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7 Jan 2012, 16:15
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#51
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ToF
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
the reasons this is a horrible change, in my opinion, are the following:
it makes for a more defensive universe. as attack times will be spread out, and with such a small player base this means many fewer attacks getting through. the reason it works in the favour of more hardcore players/alliances is that they will still launch at the times when pa is least active, meaning they have a much higher chance of succeeding in attacks.
none of these little changes are going to do what PA needs, and that is an increase in the player base. the only thing that will do that is some for of advertising/game promotion. until that happens this is all somewhat irrelevant.
__________________
[19:10] <coffee-> dont worry about Reincarnate he is an angry man
R1 - 9 none | R10.5 - 13 [ToF] | R14 [Reunion] | R15-17 [Subh] | R18 - 36 PA vacation | R37 [Evo] | R38 [NFI] | R39 & 40 [ToF] | R41 [Omega] | R42 - 47 [ToF][HC]
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7 Jan 2012, 16:42
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#52
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killeah
Example: If a 40 man ally (assuming all 40 are hardcore livelaunchers - which I actually doubt even exists toxday in PA) launch at 03:00 - but the remaining universe - due to new rules wait till 08:00. The attack is bound to fail due to available def fleets. Which actually means that they never would land anything.
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But the 'live launchers' are still launching when the majority of PA is asleep meaning less defence available and alliance still relying on being able to wake peopel up with sms and phone calls to get defence. Where as everyone else is now launching when the majority of PA are awake (specifically within those early EU hours when people are checking the game before work and such, probably PA's most active period (6am - 10am gametime)) meaning there will be lots of bodies around to send defence and dc the calls. Remember another part of the positives of launching at 3am is that there isnt as many people online to actually DC the calls let alone defend them...
I dont so much have issue with the idea itself of shortening PL, i reckon if PA was a thriving active game then it would be a positive but we have to face facts and say its not and wont be again, all this move is really doing making attacking harder in the long run and that is something PA really doesnt need.
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7 Jan 2012, 16:44
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#53
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
tbh, it is an illusion to think attacktimes will change much due to the removal of prelaunch. In the Pre-PL days the attacktimes were exactly the same as they are now (i dare even say that the hardcore alliances tend to launch later the past few rounds). People attack at these times because the chance you get defended against is lowest.
What it will do is require more nighttime activity (instead of only being actively awake at nights one knows they will get inc, ppl will now have to be awake EVERY night to set their attack). It's fairly easy to see that only the more hardcore alliances will be able to meet these demands. Because smaller alliances won't be able to meet these demands they will have to attack at other times when more def is around. Effectively this means members of smaller alliances will be even smaller. And smaller alliances will have even less of an impact on the political landscape, possibly even be ignored fully.
The difference between active and casual players will get bigger. Top-tier alliances/galaxies will have less interest in more casual players (as they won't be able to meet the demands of being in a top-tier alliance on a day to day basis).
__________________
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7 Jan 2012, 17:18
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#54
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
I've tried to put this argument somewhere before but here goes.....
Making attacking easier is not the solution to PA's woes. Attacking takes very little effort - and even less social interaction.
Defence is the part of PA which involves the community and which, in the "good old days", provided the most "fun".
It follows that anything which makes defence more worthwhile should also improve the playing experience for the majority.
I realise that I've (over)simplified this reasoning but it may serve to advance the discussion.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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7 Jan 2012, 18:15
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#55
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Thats a fair point, of course PA's social interaction is really what matters most. But as were trying to say, if attacking becomes harder then less people will do it, meaning less incommings to defend, meaning less 'fun' no?
The grudge most people have i think is that overall it wasnt broken, it had been the same way for many rounds now and no one really complained, so why change it when it doesnt do anything positive for PA apart from as Influence said drive a bigger wedge between the 'active' and 'casual' community.
I would like to ask a question to Mistwraith and hopefully she will see this and answer.
You run a 'mid teir' alliance in Howling Rain. Now realistically your alliance doesnt compete to win, the main draw is the community, the fun aspect.. a gathering of mates enjoying themselves and so on. Highlights of a round from my experience of running an alliance which was the same game level as Howling Rain would be landing on big targets and managing to get big waves to recall and so on, winning through as the underdog so to say.
Do you think that you will be able to attack as an alliance at 2-3am anymore or will you have to swap to day raids? And if you do have to swap do you think you will struggle to get the same amount of lands from it as you do with your current attack setup?
Im more intrested in how this effects the largest chunk of the paying PA community, the casual player. I cant see really how make the game so the defence improves drastically is a way to improve the game as a whole. Your just sterilising roid movement amongst the average players whilst the top end players move further way with there greater flexibility and ability in attacking.
Back to Mistwraith quickly would your alliance find an enviroment where attacks are diluted and defence coverage is taken for granted as exciting? Surely some of the fun that has people playing within Howling Rain is the uncertainity as to wether it will all end ok due to the lesser activity than the top alliances, if you take that away then why have PA at all? We might as well just all sitting in iRC channel and talk as that is all we will have left.
In conclusion if we wanted to play a sim game then we would play Farmwille or The Sims we want to play planetarion, a political war game, so stop making it harder to war!!!
PS. Im not trying to slight HR before someone chirps up, your just what i see as the perfect example of a mid teir alliance and i know Misty reads the forums and will reply
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7 Jan 2012, 18:55
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#56
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Remember another part of the positives of launching at 3am is that there isnt as many people online to actually DC the calls let alone defend them...
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And due to this fact, and the new PL rule- we may or may not see as many launching. As it usually is available def in an ally are pooled and handled by dcs. So instead of ally x,y,z attacking ally A - only x will do so due to available ppl. Or it will be the so called "hardcore" 20% of ally x,y,z attacking at that time - the point here is that ally A (which usually is a lower ranked or bashed ally are looking at less average incs.
This is pure speculation as we havenīt tried it out yet, but I do belive bashing/blocking with coordinated attacks by 2/3 allies hitting at peak hour will be less effective. since there always will be ppl who are dependant on PL +6.
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7 Jan 2012, 18:59
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#57
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
The grudge most people have i think is that overall it wasnt broken, it had been the same way for many rounds now and no one really complained, so why change it when it doesnt do anything positive for PA apart from as Influence said drive a bigger wedge between the 'active' and 'casual' community.
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Sorry to tell you this kai - but this thread from 2006 contradicts your point here - itīs fair for you to belive it isnīt broken, but a part of the community belive it is. Try and do a search on "prelaunch" in suggestion forum - and read through the 25 pages that comes up.
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7 Jan 2012, 20:04
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#58
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
the thread from 2006 when pa had 2 to 3 times the players???
I cant see how this change will keep players or get new ones - that has to be pa's #1 goal surely!?!
But as you say we are all speculating atm which is true so we'll see, maybe as the round wears on and some of the established alliances start to struggle, im thinking ND and CT as they have an older community which have jobs/families and wont be able to always launch at 3am if ND/CT decide to stick to it maybe, then the problems with day raiding might become more apparent. We'll see
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7 Jan 2012, 23:30
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#59
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Always MadcowS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Removing prelaunch will NOT cause alliances to set earlier attacks so people can go to sleep earlier and DCs can finish their work earlier.
There was a reason why PL was introduced. Attack hours have been always same even before PL was introduced. So people did not launch earlier/finish dcing earlier.
The whole PL thing was introduced on demand of the playerbase which couldn't wake up at insane times.
You are basically changing the whole game back to pre r15 (i think pl made it into the game there).
The reduced PL makes me really think about ever playing PA again as I simply can't play it in harmony with rl/work. I think limiting it was a bad idea..
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]
And...
Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
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8 Jan 2012, 00:45
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#60
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan
Removing prelaunch will NOT cause alliances to set earlier attacks so people can go to sleep earlier and DCs can finish their work earlier.
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Yes, in the past, before prelaunch, most top alliances chose to launch attacks at night. But this is not the past, PA today is not the same as it was 5 years ago. More importantly, the player base is not the same as it was 5 years ago. We've all gotten used to not having to wake up in the middle of the night to be able to attack. If it's choosing between attacking at different times and losing members by the bucketload, what makes you think they would pick the latter? Similarly, why do you choose to quit rather than ask your alliance launch at saner times?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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8 Jan 2012, 06:17
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#61
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Bad Girl
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: right here..right now
Posts: 1,055
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
Thats a fair point, of course PA's social interaction is really what matters most. But as were trying to say, if attacking becomes harder then less people will do it, meaning less incommings to defend, meaning less 'fun' no?
The grudge most people have i think is that overall it wasnt broken, it had been the same way for many rounds now and no one really complained, so why change it when it doesnt do anything positive for PA apart from as Influence said drive a bigger wedge between the 'active' and 'casual' community.
I would like to ask a question to Mistwraith and hopefully she will see this and answer.
You run a 'mid teir' alliance in Howling Rain. Now realistically your alliance doesnt compete to win, the main draw is the community, the fun aspect.. a gathering of mates enjoying themselves and so on. Highlights of a round from my experience of running an alliance which was the same game level as Howling Rain would be landing on big targets and managing to get big waves to recall and so on, winning through as the underdog so to say.
Do you think that you will be able to attack as an alliance at 2-3am anymore or will you have to swap to day raids? And if you do have to swap do you think you will struggle to get the same amount of lands from it as you do with your current attack setup?
Im more intrested in how this effects the largest chunk of the paying PA community, the casual player. I cant see really how make the game so the defence improves drastically is a way to improve the game as a whole. Your just sterilising roid movement amongst the average players whilst the top end players move further way with there greater flexibility and ability in attacking.
Back to Mistwraith quickly would your alliance find an enviroment where attacks are diluted and defence coverage is taken for granted as exciting? Surely some of the fun that has people playing within Howling Rain is the uncertainity as to wether it will all end ok due to the lesser activity than the top alliances, if you take that away then why have PA at all? We might as well just all sitting in iRC channel and talk as that is all we will have left.
In conclusion if we wanted to play a sim game then we would play Farmwille or The Sims we want to play planetarion, a political war game, so stop making it harder to war!!!
PS. Im not trying to slight HR before someone chirps up, your just what i see as the perfect example of a mid teir alliance and i know Misty reads the forums and will reply
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Sorry only just saw this.. its getting long, i had to drag myself to read it.
Mid Tier - not an insult, i'll agree with u there
We are in discussion about what to do about the lack of long prelaunch, yes we may be changing but to what is undecided currently, its in discussion with the officers and going to an alliance vote, as to wether this change will affect our capping is an unknown, quite a few alliances have launched later .. ie 6 or 8am and its not made them suffer, but the dynamics then maybe different to what we have might now with most going out around 4 ticks earlier than that so more fleets were flying.
What we change to will be affected by what others change to if they change at all.
We'll watch the wind carefully and trim our sails accordingly.
But we will accomodate and change with this change as we have any other over our many years, were certainly not giving up, stuffing our heads into a rabbit hole or running around howling mournfully.
On the other initial subject - multiple attack ticks, the coding for that is well and truly gone and i for 1 do NOT miss it at all, it required complicated calcing for landings and having to actually be there at landing times, it wasnt fun it was a mathematical pain in the tail !
Anyone who does miss it has their rose coloured spectacles of time on and should take them off and REALLY remember it all and clearly.
__________________
R1 - noob
R2,3,4, - ICD | R5 -ICD HC |R6 - HR Command | R7 - HR Command/NoS
R8,9,9.5,- HR HC /NoS Exec | R10 - HR HC | R10.5 - HR HC (FYTFO with LCH)
R11 -> NOW HR HC
(a round history not condusive to suceeding in exams, having a life or much sleep )
I'm not misunderstood ... I'm EVIL
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8 Jan 2012, 08:13
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#62
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
I for one welcome this change
__________________
Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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8 Jan 2012, 13:30
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#63
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Always MadcowS
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Yes, in the past, before prelaunch, most top alliances chose to launch attacks at night. But this is not the past, PA today is not the same as it was 5 years ago. More importantly, the player base is not the same as it was 5 years ago. We've all gotten used to not having to wake up in the middle of the night to be able to attack. If it's choosing between attacking at different times and losing members by the bucketload, what makes you think they would pick the latter? Similarly, why do you choose to quit rather than ask your alliance launch at saner times?
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I planned to take a 1 or 2 rounds break starting now as PA got too much time consuming and it really ruins sleep..
Thing is that I could play in an alliance that decides to launch their attacks earlier but I don't think any alliance will benefit in doing so.
There will be some alliances that will live launch at the weirdest hours. In order to compete with them all other alliances will have to do same. That was the reason why pre PL everyone set their attacks at late night times/early morning hours.
Alliances like Ultores, App or maybe Asc if they ever come back will be playing with live launch. Launching early attacks against those alliances that are able to launch fleets at the sickest hours would just be ridiculous. Basically the normal fleets will land on them 1 or 2 ticks before they launch their own fleets..
This whole thing would work only if all alliances decide to shift their attacks to normal times.. This system is like communism, it only works if everyone takes part in it.
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]
And...
Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
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8 Jan 2012, 16:14
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#64
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan
Thing is that I could play in an alliance that decides to launch their attacks earlier but I don't think any alliance will benefit in doing so.
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No benefits, except, you know, being able to sleep at night. If enough people like their sleep, and don't feel like they need to compete with Ultores or Apprime (ie, most of them), there'll be plenty of room in alliances that are willing to accomodate that. In fact, there already are: only a few alliances require their members to wake up at night for defense. Alliances that are OK with not getting defense at night will most likely also be OK with not launching attacks at night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan
There will be some alliances that will live launch at the weirdest hours. In order to compete with them all other alliances will have to do same. That was the reason why pre PL everyone set their attacks at late night times/early morning hours.
Alliances like Ultores, App or maybe Asc if they ever come back will be playing with live launch. Launching early attacks against those alliances that are able to launch fleets at the sickest hours would just be ridiculous. Basically the normal fleets will land on them 1 or 2 ticks before they launch their own fleets..
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Incorrect, for two reasons. One, if you launch at 22:01 with prelaunch +2, you land between 8am and 10am, which is not "1 or 2 ticks before [top alliances] launch their own fleets". Two, you're not limited to launching in the evening, you can launch in the morning, turning the tables around.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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8 Jan 2012, 23:03
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#65
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Registered Loser
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 38
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
I cant see how this change will keep players or get new ones - that has to be pa's #1 goal surely!?!
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I wish people would quit making that assumption. No one running this game wants to grow the playerbase, that just means more work and expense. I think we're simply used as a beta group for other games at this point - we make up a pretty good base of gamers, so why add a bunch of n00bs?
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9 Jan 2012, 15:56
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#66
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Bolivian Alpaca
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 912
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
I posted this in another thread, but i will repeat / expand it here:
Pro:
- Most attacks will be either at night 10 -11 pm game time, or early morning 5-8 game time. Ergo, more sleep ftw.
- 10 : 1 alliance gang bangs at silly morning hours will be a thing of the past, thank god.
Con:
- Active players (insomniacs) will probably concentrate on 1, tops 2 elite alliances and grow easier than all other alliances. Coupled with the fact that gangbangs will be less effective, means that alliances like ultores will grow faster, dominate early and possibly stagnate the round.
I believed the solution is not restricting / removing pl, but removing night time launches completely. But that is only a solution if there were enough players to create 2 - 3 universes, 1 per time zone, but that would require a 3x bigger playerbase spread evenly.
__________________
"I throw myself into the sea, release the wave, let it wash over me ..."
MadCowS - Angels - eXilition - Destiny - Wolfpack - Jenova - p3nguins
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10 Jan 2012, 17:27
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#67
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Shinigami
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: England
Posts: 32
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
The thing that I'm interested in, that I dnt think that any1 has mentioned yet is whether or not this change will effect the amount of people that will now 'pay' to play? I mean if they fit in the casual bracket, and the game may now have been made harder for them to play(eg land attacks, coz they will Att at different times) will they then want to spent money on the game right away? Or will they be cautious and play a free account to start with until they see how the game works out later in the rnd, and maybe upgrade at a later point in the rnd?
I dnt know, but id be interested to see what everyone's take on this is?
__________________
Played rnd 1 - 10, 12 - 15 and 21 - 23*
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10 Jan 2012, 19:20
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#68
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Quote:
Originally Posted by lofty
The thing that I'm interested in, that I dnt think that any1 has mentioned yet is whether or not this change will effect the amount of people that will now 'pay' to play? I mean if they fit in the casual bracket, and the game may now have been made harder for them to play(eg land attacks, coz they will Att at different times) will they then want to spent money on the game right away? Or will they be cautious and play a free account to start with until they see how the game works out later in the rnd, and maybe upgrade at a later point in the rnd?
I dnt know, but id be interested to see what everyone's take on this is?
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In my experience the ppl that pay for the credits are those that hold dear to this game. Those that continue to play will continue to pay.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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13 Jan 2012, 07:04
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
To me, it is very simple (sorry if this has been mentioned before):
A sub-optimal option with no benefit other than helping the casual player was limited, Prelaunching has never been better than live-launching. It just makes it harder for certain people to play. Alliances were never forced to attack at certain times, but they did and will continue to do so for efficiency reasons.
Now, either players attack at worse times than before, or they stay up longer than they normally would so they can still attack.
Lose/lose.
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29 Jan 2012, 20:19
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#70
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
As I understand, a fair few will be leaving the game if the pre-launch rule isn't reverted back next round.
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29 Jan 2012, 20:32
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#71
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: zL
Posts: 10
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
i sure do not like the pre-launch rule it takes the fun out of the game as you have to wait till 1pm to send +2 ect not cool.
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29 Jan 2012, 22:15
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#72
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So what?
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 606
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
I love the prelaunch change, just wish it would go further and remove all attacking prelaunch.
__________________
Legion
[RaH] [Mercenaries]
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30 Jan 2012, 03:49
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
So do I, Shev, but the majority don't.
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30 Jan 2012, 08:08
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#74
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Internal Error
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 696
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
I think its so much harder to land attack this round. All the 'hardcore' alliances get up during the night to send their fleets. This also means they're more likely to be around to send defence.
Landing attacks is the fun bit about planetarion, and thats kinda what im missing atm..
__________________
Nitros
[]LCH[] ..lets change history
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30 Jan 2012, 23:51
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#75
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General (Adjective Army)
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
I disagree.
Organizing (successful) defence "is the fun bit about planetarion" - and you can't do that if you've pre-launched and p***ed off to bed.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
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31 Jan 2012, 07:59
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#76
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Internal Error
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 696
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Well i guess thats a difference in opinion
__________________
Nitros
[]LCH[] ..lets change history
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1 Feb 2012, 16:58
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#77
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Saute Chef
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 28
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Re: Prelaunch and multi tick battles
Imho this change will kill off what little fun pa had left. Me and many of my mates will not return if this is going to be the standard of pa, as it makes it near impossible to play casual and perform well. Have fun with your hardcore playerbase of 500ish planets!
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