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Unread 17 May 2005, 22:35   #51
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Smooth. Using Revoltions online capability you can download nearly every pre-gamecube game ever produced for a nintendo console. That, I am going to like. All those games I missed are mine, finally!

And I'm still waiting to see the controller.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 22:38   #52
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by *donkie*
And I'm still waiting to see the controller.
I've seen a few "plausable" leaked designs; I think the "dual hand wireless*" arrangement is an excellent idea (especially if coupled with a way of finding the damn things if you lose them, which you invariably will).

*One of the "leaked" designs was one where the controller is essentially split into two, held in the way that one would hold the butt of a gun, or a joystick, with the d-pad or stick on top and buttons on the front. Depending on how well it's designed, it could either be the best thing ever for those with varying hand sizes (either larger or smaller than the design case) or really terrible to use.
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Unread 17 May 2005, 22:49   #53
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I've seen a few "plausable" leaked designs; I think the "dual hand wireless*" arrangement is an excellent idea (especially if coupled with a way of finding the damn things if you lose them, which you invariably will).

*One of the "leaked" designs was one where the controller is essentially split into two, held in the way that one would hold the butt of a gun, or a joystick, with the d-pad or stick on top and buttons on the front. Depending on how well it's designed, it could either be the best thing ever for those with varying hand sizes (either larger or smaller than the design case) or really terrible to use.
there was a PS1 controller a lot like this sounds which i will now try to get the name of.

aha!

behold a small image.

edit for making my point make any sense: basically the idea would be two of these tacked together then?
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Unread 17 May 2005, 22:57   #54
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Not tacked together, completely independent. Wireless, hold one in one hand and one in the other. Or one per person. Who knows!
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Unread 17 May 2005, 23:10   #55
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

hello there revolution

Revolution will be "two-to-three times more powerful than GameCube," according to Nintendo.

edit: Wow great. NES, SNES and N64. WOW. You can already play these on X-Box.

Last edited by LHC; 17 May 2005 at 23:20.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 06:56   #56
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin
ps3 can render games with 128 bit. sounds exorbitant
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
So can the ps2, can't it?
No, you are thinking of the PS2 being a 128bit system, where Lupin is referring to the ability of the PS3 to have 128bit floating point pixel accuracy (which PS2 had the more classic 32bit ARGB).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
It's not, it's just there's been no need to use it before, as we're approaching the limits on the amount of memory that 32 bit can address.

There's nothing inherently "better" about a higher number of bits, it just suggests a higher limit - notice that over the past few years consoles have moved from being described simply by their number of bits towards one based around actual specification.
Thats not actually correct. Yes, the number of bits listed for the system refers to the bus width, and the largest type available for use. But its also important for any form of vector coding (i.e SIMD) where one instruction will work on 128 bit registers which consists of 4 floats for example.
From memory, the PS2 EE core was dual piped using 128bit, each instruction consisting of 32 bit instruction, 32 bit value, 32 bit second instruction, 32 bit second value.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 08:12   #57
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

^^^Righty ho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
edit: Wow great. NES, SNES and N64. WOW. You can already play these on X-Box.
Not legally, however, and most people will not have used their X-Box for such a thing.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 10:46   #58
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
Furthermore, the PSP will almost certainly hammer the DS into oblivion
Apparantly, the DS has twice the worldwide sales of the PSP.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 12:53   #59
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
^^^Righty ho.



Not legally, however, and most people will not have used their X-Box for such a thing.
I have.. fnar!
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Unread 18 May 2005, 13:07   #60
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
I have.. fnar!
Well done.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 14:44   #61
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
I have.. fnar!
expect to have Nintendos many many lawyers knocking on your door very soon
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Unread 18 May 2005, 15:00   #62
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
Revolution will be "two-to-three times more powerful than GameCube," according to Nintendo.
XboX and PS3 is claimed to be 15 times and 30 times more powerful than their predecessor - can't remember which was supposed to be 15, and which to be 30, though.

However, it's important to remember what happened before the last generation was released: Microsoft and Sony made big boasts about what their machines would perform, but failed miserably at reaching these goals, whereas Nintendo more-or-less reached it. (This is starting to be a few years ago, so I don't have any numbers or links for this...)
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Unread 18 May 2005, 15:15   #63
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukePaul
XboX and PS3 is claimed to be 15 times and 30 times more powerful than their predecessor - can't remember which was supposed to be 15, and which to be 30, though.
X360 15, PS3 32 (which isn't that much different, given that the X-Box is much more powerful than the PS2).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukePaul
However, it's important to remember what happened before the last generation was released: Microsoft and Sony made big boasts about what their machines would perform, but failed miserably at reaching these goals, whereas Nintendo more-or-less reached it. (This is starting to be a few years ago, so I don't have any numbers or links for this...)
That's definitely true. Sony put forward a whole host of claims for the PS2, most notably that it could render 70 million polys a second. Nintendo said that the GC could do 16 million, and were scoffed at.

It then turned out that the PS2 could render 70 million basic untextured polys a second, but only about 12 million of the full textured in game variety, which is what Nintendo were talking about, and the Gamecube is recognised to be the 2nd most powerful in this iteration, after the X-Box, with the PS2 way behind.

However, the PS2 came out a significant amount of time before Microsoft and Nintendo's efforts, so the pattern is unlikely to be repeated.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 15:17   #64
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukePaul
XboX and PS3 is claimed to be 15 times and 30 times more powerful than their predecessor - can't remember which was supposed to be 15, and which to be 30, though.

However, it's important to remember what happened before the last generation was released: Microsoft and Sony made big boasts about what their machines would perform, but failed miserably at reaching these goals, whereas Nintendo more-or-less reached it. (This is starting to be a few years ago, so I don't have any numbers or links for this...)
Xbox360 12-15x Xbox
PS£ 35x PS2
Rev 2-3x GC

Nintendo looks like it'll have a big advantage on size, and as those specs aren't that exorbitant, I'd expect it to be a lot cheaper in price. Along with innovative and 'party' games, I think they'll find a good market. I certainly can't afford a £200/300 console at the moment, but would still like to play new games. Having something like the rev tucked beside the TV seems ideal.
Also, i'd imagine it'll be a lot cheaper to design the games for it than the other two consoles (hopefully) leading to a good supply of third party games as well.
That said, I'm not expecting to be blown away by the p0w3r!!1! of the Revolution, compared with the 360 and PS3.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 15:21   #65
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Apparantly, the DS has twice the worldwide sales of the PSP.
Hard to compare worldwide sales though, as the PSP isnt released in a fair number of places yet.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 15:24   #66
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamMak
Nintendo looks like it'll have a big advantage on size, and as those specs aren't that exorbitant, I'd expect it to be a lot cheaper in price. Along with innovative and 'party' games, I think they'll find a good market. I certainly can't afford a £200/300 console at the moment, but would still like to play new games. Having something like the rev tucked beside the TV seems ideal.
GC was actually extremely cheap to produce, and they made a profit for each one they sold. Unlike MS, who had to pay huge loads of money for the DVD license thingy, and basically lost money all around. They were just trying to build a market, anyway.

Yes, I am a Nintendo fanboy
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Unread 18 May 2005, 15:31   #67
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamMak
Nintendo looks like it'll have a big advantage on size, and as those specs aren't that exorbitant, I'd expect it to be a lot cheaper in price. Along with innovative and 'party' games, I think they'll find a good market. I certainly can't afford a £200/300 console at the moment, but would still like to play new games. Having something like the rev tucked beside the TV seems ideal.
Also, i'd imagine it'll be a lot cheaper to design the games for it than the other two consoles (hopefully) leading to a good supply of third party games as well.
That said, I'm not expecting to be blown away by the p0w3r!!1! of the Revolution, compared with the 360 and PS3.
Apparently, they are looking to break out of tradition a little and start focusing on more serious FPS type games and not as much on fuzzy feel good party games this time round.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 15:33   #68
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
Apparently, they are looking to break out of tradition a little and start focusing on more serious FPS type games and not as much on fuzzy feel good party games this time round.
Hey, gets my vote
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Unread 18 May 2005, 16:41   #69
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Nintendo are the only company that made a proft on this generation's consoles (out of NGC, PS2 and X-Box) which says a lot: they know how to market and produce a console efficiently in terms of economic and operational factors and so fourth. They're also the wisest imo. Iirc. they scraped the proposed idea for a system like X-Box Live for the Gamecube because they said there wasn't any money in there - look at what happened to Microsoft losing so much money on that. True, they will make use of broadband connections this time around to connect players etc. but nothing like the proposed X-Box Live system - they will have something I suspect like what the new X-Box Live system will feature - a marketplace to purchase ie: special mods etc. - this is said on the basis of being able to download all the pre-ngc games - they're hardly going to let people download them to the Rev for free? (even then, how will they be stored?)
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Unread 18 May 2005, 16:53   #70
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

There's no hard disk on the current iteration of the revolution, but that dosn't mark it off forever. There are memory sticks available for the current mod they have.

(watched the press-release on gamespot for the info).
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Unread 18 May 2005, 17:27   #71
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Hard to compare worldwide sales though, as the PSP isnt released in a fair number of places yet.
Not really, the PSP hasn't been the monster that everyone has believed it to be yet. The Nintendo DS has only struggled on software sales as Nintendo upped it's target for the hardware itself.

Considering the DS was not meant to be Nintendo's main answer to the PSP, it's doing pretty well against it - maintaining Nintendo's lead in the portable market.

The PSP is going to be hampered by Nintendo's Micro GB if it's reasonably priced as there have been alot of demand for GBA SP's after the DS release. (Preowned cheap ones at least). The main downfall for the PSP at the moment is the games - it needs to get a stronger library before it can begin to knock Nintendo from its top spot in that portion of the market.

For the record - my store has done around 20 or so PSP preorders. That's not so great yet as we managed over 100 with the DS. The PSP's release puts it as 'Xmas present' idea in Europe.

As for the next generation consoles, I think the controller for the PS3 looks ugly (as does the console) but those pre-rendered screenshots looked yummy. I felt underwhelmed by the Revolution as there was nothing revolutionary about it. Currently, I'm thinking I will probably get the Xbox 360 and Revolution. I don't trust Sony after what I know about it this generation.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 17:40   #72
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
Nintendo are the only company that made a proft on this generation's consoles (out of NGC, PS2 and X-Box)
i really, really, really doubt this. iirc, SCE is responsible for about half of sony's total profits right now - which is a lot of profit.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 17:46   #73
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

I think Androme was refering to the hardware. Nintendo were the only company to manage to squeeze profit out of selling gamecubes, whereas Microsoft and Sony had to take losses and make up on the software.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 18:00   #74
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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I think Androme was refering to the hardware. Nintendo were the only company to manage to squeeze profit out of selling gamecubes, whereas Microsoft and Sony had to take losses and make up on the software.
so was i...
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Unread 18 May 2005, 19:39   #75
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Correct donkie.

Phang, I obtained that from sources on IGN and Gamespot
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Unread 18 May 2005, 19:41   #76
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

isn't it rediculously artificial to distinguish hardware from software profits in this industry?
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Unread 18 May 2005, 20:01   #77
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
isn't it rediculously artificial to distinguish hardware from software profits in this industry?
no, because the two are different markets. very closely linked, aye, but the lack of software monopolies for the hardware producers means the two can easily be delinked. if the console is unprofitable but the software is not, you can stop selling consoles and make software for other companies (ie SEGA). if the hardware makes money but the games not so much, you can cut back your development studios (which Sony and microsoft have both done at different times, i believe).


incidentally and off topic, didn't sony buy out square? i ask because revolution/xbox/DS all seem to be getting FF games. FFTA was fine, for example, because it wasn't a rival platform at the time, but it's pretty bizarre now.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 20:13   #78
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Phang
no, because the two are different markets. very closely linked, aye, but the lack of software monopolies for the hardware producers means the two can easily be delinked. if the console is unprofitable but the software is not, you can stop selling consoles and make software for other companies (ie SEGA). if the hardware makes money but the games not so much, you can cut back your development studios (which Sony and microsoft have both done at different times, i believe).


incidentally and off topic, didn't sony buy out square? i ask because revolution/xbox/DS all seem to be getting FF games. FFTA was fine, for example, because it wasn't a rival platform at the time, but it's pretty bizarre now.
No, Sony bailed Square out with some money but never actually bought them out.

It's not like Rare/Microsoft at all.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 20:20   #79
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Zh|l
No, Sony bailed Square out with some money but never actually bought them out.
i knew that bit, but i thought they got a majority share about 5 months later. damnable playstation magazines with their lies
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Unread 18 May 2005, 20:41   #80
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Phang
i knew that bit, but i thought they got a majority share about 5 months later. damnable playstation magazines with their lies
I never heard of that part. I remember when FF:CC was announced for the Gamecube it shocked people.

I think Square-Enix has become convinced it can make more money by going cross-platform.
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Unread 18 May 2005, 22:06   #81
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Zh|l
I think Square-Enix has become convinced it can make more money by going cross-platform.
Name an example that didn't make more money by going cross-platform...?
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Unread 19 May 2005, 08:14   #82
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Or it could just be a fancy way of getting more money from Sony. As it stands now, the FF series is one of the main reason many people go for PS. If Square announces it will start producing games for all platforms, then Sony might very well give them some very lucrative offers, to keep them close.

Seriously, what big series does PS have? Metal Gear Solid, FF, Devil May Cry? Anything else?
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Unread 19 May 2005, 09:26   #83
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

....gta?
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Unread 19 May 2005, 16:40   #84
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

gta is on the x box as well though.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 16:46   #85
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
Name an example that didn't make more money by going cross-platform...?
My comment was more leaning to the fact that Sony could offer £££ of dosh to keep someone exclusive which counteracts what extra money Square-Enix could make from going cross-platform.

That's the entire point of exclusivity for the consoles. It's simply big pay-offs to keep games on one console, as normally a game could be ported and stand a chance of making more money.

Note that going cross platform isn't a guarantee to more money however - the development costs in porting to the Xbox and Cube from the PS2 are quite high, due to the nature of coding being individual for all three machines. I've heard that Xbox/Cube aren't too bad - but the PS2 is a pain.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 18:02   #86
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by DukePaul
Seriously, what big series does PS have? Metal Gear Solid, FF, Devil May Cry? Anything else?
Tekken, Gran Turismo

edit: the Gameboy Micro has the world's smallest screen and therefore will suck by the way

Last edited by LHC; 19 May 2005 at 21:20.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 21:23   #87
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by vampire_lestat
gta is on the x box as well though.
And on the PC. However, the playstation got all of them well in advance, and there's murmours of a total exclusivity deal next time.

Gran Turismo, there's another one too.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 22:37   #88
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by LHC
edit: the Gameboy Micro has the world's smallest screen and therefore will suck by the way
errr... it's the same size as the GBA was, i didn't see the GBA "sucking"
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Unread 19 May 2005, 22:40   #89
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

It had a terribly small screen though.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 22:42   #90
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
It had a terribly small screen though.
it's the largest GB screen yet (i'm not sure if the DS screen is larger or the same size)
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Unread 19 May 2005, 23:06   #91
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
....gta?
Speaking of that, when will it ****ing be released on PC?
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Unread 19 May 2005, 23:10   #92
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm
Speaking of that, when will it ****ing be released on PC?
10th June is when GTA:SA is being released for both Xbox/PC.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 23:24   #93
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by Zh|l
10th June is when GTA:SA is being released for both Xbox/PC.
That's going down in my diary.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 23:30   #94
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

GTA:SA on PC will be sweet.

I just looked on IGN... woohoo Quake 4 has finally been developed... but what's rather disappointing is the same feel of Doom 3.... the shots taken like nearly 2 years ago (although hardly any) looked bloody good and completely different... what have they done?! It's not that they're bad, but Doom was always pretty much in one direction and Quake (forget game engines) was on a rather different scale. Heh. Hopefully Quake 4 should deliver on what Quake 3 was psycologically described as: stress relief.
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Unread 19 May 2005, 23:34   #95
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4562705.stm

Bit on the future of games development.

Not completely on track with where the thread's been heading but nevermind.
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Unread 20 May 2005, 00:28   #96
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Androme, Quake IV is being made by Raven.

Raven.
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Unread 21 May 2005, 10:22   #97
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

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Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Androme, Quake IV is being made by Raven.

Raven.
Uh? I presumed id software were producing it
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Unread 21 May 2005, 10:23   #98
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
Uh? I presumed id software were producing it
You wish.
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Unread 21 May 2005, 10:43   #99
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
Correct donkie.

Phang, I obtained that from sources on IGN and Gamespot
I'm pretty sure from the same sources or simular was information that Nintendo lost out big time on the hardware front, selling less than 1/3 of what they predicted to sell in Japan.



On the Quake 4 note, I'm not sure if you two are suggesting dev by Raven is a positive or negative. From my perspective it's a good thing, they've made a lot of great games in the past. Also the pictures from the Jolt preview of what they've done with the Doom 3 engine look awesome. My only genuine concern is the decision to goto a squad based system instead of lonewolf, to me that was a large part of the Quake experience.
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Unread 21 May 2005, 11:07   #100
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Re: Next Gen Consoles

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
I'm pretty sure from the same sources or simular was information that Nintendo lost out big time on the hardware front, selling less than 1/3 of what they predicted to sell in Japan.
That's a seperate issue. If I make £100,000,000,000,000 profit on each unit I sell (including set up costs, and R&D and the like), and I only sell one after targeting 5,000,000 sales, is that a "failure"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
From my perspective it's a good thing, they've made a lot of great games in the past.
If you like, and don't see anything wrong with, the single players of Jedi Outcast, Jedi Academy, Soldier of Fortune, Soldier of Fortune 2, Elite Force, Elite Force 2 and the rest, then I advise you to pick up this great game called "Half Life" that's coming out next year as you're obviously mentally stuck in 1997.
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