think something wrong and needs changed then they are free to state it but going out of their way to partake in actions to try and make a mockery of rules is quite frankly sad and shows exactly why the games failing when they make up a large amount of the core of this community
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 14:47   #17
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

I'm going to play a covop planet next round just to attack Wakey
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 14:52   #18
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

1) No they weren't. At no time did any HC of ascendancy encourage anything of the sort.

3) I have no idea what your point is here even vaguely.

4) Merely stating things does not have an illustrious history throughout Planetarion. We're standing up against the carebearisation of a wargame man

To be honest that's one of the most self-centred rants I've ever had the displeasure to read.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 14:59   #19
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
1) Most Zero roid planets DO benifit a certain alliance. They are used to create Cov Op networks for certain alliances and its a piss take.
You seem to be referring towards a specific group of alliances and the playing preferences of their members. However, the rule you proposed wasn't logically based on the support planet rule:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
I still believe Cov Op's should be included as support planet actions, atleast when it comes the cov opers who clearly go out of their way to take the piss and to do nothing but support others. If a cov oper cant be shown to actually playing in something resembling a proper manner then they should be closed for being a support planet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
2) I didn't state you were *sc. Ok maybe i should have quoted Allfather and Jester to make that clear
It was implied in your post, whether you intended that or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
3) Have asc cov op you over and over again and gloat at you via various means and then tell me their views are right.
Should that mean that you try to engineer a change to the rules of Planetarion just so they can't cov op your planet?


Before you compare this to general *scendancy support (on the forums at least) for dropping the alliance member limit and the support planet rule, we should take the opportunity to note that Ascendancy is perhaps the only top alliance that hasn't filled up to the 70 member limit at any point this round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakey
4) Yes you can make yourself immune, but why should anyone be forced to hinder their round to make themselves immune just because a group of self important members of this community think its fund to bend the rules just to push their own personal agendas through. If asc think something wrong and needs changed then they are free to state it but going out of their way to partake in actions to try and make a mockery of rules is quite frankly sad and shows exactly why the games failing when they make up a large amount of the core of this community
You can choose your friends in PA but you can't choose your enemies. If I was in a warring alliance I'd find it damned inconvenient that I needed to defend myself from attack (and by this I mean attacks of any nature), but I'd accept that I had little choice but to do so.

I'll also point out that *scendancy has less than 100 members in the three alliances that are attached to the name, whereas there are 3417 planets at last count. I'm sure they'll enjoy the ego boost of being named as 'a large amount of the core of this community', but it's not an accurate statement.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:01   #20
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
3) Have asc cov op you over and over again and gloat at you via various means and then tell me their views are right.
I got cov-op'd quite a bit at the start of the round then they stopped; wether this was asc or not is something i don't know but its just a way of playing the game. alliances usually have a group of cov-oppers who go against amps/dists, structures, res hacking etc. if you roid someone you are happy and cov-oping someone is the equivilant to a cov-op'er has roiding.

was i pissed off when i was cov-op'd? damn right. was it right for them to send me message gloating? sure, its a war game. when i got there co-ods and retalled did i send a shed load of structure killers? definitly. ITS A BLOODY WAR GAME WAKEY
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:08   #21
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
4) Yes you can make yourself immune, but why should anyone be forced to hinder their round to make themselves immune just because a group of self important members of this community think its fund to bend the rules just to push their own personal agendas through.
This statement is wrong in so many ways.

First of all, they're not hindering their round by making themselves immune, they're doing what can be done to protect their planet from an offensive attempt. Is that not the very basic PRINCIPLE of Planetarion - protecting your planet from whatever harm it might come to it?

It's more like some self-important members of this community feel that people should for some weird reason stop cov-opping them because they want to build Distorters, Finance Centers or whatever instead. I mean, what the hell?

Secondly, covert ops are (in this round) a very useful tool. They have been given to the players, players acquire this feature legally, and it's up to the players to decide how extensively will they use it. Seeing as Planetarion isn't a solo game (although looking at recent rounds, some people have obviously made it such), using covert ops to help your alliance if you cannot help it otherwise is perfectly acceptable behaviour (even commendable one).

Finally, it has nothing to do with "bending" the rules. Neither you nor anyone else decides what are the rules - the rules are in the EULA and they either exist or do not exist. That particular one does not exist. That is all that I, you, MH and everyone else need to know.

Now you could claim that support planet rule handles this in a way, but it's already been said that the support planet rule is so flexible that it can be used to close people for doing any ingame action whatsoever. As such, support rule can only be ignored. Or, alternatively, you could just let your planet idle and do nothing, because only then you're legally safe from being branded as a support planet.

Bottom line is, if something isn't widely accepted as a "rule", you can write it a thousand times and it will only produce trouble. It was implemented in a rush, motivation for it being implemented is also very transparent (and very unethical, if I may use that word). Eventually it will for sure be dropped due to the sheer amount of unrest it causes. But better sooner than later.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:11   #22
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudge
I got cov-op'd quite a bit at the start of the round then they stopped; wether this was asc or not is something i don't know but its just a way of playing the game. alliances usually have a group of cov-oppers who go against amps/dists, structures, res hacking etc. if you roid someone you are happy and cov-oping someone is the equivilant to a cov-op'er has roiding.

was i pissed off when i was cov-op'd? damn right. was it right for them to send me message gloating? sure, its a war game. when i got there co-ods and retalled did i send a shed load of structure killers? definitly. ITS A BLOODY WAR GAME WAKEY
Smudge can for once you actually READ what i said. I have no problem with cov ops but there are groups of players playing with planets that have no intention of actually playing. They just sit there Abusing the bash limit to carry out offensive actions for another group of players

The people these groups terrorise simply cant respond, you cant cov op them as they are so small, you cant attack them as they are too small. They are so small you cant even get another player to help you out because they are smaller than everyone else.

It is simply as much of a support planet as those OOT defenders that brought about the Support Planet rules in the first place
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:15   #23
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Smudge can for once you actually READ what i said. I have no problem with cov ops but there are groups of players playing with planets that have no intention of actually playing. They just sit there Abusing the bash limit to carry out offensive actions for another group of players

The people these groups terrorise simply cant respond, you cant cov op them as they are so small, you cant attack them as they are too small. They are so small you cant even get another player to help you out because they are smaller than everyone else.

It is simply as much of a support planet as those OOT defenders that brought about the Support Planet rules in the first place
I was clearly staying my point my dear <3

Wether they abuse the bash limit or not isn't the point, if you can cov-op people with ignoring the bash limit, go for it. granted its not morally right or correct, but thats way for you. if YOU cant attack them or your alliance can't attack them then do something about it and attack the alliance that you think is supplying them with the co-ods - get even!

there is no love in war </3
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:24   #24
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smudge
there is no love in war </3
But it seems there is lots of love in PA.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 15:32   #25
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
It is simply as much of a support planet as those OOT defenders that brought about the Support Planet rules in the first place
Actually considering a few staggeringly inactive wastes of space in the ascendancy tag this round they all could have played for it if they wanted to. To be honest we must run our support planets appallingly poorly as I haven't been helped directly by them once.

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The Care Bears' ultimate "weapon" is the "Care Bear Stare," in which the collected Bears stand together and radiate light from their respective tummy symbols. These combine to form a ray of love and good cheer which could bring care and joy into the target's heart.
To be honest you're just a fairly one-dimensional person and your appalling idea of what "playing properly" is I find fairly repugnant.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 18:00   #26
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I still believe Cov Op's should be included as support planet actions, atleast when it comes the cov opers who clearly go out of their way to take the piss and to do nothing but support others. If a cov oper cant be shown to actually playing in something resembling a proper manner then they should be closed for being a support planet
Ah, so nowadays, we judge about how active and in which manners people should play. Only those that suit our elite taste are allowed to play. Those who dont may fsck right off. Lets imagine this in practice......
"You have been closed.
Reason: we dont like how you're playing this game."

Really wakey, clap clap, what an great attitude.
Discussions about this game are so fun. People post clueless and crude crap that resembles attitudes that - in real life - wouldnt really let them be associated with "politically correct".
Man you guys got issues! ...because some guys destroy some structures which was only possible because you had your pants down and didnt play smart (or good?? SHOCKER!!!) enough.
In Ego-Shooters, some people camp. Others dont like it and moan. In reality, soldiers "camp" too, dont they?
Theres just too many sore losers around on the intarweb and thats the end of that story.
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Unread 9 Aug 2007, 20:24   #27
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltaine
Ah, so nowadays, we judge about how active and in which manners people should play. Only those that suit our elite taste are allowed to play. Those who dont may fsck right off. Lets imagine this in practice......
"You have been closed.
Reason: we dont like how you're playing this game."

Really wakey, clap clap, what an great attitude.
Discussions about this game are so fun. People post clueless and crude crap that resembles attitudes that - in real life - wouldnt really let them be associated with "politically correct".
Man you guys got issues! ...because some guys destroy some structures which was only possible because you had your pants down and didnt play smart (or good?? SHOCKER!!!) enough.
In Ego-Shooters, some people camp. Others dont like it and moan. In reality, soldiers "camp" too, dont they?
Theres just too many sore losers around on the intarweb and thats the end of that story.
For starters claiming I'm being elitist is ****ing hilarious. You guys really need to be a bit more consistent with your claims as one minute your claiming I'm too focused on amking the game nice and inviting for new players of any activity and then im being elistist.

Theres a clear difference between taking the piss with a planet thats simply a support planet as they arent actually making an attempt to play a proper rounded game and being a less active player who takes advantages of cov ops but has roids and has ships to gain more roids and protect current roids. The Zero roid planets are nothing better than the exil OOT defence that brought about the support planet rule in the first place. They are planets designed soley to carry out a single repeated action against someone else not for personal gain but to help a 3rd party
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Unread 9 Aug 2007, 20:56   #28
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Im not "you guys", im a single person.
Im sorry if that does not fit - and hence confuses - your obviously quite paranoid parallel mind worlds.

By the way, i dont think you got the back ground of my cynical comment about the "elite taste". Yes, i do think it is "elitist" of ppl who apparently seem to think they can judge which way of playing is fine - or "proper" as you call it - and which isnt.
You fail to see that its quite fskcing arrogant to define how you have to play this game "properly", which you seem to think you can do.

Also, your constant ranting about the "zero roid planets" is quite childish and sad tbfh.
How many of those planets were there? How many are left? How many are still active? What incredible impact did they have on the round? Also, people could have been quite safe also, they just didnt see that possibility and so, many were surprised and unprepared. Seriously, get a life ffs. Most of that stuff is basically just pointless whinings - go read Sunzi or something and learn how combat strategy works and what makes a good strategist. (hint: its not whining.)
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Unread 10 Aug 2007, 11:31   #29
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Actually. A player that keeps his score low to coovop better and is staying in the alliance he is helping isn't wrong right? It is only wrong when they are out of the alliance they are working for. The thing is. You can't create a perfect code. There will allways be loopholes. You can't create a perfect environment, but you should have clear rules and guidelines or things getmessed up by the crew.
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Unread 10 Aug 2007, 11:49   #30
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Having played a round back im still undecided on how it was tbh! Game play seems improved abit, stats seemed good, tho xans wernt great again :P However on the whole fairly balanced.

The thing that really gets me that hasnt changed is the mh team and the rules surrounding them. Still way to much of a grey area, it comes down to the fact that they have way to much freedom.

In every game there will be numerous ways to play a game and some will not fit with the 'preffered style' of play, its time to get over it, trying to tell people what they can and cant do with their planet is rediculous.

Having hard coded alliances = good, their score and eta advantage is limited and controllable, stops a defensive block forming..... What is not good and definitly not controllable is closing planets for helping friends and alliances. They dont have the -eta bonus and therefor the advantage you hardcoded is lost. If you want to stop friends playing together spread over allies or out of tags then your ********** its little communities like that that hold the game together. Again too much grey area.

Planet stupidity > Not everyone is a pro at this game and people make mistakes, suiciding fleets is common when people over sleep and there are thousands of other reasons, and there is no way to prove that somthing is deliberate or not! Once again trying to force people to play conventionally and controlling how they use their fleets is stupid. If somebody suicides their fleet then it has repucussions for that player as well as the gal and his friends, but if thats what they decide to do who are you to say different?

I hope its time that we have black an white rules that mh's need to abide by, no more case to case bull. If you find a loop hole close it the next round but having mh's removing res from 1 person and not another on a hunch is out of order, if you have evidense of cheating close them, if not leave them alone. Tbh hardcode if u can but its not 100% needed, have black and white rules, no grey areas, if people break them and you can prove it close them, if not let people play, same rules for all.
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Unread 10 Aug 2007, 11:51   #31
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Re: So, supportplanet rule and r23.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
1) Most Zero roid planets DO benifit a certain alliance. They are used to create Cov Op networks for certain alliances and its a piss take.

2) I didn't state you were *sc. Ok maybe i should have quoted Allfather and Jester to make that clear

3) Have asc cov op you over and over again and gloat at you via various means and then tell me their views are right.

4) Yes you can make yourself immune, but why should anyone be forced to hinder their round to make themselves immune just because a group of self important members of this community think its fund to bend the rules just to push their own personal agendas through. If asc think something wrong and needs changed then they are free to state it but going out of their way to partake in actions to try and make a mockery of rules is quite frankly sad and shows exactly why the games failing when they make up a large amount of the core of this community
Wacky sorry m8 but jeez its part of the game wether people like it or not, if u want immune thats what u gotta do, no 2 ways about it....
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