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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 09:07   #251
Kargool
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Yes I do think eXilition deserve to win the round, but at the same time it's also completely reasonable that a shitload of other alliances team up to try to prevent exilition from doing that. Admittedly, these alliances could and should have doen something about eXilition a lot earlier this round, but they did not - I don't see why that should mean that they should turn over dead now. The round ain't finished yet.
I dont think its completley reasonable for f.ex ToF being used as peons when their alliance doesnt have a chance to win. But ofc, if they want to be used as peons I guess they can do it.
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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 09:17   #252
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

ToF did their own politics, and much thanks to them. Noone has forced them to do anything they didn't agree with, they've cooperated with Angels, and later FO out of their own free will, and they've been great guys to work with. <3 Oly
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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 09:42   #253
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Why are you eXi guys so bothered? Surely winning would just be a bonus as it wasn't your original intention?

Sandmans is interesting, finally.
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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 12:08   #254
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I dont think its completley reasonable for f.ex ToF being used as peons when their alliance doesnt have a chance to win. But ofc, if they want to be used as peons I guess they can do it.
Well Kaegool, ain't that the big question in every round where some smaller alliance helps out one of the #1 contender?
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Unread 2 Dec 2006, 20:14   #255
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I dont think its completley reasonable for f.ex ToF being used as peons when their alliance doesnt have a chance to win. But ofc, if they want to be used as peons I guess they can do it.
Tof is not peon of other alliance , never had been
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 06:53   #256
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

I must admit its fun seeing exi boays crying in here. Every 2nd post, ´omg FO, omg ND´.
Now, allow me to quote you mofos: You´re pathetic!
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 07:30   #257
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

yea, 1,3% of exi been on here and made posts which can be remotedly characterised as whining.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 12:05   #258
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
I must admit its fun seeing exi boays crying in here. Every 2nd post, ´omg FO, omg ND´.
Now, allow me to quote you mofos: You´re pathetic!
Piss of man, hardly anyone here posting is eXi. Face it, we owned you once more, if you want to know what whining looks like look in the mirror.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 12:19   #259
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Where did 7,000 roids go? Is anyone hitting FO/ND other than eXil?

Help me, I'm lost
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 12:21   #260
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
Piss of man, hardly anyone here posting is eXi. Face it, we owned you once more, if you want to know what whining looks like look in the mirror.
If you´ll check my latest posts, you´ll notice i already recognised exi´s superiority. That doesnt change the fact that you´re a bunch of puppies whining on AD.
Yes, you owned US ALL once more
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 12:24   #261
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Where did 7,000 roids go? Is anyone hitting FO/ND other than eXil?

Help me, I'm lost
what do you think?
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 12:39   #262
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Where did 7,000 roids go? Is anyone hitting FO/ND other than eXil?

Help me, I'm lost
FOs roidloss stems entirely from an unruly member in the top 10 leaving.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 12:55   #263
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
If you´ll check my latest posts, you´ll notice i already recognised exi´s superiority. That doesnt change the fact that you´re a bunch of puppies whining on AD.
Yes, you owned US ALL once more
Im usually one of the last people to agree with exi on most things, but they are right here. You are making (more of) an arse of yourself - little more.
They arent whining - far from it, After all - why should they whine. They're still in the lead with an ever fewer number of days to go.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 12:57   #264
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Im usually one of the last people to agree with exi on most things, but they are right here. You are making (more of) an arse of yourself - little more.
They arent whining - far from it, After all - why should they whine. They're still in the lead with an ever fewer number of days to go.
Well actually they complained about so many alliances hitting them, as if they should expect anything else.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 13:00   #265
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Well actually they complained about so many alliances hitting them, as if they should expect anything else.
True, but is that really whining?
to me, it looked more like mocking rather than actually complaining along the lines of " are you so poor that you need so many to have a go? "
edit:
admittedly, time and the lack thereof is a major factor - but even with as many alliances allegedly going after them - it doesnt appear to be enough.
Tactics, numbers or both appear a bit iffy to me
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 15:59   #266
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Where did 7,000 roids go? Is anyone hitting FO/ND other than eXil?

Help me, I'm lost
On this note, where did 9.5k roids go, and who's hitting ND?

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
FOs roidloss stems entirely from an unruly member in the top 10 leaving.
I hope you're roiding him to the ground as we speak.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 16:01   #267
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Working on it.
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 18:08   #268
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I dont think its completley reasonable for f.ex ToF being used as peons when their alliance doesnt have a chance to win. But ofc, if they want to be used as peons I guess they can do it.
What, like TGV is being used as peons for ND?
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Unread 3 Dec 2006, 18:20   #269
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Kargool is my personal peon. <3
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 05:34   #270
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardking
Ye, u had a hc with a good faith fooled? Well done buying time. Suppose mac didn't expect such a maneuver coming from ND. Tbh who would've. If u used any of that brain capacity @ IN GAME, instead counting lines @ THE FORUM - we might even 1 day see ND gaining result/improvement between rounds, but seems the hq can't find the time from growing their e-peniz.
If I can decipher this post, you're saying that we deliberately tricked MacTanzu into agreeing with something he said of his own volition. Tough one, but good on me for controlling Mac's speech.


Can someone please explain why Jer thought that I invoked h3ll's name as justification for the end of an arrangement between eX and ND? That shit is not ok with me on a both a personal level and as representative of ND HC. We, and I, don't roll like that, and I would seriously appreciate Mac and Stoom's recognizing of that fact.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 07:34   #271
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
If I can decipher this post, you're saying that we deliberately tricked MacTanzu into agreeing with something he said of his own volition. Tough one, but good on me for controlling Mac's speech.


Can someone please explain why Jer thought that I invoked h3ll's name as justification for the end of an arrangement between eX and ND? That shit is not ok with me on a both a personal level and as representative of ND HC. We, and I, don't roll like that, and I would seriously appreciate Mac and Stoom's recognizing of that fact.
No thats true, you only suicided in name of h3ll!
But seriously, jer must have seen some logs or whatever, that statement did not come from eXilition HC (afaik).

Now, can someone please explain why ND HC thought that they could beat eXilition? That shit is not ok with me on a both a personal level and as representative of eXilition HC. We, and I, don't roll like that, and I would seriously appreciate Barrow and cura's recognizing of that fact.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 09:10   #272
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
FOs roidloss stems entirely from an unruly member in the top 10 leaving.
name and shame him
only way to deal with ship jumpers and rank saver's
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 09:20   #273
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
name and shame him
only way to deal with ship jumpers and rank saver's
When round ends i will post here the full list of shipjumpers. Hope HC of other allies do the same and do not recruit those ***** next round(s).
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 09:29   #274
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

perhaps a full list of all planets who got planet naps from all alliances would also be an idea to discourage that self-centred behaviour
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 10:43   #275
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoshuro
When round ends i will post here the full list of shipjumpers. Hope HC of other allies do the same and do not recruit those ***** next round(s).
what is a shipjumper?
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 10:44   #276
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandAdm Thrawn
what is a shipjumper?
an alliance member who abandons their alliance for another at the first sign of trouble
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 11:32   #277
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
perhaps a full list of all planets who got planet naps from all alliances would also be an idea to discourage that self-centred behaviour
Sid tried that in round 11, but I think it presents a few obvious problems. Not every planet NAP is explicit. There are many ways to ensure plausible deniability upon confrontation. It is not in the interest of the NAPed alliance to cause harm to planets that have NAPs with them, for the obvious reason and for their ability to negotiate future planet NAPs.

The only thing that works is an alliance policing its own members. And even then there is an advantage to having some few planets with NAPs.

The negative press that planet NAPing gets on AD does not reflect it's positive popularity among alliances and players. While obviously frustrating, perhaps they are not as evil as people express in public?
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 13:26   #278
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Sid tried that in round 11, but I think it presents a few obvious problems. Not every planet NAP is explicit. There are many ways to ensure plausible deniability upon confrontation. It is not in the interest of the NAPed alliance to cause harm to planets that have NAPs with them, for the obvious reason and for their ability to negotiate future planet NAPs.

The only thing that works is an alliance policing its own members. And even then there is an advantage to having some few planets with NAPs.

The negative press that planet NAPing gets on AD does not reflect it's positive popularity among alliances and players. While obviously frustrating, perhaps they are not as evil as people express in public?
PNAPs are good. Till they interact will ally politics. When that happens, planet in discussion must drop the NAP or leave the ally(or get kicked). Is a PNAP above ally? If that´s the case, you must be a dumb HC not to kick the NAPer. I´m not against PNAPs. They protect ally members, hence ally roids, value, score, etc. Till one point ofc.
Shipjumping though, that´s just evil. Especially when joining the enemy.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 14:44   #279
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
PNAPs are good. Till they interact will ally politics. When that happens, planet in discussion must drop the NAP or leave the ally(or get kicked). Is a PNAP above ally? If that´s the case, you must be a dumb HC not to kick the NAPer. I´m not against PNAPs. They protect ally members, hence ally roids, value, score, etc. Till one point ofc.
Shipjumping though, that´s just evil. Especially when joining the enemy.
I disagree with the sentence in bold. It doesn't protect members, it just focuses fire on those who don't have planetnaps. Which really means that the people fighting your enemy grows smaller in size as they get more incoming and loses more roids and value. This is ineffectual, and it doesn't really matter if you are planetnapped to a neutral alliance or a hostile one - the rest of the alliance gets your incoming anyway.

Couple a planetnap with a lousy morale, a tendency to do solo raids, and inability to teamwork. Those people are often to be found high in the rankings, and they get defense regardless of how much they send - because why would an alliance spend defense fleets covering a 400 roid planet when they can cover a 400 roidloss on another planet? They don't. We've tried to do something about it in FO, and results are coming. However, people like Rasputin and darts having planetnaps / leaving / being kicked (These guys were in the top half of top 100), doesn't do much for morale. If you're not sure about how your members would feel about it, kicking players like that could be to shoot yourself in the foot.

We were kind to darts, since he admitted to having the planetnap and was gracious about being forced to leave, but he attacked us with eXilition not 10 hours after he was out. We're not doing this mistake again.

Clearly what is needed to end these things is a completely merciless approach. We've attacked / roided Rasputin, but in all honesty, it's not enough.

I just wish alliances would stop offering planetnaps, and stop taking in shipjumpers. I can't see it happening though...
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 15:08   #280
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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Originally Posted by qebab
I just wish alliances would stop offering planetnaps, and stop taking in shipjumpers. I can't see it happening though...
I disagree strongly with this sentiment. In my view, alliances don't exist as anything beyond an agreement between a large set of players. One can speak about the alliance as a greater sum of its parts, but what it begins with is an agreement to work for mutual benefit. In many ways the HC's responsibility is to arbitrate that this happens. When some players seek to further improve their benefit at the expense of others in the alliance, it is the HC's responsibility to catch it. It is also the HC's responsibility to seek[1] planet NAPs that will result in benefit for their players. You can't really ask them to turn their backs on that.

If a player feels it is in his benefit to seek this agreement with other people, they should be free to shop around. It's sad to see people leave hard work behind, but that doesn't make it bad.

I do think your point about planet NAPs focusing fire on the remaining planets is good and is one that isn't made often enough. In my opinion, a few planet NAPs can often be good because they allow certain players to build up large defense fleets they can use very actively (because they'll rarely need it to cover themselves). Mind you, this relies on the player actually being one of the most active defenders in the alliance. In this case I also think members will be willing to accept that it is a case of mutual benefit.

[1] Though really, they rarely need to actively seek, just enforce.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 15:17   #281
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Most pnapers are top players. Coincidence?
Tip: For your ally to finish high in ranks, having top players in tag is a must. Give some to get some.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 15:19   #282
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

when did your alliance last win anything
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 15:32   #283
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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Originally Posted by bwtmc
when did your alliance last win anything
i cant remember
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 15:33   #284
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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Originally Posted by bwtmc
when did your alliance last win anything
And you are?
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 15:41   #285
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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And you are?
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 15:50   #286
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

High Commander of eXilition, Shoshtard!
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:13   #287
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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Originally Posted by Stoom
Now, can someone please explain why ND HC thought that they could beat eXilition? That shit is not ok with me on a both a personal level and as representative of eXilition HC. We, and I, don't roll like that, and I would seriously appreciate Barrow and cura's recognizing of that fact.

haha. Maybe because, and I know this may come as a shock, you are not Jesus Christ reborn. That's right, though you would never guess by the assumption of omnipotence, eXilition HC is not the second coming of our Lord and Savior.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:16   #288
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
Now, can someone please explain why ND HC thought that they could beat eXilition? That shit is not ok with me on a both a personal level and as representative of eXilition HC. We, and I, don't roll like that, and I would seriously appreciate Barrow and cura's recognizing of that fact.
What? Are you stroking my ego in such a gentle manner?
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:23   #289
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoom
Now, can someone please explain why ND HC thought that they could beat eXilition? That shit is not ok with me on a both a personal level and as representative of eXilition HC. We, and I, don't roll like that, and I would seriously appreciate Barrow and cura's recognizing of that fact.
Facts are mate, you were getting close to breaking your morale this round. I think switching targetting to ND was as much for morale boost as it was for military gains. FO were quickly become bad targets, and we actually defend, if not very good, then quite well.

And believe me, I saw eXi morale drop whether you admit it or not. By the end of the session you had with us, the volume of ships sent at us was nearly halved from 110-120 fleets a night to 60-70 fleets a night. I admire your fighting spirit, your organization, activity and skill. But this round, you nearly got beaten on the finish line. It definately was close. If we had managed to get catches going... Too many if's. I didn't have the energy for it anymore, and still don't. I don't think I ever will play again like I did the last 3-4 weeks of this round. I turned my biorhythm back now, sleeping at nights instead of afternoons, and it feels a whole lot better.

I realize this is a serious reply to a not-so-serious post, but I just wanted to tell people that it could have been done. Even with the late start we got on the war, it could have been very, very close.

So don't despair, I'm sure next round will bring new opportunities, and new golden roids.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:25   #290
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
So don't despair, I'm sure next round will bring new opportunities, and new golden roids.
The primary reason I plan to play next round is to capture the production asteroid.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:26   #291
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Damn right Barrow hehe
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:27   #292
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

I am positively totally enjoying this humourous political game between ego's and egoettes from all alliances!

Also, imho, every single alliance reserves the right to go for a round win. If that means breaking off NAPs or treading ON (ffs. 2 letters forgotten) people, that is in their own mind to do so. Positive or negative rep built up by this is also deserved, as action = -reaction.

I for one truly hope for a very close shave between eXi, ND and FO at the last tick. Would be fun to have a photo finish, and imho all three (four?) have taken both good and bad steps this round. May the one with the longest leg extend it over the finish line...
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:28   #293
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
Most pnapers are top players. Coincidence?
Tip: For your ally to finish high in ranks, having top players in tag is a must. Give some to get some.
that perspective you have rain,

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
i cant remember
is probably why.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:30   #294
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
The primary reason I plan to play next round is to capture the production asteroid.
You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice.

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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 16:42   #295
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
that perspective you have rain,



is probably why.
So exi never had PNAPers in tag? Ahahaha, good one.
PS: Being part of #1 ally or even being HC of #1 ally doesnt make you a better person, nor does it mean you´re always right.
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 17:00   #296
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
So exi never had PNAPers in tag? Ahahaha, good one.
PS: Being part of #1 ally or even being HC of #1 ally doesnt make you a better person, nor does it mean you´re always right.
being you is a whole different thing tho
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 17:01   #297
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
So exi never had PNAPers in tag? Ahahaha, good one.
PS: Being part of #1 ally or even being HC of #1 ally doesnt make you a better person, nor does it mean you´re always right.
It does, however, mean that he was part of a group that managed to outplay the rest of the universe. When did your ally manage to do that?
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 17:04   #298
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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Originally Posted by Heartless
It does, however, mean that he was part of a group that managed to outplay the rest of the universe.
including asc, #1 exi muppet
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 17:04   #299
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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Originally Posted by Jester
What, like TGV is being used as peons for ND?
Care to expand on that?
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Unread 4 Dec 2006, 17:29   #300
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Re: NewDawn's Official Proposal to Furious Omen

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Originally Posted by Kargool
Care to expand on that?
All i know is my hostile count from TGV certainly has expanded when a certain galmate didnt get roided
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