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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 06:19   #1
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Pax.5 Beta

Was alot of fun and ive got a good feeling after playin the beta that 10.5 will be an awesome rnd.
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 06:21   #2
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

4.327.806 / 1

Started late, cost me all night, but i had fun!!
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 10:21   #3
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Beta was evil :/

All u meanies attacking me :'(

But i like what i've seen from the game =) would have been better when ships would get multiple targets imho :P, but thats beside the point. I think i'll enjoy Pa10.5, though i am wondering how many payment options there will be :/
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 15:03   #4
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

beta was cool. 10.5 should be a lot better than 10. C U there.
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 15:18   #5
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Doubt it
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Rd1 ---> 2 26 9 Captain Stone Chance of Dalriada [WAC/Leviathan federation]
Rd2 ---> 53 25 20 The First General of P'holt [TFD]
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 15:18   #6
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

beta sucked :[ if u lsot all your fleet on an attack near the start, then thats that. round over. hmmm ... which ok I continued playing n got back up .... but people new to the game would prolly jsut quit.

If PA's interested in getting new ppl into the game, who are just bound to die on attacks, surely adding salvage for attacking ships would be a good idea?
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 15:38   #7
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

If you ever find this elusive 'new person' you speak of, point him in the direction of a battlecalc.

Anyway rd10.5

Except all the comical new bugs that suddenly appeared yesterday... but I'm sure they'll be (mostly) fixed by the real tickstart.
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 17:36   #8
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Sorry thunder u dident win after all

Final rankings

Planets - Top 100
Rank Change Coord Ruler Planet Size Score
1 1 12:7:4 MDK Elysium Pe0n 2828 4.882.598
2 1 12:3:3 Thunder Owner Newt 1823 4.729.897
3 14:2:1 Mr Xsploit Resovoir Dogs 536 4.156.385
4 12:7:10 d-sun roid heaven 959 3.678.872
5 3:8:9 tone tonester 1407 3.475.179
6 9:5:1 Planet Pain 897 3.097.500
7 12:7:3 Silverfang! PlanetDoomday 1538 3.088.369
8 9:5:10 Zernin Eve Online 1450 2.972.157
9 12:1:7 Tryout Lalalalaaa 609 2.798.862
10 12:1:6 Lews Therin Telamon Plays It Again 759 2.543.947
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 17:54   #9
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
beta sucked :[ if u lsot all your fleet on an attack near the start, then thats that. round over. hmmm ... which ok I continued playing n got back up .... but people new to the game would prolly jsut quit.

If PA's interested in getting new ppl into the game, who are just bound to die on attacks, surely adding salvage for attacking ships would be a good idea?

Thats aint right, I lost my entire fleet after like 150 ticks and still made it to TOP #1

Same with my galmate he lost all his ships in same attack and he made it to TOP #7


I think PAX.5 will rock as soon as they raise stats on Zik ships
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 18:07   #10
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

well yeh ... I quit for a few hours came back and still made top20 before bed again ... but if you're new to the game, lose all your fleet, you'd just quit unless you were having the time of your life.

but then again, I guess PA arent expecting any new players ;\
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 19:30   #11
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
but if you're new to the game, lose all your fleet, you'd just quit unless you were having the time of your life.
I don't quite get this....

r3/4/5/6 was also about major noob bashing at some points, where less actives got annihilated when being away. Yet this didn't really influence the total of planets playing, as r4 had 180k + planets, which dropped due to p2p.

And how do you expect fleets not to die anymore? The point of wargame is not to try and inflict as less damage as possible, besides... there is a small bash limit. And when you don't rush for 2143107359372 roids right away when having no clue about the game u'll be quite save. Just play a bit holded back, iniating a few roids, build ships to protect it.. etc etc.
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Unread 12 Mar 2004, 19:39   #12
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

mmm r4 may have had 180k+ planets, but no more than 30k actual players ... if that.

To be honest, I've never been bashed before :| [unless intentional suicide / one of my usual ****ups] so the thought only occured to me last night. but thats not hte only problem I guess, the entire game is ttoally anti-new players.

eg if a new player only inits, gets a few ships ... he isnt gonan enjoy the game and will jsut quit anyway :s
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Unread 13 Mar 2004, 02:57   #13
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

With the core mining lark back, the small planets have the quivelent of an extra 90 roids you can't take away from them. I don't think there'll be many problems rebuilding fleet.
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Unread 13 Mar 2004, 14:12   #14
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
mmm r4 may have had 180k+ planets, but no more than 30k actual players ... if that.

To be honest, I've never been bashed before :| [unless intentional suicide / one of my usual ****ups] so the thought only occured to me last night. but thats not hte only problem I guess, the entire game is ttoally anti-new players.

eg if a new player only inits, gets a few ships ... he isnt gonan enjoy the game and will jsut quit anyway :s
I dont know where your getting those figures from but they seem extreamly wide of the mark. The estimates for the amount of multies ect was al;ways given by spinner to be at around the 30k mark leaving about 150k active players.

However most people whom had been around since r1/r2 would have noticed a significant change in the games enviorment. Bashing became something that was just that little more acceptable and needed than before and new/small players went from being people whom you could teach to pains in the neck. It was also when people seemed to really get sick of the game and start quitting, where as in the past when you were bashed small players were more inclinded to carry on and would still be playing at the end of the round during r4 this stopped being the case after a couple of bashings people would quit and never come back.

You just had to look at the forums to see people became disalusioned with the game throughout this round, the amount of complaining went through the roof as small players couldnt survive, big players ultimatly had fewer viable targets as the small just got so small and inactive and the community spirit just drained out of the game. I really do believe that even if p2p hadnt happened the playing numbers would have started to tail off as existing players started quitting and new players were put off by the bad word of mouth that was starting, it was probally the worst time that could have been choose for the game to go p2p as itts attraction was decreasing and many who were caught in two minds had their inds made up by the fact the game just wasnt worth paying for in many peoples minds.

As for Wandows comment about holding back, you really havent played this game much at the lower end have you because if you had you would know its not that easy. You can play smart, and keep your roid count low but by doing this your hindering your round significantly. You see every tick you have less roids than those around you means you have less resources to spend on ships, the less resources you can spend on ships the more attractive a target you become. Its simply a lose/lose situation.

Small players need greater protection from the big and the stanglehold that the big alliances have on the game needs broken. Big players should be fighting with other big players and small players need to be fighting with other small players, not big players fighting with small players . The problem is the scoring systems used just wont allow this, its just not worth going after a simerlar sized planet because your losses will be greater so any points gained will just cover the points lost and you wont get anywhere, its why we need a true score/honour system in place that isnt based on how many ships we have but on our acheivements during the round and how honourable our targets choices were. A planet should lose the majority of their points and their ranking just because they went for a resonable sized target and lost loads of ships. He in fact should be rewarded for how well he did in the battle with the size of the target being a deciding factor on how much you score. The current scoring system should ONLY be used to decide how honourable the attack is, the number of ships and roids shows how big you are and if you choose to attack someone of simerlar size and you inflict alot of damage you should be rewarded with alot of score but you hit someone smaller you will find yourself losing score for attacking a soft target. The most important factor in this scoring system for teh small players is that loosing all your ships is no longer the end of the world, you wont yourself lose any score for being bashed all you lose is some of your size which just dicates who you realisticly attack to gain a score boost .

@Bladze. Your wrong there, you may have mines which can help you rebuild but the first time your bashed and lose most of your ships you basically stick a "I'm an easy target" sticker on your planet and you get wave after wave coming in before you ahev any chance to rebuild to a decent size
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Unread 13 Mar 2004, 14:53   #15
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
As for Wandows comment about holding back, you really havent played this game much at the lower end have you because if you had you would know its not that easy. You can play smart, and keep your roid count low but by doing this your hindering your round significantly. You see every tick you have less roids than those around you means you have less resources to spend on ships, the less resources you can spend on ships the more attractive a target you become. Its simply a lose/lose situation.
trust me when i say i know perfectly what you mean, my planetarion history so far hasn't been that impressing, mainly due to the gals i ended in (i haven't been in a decent gal once in a random round). So i know very well how it is to be on the receiving en over and over again. I usually end up losing my fleet atleast 3 times a round, this because of circumstances you can't avoid, like not being able to check when having to work for a day etc. This usually meant for me i had to keep my roidcount lower with a fairly ok fleet defending it. It will ruin my chance on a top spot, but i don't really have a choise when the gal isn't able to support when having incomings.

And personally i don't think unorganised new players play to get a high spot right away. When playing alone or with little chance on help you have no choise but to lay back, as if you don't you'll attract way to much incoming. And this is mainly based on the rounds i have played in random gals with lot of inactives (hello pa r4 - PaX, except for r7 and r9.5 iirc ).
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Unread 13 Mar 2004, 15:55   #16
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

You dont have to be going for top spot for keeping your roids to hinder your progress. Low roid counts are simply NOT that much of discouragement for people attacking you and the more growth you give away to try and stay safe the more of a target you make youself. Yes playing smarter may result in you being lower down the initial target list but it doesnt take long before those who have gone overboard have been bashed so much that they cant be hit anymore which leaves them with two possible targets groups of a)Those who have played at a competative level and b) Those who played safe. Group a planets dont normally have any advantages over the group b ones, they are in the same alliances, same kind of galaxies, have the skill and experiance levels and the only difference is a has more roids. More roids may seem on paper to make a better target but in reality they arent, they havent gone overboard so have missed out on the initial targets BUT they havent gone all out saftey so have had more resources coming in and have much more competative fleets than group b. Group b are hence much better targets as losses will be lighter and the ships required to send out to take part in the attack are fewer meaning you have ships to go on another attack elsehwere which ultimatly makes the roid haul greater. At the same time the falling ranking of a saftey player makes these more and more appealing to the competative player and also drags the this group of players into range of groups of other saftey players or previous bashed players. You basically end up being a valid target for most of the universe and ultimatly have more incoming than if you had tried to play competative.

The problem is to play competivily takes alot of skill and activity under the current scoring system and its just so easy to get slightly wrong and go from being a competative mid ranked planet to a low ranked planet with no ships. Over estimate the level you should be at and you amke your self roid fat for the ships you have, under estimate and you fidn yourself dropping off the pace and becoming an attractive target for a greater number of players
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Unread 14 Mar 2004, 03:13   #17
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Post Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
@Bladze. Your wrong there, you may have mines which can help you rebuild but the first time your bashed and lose most of your ships you basically stick a "I'm an easy target" sticker on your planet and you get wave after wave coming in before you ahev any chance to rebuild to a decent size
Agreed. But relative to previous rounds people have a lot more hope of building back. Newt's comments make it seem the phenomenon is unique to 10.5 but it's been a fact of PA since the start, and it's a little late to start moaning about it now in a thread that was supposed to be encrouaging people to play the new round.

Changing the scoring isn't the full answer imo. People like to throw huge fleets around (it's just regular 'big dick syndrome'). They don't strive for the higher ranks because of the rank itself, but because the value of their fleet gives them power over players in the lower ranks. Noone really cares if you're rank 1 if you're pasting a woosy fleet to your DC everytime there's defence needed. I seriously believe players will happily sacrifice higher ranks/score if it means saving their fleet (and that means avoiding the more honourable battles).
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Unread 14 Mar 2004, 14:18   #18
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Moving to a score/honour system doesnt mean that someone with very few ships will be ranked number 1. Your ships still play a vital part in your ranking because its these ships that gain you your score in battle. The fewer ships you have the lower planet value you have so the smaller targets you can hit . When your attacking a planet in this system your score increase is dependant on the honour multiplier and the kills you make. The honour multiplier encourages you to attack bigger targets than you would before (and losses you score for attacking those too small) and the fact that the kills are part of the equation means that that the greater the value you are the greater valued planets you can attack whom have more ships so more potential score for yourself and ultimatly a greater ranking gain. So if you go out and lose your fleets you wont immediatly drop places but your hinder your progress in future because your potential targets will yield lower score gains and you may find you cant attack anyone for a while as you rebuild thus losing more ranking places.

As for saying some people dont care about rankings and just want to bash, thats their choice but doing so will see them lose more and more score while those being bashed may lose roids and ships But they wont lose everything they have gained during the round. These acheivments in this system are with you throughout the roun (unless you decide to bash and lose them that way) and actually when being bashed you are most likly to come away with greater score than you started as the value difference will reward you greatly for any defensive kills you make
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Unread 15 Mar 2004, 04:09   #19
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

There's essentially two different ways of doing it.
  • The amount of score you get depends totally on your value vs your targets value. Thus a 1 Mil player attacking a 1Mil player will get just as much score as a 100k player attacking a 100k player, assuming the battle is the same with everything (ship numbers, roids capped, etc...) scaled down appropriately.
  • The amount of score depends on how much you kill/cap, but there's a multiplier based on the ratio of you target's value and your value.

The problem with the first, that I assumed you were talking about I already hilighted.

The problem with the second (which is what we had in round 10, except that it was overshadowed by the value being a part of score as well) is that getting a big fleet is still essential. This means, in the early part of the round players will do everything they can to get cheap, easy roids without losing much fleet (bashing). Later in the round they'll switch to attacking planets their size or bigger, picking up a lot of kills, capping expensive roids, and not caring too much about losing ships. Right at the end they'll suicide into each other. The winners will be the ones that bash most effectively in the beginning, and choose the best moment to switch tactics.

So there's not much less incentive to bash, and those that do get bashed will have small fleets, so they won't be able to get much score. The only difference is that those that get bashed and stay active will have more score than those that go inactive (as happened in round 10), but they'll never approach the scores of people who managed to hold onto their fleet and roids.

The other problem is it's fairly difficult to implement in ways that can't be abused. At the beginning of round 10 people were getting insane amounts of score, and however you do it, there'll be oportunities to setup favourable 'score farming' battles between cooperating players. (eg. I still have a massive fleet, while my alliance mate has suicided already and has a tiny value. I let him attack me). You might also get situations where planets donate their resources to the fund early in the round so they can keep a low value and not lose too much score while bashing.

Something I would really like to see is a 'persistent' universe where those that join the game after tick start (or are bashed) have every chance of catching up. There's no exponential growth, and some way to take away roids and fleet away from the bigger planets (eg. fleet upkeep / tax / roids have limited mining capacity / ships have limited lifespan). In theory you'd never need to reset, and there'd be an ongoing struggle for the top planets/galaxies, with new contenders coming up often, and those that go inactive dropping slowly down the ranks. Monthly prizes or something would give people something to aim for... "This month I'm going to really try hard". But I don't see any way this is possible.
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Unread 15 Mar 2004, 12:33   #20
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newt
mmm r4 may have had 180k+ planets, but no more than 30k actual players ... if that.

To be honest, I've never been bashed before :| [unless intentional suicide / one of my usual ****ups] so the thought only occured to me last night. but thats not hte only problem I guess, the entire game is ttoally anti-new players.

eg if a new player only inits, gets a few ships ... he isnt gonan enjoy the game and will jsut quit anyway :s
Rubbish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Small players need greater protection from the big and the stanglehold that the big alliances have on the game needs broken. Big players should be fighting with other big players and small players need to be fighting with other small players, not big players fighting with small players .
Still preaching the attitude that helped kill Planetarion. The great thing about Planetarion originally was simplicity, despite what people seem to believe there was never a huge amount of bashing, especially post cap, it simply wasn't profitable so long as planets kept sensible sizes and ratios. Once you started adding all the fangled rules to protect newbies the game lost it's edge somewhat, the fact that most of these rules were brought in once there were no new players was also funny, though not quite as funny as you still asking for more, even though there never will be any new players. As for experienced players being small and needing protection, learn to lose I'd have thought most of you would be used to it.
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 01:11   #21
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

What is pa comming too?
Im agreeing with Hicks
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 14:42   #22
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
Still preaching the attitude that helped kill Planetarion. The great thing about Planetarion originally was simplicity, despite what people seem to believe there was never a huge amount of bashing, especially post cap, it simply wasn't profitable so long as planets kept sensible sizes and ratios. Once you started adding all the fangled rules to protect newbies the game lost it's edge somewhat, the fact that most of these rules were brought in once there were no new players was also funny, though not quite as funny as you still asking for more, even though there never will be any new players. As for experienced players being small and needing protection, learn to lose I'd have thought most of you would be used to it.
I find it quite funny that you claim its my kind of 'attitude' thats helped kill PA because in a perfect world I too would like a game where there were no limits because the players had their own code of ethics and morals which would make limits pointless but this isnt a perfect world. We have too many players like yourself who are too much about "ME ME ME". As long as you and your alliance do well you couldnt careless about anyone else. You sit there in your fortress galaxies (either obtained via legal or illegal mean) while your alliance form untouchable blocks which leads to a stand off between all the big alliances and you then turn around and pick on the only possible targets, this being the small players. Any target which gives you a faily good haul of roids and will see you get hardly any ship losses is deemed good. Even if you play well as a small player and start to break away from the bottom it wont last long because it wont take long for a big alliance player to decide your ripe for a raping. You hit them so hard that they stand no chance of doing anything and leave them with a choice of quitting or carrying on and having no fun. This isnt helped by the fact the constant bashing and vast firepower these blocks have leaves these small players with only one target group, THEMSELVES.

As much as I hate limits myself and was against them at first the game does need them now unless this community has a attitude change from being "WIN AT ALL COSTS" to "WIN BUT NOT AT EXPENSE OF EVERYONES ENJOYMENT". If more limits arent brought in or theres not an attitude change the game simply cant go forward because players are leaving in droves as its not fun any more and new people cant get into the game as it doesnt allow for them to grow or have fun
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 15:20   #23
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Oh No ! Someone losing a computer game ? Call the fun police to even things out !

Everyone can't win. Your never going to devise a tick based game where everyone can and where someone who's started 2 months late can come back and win, if you want a nice little utopia with no competition go play something like Jennifer Government. Planetarion was supposed to be a war game not an online chat room where everyone worried about offending others and supporting the community, when people started thinking like this it was bound to lose it's fun side and implode. Did any of you people even launch attacks or did you all just sit on IRC playing happy families ?

Most of us played to win, what else was there to play for ? While I consider the people who I played with friends and I'd gladly lay down my in game life for them I certainly don't care about some guy who I've never spoken to before having a fun time. Also what you seem to fail to understand is it was the "win at all costs" attitude which stopped most of us from bashing, there was never any point going after someone who was tiny, what there was a point in was roiding clown heads who kept stupid ratios or fleets, that's life most of the people who stuck with it learnt the lesson and became top players in their own rights. That was the learning curve, you get hit, you learn the lesson, you make friends, you hit back.

The players are leaving in droves ? What the heck ? There's none left and there are certainly none left who need protecting everyone who still plays is a veteran, the reason new people can't get into the game isn't bashing it's the fact that the game is 3 years out of date and charges an extortionately high price to play even though there are superior free games out there, all your artificial limits did was spoil the enjoyment of the seasoned players and helped them leave, in fact I'm willing to wager that artificial limit to protect no existent newbies had a negative net effect on the player base, pity we have no way to find out.

To sum up, here you go.
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 22:32   #24
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
Oh No ! Someone losing a computer game ? Call the fun police to even things out !

Everyone can't win. Your never going to devise a tick based game where everyone can and where someone who's started 2 months late can come back and win, if you want a nice little utopia with no competition go play something like Jennifer Government. Planetarion was supposed to be a war game not an online chat room where everyone worried about offending others and supporting the community, when people started thinking like this it was bound to lose it's fun side and implode. Did any of you people even launch attacks or did you all just sit on IRC playing happy families ?

Most of us played to win, what else was there to play for ? While I consider the people who I played with friends and I'd gladly lay down my in game life for them I certainly don't care about some guy who I've never spoken to before having a fun time. Also what you seem to fail to understand is it was the "win at all costs" attitude which stopped most of us from bashing, there was never any point going after someone who was tiny, what there was a point in was roiding clown heads who kept stupid ratios or fleets, that's life most of the people who stuck with it learnt the lesson and became top players in their own rights. That was the learning curve, you get hit, you learn the lesson, you make friends, you hit back.

The players are leaving in droves ? What the heck ? There's none left and there are certainly none left who need protecting everyone who still plays is a veteran, the reason new people can't get into the game isn't bashing it's the fact that the game is 3 years out of date and charges an extortionately high price to play even though there are superior free games out there, all your artificial limits did was spoil the enjoyment of the seasoned players and helped them leave, in fact I'm willing to wager that artificial limit to protect no existent newbies had a negative net effect on the player base, pity we have no way to find out.

To sum up, here you go.
WHERE did i say anything about everyone winning, you wont see me saying that anywhere. However losing at something shouldnt mean it isnt fun, you might feel disapointed at losing but you shouldnt feel as if you didnt get any enjoyment out of it. You can not have fun when some idiot bigger than your galaxy combined keeps coming back with his mates day after day to kill your ships if you dont run and give him cheap roids. You can sit there and deny that bashing goes on but your a fool if you believe that. Just spend a round without using any of your well placed friends to help you out and your soon change your mind. As for do we ever launch attacks, not very often as its a little hard to attack anyone when your ships (if you have any left) are needed for defending yourself or your galaxy from the onslaught from those much bigger than yourself.

And keeping good ratios doesnt stop the bashing, that a myth which the big alliances put around to take the heat off their tactics. You can keep a good ratio of ships to roids but if your not in one of the top 8-10 alliances you will be bashed no matter what your ratio, a number of planets will turn up with kill fleets hopeing to catch you offline to remove you fleets and they will then come back with more friends to roid you till you have so few roids your no good. And why do they do this, because they are cowards who refuse to pick on better targets whom have a big alliance membership as they might lose some ships.

Anyway you really do come across clueless at times Hicks, either that or you live in some kind of dream world where everyone can succeed if they play well enough, where the big players dont bash and where theres real compitition. In reality you have no chance of succeeding as its nigh on impossible to get off that bottom rung no matter how well you play the game UNLESS you already have friends in high places, big players do bash no matter how much they wish to deny it (either that or theres alot of phantom big planets attacking the smaller players) and theres CERTAINLY no compitition. Big players attacking small players becuase they are too scared of attacking the better sized planets as it might start a real compitition between the alliances and not the whole stand off each other before putting in one battle right at the end to show everyone "look we do fight each other"

And since when have limits been there ti only help protect newbies. There are always losers and just because your a veteran doesnt mean you wont be a loser and limits are there to protect them just as much as anyone else.

I'll use my normal example of an eco system here to highlight the problem PA has. The eco system of an African game reserve might consist of Lions at the top, antalops and then grass. Any of these groups getting out of control can have major problems on the whole eco system. Too much grass will make it easier for the lions to hunt thus decimating the antalope which will then cause problems for the lions, too many antalopes will see the grass being eaten quicker than it regrows causing analopes to have no food and die which then gives the same problem to the lions and too many lions means antalop numbers fall which makes lion numbers then fall when theres not enough prey.. PA is the same without controls on each group of players to ensure that theres more meduim sized players than large and more small players than meduim the games in trouble and for too long these controls havent been there so as the small players have been leaving in droves after getting sick of being bashed, the lack of targets means the meduim players struggle to find targets and they become greater targets for the big players so their numbers also fall and ultimatly the big players then start to fall..More controls need put in place to control the numbers in each of these groups which means making it either so hitting the small is harder (or will lose you score) or making it so being bashed doesnt ruin a persons round thus driving them off (or both) and it also means making it so alliances at the top will actually take each other on so we dont have so many big alliances (and thus big players)
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 22:44   #25
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

i think the way forward is creating an environment whereby the large players want to hit other large players. at the moment roids are cheaper at smaller planets, and that's all that's important. therefore if you want to protect small players you have to place artificial limits.

pa needs to change, but it certainly doesn't need silly limits

[edit]
keeping a good limit does stop bashing to a point, as people go for the cheapest roids - if yours are more expensive than others then noone wants them. however, the "good limit" has often reached a point whereby it involves having no roids by the time the round's been running a while. resulting in most planets being over it and getting bashed
[/edit]

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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 22:58   #26
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And keeping good ratios doesnt stop the bashing, that a myth which the big alliances put around to take the heat off their tactics. You can keep a good ratio of ships to roids but if your not in one of the top 8-10 alliances you will be bashed no matter what your ratio, a number of planets will turn up with kill fleets hopeing to catch you offline to remove you fleets and they will then come back with more friends to roid you till you have so few roids your no good. And why do they do this, because they are cowards who refuse to pick on better targets whom have a big alliance membership as they might lose some ships.
What a clueless post. Have you actually played this game?

I got hit one time during r2 using that tactic... (and I logged in max every 5th day).
In r3, there were alot of people in my cluster I just couldnt hit, including a guy with 2k roids (Star-Erazor) becouse it wasnt economical (ie the cost outstripped the gains).
Why? Becouse he had a good combo of PDS and WF/Ghost.
And nobody else bothered to hit him either, even those who were far larger than my 200mill planet.

Its always a good thing to know something about the subject before you write on it.
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Unread 16 Mar 2004, 23:37   #27
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
What a clueless post. Have you actually played this game?

I got hit one time during r2 using that tactic... (and I logged in max every 5th day).
In r3, there were alot of people in my cluster I just couldnt hit, including a guy with 2k roids (Star-Erazor) becouse it wasnt economical (ie the cost outstripped the gains).
Why? Becouse he had a good combo of PDS and WF/Ghost.
And nobody else bothered to hit him either, even those who were far larger than my 200mill planet.

Its always a good thing to know something about the subject before you write on it.
Yes I have played the game and am in a situation to know what I'm talking about here. Having a good ratio DOESNT stop you being bashed, it is a situation I've had to myself deal with for a good few rounds now and no matter how low i keep my roids to make myself less attractive compared to those around me I still get bashed. And as I said its often not for immediate gain or even any gain for those bashing, they simply want my ships out of the way. if I run they pull and let their smaller friend (still much bigger than myself) take my roids and if i stay they destroy my ships and leave me there for their smaller friend to take my roids.

And your examples are from a differnet time when the game was differnt where your quite right playing smart could bear fruit, today thats not the case
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Unread 17 Mar 2004, 00:04   #28
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Yes I have played the game and am in a situation to know what I'm talking about here. Having a good ratio DOESNT stop you being bashed, it is a situation I've had to myself deal with for a good few rounds now and no matter how low i keep my roids to make myself less attractive compared to those around me I still get bashed. And as I said its often not for immediate gain or even any gain for those bashing, they simply want my ships out of the way. if I run they pull and let their smaller friend (still much bigger than myself) take my roids and if i stay they destroy my ships and leave me there for their smaller friend to take my roids.

And your examples are from a differnet time when the game was differnt where your quite right playing smart could bear fruit, today thats not the case
oh god.

I admit r2/r3 was different. 1) random galaxies 2) larger playerbase.

But you could also do this in the other rounds.

This is how you do it (depends slighlty on priv/random gal ofc).

1) Accept that you will loose some roids.
2) If you cant cover it, move away your ships.
3) Grow in leaps.
4) Choose terran, and build chimeras.
5) With a score of 2mill and 100 roids and all your score in chims, you wont get attacked.
6) In the early parts of the game, you can have a better score-roids ratio than in the middle part. Becouse at the begining there is still the major wars going on, and more fat targets than yourself out there. In the middle part, after the first major wars is over, you gotta stay low again. Then when the big boys stab each other again, you can continue to add roids.
In the end you can also have a descent ratio, becouse roids will not longer be that attractive.
(this was just an exampel)

Wakey, you have now been given Zhukovs first lesson in "Surviving in the PA universe as a n00b/inactive".

The problem with this, is that you wont grow very large (rounds r5 onwords). To grow large you need friends/c-alliance/alliance/BG (HELP for short)..
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Unread 17 Mar 2004, 10:50   #29
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

100 roids for a whole round? is there any point playing?

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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 02:04   #30
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

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Originally Posted by mist
100 roids for a whole round? is there any point playing?

-mist

When you want to play like a chicken shit, and dont spend any time/effort on the game (ie getting people to defend you) wtf can you exepct??????????????

Sometimes I wonder what some of you think this game is.
GO PLAY THE SIMS OR SOMETHING.
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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 11:45   #31
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

It isn't that big a problem to start as a noob in planetarion. I was away from round 6 to PAX.
Started playing again 2weeks after PaX started, and i didnt remember many nicks from old communities.. So i started from scratch.. And ofc, the ship-stats in Pax was like a new game to me when i joined, since i hadnt played since round6.
I joined a gal.. exiled myself cause it wasn't good enough, then i came in a gal with Vengeance and Fang members. First 2-3weeks i played without alliance and it wasn't a problem growing, but after a while both fang and vengeance-members in my gal asked if i wanted to join their alliance.. I chose vengeance because i didn't want the game to be too "easy".. Not that i have anything against Fang, but i just remember how easy it was to be in a top-alliance when i played in rnd2-rnd6.. So joined Vengeance which was rank 12-13 or something? Even tho they were smaller they covered pretty much all incomings and organised great attacks.

This is an example of how easy it can be for a new player to have fun without any contacts at all when you start playing. I'm sure i would have lot of fun in smaller alliances too. If you have 10 members in an alliance you can do good. (If not all in same gal

Thanks to vgn for letting me in

Any "Noobs" out there?
#vgn on irc.netgamers.org and speak to some @'s, I'm sure they'll let you in if you got the spirit!

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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 13:19   #32
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
When you want to play like a chicken shit, and dont spend any time/effort on the game (ie getting people to defend you) wtf can you exepct??????????????.
this usually involves in being in one of hte big alliances, which is rather tricky for someone new to the game, or without the right friends

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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 13:59   #33
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

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Originally Posted by mist
this usually involves in being in one of hte big alliances, which is rather tricky for someone new to the game, or without the right friends

-mist
Err.. it's not tricky to find an alliance if you're willing to fight with them, and not let them fight for you. Maybe you could read the reply above.
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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 14:53   #34
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
When you want to play like a chicken shit, and dont spend any time/effort on the game (ie getting people to defend you) wtf can you exepct??????????????

Sometimes I wonder what some of you think this game is.
GO PLAY THE SIMS OR SOMETHING.

As much as Zhukov is arrogant and up himself he's completely right. You can't expect to achieve the same level of success as someone else without putting in the same amount of effort with the same ability. No game in the world would work with a system whereby people got randomly awarded score for being "nice". And nobody new has the "all alliances won't let me in!" excuse anymore.
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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 14:56   #35
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

fuz you really have over simplified things, probally due to the sheer luck you seemed to have when you exiled. For most its not as easy as that, they want to check the game out, they get bashed due to a weak galaxy, they exile and find themselves in a galaxy where someone just exiled from and see its no better. They get bashed a bit more and quit before getting into the game.

And the problem is unless when you being bashed alot of the bigger alliances will write you off as a liability and wont touch you leaving you being stuck with only the smaller alliances to choose from, and trust me its not like the situation you decribe for small alliances even with numbers greater than your 10 and where most of these players are vetrans with alot of skill and experiance to call upon its tough.

And yes we could send all the newbies and lowbies to big alliances and somehow force them to take them into their ranks but I have to say I dont think thats the solution either. It may sound like a good idea in the fact it gives everyone a chance but the lack of compitition could become a problem. It was one of the problems we started to get as soon as blocks started to appear as things stagnated due to the lack competing parties, When you have so few competing parties they just end up in a 'cold war' situation for much of it where one super power faces up to the other but neither are willing to make the first move due to the destruction they might face if they did indeed make the first move. Games like this are at their best when theres a significant number of groups all viaing for the top position and all have the resources to atleast try and take it. Its why i'd personally like to see tighter size limits on alliances simply so the big alliances have to split into two thus increasing the number of competing groups thus making the game more vibrant
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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 15:04   #36
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
As much as Zhukov is arrogant and up himself he's completely right. You can't expect to achieve the same level of success as someone else without putting in the same amount of effort with the same ability. No game in the world would work with a system whereby people got randomly awarded score for being "nice". And nobody new has the "all alliances won't let me in!" excuse anymore.
The problem here is small players general a) arent expecting to get a top 100 position they just want to have fun and b) often dont put any less time and effort into the game until some idiot whos much bigger than them decided to make his 3rd appearance that week to their planet to destroy their fleet and then steal easy roid. Score should be awarded on how well you play the game and tuirning up at a planet wihos much smaller and destroying all their ships IS NOT playing the game well, its playing the game like a coward and a bully. Thats something a monkey could do given enough ships ffs
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Unread 18 Mar 2004, 15:18   #37
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

The point is that the game also turns on how the individuals in question obtain those ships. We all start off at the same point, 6 roids and bugger all else. Playing the game well is an exercise only measured in it's totality. If bashing works though it is playing the game well. To win the game you have the most points. You get points by xyz. If xyz involves raping 3 small planets just inside your range every night instead of attacking larger planets then xyz is how to win the game. If the game cannot work without xyz as the basic system then that's how you win the game. Most of the larger players put in the effort at same prior point and this has gotten them to where they are now. If smaller players don't put in the same effort with the same skill they just can't be on the same score. It makes no sense.

It's fairly obvious why PA has steadily gotten shitter over the past seven rounds though. Less low-level players and less medium level players to be hit by the higher level players means that the existing low-medium level planets get hit with greater frequency in order for the undiminished number of higher level planets to grow at the maximum rate possible. Of course I think this will probably change soon due to the fact there are less high level players left in the game (due to a lot of the better alliances disbanding and their memberbase leaving). PA will never work or grow again without being free to attract the numbers of low level planets to create the necessary resources for the high level planets to exist. The high level planets being the ones who make the game what it is.

Edit: I seem to come on here and say the same thing every six weeks, for the past two years heh.
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Unread 19 Mar 2004, 15:19   #38
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball
4.327.806 / 1

Started late, cost me all night, but i had fun!!
;-) Way to go m8 and welcome home from Heaven :-)

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Unread 19 Mar 2004, 20:21   #39
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Re: Pax.5 Beta

Quote:
Originally Posted by ^MDK^MAN^
Sorry thunder u dident win after all

Final rankings

Planets - Top 100
Rank Change Coord Ruler Planet Size Score
1 1 12:7:4 MDK Elysium Pe0n 2828 4.882.598
2 1 12:3:3 Thunder Owner Newt 1823 4.729.897
3 14:2:1 Mr Xsploit Resovoir Dogs 536 4.156.385
4 12:7:10 d-sun roid heaven 959 3.678.872
5 3:8:9 tone tonester 1407 3.475.179
6 9:5:1 Planet Pain 897 3.097.500
7 12:7:3 Silverfang! PlanetDoomday 1538 3.088.369
8 9:5:10 Zernin Eve Online 1450 2.972.157
9 12:1:7 Tryout Lalalalaaa 609 2.798.862
10 12:1:6 Lews Therin Telamon Plays It Again 759 2.543.947
WTF, when I went to bed tickers where stopped, I didn't sleep really and 2 hours later I got up for my trip to Vegas!!! Now i'm back, and I hear that it ticked a couple of more ticks!! Most disappointing moment of my life You roided me evol!! Hehe, wel congratz then m8 We had fun didn't we, I didn't find any real bugs, sorry about that Spinner

And cbk... It is really heaven in Vegas!! Damn, so ****ing good!
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