Forest and Cheaters.

[Hicks]

Since I can't respond in the other thread I'll do it here, there were two points I was trying to make. Firstly, Forest got made fun of on IRC, someone inform CNN ! It happens to everyone at some point, I'm sure 99% of the community are unlikely to believe the fact he is a paedophile because a few teenagers said he is on the Internet, I also doubt Scotland Yard will be sledge hammering his door in tomorrow morning because of it.

The argument about lines being crossed is null and void, the fact is those lines have been crossed on these forums and indeed netgamers IRC numerous times in the past 4 years and I don't recall many of these people crying for sympathy on the forums, it's something most people are just able to deal with. There's absolutely no need for him to post a thread about his heinous experience except to massage his ego and show what a good guy he is to the greater community and guess what ? if he does this on a public forum I reserve the right to tell him exactly what I think of him and his post. His ego is at stake that's why he's tied the whole thing in so tightly to his stance against cheating the facts are:

1) Forest joined a galaxy with know cheats, people who have been deleted in the recent past for cheating and to be honest have shown no evidence of changing. The fact he exiled one of them was probably more out of self-interest than out of being a good guy
2) Forest himself has cheated in the recent past, in fact throughout much of his career.
3) He joins a galaxy with a bunch of people who are know to be cyber warriors giving it on IRC, frankly it's his own fault.

His credentials as a white knight are hardly spotless, the fact is he tries to make them so obvious is proof of that, the worst bit is that most of you people bite, feeling sorry for poor Forest the victim, wakeup.

The second point was unrelated to Forest and about the hypocrisy show by this community in regards to cheating, the fact is you all tolerate cheaters be it in your circles of friends, in your battle groups, in your alliances or in your galaxies. I also refuse to believe that those of you making such a fuss about cheaters ruining the game have never done anything that's against the rules, your just lucky you haven't been caught. Yet the moment someone outside your group cheats your all up on your high horses telling the world how evil they are.

I guarantee that the top planets this round have farmed, been escorted and used scan bases and I also guarantee that almost all of you will be happy to play on with the people who do this next round even if they are caught. If anything responsibility for cheating planets lies with the community itself, if alliances and groups of friends refused to associate with cheaters the costs of cheating would be far greater and hence cheating would be less widespread but it's not, cheaters are never frozen out, there's an initial out cry but most of you will happily work with them again if it boosts the numbers in the asteroid field. Quite frankly the suggestions of life time bans for cheaters from xontas and others in that thread is idiocy because quite frankly so many of you would be affected there would be absolutely no players left.

From the game's point of view the way to combat cheating isn't life time bans for cheaters it's to track them effectively and remove their accounts, if this is done properly the incentive to cheat in future rounds is removed as they know they'll be caught again. This is fairly easy to introduce you get a team of dedicated accountable impartial multi hunters (Else the peons will scream x:y:z is out to get them ala Mordrin) you give them the access to ip logs and the tools they need to do their job and don't tell me these things don't exist, I remember as far back as Round 7 being shown a tool which was rejected by Zeus which was able to track farmers with astonishing accuracy. People have been suggesting this since about Round 2 so with luck we'll see it for Round 19.

In summary and this is mainly at Phil^, xontas and Chimpie think before you post, just because someone refuses to tow the standard hypocritical line on cheating doesn't make them wrong, frankly any departure from the standard thought round here can only be a good thing. Nor does someone refusing to be shocked and give sympathy after false allegations that someone is a paedophile mean that they're flaming. Most of you need to see Forest for what he is, while I'm sure he's a great guy in real life especially for the work he does with children, online he spends most his time trying to boost his own sense of self importance he's done this round after round, time after time, I'd have thought people would have known better by now, equally most of you should take a long hard look at your attitudes towards cheating, it's so widespread it's unbelievable but what's worse is for some reason there seems to be a need to cry out like most of you don't go round doing it yourselves, get your own houses in order before looking at others.

That's me done on my soap box telling you all how much you suck. Feel free to tell me the same I'm going home now and you won't have to put up up with me until Wednesday \o/

[newt]

well, think it goes without saying that I'm in 110% agreement with all that.

But I'll say it anyway.

[BoredOfThis]

I totally agree 115%

[Illogical]

hooray for hicks!

[JonnyBGood]

Personally I'm with forest on the first issue. Cyber warriors got old about eight minutes after the internet was created and to still have some daft trolls running around on irc and not being g-lined whenever one of our benevolent and hardworking ircops happens to wake from his peaceful slumber is just stupid.

[Razorback]

he is not totally far off with what he is saying.
Most ppl have cheated during their past and many have been insulted over the internet.
Nothing special no drama.
If you play an online game with players whos mental or physical age is below 15 you exspect this to happen.

One of my friends offered in r5 a very effective Farmer and escortplanet hunting tool. The idea was dropped because "better tools" were already at hand. Knowing his coding skills alongside of what i have seen from this and other programs i think spinner lied. especially on the review of the following rounds. Simple matter of facts PA sucked because they were unable to get ahold of cheater or they didnt have the guts to go through with it. No moral uproar will change that and quiet frankly i doubt anyone "innocent" cares anymore because there is maybe 1% who might be innocent from the current playerbase throughout all thier history.

[Forest]

Hicks, come out with specific times when I have cheated and i will answer them now.

i have NEVER claimed to be a white knight, but I do say the buck stops here. Enough is enough. Its time to sort this problem our way, my way.

You use your voice to pillar me, yet you pillar me for using mine.

Nothing will change, cheats will be taken down, and it starts now.

[Illogical]

If you want to get players to help find cheats, then you have problems, for example ND/Ely/WP/VsN/FYTFO and co will always want a FAnG planet closed, and vice versa, even if it doesnt include much facts, that why there is the problem at the moment of only like 3 multihunters, who have to investigate everything, as due to it being a paying game people complain when they get deleted for something they claim they didnt do, also not every cheater will beable to be caught, and some will be caught for their targets running their fleets, when it isnt meant they run their fleets.

[xtothez]

Originally Posted by Forest

cheats will be taken down, and it starts now.

You're either ignorant of your white-kinght complex, or just entirely ignorant. I don't see how you could have failed to spot the simple truth:

• Cheating is caused by a desire to win
• A desire to win is caused by wanting to be better than you are
• Wanting to be better is human nature

You are fighting against deeply-ingrained human behaviour in a society of only that species. You will never win. Making grandiose statements like that only allow you to convince yourself and the stupid people around you are better than you really are. 'Fighting' the good cause to stop other people doing the same thing.

Can you see what I did there?

[-=Zyth=-]

I cheated like a hoe in r3, but then those were different days.

[Outh]

Hicks! i'm a top planet! haven't farmed, haven't been escorted, so in my case your wrong at least. Dunno about the other players on top 10 (they all evul and should all be deleted spinner!)

[Razorback]

Outh point however this round is that you stagnated the round to no end and noone accused you but neither can you speak the 9 others free.

[LEFF|pm]

Outh, listen to the man!

Since Eclipse never did cheat nor stagnated a round (*cough*) they have every right to moan about it right know. I mean... they of course are interested in this, as they are still playing this wonderful game and want to have fun like all the others.
...hmm.. But maybe on the other hand, they are just poor derelicts without own boards who cant stand the unbelievable fact, planetarion is not wanting em back...

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Outh

Hicks! i'm a top planet! haven't farmed, haven't been escorted, so in my case your wrong at least. Dunno about the other players on top 10 (they all evul and should all be deleted spinner!)

Preferential picks, attacking with 3 fleets and yes you have been escorted (you _do_ understand how news scans work, right?) by some xan who never sent pods. Incidentally, in no way am I even suggesting that this xan is a multi planet, but it is someone escorting you.

I'm not saying any of this is wrong but please have the decency to admit that you have been given every single chance possible by your alliance to finish in the top spot.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Forest

Hicks, come out with specific times when I have cheated and i will answer them now.

R8 or 9, my memory isnt all that great on exact dates.

I was happily in a galaxy with my mate Cheek. Then 2 or 3 weeks into the round the self imposed great Forest appears and announces that he will be taking over one of the planets in our galaxy. It may well have been Cheek's, i'm not sure. You came into the gal and immediately declared yourself GC and started blabbering on about saving the gal and stopping all our incoming and making us the best thing since sliced bread.

That in itself is cheating, but i will continue.

A few weeks later you disappeared, i cant remember if you came up with an excuse for leaving or not but that doesnt really matter. Not longer after you had gone AWOL from our galaxy i noticed you posting on the forums, which i thought was odd. It struck me as even stranger when you were posting about being involved in a war and attacks that no planet from my galaxy was in.

So we have 2 options here:

1) You were talking a load of BS and in fact werent even playing the game.
2) You had moved to a new planet because you were sick of our gal being battered 24/7.

A month or so after that you reappeared in our galaxy and took control of the planet you had previously had in the gal. Whether or not someone else had been controlling it or not in your 'absence' i'm not sure, but it doesnt really matter.

Oh and before someone comes up with some rubbish about him not being closed for cheating by the multi hunters, i did report Forest but IRC logs and forum posts arent much proof, and my 2 year old cousin could use a proxy server to get round the other multi hunting tools.


P.S. I agree with most of Hick's post, though dicks like FT should be shit at birth.

[Forest]

r9, i did idd take over an account, one in a losing one rather than a winning one (on purpose, i had the offer of both).

I stayed for approx 3 days b4 feeling so bad about the fact that I cheated, that I started a new planet from fresh.

As i said earlier, ive never claimed to be whiter than white, but things do have to change.

I may not be successful on my new 'thing' but i will sure as hell give it a damn good go.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Forest

I stayed for approx 3 days b4 feeling so bad about the fact that I cheated, that I started a new planet from fresh.

lolly roffle

Alcohol may well have clouded a lot of my memory, but i do remember the difference between a few days and a few weeks. Especially when it involves someone such as yourself that makes damn sure you are aware of there presence within a galaxy and IRC channel.

Anywho, thats all in the past and i doubt we'ld find more than a handful of people left in the game that havent cheated at some point. The point is, there is no need to stroke your ego in public when you find someone who is cheating now. There are enough people who report cheaters in private without seeing the need to make a name for themselves.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by JC

1) You were talking a load of BS and in fact werent even playing the game.
.

Pretty much sums it up though.

For the record, I have actually been spouting on about plp like FT, who is an abuser rather than a cheat, same as TP.

[Forest]

Originally Posted by JC

lolly roffle


The point is, there is no need to stroke your ego in public when you find someone who is cheating now. There are enough people who report cheaters in private without seeing the need to make a name for themselves.

Erm, u see things strangely.

I already have a name for myslef. I could quit pa today and would never be forgotten for both good/bad reasons. I dont need to stroke my ego in public.

If i am in this 'foutunate' position, of being able to lead ppl, surely I should use it to the best of my ability, and if it means being very public helps things, then so be it.

And this isnt 1 lonely post, or thread. This is the start of a torenntial downfall that has teh support of nearly all the main alliances, the details of which will bcome public, very public, as soon as I ahve confirmed with a couple more guys.

[cheekybru]

It wasnt my planet JC i remmeber that round well

[Outh]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

Preferential picks, attacking with 3 fleets and yes you have been escorted (you _do_ understand how news scans work, right?) by some xan who never sent pods. Incidentally, in no way am I even suggesting that this xan is a multi planet, but it is someone escorting you.

I'm not saying any of this is wrong but please have the decency to admit that you have been given every single chance possible by your alliance to finish in the top spot.

no, actually both my real life mates are far to selfish to allow me to land alone without pods, so thats wrong ^^. All attacks where i've attacked with them we've been forced to recall. So my concious is clean mate

[JC]

Originally Posted by cheekybru

It wasnt my planet JC i remmeber that round well

Sorry mate didnt meant to accuse you, i couldnt remember whose planet it was, or even what my coords were that round. All i know is you were in the gal .

I already have a name for myslef. I could quit pa today and would never be forgotten for both good/bad reasons. I dont need to stroke my ego in public.

Get your head out of your own arse.

f i am in this 'foutunate' position, of being able to lead ppl, surely I should use it to the best of my ability, and if it means being very public helps things, then so be it.

And this isnt 1 lonely post, or thread. This is the start of a torenntial downfall that has teh support of nearly all the main alliances, the details of which will bcome public, very public, as soon as I ahve confirmed with a couple more guys.

Lead people to what? The rightous land of holy goodness with no cheating ever?

If you are going to start making a major fuss out of anyone who breaks a rule, get ready for a whorde of abuse. At the same time expect the people of these forums to care less and less about the abuse you bring upon yourself everytime you post. I'm not saying you deserve the abuse, but you have to expect it in this role you are trying to play.

You will get the backing of every alliance and individual you talk to, thats pretty ****ing obvious. Noone is going to turn round to you and say "no thanks mate i dont want to crusade against cheaters, i'm quite happy to win a round with cheaters in my alliance". Just because they say they are backing you it doesnt mean they are actively doing anything about it. There will always be alliances and players within PA that have the 'win at all costs' attitude.

Btw, is Touriquet still in FAnG? If he is it kind of puts a black spot on your crusade straight away :eek:.

[Tomkat]

I agree with Hicks. I'm not too sure about the flaming of Forest, as I like the guy, so I'll stay out of that area. If you didn't expect to have trouble with FT & co though, you were a bit naive.

The cheating, yes. People always have and always will cheat. What do they have to lose? An imaginary planet in a virtual universe, and about £5. Hardly a big risk, if it means they can do well in the game.

The bottom line is: Peons don't argue with Hicks.

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Outh

no, actually both my real life mates are far to selfish to allow me to land alone without pods, so thats wrong ^^. All attacks where i've attacked with them we've been forced to recall. So my concious is clean mate

With a distinct lack of vipers there it seems that he obviously magicked to roids away then.

I never said your concience should not be clean, you are in no way breaking the rules. Got anythinng to be paranoid about?

And if you want to talk about selfish I wonder why, when the rest of wolfpack (myself included) we being battered in the first 72 hours of the war against mpf, you only managed to send a single def fleet out. It can't have been that you weren't online because there seemed to be so many attacks being launched. You have to understand that news scans and battle reports don't lie.

Like I said, I'm not calling you a cheat or anything of the sort. But at least me man enough to admit the opportunites you've been given and the ones you have taken while the rest of your alliance is getting the shit kicked out of them.

[Outh]

Originally Posted by mazzelaar

With a distinct lack of vipers there it seems that he obviously magicked to roids away then.

I never said your concience should not be clean, you are in no way breaking the rules. Got anythinng to be paranoid about?

And if you want to talk about selfish I wonder why, when the rest of wolfpack (myself included) we being battered in the first 72 hours of the war against mpf, you only managed to send a single def fleet out. It can't have been that you weren't online because there seemed to be so many attacks being launched. You have to understand that news scans and battle reports don't lie.

Like I said, I'm not calling you a cheat or anything of the sort. But at least me man enough to admit the opportunites you've been given and the ones you have taken while the rest of your alliance is getting the shit kicked out of them.

let's rather do this in a pm where you won't be humiliated (as well as not spam wp private affairs on the boards )

[Outh]

oh a note, slightly off topic, where did my like 700 other posts go?

[Tomkat]

They were "escorted" out of the topic.

Get it?
Escorted out?
Ahaha.
Ahem.

[DrunkenViking]

Originally Posted by xtothez

You're either ignorant of your white-kinght complex, or just entirely ignorant. I don't see how you could have failed to spot the simple truth:

• Cheating is caused by a desire to win
• A desire to win is caused by wanting to be better than you are
• Wanting to be better is human nature

Can you see what I did there?

If cheating is human nature(drawn conclusion of what you said), i'm making it my mission to change human nature. Isnt there a thing called "fair play", as a footballfan i believe there is.
edit:
Also, if you mean that we will never get rid of injustice, law violations etc from a game, how long you suspect the world will survive once we all grow up and stop playing this game to face the world instead?

[mazzelaar]

Hicks > *

nuff said

[DrunkenViking]

Originally Posted by idimmu

with respect to cheating

anything that doesnt involve controlling more than one planet

is tactics

lol, guess you have read the rules before you signed up to each round

[ParraCida]

If only you had my aweseome honed skills multihuntering for you!

But then, you'd have me in the top gal as well, and who'd want that

[Judge]

Originally Posted by Forest

Hicks, come out with specific times when I have cheated and i will answer them now.

i have NEVER claimed to be a white knight, but I do say the buck stops here. Enough is enough. Its time to sort this problem our way, my way.

You use your voice to pillar me, yet you pillar me for using mine.

Nothing will change, cheats will be taken down, and it starts now.

People in Glass houses shouldnt throw stones.

[Forest]

Rocks work better

[Barrow|Pony]

Firstly, pillar isn't a verb.

Secondly, ND sadly had to turn down the offer to become part of the 'crusade against cheating brought to you by your friendly neighborhood PA-celeb-in-training-wannabe.'

We made our decision not because we are the cheating scum of the universe. But because of the blatantly obvious possibilities of abuse. If 'proof' won't be a burden here, then I want no part.

[Ladybug]

Personally myself hats off to Forest for staying. Since I have retired I don't miss all the hacking and other crap that happens in this game. Winning with your own skill is the only true way to play and PA has changed to much for my blood. I have watched many cheat in this game and seen way too much evidence regarding all the cheating.

^5 Forest and for those who stand to play fairly. The day will come when PA will die because of all the cheating and doing whatever it takes to win. I commend all those who play fair. I will never again come back to this game only because of all this. A true winner is one that stands with his or her team and takes care of their own planets along with their friends. I can honestly say that is the only thing I got from PA is all the friends for who I cherish.

[Lupin]

pa has nothing to do with skill. if you want to be on the top there is just one way: be a member of the winning alliance, dont get caught when you cheat.

[Seth Mace]

Man, dont p1ss off hicks;P

Forest, if you could pop into #hr when you get a chance, as ND have hinted at, the plan (while seemingly in good faith), has a few holes in that could cause a lot of sh1t for all involved:/

[Bu||seye]

Originally Posted by Lupin

pa has nothing to do with skill. if you want to be on the top there is just one way: be a member of the winning alliance, dont get caught when you cheat.

Nicely summed up. I think the only one ever winning a round of PA by his own skills was Joker in r1, but then again, I'm only judging that by what i've read and was told, I wasn't there so I wouldn't know for sure...

[Lupin]

moridin did win r1

Originally Posted by Bu||seye

but then again, I'm only judging that by what i've read and was told, I wasn't there so I wouldn't know for sure..

[Bu||seye]

Oh did he? I guess that's what Joker got for not siding with WaC then. Anyhow, I've always held him in high respect, or what I've read about him anyways...

[Moridin]

Originally Posted by Bu||seye

Oh did he? I guess that's what Joker got for not siding with WaC then. Anyhow, I've always held him in high respect, or what I've read about him anyways...

Yeah, Joker was a nice guy, anyone who calls him unnallied are blatantly wrong though, he was on the member list of at least 2 alliances, and had the help of more, still very dedicated guy from what I could tell. And considering he was in c4, if he had joined Concordium at our start, he'd likely ended lower, since we were, er, kinda small early on and not even the main force in our "home" cluster. That did change a bit during the round of course.

[Bu||seye]

I recall a nice galbanner of his, where he basically called WaC sad lame cnuts that ruined the game by allying everyone and their grannies...
Funny, if you keep in mind that this was r1. Some things just don't change in PA it seems...

'lo Moridin btw, I still have your overview saved somewhere with those gazillions of hostiles. Looks nice, but compared to nowadays, the whole structure and concept of the overview screen back then looks ... n00bish.

[Hicks]

There's a lot to be said for simplicity.

[LordBlackheart2000]

HI Forest get off your high horse. just wanted to say hi from the Online Grave that im in, ie no access still hi to anyone else that still remembers me like IceLady & Leshy etc be back again sometime to say hi....


Cupelix

[Forest]

cupelix get in #forest next time u get a chance. I heop all is well etc ect

[Colt]

Originally Posted by Hicks

I guarantee that the top planets this round have farmed, been escorted and used scan bases

heh, and i can guarantee that i havent farmed, been escorted or multied this round, but you would know best heh

[Colt]

Originally Posted by Outh

Dunno about the other players on top 10 (they all evul and should all be deleted spinner!)

you mean person

[Moridin]

Originally Posted by Bu||seye

I recall a nice galbanner of his, where he basically called WaC sad lame cnuts that ruined the game by allying everyone and their grannies...
Funny, if you keep in mind that this was r1. Some things just don't change in PA it seems...

'lo Moridin btw, I still have your overview saved somewhere with those gazillions of hostiles. Looks nice, but compared to nowadays, the whole structure and concept of the overview screen back then looks ... n00bish.

well, they have done 10 rounds since then
and there was no WaC in r1, that came about in r2 (and we wernt allied with very many in r1)

[Forest]

It was r3

And it was Legion

And i got cnutted