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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:06   #501
Kjeldoran
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

No offense but, what's wrong in donating your scanners and rotate them (adding them, donating, kicking them ... adding next scanner etc etc) ...

It's why this fking alliancefund is for. If you don't want it to be used ... THEN DON'T IMPLEMENT IT ...
As if alliances would spend resources on members that were too stupid to lose fleet cause they didn't log in or forgot to pull ... Any sane HC would refuse to spend resources to such stupidities ...

It's funny to read the hypocricy from allmost every poster in this thread. Even from pple I wouldn't have expected it from
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:08   #502
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

It is absolutely fine to donate to scanners, thing is, its not fine when the res being donated to the scanners r from pure support planets doing nothing but donating to alliance fund.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:14   #503
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

the point is that once inside a tag, the very notion of a support planet ceases to exist.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:17   #504
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
the point is that once inside a tag, the very notion of a support planet ceases to exist.

Well that isnt exactly true. A support planet surely is a planet giving a sole unfair advantage to an alliance. So, if they join the alliance for a tick, donate say 10 mil resources then are kicked again within the same tick surely that is a support planet. Although, if there planets that remain in the tag and keep donating to the fund then yes your theroy is correct as they would be classed as part of the alliance.

(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

Now thats what the eula says. Which to me justifies that planets, that are created to collect resources, join alliances, donate and then are kicked is saw as an unfair benefit for an alliance? But if they were always part of the alliance tag for example yes they cant be touched. As they are then part of the alliance.
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Last edited by Willzzz; 29 May 2006 at 11:23.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:21   #505
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

the whole ideea of "alliance found" had "exploitable loophole" written allover it!

its fun to see 1up deffending themselves for an action they would have whined for ages if anyone else had done it.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:23   #506
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
the point is that once inside a tag, the very notion of a support planet ceases to exist.
Which, with the nature of this question, makes the idea of support planets ludicrous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
Well that isnt exactly true. A support planet surely is a planet giving a sole unfair advantage to an alliance. So, if they join the alliance for a tick, donate say 10 mil resources then are kicked again within the same tick surely that is a support planet. Although, if there planets that remain in the tag and keep donating to the fund then yes your theroy is correct as they would be classed as part of the alliance.
Not according to the definition.

Quote:
(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific
and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a
planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.
The keyword is unfair benefit. If pateam have deemed it to be acceptable it is fair, and hence not unfair!

Frankly that the word "unfair", without being further defined, appears in a contract is appalling at best.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:28   #507
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Have you heard a member of the PA team say it is acceptable? I think the only terms i have heard them claim was acceptable with donations at the beggining of the round was that a scanner could join the tag and be donated resources FROM the fund for scans. Not the other way around
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:37   #508
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
Have you heard a member of the PA team say it is acceptable? I think the only terms i have heard them claim was acceptable with donations at the beggining of the round was that a scanner could join the tag and be donated resources FROM the fund for scans. Not the other way around
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...92#post3028192

That took me ages to find
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:37   #509
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Sounds to me like a general lack of ambition (or is that a general miasma of defeat) has lead to a lot of finger pointing and very little else...
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:45   #510
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

This is the post you have directed me to:

Quote:
Let me explain just how screwed up PA team's definition of support planets is. The following scenario was cleared before the round by PA team. Not to 1up - but to a different alliance.

Alliance has 59 members + 1 scanner in tag and a bunch more scanners out of tag.
Alliance regularly rotates the scanners IN the tag tag so they can be donated to for scans.

Because the scanner is IN the tag when the donation is made, everything is legal.

Similarly, an alliance could have:

59 members in tag, 100 donation planets out of tag.
As needed you accept a donation planet into tag - they donate - then kick them ready for next one.

Because the donations all happen while in the tag everyhting's fine - as whilst out of the tag they aren't supporting the alliance in any way.

As I've said before, if there's a blatant case of "support planets" it's out of tag scanners - whether or not they receive donations. Planets which play for an alliance IN the tag MUST be legitimate - otherwise all scanners in the game should just be deleted as they clearly regular take actions which are designed to benefit an alliance rather than themselves.

The support planet rule was designed (using the loosest possible defintion of "designed") to prevent planets cropping up whose sole purpose was to defend other planets of a specific alliance at non-alliance ETAs.

If the argument is that some actions even IN a tag are designed to support an alliance rather than a planet then all scanners need to go for one thing. As do cov-op planets who do anything other than steal resources.

That was ofc by Sid. Now, as i said ealier the eula doesnt claim they have to be within or out of the tag. So this explanation by sid to me has no relevence to this at all. If there not actually in tag other then for 1 tick to donate nearly 10 mil of resources then they ARE supplying an unfair advantage are they not? The fund can then ofc be donated to the members in the tag ect. Which is an unfair advantage. And as far as the PA Team approving it, he said they told ANOTHER alliance not himself. That doesnt solid enough evidence to me that they approved it. Perhaps we could get a PA team member to clarify it or perhaps you could name the alliance that was told this?

Edit: Ive added into a quote box now. Stupid forums bin away to long. Thanx for somone pointing it out
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:49   #511
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
The following scenario was cleared before the round by PA team. Not to 1up - but to a different alliance.

Similarly, an alliance could have:

59 members in tag, 100 donation planets out of tag.
As needed you accept a donation planet into tag - they donate - then kick them ready for next one.
If pateam say it's not unfair then it isn't unfair. As I said it's a poor word in a weak clause.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:50   #512
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

You cannot support an alliance once you are in it because you are the alliance.

Personally when I first saw the alliance fund I thought 'hang on this is pretty silly' and quite honestly, it just shouldn't be there, or if it is, donations capped at a certain level.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 11:54   #513
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
You cannot support an alliance once you are in it because you are the alliance.

Personally when I first saw the alliance fund I thought 'hang on this is pretty silly' and quite honestly, it just shouldn't be there, or if it is, donations capped at a certain level.
Being in an alliance for 1 tick to donate all resources to isnt classed as being IN IT. have they attacked while being in the alliance? have they defended while being in the alliance? Are they involved with the alliance other then supplying them with a fund resource? The answer to those are most likely no. The only way you could use this argument is if they were ALWAYS in the tag. not just for one tick. I beleive exi, when this rule was introduced, were also kicking members in and out of tags to make the eta for defence. This was throwned upon. May i ask what the difference is now?
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:00   #514
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
its fun to see 1up deffending themselves for an action they would have whined for ages if anyone else had done it.
1up members aren't any different then other human beings. Ofcourse they'd have whined about it, just as you can alot of pple whine about it right now.

Any 1up member claiming differently is a hypocrit. There will always pple that whine/complain when someone did something they "could" have done but didn't think of it or whatever.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:01   #515
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
Being in an alliance for 1 tick to donate all resources to isnt classed as being IN IT. have they attacked while being in the alliance? have they defended while being in the alliance? Are they involved with the alliance other then supplying them with a fund resource? The answer to those are most likely no. The only way you could use this argument is if they were ALWAYS in the tag. not just for one tick.
When alliances were brought ingame the only necessary definition for being in an alliance is being untag. Nor for 24 ticks, 48 ticks or the whole round. For that single tick if you are in the tag you are in the alliance. Also bringing us back to the current situation these 1up planets were in the tag for half the round.

Quote:
I beleive exi, when this rule was introduced, were also kicking members in and out of tags to make the eta for defence. This was throwned upon. May i ask what the difference is now?
I don't remember hearing about this? Frankly it sounds rather difficult to implement.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:03   #516
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid
The support planet rule was designed (using the loosest possible defintion of "designed") to prevent planets cropping up whose sole purpose was to defend other planets of a specific alliance at non-alliance ETAs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EULA
18.2. Multiple Accounts / Account Sharing / Support Accounts: Multi-ing, account Sharing and Support Accounts are not allowed. The definitions are, but are not limited to:

...

(f) Support Accounts are accounts which are dedicated to undertaking specific and repeated actions which result in an unfair benefit for a planet/organisation, where an organisation is defined as an alliance or galaxy.

...

18.6. Miscellaneous cheating

...

(c) As newer methods of cheating are discovered, you authorise us to interpret all data logged about your account towards detecting these methods. Actions which are deemed to be cheating are not restricted to the list given on this EULA and may be added to at any time, and you authorise us to do so
Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
There has been a lot of discussion on what constitutes a support planet. Planets that are signed up with the sole purpose of helping a certain alliance/planet/galaxy/BP will not be allowed. This rule was implemented last round and we will continue using this rule for further rounds.
The quotes on EULA and Assassin can be found at the thread regarding rules for round 16 at http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...light=round+16
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:03   #517
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

guys you talk in circles here either you are in an allie full time not only ingame so this is just bs if bending the rules to the extent that we got this senario that "all" ingame allie planets cept 1 hc are supporters what are the rest then?

and what do the kicked 1up wannabies think of beeing a tag count for the numbers?

well done its not leet or even a decent strategy to screw the lil guy over kicking them out the 2/3 of the round is done.

and nd/ins weee fighting for second will so much give a remark in pa-wiki.... not
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:03   #518
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo
some random crap about insomnia and ND blah blah
there has not been 1 single post in this thread where you have even acknowledged your own alliances inability to act on this 1. but then again im sure its easier for you to make other people the scapegoat for you inability to act on 1up one atleast 2 occasions. Omen propoganda ftw
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:03   #519
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

If I defend a planet in my alliance tag, it's alliance cooperation

If I defend a planet OOGOOA, i'm setting myself up for breaking the support rule.

How long you are in a tag is irrelevant.

You can do anything within a tag. Tag management is not contraversial in the slightest. What was frowned upon by exi was them having defence planets (and in some cases, alliances) out of tag which were just defending them as their sole purpose. Hence why the rule was established.

I don't agree with this 'fund' or the support rule but the rules operate in this way so 1up are well within their rights to work within them. As were ascendancy and to some extent exilition.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:08   #520
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
1up weren't in a war. They got to sit on their roids. There were some weeks their roid lead was staggering. When they tagged up the gap in score was only 2 million but the gap in value was far more. Being involved in a war is axiomatically worse for value growth than not being in a war. Many of these 1up planets went untargetted due to a) being high ranked b) being non-hostile towards any specific alliance c) stockpiled resources. The content of your entire post is based on a complete fallacy. Does the fact the current number one planet is almost 2 million clear mean he was donated the most resources by his alliance? Just because 1up are beating you doesn't mean they cheated.
Im honestly stunned by the fact that you dont use your intellegence on this subject. Each other post on another subject is respect worthy, though here you seem to fail. (Is this sentance worth another neg-rep? neg rep for the win!)

1up dint sit on their roids. Earlier this thread i stated the following:
"What if 1up adds there real members and manages to keep their roids"
Because they where out of tag they wouldnt get sufficiant def. To keep there roids. Then again being on the winning side of a war, is quite profitable.

Apart from this you miss judge my entire post:
i state some questions which could be awnserd in two ways:
The 1up way, and my way.
Because of this, it would be nice to get facts from 1up to state which way is correct. I understand if 1up doesnt want to share the info. But untill they do, i will remind you all that this round is won by 80 great 1up members. (because they cant deny the impact they could have made).

Also you could claim there 5% lead on Omen could be from the War, i could claim that the war vs not holding on to your roids are even. And that the starting amount of the support plannets gave 1up that 5%.

Still.. i made a quite nice post, with a nice summary. But you dont seem the get passed the first line of text.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:11   #521
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
The quotes on EULA and Assassin can be found at the thread regarding rules for round 16 at http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...light=round+16
Well yes, but sid specifically mentions that this scenario was checked out with, and approved by, Pateam pre-round. So presumably purely for the benefit of does not apply to this situation. Reading that I imagine it also applies to my planet. In case someone needs clarification I'll state here and now that I signed up for the sole purpose of helping my bp, galaxy, and alliance. I have no interest in how well my planet does. In fact you can apply that to every scanner. They actually end up with lower score because scanners don't gain xp for scanning than if they just stock-piled resources. Hell you could make a decent argument that the best sort of PA players, those who sacrifice personal ranks for the alliance victory, are support planets. They happen to accidentally get a high-ranking planet because they need ships to help their alliance but if you told them they'd finish dead last and their alliance first they'd take it. Do we now delete those players?

This rule is ****ing bullshit.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:11   #522
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
When alliances were brought ingame the only necessary definition for being in an alliance is being untag. Nor for 24 ticks, 48 ticks or the whole round. For that single tick if you are in the tag you are in the alliance. Also bringing us back to the current situation these 1up planets were in the tag for half the round.


I don't remember hearing about this? Frankly it sounds rather difficult to implement.
Now we are getting somwhere. If you read at the beggining of this thread i did state 1up have played a great stratergy. They kept the planets within the tag for an amount of time to class them as part of the alliance. Which is why they cant be touched. They took the risk of having there main planets (dont know if thats the right terms to use? But bigger planets) Out of the tag which could of course be attacked without tag eta. But, i feel your still wrong with the definition about the ones joined, donate then kicked. An alliamce limit was brought in for a reason, if there avoiding this blatently like that then it is an unfair advantage. 1up themsevles if i can remmember correctly said the limit was there for a reason and said that exi were exploiting it. Now there doing exactly the same thing but with another tactic. Now its apparently ok? Im not playing the game, and i havent bin in either 1up or exi, so i am on neutral ground. I agreed with 1up that exi were using it as an unfair advantage when it came to fleets, and i also beleive that people soly there to donate to the fund for 1 tick is wrong now.

I have heard people complain this round for example about free planets that have no constructions other then a certain facotry. (for example around 40 crystal refinerys) they then save up all there resources, join the alliance and donate then get kicked. If you cant see that as an unfair advantage just becuase there part of the alliance tag for one tick (when there is a limit set for a reason?) then i am quite concernd.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:16   #523
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If pateam say it's not unfair then it isn't unfair. As I said it's a poor word in a weak clause.
And im sorry i missed this quote btw. As i said above this just becuase Sid said that another alliance other then his own was told dont mean it was either actually said or approved. Thats also worrying. And you speak of PA Team, its the MH department that dictate the rules of this game. So Assassin and Squishy who are the PA Team members in charge are the only ones that have say on this. Was the PA team member spoken to those inviduals?
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:17   #524
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefoundation
Im honestly stunned by the fact that you dont use your intellegence on this subject. Each other post on another subject is respect worthy, though here you seem to fail. (Is this sentance worth another neg-rep? neg rep for the win!)
First, I didn't neg-rep you, second don't talk about rep on the forums.

Quote:
1up dint sit on their roids. Earlier this thread i stated the following:
"What if 1up adds there real members and manages to keep their roids"
Because they where out of tag they wouldnt get sufficiant def. To keep there roids. Then again being on the winning side of a war, is quite profitable.
Yes they did. They sat on their roids. I ****ing watched them sit on their roids. Some weeks their roid lead was almost 50% more than omen's roid count. Your point here is flat out wrong. I can try and get some history files for you to show this but it might be difficult. More straightforward if any HC who had even a vaguely decent amount of info on 1up would like to post here that 1up had less roids than Omen for, well, almost any part of the round please feel free to do so.

Quote:
Apart from this you miss judge my entire post:
i state some questions which could be awnserd in two ways:
The 1up way, and my way.
This is called the fallacy of the excluded middle. It's the same logic as "you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists".

Quote:
Also you could claim there 5% lead on Omen could be from the War, i could claim that the war vs not holding on to your roids are even. And that the starting amount of the support plannets gave 1up that 5%.
The planets who gave them the lead, ie the biggest ones, were not intag. And again their lead wasn't 5%, I'd say it was closer to 25% as an average from tick ~100-last Tuesday.

Quote:
Still.. i made a quite nice post, with a nice summary. But you dont seem the get passed the first line of text.
You made a factually inaccurate post compounded by poor logic.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:18   #525
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Well yes, but sid specifically mentions that this scenario was checked out with, and approved by, Pateam pre-round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid
Similarly, an alliance could have:

59 members in tag, 100 donation planets out of tag.
As needed you accept a donation planet into tag - they donate - then kick them ready for next one.
If you are refering to this, I asked for a permission during the round from the Multihunters to do it, and I was denied it. Funny?
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:18   #526
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
You cannot support an alliance once you are in it because you are the alliance.

Personally when I first saw the alliance fund I thought 'hang on this is pretty silly' and quite honestly, it just shouldn't be there, or if it is, donations capped at a certain level.
Make is to that only above average can donate and only below average can get donations.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:21   #527
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
I have heard people complain this round for example about free planets that have no constructions other then a certain facotry. (for example around 40 crystal refinerys) they then save up all there resources, join the alliance and donate then get kicked. If you cant see that as an unfair advantage just becuase there part of the alliance tag for one tick (when there is a limit set for a reason?) then i am quite concernd.
Personally I think the alliance limit should be abolished, and if that doesn't happen then either the fund goes or this tactic is banned. I see it as an unfair advantage personally but from the perspective of the rules as defined by pateam it isn't!

Quote:
If you are refering to this, I asked for a permission during the round from the Multihunters to do it, and I was denied it. Funny?
This is rather bizzare as I'm pretty sure, as well as what sid said, jester asked someone on pateam and got the go-ahead.

I have asked appoco to nudge assassin towards this thread so hopefully we'll get that point cleared up soon.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:25   #528
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The planets who gave them the lead, ie the biggest ones, were not intag. And again their lead wasn't 5%, I'd say it was closer to 25% as an average from tick ~100-last Tuesday.
I said earlier. If you draw a line from the intag moment to tick zero you will see that 1up always been sligthly above omen. This is where i got the 5% margin from. My entire post was build around the fact that this 5% could come from having a great start/midgame due to the ress that the support planets gave.

Though due to your problems of linking posts, i will say i stop this discussion.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:27   #529
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
stuff
There were no planets added into the tag for a single tick just to donate resources. All the resource donation was done up to the point of us tagging up fully. Up until then full playing members had dropped in an out of tag rather than the idle planets.

Also worth noting is that 1up members donated frequently to the alliance fund to provision thier own scans. Given the cost and amount of scans and the cost and amount of amps a handful of idle planets will only go so far in terms of resources and whatever gap is left must be made up by the playing planets.

Also, there have been no donations, to my knowledge, to any playing planets to refund fleetcatches, being stupid (crashing), inactivity or to cover incoming.

All our scanners were and still are tagged since tick 1.

The main function of the idle planets was not for the resource donations but to lower our average score and to hide the fact we had multiple large planets untagged.

We are still an alliance of 51 playing members + scanners and a couple of inactives.

These facts aren't up for discussion being as they are facts. Use them how you please.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:31   #530
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
If I defend a planet in my alliance tag, it's alliance cooperation

If I defend a planet OOGOOA, i'm setting myself up for breaking the support rule.

How long you are in a tag is irrelevant.

You can do anything within a tag. Tag management is not contraversial in the slightest. What was frowned upon by exi was them having defence planets (and in some cases, alliances) out of tag which were just defending them as their sole purpose. Hence why the rule was established.

I don't agree with this 'fund' or the support rule but the rules operate in this way so 1up are well within their rights to work within them. As were ascendancy and to some extent exilition.
this is utter bollox, Lokken.

If, you join the tag for 1 tick to donate 1 mill resources and then leave the tag again ... and you do this on a frequent basis, every week for instance, then you are imo a support planet.

Now, I agree it's not cheating because again PA crew screwed up by making a gaint loophole for abuse, with a huge sign pointing towards it.

Mind you that I talk in general and in no way know or even care about whether any alliance applies this or not.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:31   #531
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefoundation
I said earlier. If you draw a line from the intag moment to tick zero you will see that 1up always been sligthly above omen. This is where i got the 5% margin from. My entire post was build around the fact that this 5% could come from having a great start/midgame due to the ress that the support planets gave.

Though due to your problems of linking posts, i will say i stop this discussion.
Where do you think the res went sufficient enough to have this kind of score impact? The res went to scanners to scan with and to build some amps, not fleet and not to anyone other than the scanners.

1up were in front because we weren't fighting a war and we were permitted to grow without resistence. It really is as simple as that no matter how hard you try and twist it.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:32   #532
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
There were no planets added into the tag for a single tick just to donate resources. All the resource donation was done up to the point of us tagging up fully. Up until then full playing members had dropped in an out of tag rather than the idle planets.

Also worth noting is that 1up members donated frequently to the alliance fund to provision thier own scans. Given the cost and amount of scans and the cost and amount of amps a handful of idle planets will only go so far in terms of resources and whatever gap is left must be made up by the playing planets.

Also, there have been no donations, to my knowledge, to any playing planets to refund fleetcatches, being stupid (crashing), inactivity or to cover incoming.

All our scanners were and still are tagged since tick 1.

The main function of the idle planets was not for the resource donations but to lower our average score and to hide the fact we had multiple large planets untagged.

We are still an alliance of 51 playing members + scanners and a couple of inactives.

These facts aren't up for discussion being as they are facts. Use them how you please.
Well thank you for clearing that up. I never stated what you were doing was against the rules nore did i of course direct things to you. I do though direct things to sid claiming it was approved for these actions to take place from another alliance speaking with the PA team. Im now having a debate with JBG about this as well as loken that it is an unfair advantage to join, donate then leave within a few ticks if not 1 tick.

As ive satetd all through this thread what you did (1up) was a great tactic stratergy and i have never deneied it. But thank you for the post anyway
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:36   #533
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

well mazzelaar its your facts that are questioned here among other things so why you guys dodge the questions all the time is kinda weird,

you can chose to explain your actions fulltime about the various acusations ppl have agains you (and crew) or well your reputation is getting down as rocks here
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:39   #534
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
well mazzelaar its your facts that are questioned here among other things so why you guys dodge the questions all the time is kinda weird,

you can chose to explain your actions fulltime about the various acusations ppl have agains you (and crew) or well your reputation is getting down as rocks here
To be honest posts like that i think define why mazz dont have to respond as there is nothing inteligent to respond to. But a point made has to be Mazz that was a great post you made and i respect the facts you put out. But at the same time why is Sid claiming for example that he has had approval of actions we speak of if your not using this as your tactics? Thats what troubles me.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:42   #535
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
But at the same time why is Sid claiming for example that he has had approval of actions we speak of if your not using this as your tactics? Thats what troubles me.
I'm more bothered by the fact that no PA team member seems to have heard of such an approval, and others have been denied the things 1up have been allowed to do.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:44   #536
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Foundation
I said earlier. If you draw a line from the intag moment to tick zero you will see that 1up always been sligthly above omen. This is where i got the 5% margin from. My entire post was build around the fact that this 5% could come from having a great start/midgame due to the ress that the support planets gave.

Though due to your problems of linking posts, i will say i stop this discussion.
If I draw a line from here to Pluto it doesn't mean I come from there. Stop making up bollocks.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:46   #537
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
To be honest posts like that i think define why mazz dont have to respond as there is nothing inteligent to respond to. But a point made has to be Mazz that was a great post you made and i respect the facts you put out. But at the same time why is Sid claiming for example that he has had approval of actions we speak of if your not using this as your tactics? Thats what troubles me.
posts like that are the exact reson why he should respond to it but im impressed how you manage to both kiss ass and try to get the answers you want from the same guys its been tried before and that isnt gonna get what you want
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:52   #538
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
well mazzelaar its your facts that are questioned here among other things so why you guys dodge the questions all the time is kinda weird,

you can chose to explain your actions fulltime about the various acusations ppl have agains you (and crew) or well your reputation is getting down as rocks here
I assume that means I should decline your application to 1up now as you surely don't want to join such a bunch of scumbags?

As far as I was aware I laid out the facts pretty concisely in a well ordered and well presented list. If you're unable to read properly then I'd start with something a bit less grown up *smirk* than the PA forums.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 29 May 2006, 12:54   #539
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
If you are refering to this, I asked for a permission during the round from the Multihunters to do it, and I was denied it. Funny?
You obviously don't have Jester or Sids charm and winning smile
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:00   #540
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

That's not what 1up did Keizari. Ask them if you can use the alliance fund as 1up did this round and they will say yes.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:01   #541
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
winning smile
It's obviously this one - eXilition seems to lack the smile we're talking about too, ehe?


edit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwtmc
That's not what 1up did Keizari. Ask them if you can use the alliance fund as 1up did this round and they will say yes.
Yes, but apparently (As Sid said) they had the permission to do it the other way too. 59 planets in tag and 100 planets cycling through the one open spot donating resources is okay to him, hence I jumped to the assumption of it being included in their "approved" list.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:02   #542
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willzzz
But at the same time why is Sid claiming for example that he has had approval of actions we speak of if your not using this as your tactics? Thats what troubles me.
I couldn't be 100% sure but I would suspect he is using at as a yardstick to prove how far inside what was permissable we were. If 100 planets can be rotated in and out of tag for a single tick to donate resources to the alliance then having 7/8 planets permenantly in the alliance is a far lesser method.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:10   #543
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
It's obviously this one - eXilition seems to lack the smile we're talking about too, ehe?
1) Have eXilition asked permission to do what we did too?
2) When have eXilition ever asked for clarification on something that might be construed as breaking the rules?
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:10   #544
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Good Afternoon Boys and Girls.

Right. I have bin pointed to this huge essay and it seems there is a clarification issue to sort out. Ok so it seems a member of the PA Team has told jester that it is allowed for somone to join an alliance donate resources to then leave. Well i am here to clairfy that myself or Squishy (the MH and deputy manager) have never approved of this from the start of the round till now.

Now before the start of this round there was a lovely discussion on scan planets and the fund. This was heald in front of the alliance reps. The person which was involved in asking these questions was Spiritfire. Now he came up with some great points. This discusion started off with what was allowed regarding scan planets. Now, i have never stated that we would stop scan planets being outside of tag, however, we can prevent them from getting unvolved with an unfair advantage to effect the game. (for example building one ship type and getting involved with defence/attacks) I dont see scans as an unfair disadvantage? (we can discuss this later if you wish) But then it lead onto this question:

1) Ok, Well, what would happen if a scanner joined the alliance, was donated funds from the alliance fund and then left again?

Now, i replied to this in front of all of the alliance reps that i approved of this as to be honest the fund can be used to supply scanners for scans. As long as of course (which i put my point accross) they dont use the resources to build fleets and get involved ect. Only for scans. (we can log this btw)

Now as far as im aware thats the only time i have approved anything to do with donations, and it wasnt for this subject. Everytime somone has came to me and asked if it is allowed for a planet, say with nothing but a few roids, no ships, they join the tag to donate funds then leave within a few ticks as allowed i have told them 'NO' As personaly that is an unfair advantage. So therefore as far as im aware it is still against the rules for this action. So, for the people who have said in this thread it was approved by a PA Team member feel free to pm me on irc and give me the information of the PA team member who approved it. Even though of course we discuss rules before we implement them with alliance reps and the rest of the PA Team, once they are enforced/made public its down to myself and the MH Team to discuss them. Not other members from the PA team. So there seems to be a communication problem perhaps on both parts. But i can openly clarify if i see planets, joining tags, donating resources then being kicked as another form of a support planet and i have never said anything otherwise. So, if i find anyone doing this action will be taken against them (and i have done so so far this round)

Thank you for your time. Any other questions feel free to msg me in the channel #multihunters
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:11   #545
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I assume that means I should decline your application to 1up now as you surely don't want to join such a bunch of scumbags?
correct
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:23   #546
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Ok so assassin formulated an official answer. Adding planets intag to donate to the alliance and to then kick again is what is called an unfair advantage and is therefor forbidden.

Common sence finally won ...
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:28   #547
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assassin
Good Afternoon Boys and Girls.
1) Ok, Well, what would happen if a scanner joined the alliance, was donated funds from the alliance fund and then left again?
Now, i replied to this in front of all of the alliance reps that i approved of this as to be honest the fund can be used to supply scanners for scans. As long as of course (which i put my point accross) they dont use the resources to build fleets and get involved ect. Only for scans. (we can log this btw)
hmm... Eventho i see logic in that statement, i see nothing wrong with that person building ships. The resourses that got donated to him is not something that aqppeared out of nothing. That is a part of legitimate income of alliance members/support planets. I see nothing wrong with spending donated resources as seen fit.

Now as it comes to DONATION part, to see who can, and cannot, donate and how much fo their res can actually be donated to an aliance, i will just wait and see what other people will go ahead and post. This promisses to be entertaining.
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:28   #548
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
1) Have eXilition asked permission to do what we did too?
2) When have eXilition ever asked for clarification on something that might be construed as breaking the rules?
1) Who did you ask the permission from?
2) When have you been given a permission by a person with the authority to give such permissions on something that might be construed as breaking the rules (ie. 59 planets in tag, 100 donation planets rolling in and out)?
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:32   #549
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Ok so assassin formulated an official answer. Adding planets intag to donate to the alliance and to then kick again is what is called an unfair advantage and is therefor forbidden.

Common sence finally won ...
always nice to know the rules of a game..

..when the game is already over
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Unread 29 May 2006, 13:34   #550
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Re: 1up's not-ingame members

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
1) Who did you ask the permission from?
2) When have you been given a permission by a person with the authority to give such permissions on something that might be construed as breaking the rules (ie. 59 planets in tag, 100 donation planets rolling in and out)?
I guess your answers were supposed to be:

1) No
2) Never

And, where you didn't, I'll actually provide an anwer when I'm asked a question rather than evading it because I don't really have a leg to stand on

1) I specifically had things verified by squishy. Not with respect to having 100 support planets but then:
2) Thats not what we did so why do I care?
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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