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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:19   #51
MrL_JaKiri
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
I still don't see the correlation between number of people affected and level of justification or acceptability.
In a large group, many will gather opinion by looking to 'authority figures'; in a group this size, then everyone tends to make their own opinion. Plus everyone ignores DM.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:26   #52
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Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
In a large group, many will gather opinion by looking to 'authority figures'; in a group this size, then everyone tends to make their own opinion. Plus everyone ignores DM.
That is not a relevant answer.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:37   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
That is not a relevant answer.
How about a community of 2 people? 5 people? 10?
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:38   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
That is not a relevant answer.
Why not? 'Character assassination', libel and the like are only 'naughty' because it's felt that people will be unfairly tarnished because decisions are made with the false information included. As this isn't the case here, it isn't 'naughty', and therefore doesn't matter if DM does it.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:48   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
How about a community of 2 people? 5 people? 10?
What?
Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Why not? 'Character assassination', libel and the like are only 'naughty' because it's felt that people will be unfairly tarnished because decisions are made with the false information included. As this isn't the case here, it isn't 'naughty', and therefore doesn't matter if DM does it.
The number of people affected is not relevant to the fact that it should not happen in the first place. And you still haven't filled in the gap between me saying it happens, and you saying it doesn't.

You can't just simply 'decide' that people are not influenced by the actions of mods when they mock forum members, just because you rather don't fancy the idea. There is evidence of the opposite in this very thread for god's sake. LOOK:
Quote:
Originally posted by queball
I thought it was quite imaginative of DM. Like the guys who made the model of some Legoland employee with his arm in a sling. Yeah, it might have been offensive, but it was cool.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:50   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
You can't just simply 'decide' that people are not influenced by the actions of mods when they mock forum members, just because you rather don't fancy the idea. There is evidence of the opposite in this very thread for god's sake. LOOK:
Do I have to stop mocking nod?

ps.

That simply said he thought it was funny, not that because DM changed the thread title q's opinion was altered from 'CT is the best man alive' to 'CT is THE SCUM OF THE EARTH'.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:55   #57
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Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Do I have to stop mocking nod?
Morally, yes. Realistically, don't be stupid.
Quote:
That simply said he thought it was funny, not that because DM changed the thread title q's opinion was altered from 'CT is the best man alive' to 'CT is THE SCUM OF THE EARTH'.
I don't know who you are arguing against but it's not me.

I have not linked user opinions to mod behaviour anywhere in this thread.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 18:58   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
I have not linked user opinions to mod behaviour anywhere in this thread.
If you weren't, then what the hell was the bit I quoted about? 'People respond to things mods say'? Well wow.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:08   #59
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Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
If you weren't, then what the hell was the bit I quoted about? 'People respond to things mods say'? Well wow.
Being influenced by something somebody said is not directly equivalent to forming an opinion based purely on that source of information. You know this.

Let's make this absolutely clear. What I am arguing FOR here is the case that it is morally objectionable for moderators - or other authority figures - to use their privileges in order to publically mock or humiliate users.

I am not arguing as my case that people will take away brand new opinions that don't fit with their character, and you know full well I am not so naive as to believe that.

I do accept that people may - over time - shift their opinions in a certain direction based on what they are inundated with here (or anywhere really, it could be any multiuser media source). You see this here every day. However, although this is an interesting area of discussion I do not see any need to incorporate it into my case as described above.

And finally, as I have explained, I see no reason why the number of people affected or present makes a difference. The only reason the numbers argument came up was because Chojin posted about the size of the forum. If you are going to say that my objection to the behaviour of mods should be lessened if less people are exposed, you might as well claim that Hitler would have got away with it if he'd only killed 200 fewer Jews. Not that I think mods are like Hitler, ofc.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:13   #60
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I wasn't arguing that size matters because of the 'magnitude of the crime', but because different group dynamics are in effect.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:20   #61
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This thread really is too fking dull to continue.

Sayonara, life isn't perfect and the internet is full of horrible people like me, maybe you should just switch off your PC, disconnect your modem and go back to reading books about cute princesses and flufflywuffly nice places where everyone is lovely and friendly and nothing ever goes wrong and noone ever makes a joke at anyone elses expense.

And if anyone calls me old ever again, I shall probably sue for defamation of character and something else that will make people think 'OMFG WHAT A RETARD'

There, can I resign again now?*








*I'm not resigning
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:22   #62
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You don't like what I'm saying so you fall back on spewing.

How very constructive and mature, DM.

You can do better than that.

I am not asking for perfection, I am voicing an opinion relating to the state of affairs on forums in general using this forum as a case example. If you don't agree, fair enough, but your response has simply proven CrashTest's point. QED.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:26   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
I wasn't arguing that size matters because of the 'magnitude of the crime', but because different group dynamics are in effect.
Different group dynamics are in effect therefore public humiliation of certain users by mods is acceptable?
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:31   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
Different group dynamics are in effect therefore public humiliation of certain users by mods is acceptable?
My point was that 'public humiliation' is purely something based in group dynamics.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:34   #65
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My point was that 'public humiliation' is purely something based in group dynamics.
Still not being overly generous with the explanation of your point, Mark.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:38   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
You don't like what I'm saying so you fall back on spewing.

How very constructive and mature, DM.

You can do better than that.
You can go on posting whatever you like, I'm still going to read it and think 'get a life'.

As for doing better, yes, no doubt I could be constructive and point out my reasons for editing the title of a thread that was a bltanat troll on the status of prisoners in Cuba.

So, I had a bit of fun at the expense of a user. Oh dear.

Well, when the First Bill of Rights of the Internet gets written and enforced, I'll be sure to say sorry.

TTFN
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:49   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
Still not being overly generous with the explanation of your point, Mark.
My point was.

That.

In a well established group as this, DM's actions are unlikely to change anything as it's an isolated untargeted event.

You're correct in saying it's wrong if there's a campaign to discredit a user, or if the person is new, but for someone who's been around for quite some time the individual effect is negligable at best.

ps.

When I saw the thread at first I thought he called it that and that it was an ok troll. When I found out DM edited it, I just thought he was an idiot.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 19:52   #68
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As for doing better, yes, no doubt I could be constructive and point out my reasons for editing the title of a thread that was a bltanat troll on the status of prisoners in Cuba.
This isn't just about you, and if you think I am having a go at you and you alone for that one indiscretion then you are mistaken.

I am discussing what I see as being an interesting subject. You know, on these discussion boards. If you want to become some kind of martyr then go right ahead, but bear in mind that so far your antagonsim has just supported my case.

I realise you don't care what people think of you here, and frankly I think that's a healthy way to deal with forums. But it would be negligent of you as a moderator if you were not concerned to some degree that the less worldly-wide, younger and more impressionable users could be unnecessarily damaged by a moment of careless flipancy on (not just) your part.

Since you have the relevant experience it would be a much more interesting conversation if you did think about it a bit instead of going all uber-defensive.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:22   #69
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Righto, discussion ahoy.

yes, it's fair to say that these younger and more impressionable users who 'might', and I stress 'might', be using this forum should be somehow protected, which is, in essence, why the mods are here.

But the reason I'm apparently getting defensive is because, yet again, the moral high ground has been jumped on as a standpoint from which to berate moderators behaviour, despite the fact that this very standpoint is the last thing on posters minds for almost all their time on the boards.
I suppose the other option that, maybe, other mods would have taken, would be to post links to several threads and ask the users to pick their 'Troll of the Day'. Maybe it would have been more subtle, maybe not. I doubt this little lot would've been jumping around quite as much.

I'm not going to apologise, MrL can think I'm an idiot all he likes, I think he spams too much, but there you go.

As you so nicely pointed out, I care little, if at all about my 'standing' here, this has been blown out of all proportion because the user in question made this second thread which brings up the usual cycle of 'the mods are crap' and gives the bored users something else from 'LOL I HAD A CRAP AND TEH TURD LOOKED LIKE TERRY WOGAN' type threads.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:34   #70
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Now I can see your point of view on the matter. Huzzah!

I thought MrL was calling Crash an idiot, not you?
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:36   #71
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What we've all missed is that DM DID NOT INSULT CRASHTESTER IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. To say someone is trolling when they are trolling (in the considered opinion of our beloved establishment) is not to mock them. It's not like he edited the title of the thread to say "Crashtester is a fag", he edited it to reflect the actual content in his opinion and he was correct.








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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:41   #72
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sayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nice
Again, if you look at my original post I did not even mention DM. I am talking of a more general trend.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...68#post2481168
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:44   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by BarbieKen
Problem is the 'friends of friends' threatment.

If MrL/Kurashima was to start a gimmick, it would just be cool and witty, but since John Doe does it, it's stupid and boring.

Notice the double standards..

Kurashima has run 3 gimmick accounts in the last 6 months. None of them lasted longer than 12 hours , and all were hounded to death by the "Gimmick Paranoia" which runs rampant on these boards.

Why bother , nobody gives a **** about you trying to entertain them.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:46   #74
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Dude, I've broken more rules on this forum than most people here. Yeah, the mods are assholes. So are teachers. So are parents, so are police, so are administrators, judges, doctors, lawyers, and just about everyone you will ever meet, at some time.

The fact that you seem to care so much is f*ucking hilarious.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:47   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayonara
Again, if you look at my original post I did not even mention DM. I am talking of a more general trend.
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...68#post2481168
Quote:
Making a title more descriptive is one thing - but changing it to degrade a forum member in front of their peers is not the sort of behaviour I would tolerate from any of the mods on the boards I administer.
This was not his intention and this was not the result. And DM did remain impartial, he was perfectly correct in renaming the thread.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:51   #76
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This thread has had close to five times the number of posts the original thread that it was created to complain about had. Aren't we all ignoring the deeper meaning here? Nobody cares, people just like to complain. If you really have a problem/suggestion pm me, any of the other GD mods or the admins. We do listen and we aren't here purely to abuse our power. I bid you adieu.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 20:59   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
This was not his intention and this was not the result. And DM did remain impartial, he was perfectly correct in renaming the thread.

Whereas i would have changed it to "Crashtester is a Twat"

Youre "Raging against the Machine" , switching from Moral High Ground to Champion of the People with every post. Build a reputation as someone who is unfairly criticised with every post he makes , and then see your popularity rise as the board masses behind you against teh "Evuhl Mods".

To quote a much overused phrase

"Old"

Its been done a hundred times before. Its the manipulation of a small social group by playing on the lack of freedom given to them by a governing power. Its what a speechwriter would look for in giving a revolutionary leader a stirring speech to whip the people into a frenzy and help them overthrow the ruling classes.

What it does it create ill feeling towards the mods who are doing a good job for no recognition and a ****load of abuse. Nobody is perfect, nobody does a perfect job, and everyone is , at some point , going to do or say something which results in someone saying "Thats not fair".

If you go onto a public noticeboard and say "Down with the Government" , people agree or disagree. Thats the situation here, it always has been, and as long as people perceive there to be a "Ruling Class" within the boards , theyll always demand fair treatment, even when their own actions are less than perfect.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 21:13   #78
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Re: Troll of the week: Complaint

Quote:
Originally posted by CrashTester
So, I have an opinion which may not conform to the majority of others and this causes people of dubious intelligence to label me a 'troll'. But thats to be expected when you hang around people who have shoe sizes which match their IQ.
I don't think it's having a minority opinion that did it. Look at Dante Hicks, he doesn't have any trouble and nobody agrees with him, anywhere on the planet, ever.

No, i think its the abuse, the attention seeking, and the tedium of your posts.

i'm two cents out of pocket now, be grateful.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 21:26   #79
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this thread is now about potatoes




What Makes Idaho Potatoe Different?

Idaho's unique environment provides nearly perfect growing conditions for potatoes. The soil, water, clean air and climate in Idaho contribute to those consistently high-quality potatoes that have made Idaho famous for so many years. Idaho's rich volcanic soil is ideally suited for potatoes. Warm, sunny days, cool nights and water from melting snow in nearby mountains make the perfect combination for growing the world's best potatoes...

Those scenic mountains collect snow all winter, which melts and flows crystal clear into large surface and underground reservoirs. That snow water is used to irrigate potatoes with irrigation systems that apply the right amount of water when it's needed.And, our registered certification mark,the Grown in Idaho seal, is your assurance that you are getting Genuine Idaho Potatoes

Last edited by Nodrog; 21 Jul 2003 at 21:38.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 21:34   #80
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Us cool kids used to smoke potatoes, back in the day.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:28   #81
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:28   #82
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:42   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
this thread is now about potatoes
The mission of the Washington State Potato Commission is to serve the potato growers of Washington State. The main function of the Washington State Potato Commission is to work toward the enhancement of marketing opportunities through promotion, advanced production and cultural practices through research, and preserve the rights and enhance the ability of growers to produce potatoes through legislative and regulatory actions. The Washington State Potato Commission and its members are to act to the benefit of all Washington potato growers.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:46   #84
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Lets get jonny to tell us about potatoes
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:49   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Lets get jonny to tell us about potatoes
I grow my own! Seriously, they taste much nicer.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:51   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I grow my own! Seriously, they taste much nicer.
Vampy grows her own, YOU ATTENTION WHORE
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:55   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Vampy grows her own, YOU ATTENTION WHORE
Who? And what?
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:57   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
this thread is now about potatoes




What Makes Idaho Potatoe Different?
I was thinking of starting a MrL-posting style gimmick too, but I think I would have at least gone to the trouble to register a new account.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 22:57   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
Kurashima has run 3 gimmick accounts in the last 6 months. None of them lasted longer than 12 hours , and all were hounded to death by the "Gimmick Paranoia" which runs rampant on these boards.

Why bother , nobody gives a **** about you trying to entertain them.
If we cared we'd laugh?
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 23:00   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
Kurashima has run 3 gimmick accounts in the last 6 months. None of them lasted longer than 12 hours , and all were hounded to death by the "Gimmick Paranoia" which runs rampant on these boards.

Why bother , nobody gives a **** about you trying to entertain them.
I see the problem as twofold.

1. There are no new accounts on here. Ever.

So it's pretty safe to assume that any new account is going to be a gimmick, and that kills THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE.

2. The "Everyone is a humorless faggot" factor.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 23:01   #91
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i want to know more about these 13,000 people that arent posting.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 23:04   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Who? And what?
That susan woman, and some form of pot plant.
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Unread 21 Jul 2003, 23:06   #93
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Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Dante Hicks has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
Kurashima has run 3 gimmick accounts in the last 6 months.
3 too many.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 10:19   #94
BarbieKen
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
What we've all missed is that DM DID NOT INSULT CRASHTESTER IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. To say someone is trolling when they are trolling (in the considered opinion of our beloved establishment) is not to mock them. It's not like he edited the title of the thread to say "Crashtester is a fag", he edited it to reflect the actual content in his opinion and he was correct.
PS

Yeah right! The establishment could not have cared less if it was mocking or non mocking aslong as it's pop to dislike the user's opinions.
 
Unread 22 Jul 2003, 10:24   #95
SilverSmoke
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SilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so littleSilverSmoke contributes so much and asks for so little
Quote:
Originally posted by Nusselt
i want to know more about these 13,000 people that arent posting.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 10:30   #96
JonnyBGood
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JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.JonnyBGood has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.


Aha you're online at 10am. Oh wait :(








PS If he was quitting the forums he was hardly going to care what anyone said about him was he? It'd be like you suing someone you knew 10 years ago who is now police officer and who said mean and nasty things about you. Also for ****s sake will you people just let this thread die the death it deserves heh.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 10:32   #97
Proteus
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Location: City of London
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Proteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriendProteus needs a job and a girlfriend
Quote:
Originally posted by acropolis
I see the problem as twofold.

1. There are no new accounts on here. Ever.

So it's pretty safe to assume that any new account is going to be a gimmick, and that kills THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE.
I'm not a gimmick.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson
He was crowned in York Cathedral as 'Expert in the West' by Pope Urban III in 1186.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 11:50   #98
BarbieKen
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Aha you're online at 10am. Oh wait

PS If he was quitting the forums he was hardly going to care what anyone said about him was he? It'd be like you suing someone you knew 10 years ago who is now police officer and who said mean and nasty things about you. Also for ****s sake will you people just let this thread die the death it deserves heh.
It's not decent, and also proves that this kind of behaviour is accepted aslong as it's done by the moderators. There is a reason that this is not a function for the public, and that reason is that whomever made them mods trusted they had higher standards. What's been proved on many occasions is that many of the current mods are in many cases worse, at best equal to the posters.

And honestly, claiming that some guy is committing suicide can't really be compared to a quit note, now can it?
 
Unread 22 Jul 2003, 12:40   #99
sayonara
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Location: Sunny Leeds \o/
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sayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nice
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurashima
Its been done a hundred times before. Its the manipulation of a small social group by playing on the lack of freedom given to them by a governing power.
This has nothing to do with the freedom of users. I completely agree that troll posts should be moderated, and if the author whines they are being treated "unfairly" then the best they should hope for is a rolleyes.

I realise this looks like mod-bashing and that the mods have a difficult and time-consuming job to do, for which they get little thanks from the users. However, what I am talking about has nothing to do with fairness. For moderators to make posts that directly offend or mock members smacks of a lack of professionalism and is in no way impartial.

One cannot expect to be placed in a position of authority over one's peers and remain "one of the gang" without some observable degree of diplomacy and restraint. Keeping this in mind might save the mods from a lot of the flak you say they get from users, which would surely be in everybody's interests.
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Unread 22 Jul 2003, 12:43   #100
sayonara
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sayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nicesayonara is just really nice
Quote:
Originally posted by Mirai
The fact that you seem to care so much is f*ucking hilarious.
That says more about you than it does about anybody else.
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