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Unread 26 May 2010, 17:03   #1
Benneh
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Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

Basically this is coming from this http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...26#post3193526 .

I think this new system once again goes away from rewarding activity but i can see why it has been implimented. My suggestion is that to activate this you have to have say 35 members of your population in a certain area.

Wish suggested security but then i think late round everyone has masses of security anyway so this might detract from the advantage.

Maybe create a new population option called "intel" or something. Maybe make it an all or nothing option. Means that to take advantage of this new feature you have to sacrifice something else. Which for smaller planets wont be as much of an issue and it will reward actives because they can choose to utilise population elsewhere.


It would be tick instant so you could for example change settings before bed to get this active and then switch when you are about.


Opinions?
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Unread 26 May 2010, 18:39   #2
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

Someone said earlier that people have this auto-reporting of incoming as tools in their alliance (I think ND and CT?) So they would just go back to using that instead of using their research / construction / mining pop.

Also, like you said, it would slightly harm a cov-oping planet if put onto the Security pop, so i'd prefer to see it on its own section.

Maybe as part of the cov-oping tactic we could add something that would sorta stop their incoming from auto-reporting. Would bring a new element to cov-oping. Furthermore, at the end of the round, when everyone has researched everything, they would still have to have a balance of sec guards/sec centres/sec pop as well as this new intel section if they want their incomings to be auto-reported.
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Unread 26 May 2010, 18:53   #3
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Someone said earlier that people have this auto-reporting of incoming as tools in their alliance (I think ND and CT?) So they would just go back to using that instead of using their research / construction / mining pop.

Also, like you said, it would slightly harm a cov-oping planet if put onto the Security pop, so i'd prefer to see it on its own section.

Maybe as part of the cov-oping tactic we could add something that would sorta stop their incoming from auto-reporting. Would bring a new element to cov-oping. Furthermore, at the end of the round, when everyone has researched everything, they would still have to have a balance of sec guards/sec centres/sec pop as well as this new intel section if they want their incomings to be auto-reported.

Just fking remove the autoreport option then. Or make the same apply for that.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 00:00   #4
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster View Post
Just fking remove the autoreport option then. Or make the same apply for that.
Like I said in the other report, I like it. Also, it's actually a big disadvantage for me this round as I wont be in an alliance anyway, so I don't get my incs autoreported. Does mean when I go xp whoring on the top planets that I wont be able to get past without their alliance noticing though, so I see your point. For the planets without an alliance it's gona be even harder to roid people !

Edit: Even harder for any planet to roid I guess.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 01:32   #5
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Benneh View Post
I think this new system once again goes away from rewarding activity but i can see why it has been implimented. My suggestion is that to activate this you have to have say 35 members of your population in a certain area.
Why should activity be rewarded? and why should casual or new players who end up in randon/noob galaxys be punished or forced to sacrifice 35% income/research or construction bonus in order to get there incomings reported to there alliance?

I dont really follow the logic, If someone isnt active.. then they wont be in an active alliance which has people online to send defence? If someone goes random, why is it there fault if there incomings arnt reported while they are offline, they're random and cant be expected to be online 24/7.

I thought we had got past this, that the community was agree'd that we need to change the game to attract more players and as such.. the game needs to become more casual. Why the hell are people arguing against this change?

If anything, the auto-report should be as follows:
Private galaxy = No auto reporting, as you've gone private, you know each other.. you're responsible for each other.
Random galaxy = Auto reporting, as you're random and havent organised your galaxy nor are you sure or can be certain that you have almost 24hour coverage.
None of this crap that casual players should have to sacrifice some of there population bonus to get there incomings reported while they're offline.

You're idea is a fail idea.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 01:45   #6
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

lol. I stopped properly reading at why should activity be rewarded. Sorry.

why shouldnt activity be rewarded? to some degree at least. Im all for helping new people and things like that but why should someone who spends hours each day doing various pa related stuff etc, staying up at night to dc not be rewarded somehow?

Thats what i don't get, the idea of this suggestion is for the more casual player, you probably wont be active enough for those points to be missed anyway.

And oh please if you go random you take the risks of going random and by 3 weeks in you have 15+ galmates anyway. Your private galaxy idea is even more fail than you as a pa player. And lets be honest here, going random needs no more positives than it already has, its already stupidly strong as it is.


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Last edited by Benneh; 27 May 2010 at 17:30.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 01:56   #7
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Benneh View Post
lol. I stopped properly reading at why should activity be rewarded. Sorry.
Why should every feature in planetarion be aimed at rewarding activity?

Quote:
why shouldnt activity be rewarded, im all for helping new people and things like that but why should someone who spends hours each day doing various pa related stuff etc, staying up at night to dc be rewarded? Thats what i don't get, the idea of this suggestion is for the more casual player, you probably wont be active enough for those points to be miss.
How does someone staying up all night to DC have anything to do with auto-reporting incs? In fact, doesnt it reward those who are in alliances that stay up all night to DC/send defence? as now they will have incomings reported on time and can send defence as required.

An 'inactive' player in an 'inactive' alliance wouldnt have that much benefit from auto-reporting incs? as they still wont get much if any defence. They still require other active people to send defence.

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more bleh
lol no.

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Christ and then you even fail trying to insult me.
Wasnt trying to insult was, was just pointing out its a fail idea.

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Get out of my thread you idiot .
Im in your thread, ruining your fail idea.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 02:02   #8
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

Right okay then, lets look at it this way. From not rewarding activeness, which is also cool.

Im a casual player, Xp whoring. Lets say single targeting style abit like asc did with fi in 35.

They got through numerous times because incs were not reported, so solo players are going to have a tougher time because they will now be automatically reported to an alliance of 70+. Making this SO much harder.

I just think its an awful idea all around.

What are we going to see next, jgps that show how much someone is prelaunched on you?

Its to much babysitting now. God help any zik who is trying to farm an inactive.

And its not a fail idea, its just an idea. i dont see why you have gotten so assholeish about it. ITS A SUGGESTIONS FORUM.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 02:16   #9
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneh View Post
Im a casual player, Xp whoring. Lets say single targeting style abit like asc did with fi in 35.

They got through numerous times because incs were not reported, so solo players are going to have a tougher time because they will now be automatically reported to an alliance of 70+. Making this SO much harder.
Most attacks on top alliances with 70+ members get through due to no defence left or not enough to cover those incomings, it is very rare that attacks slip through due to non-reporting. So i really dont think it will make it that much harder to attack 'top' planets, considering they're the ones that are highly likely to be reported on time anyway.

If anything, it makes it harder to roid inactives or casuals but i'll address this point in a minute.

Quote:
I just think its an awful idea all around.
We all have our opinions, as i said in my previous post.. i think your idea is awful.

Quote:
What are we going to see next, jgps that show how much someone is prelaunched on you?
JGP's already show how many prelaunched ships are incoming to you? unless they're cloaked, then you can inc scan?

Quote:
Its to much babysitting now. God help any zik who is trying to farm an inactive.
wait a second, i thought this change made it harder to roid top planets? isnt that the point you made earlier? now you're saying its making it harder to roid inactive/casual players and in my opinion, it should be harder to roider casual planets than it currently is.

Quote:
And its not a fail idea, its just an idea. i dont see why you have gotten so assholeish about it. ITS A SUGGESTIONS FORUM.
I said i thought it was a fail idea. Just like you've stated that you think the current system is an awful idea.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 02:32   #10
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

I can see both sides of the argument, therefore I propose a compromise: incomings are autoreported in the tick they show up, but at a later time (either halfway through or at :45).

This way activity is rewarded, giving the player 30 to 45 minutes longer to get defense, while still giving people in random galaxies the opportunity to sleep with hopes of keeping their roids longer!
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Unread 27 May 2010, 06:37   #11
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

I have no arguments whatsoever, but I don't like the idea.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 07:59   #12
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
wait a second, i thought this change made it harder to roid top planets? isnt that the point you made earlier? now you're saying its making it harder to roid inactive/casual players and in my opinion, it should be harder to roider casual planets than it currently is.

It makes it harder to roid any player, top or inactive in this case.. u cant argue about that, theres even more chance for someone to DC incs in ally now, no matter active or inactive alliance..

this autoreporting should not b added at all and i dislike it alot.. however its done already and nothing can b done to change things at this point.. so i agree with benneh`s idea about adding population feature or sth. similar to it to make it a bit more beareble (dunno if i spelled this correctly :P)
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Unread 27 May 2010, 08:00   #13
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
I can see both sides of the argument, therefore I propose a compromise: incomings are autoreported in the tick they show up, but at a later time (either halfway through or at :45).

This way activity is rewarded, giving the player 30 to 45 minutes longer to get defense, while still giving people in random galaxies the opportunity to sleep with hopes of keeping their roids longer!

ok, this is even better idea in my eyes

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Unread 27 May 2010, 09:16   #14
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

Okay i like Patikcs solution more!
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Unread 27 May 2010, 09:52   #15
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
Why should activity be rewarded?
Have a think about the way the entire game is structured.
It is inherent in the fundamental design of the game that the ability to do something at least once per hour will reward the player.

Asking "why should activity be rewarded?" with respect to Planetarion is pretty much the same as asking "Why should it float?" with respect to yachting. I guess you could be arguing "why when activity is rewarded through the fundamental design of the game, do we want to reward it even more?" but again, its just there in the games design.

If you can ensure that a large percentage of your waking hours are spent on IRC and logged in to PA, and if you can get by with a lot less sleep than other people you have an advantage at this game.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 13:08   #16
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
It makes it harder to roid any player, top or inactive in this case.. u cant argue about that, theres even more chance for someone to DC incs in ally now, no matter active or inactive alliance..
Top players usually or very rarely have incs which are unreported due to them being in top galaxys.

It means you dont get any free roids from roiding lesser galaxys which dont have 24/7 coverage. You will need to get passed there alliance and galaxy still, I dont like the idea that anyone can get roided simply due to them not being online 24/7 or there galaxy not having someone online at every single tick to click 1 button if need be.


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Have a think about the way the entire game is structured.
It is inherent in the fundamental design of the game that the ability to do something at least once per hour will reward the player.
Not really, You dont need to do something once per hour and if anything, the game has been going away from that design for awhile now.. with pre-launch.

Quote:
Asking "why should activity be rewarded?" with respect to Planetarion is pretty much the same as asking "Why should it float?" with respect to yachting. I guess you could be arguing "why when activity is rewarded through the fundamental design of the game, do we want to reward it even more?" but again, its just there in the games design.
No it isnt, simply rewarding activity is not enough reason to change something. If that was the case, we wouldnt have prelaunch.. or you could be arguing that you dont want galaxys to be able to report incs, to reward the activity of planets.

Activity is still rewarded with auto-reporting but instead of galaxy activity, it comes down to alliance activity. Auto-reporting doesnt give everyone free defence, they've still got to be in an alliance which has DC's online and people with defence fleets.

Quote:
If you can ensure that a large percentage of your waking hours are spent on IRC and logged in to PA, and if you can get by with a lot less sleep than other people you have an advantage at this game.
the old reporting system didnt give people an advantage who went without sleep. Mainly due to galaxys organising people who will naturally be online at those times rather than someone staying up all night 'just incase'. Also, when someone realises they've got incomings that night (via early prelaunch or leaks.. they will still have to stay up or wake up early, to help sort defence.. cross defend in galaxy, etc.

Activity in planetarion is rewarded through defence and more attacking, reporting is and never was a major element in planetarion. Ive only seen it happen afew times each round and was very rarely a top planet.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 13:20   #17
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
Activity in planetarion is rewarded through defence and more attacking, reporting is and never was a major element in planetarion. Ive only seen it happen afew times each round and was very rarely a top planet.
erm my dear Light, how can u say such a thing. Reporting incs has been a very important and big element in planetarion..

1)If u do not get yer incs reported at all = ure only chance to survive is ingal defence (have downplayed your chances of gettin covered alot already)

2)If your incomings are reported later between the 2 ticks it still means there is more chance for the attack to land due to having maybe no additional fleets in alliance to cover the incoming that was reported later; or there was no DC around nemore when it was xx:37 for instance; or there wasnt enough time to organize a proper defence nemore

etc, can continue with even more things that concern the reporting of incomings..
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Unread 27 May 2010, 14:56   #18
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
erm my dear Light, how can u say such a thing. Reporting incs has been a very important and big element in planetarion..
yes but so was getting up at 4am to live-launch your fleet when there was no pre-launch. Its not a very important element in planetarion in terms of skill, or even individual activity. Making sure your galaxy has someone online at the start of every single tick for the round or else you risk being roided isnt good game design nor should it be critical. It only punishes the lower and more inactive galaxys and the planets inside those galaxys, arnt they punished enough that more people will be noob roiding them?

Quote:
1)If u do not get yer incs reported at all = ure only chance to survive is ingal defence (have downplayed your chances of gettin covered alot already)
Yes but which galaxys are most likely not to get there incs reported? further compounding the problem of lower/crappier galaxys.

Quote:
2)If your incomings are reported later between the 2 ticks it still means there is more chance for the attack to land due to having maybe no additional fleets in alliance to cover the incoming that was reported later; or there was no DC around nemore when it was xx:37 for instance; or there wasnt enough time to organize a proper defence nemore
but why should someone be able to free roid me, just due to me not being online 24/7? No player is online for 24/7 and they shouldnt be punished just for not being in one of the best/most active galaxys.

Alliances still need to organise defence and they still need people online to send defence. This change isnt doing much except for giving inactive/casual players a slightly better chance that they will be defended if they're in an alliance but also note, that the planet needs to be upgraded.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 16:01   #19
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

as ive said before i think this feature isnt affecting me even 1 small bit, however i do not like the fact that things like that get more and more automated, things that imho should also depend even a little bit on player`s activity.. therefore i seriously do agree with Patrikc`s idea of em being reported at least half way through the tick or even later.. this would give the inactive planets still a chance to get covered by alliance and doesnt take away another element from the game (which in my eyes is the element of surprise or however u wanna call it; sneaking in the gal on odd times)..

now as i said i cant see this feature harming my own gameplay, however if i try to think it in the light of new player`s game then i see this could even harm em, as they also do get more resistance against their attacks on lower active gals due to this autoreporting (yes, if they are paid and in alliances)
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Unread 27 May 2010, 16:41   #20
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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They got through numerous times because incs were not reported[...]
Can you show us some good facts that support your theory here? While I do not disbelief that a good portion got through because it went without getting reported, I am also pretty sure that there are cases where they were simply not able to cover it (for whatever reason - member being low on def points, not enough fleets available, etc).
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Unread 27 May 2010, 16:42   #21
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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I have no arguments whatsoever, but I don't like the idea.
Because it is not well presented at all. No arguments for it, how it would improve the gameplay experience etc pp.
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Unread 27 May 2010, 18:15   #22
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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My suggestion is that to activate this you have to have say 35 members of your population in a certain area.

Wish suggested security but then i think late round everyone has masses of security anyway so this might detract from the advantage.
What about linking it to construction instead of population, either security centers or a new construction? Maybe it could even work similarly to res labs where you need a certain percentage for it to be active. This would make it discoverable via scanning intel, require people to choose somewhat between their con %, and open the feature up to SKs.
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Unread 28 May 2010, 01:41   #23
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Heartless View Post
Because it is not well presented at all. No arguments for it, how it would improve the gameplay experience etc pp.
This isnt a job interview, amuses me that you seem to want a full on report on it all, especially when you for one dont even play the game anymore?

It was an idea i came up with very briefly and didnt think it through fully, it was more to plant the idea and see what other people thought and how they would manipulate something like it. (eg Patrikcs suggestion)


I have no proof of the fleets getting through, i didnt sit there and log it all down, didnt expect a feature which in my opinion is pretty awful to come in like this. I do remember rasputin getting through quite alot very randomly due to late reporting. (and that was when app had loads of anti fi/co home).
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Unread 28 May 2010, 01:47   #24
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

Benneh, I may not be playing but I am applying the same expectations for you on this forum that I apply for everyone else. There are of course always ideas which, no matter how badly they are presented, hit an opinion quite a few people hold. However, from a game design point of view it is just not worth listening to it.
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Unread 28 May 2010, 01:57   #25
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Benneh View Post
This isnt a job interview, amuses me that you seem to want a full on report on it all, especially when you for one dont even play the game anymore?

It was an idea i came up with very briefly and didnt think it through fully, it was more to plant the idea and see what other people thought and how they would manipulate something like it. (eg Patrikcs suggestion)


I have no proof of the fleets getting through, i didnt sit there and log it all down, didnt expect a feature which in my opinion is pretty awful to come in like this. I do remember rasputin getting through quite alot very randomly due to late reporting. (and that was when app had loads of anti fi/co home).

That gal was full of lazy ****ers though, we knew they were going to be lazy preround, but man they reported incs at eta 5/6
This was round 35 if anyone wonders.
So your point is fully valid yes, rasputin would never have landed if the incs had been autoreported. We have lost a tactic, and you can expect it to be lot harder to land from now on, with alliances having ALL incs reported right after tick.

Im sure as hell not going to let any of you mofos land on Apprime, so from an alliance point of view, i love this feature.
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Unread 28 May 2010, 14:06   #26
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

Light: can pre-launching not be detected by scans anymore?

It's been a while since I last played but when I did it was often forbidden due to the large risk of totally bollocksing up an attack!

(ergo back then it was advantageous to stay up rather than prelaunching...)

"but why should someone be able to free roid me, just due to me not being online 24/7?"

because it is inherent in the game design - I agree that that sucks, and its a big part of why I can't be arsed to play but the only way to fix it is to rewrite the game such that it no longer even resembles planetarion as we know it!
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Unread 28 May 2010, 16:25   #27
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

The notification system can e-mail you when you get incomings you know. I have my email on phone set up to work as a sms, so no need to be online 24/7 unless you get sms/mail from your ally, or from PA.
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Unread 28 May 2010, 19:33   #28
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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The notification system can e-mail you when you get incomings you know. I have my email on phone set up to work as a sms, so no need to be online 24/7 unless you get sms/mail from your ally, or from PA.
If you get emailed/sms'd when you get incomings, isnt 'clicking notify alliance' button in the gal status kind of redundant already for upgraded players? It only means they have to rush online asap to click one button.
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Unread 28 May 2010, 21:25   #29
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Re: Inactive Reporting - A Population Option?

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Originally Posted by Light View Post
If you get emailed/sms'd when you get incomings, isnt 'clicking notify alliance' button in the gal status kind of redundant already for upgraded players? It only means they have to rush online asap to click one button.
Notifications can, believe it or not, be changed!

Just apply everything that has been said about auto-reporting to notifications as well, it is practically the same thing.
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