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Unread 28 Mar 2004, 17:44   #1
Jackal2112
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Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Dear co-planetarionists,

As the round is underway for about 9 days, with a couple of minor glitches on the way which have been taken care of quite nicely by Spinner and co, it is time to take a step back from your planet and look at how the game of Planetarion and especially this round seems to be evolving.

- Blocks and possible stagnation
It was to be expected that the choice for private gals for R10.5 meant alliance blocks would be formed. Any alliance will try to limit the number of members per galaxy to 3 or the odd 4, to make defense easier. It is therefore understandable that as an alliance you are almost forced to choose at least 2 major allies. Rumour has it that the first 'group of private gals' is formed from members of the alliances MISTU, FAnG and Phraktos. A second block of allies was formed in the form of LCH, VsN and Elysium. Naturally the remaining alliances had no choice other then to set up joint galaxies with their respective members, which are mainly ROCK, NoS, HR and VGN. Members from Wolfpack are rumoured to have joined galaxies from most of the 3 blocks Hi Jurgen!). From the alliances Valhalla and Newdawn I have no information to which galaxies they mostly joined. If you take the above into consideration, it looks like this round might be heading for stagnation real fast. Why? Well, let's take a look at the first 15 alliances in the alliance ranking which have a total size of about 310.000 roids. If you translate this to 'block' sizes, this means that the biggest block has a relative size of 31% (96.000 roids). The second block is about 23% (72.000 roids) and the 3'rd assembly of alliances about 18% (55.000 roids). In my opinion it is unlikely that the MISTU, FAnG, Phraktos block will be defeated by any of the other blocks on their own and neither in the situation where both the 'smaller' blocks cooperate with eachother against them M-F-P. Stagnation ahoy.

What is YOUR opinion on this? How do you feel about the fact that private gals are causing a situation where it's impossible for your alliance to not have to closely cooperate with 2-3 other alliances?

- Fence sitting, smart, or pu$sy?
I am slightly amused with the comments I have seen over the last week about a certain galaxy's fencesitting skills. I quote 'those people in x:y are fencesitting pussies!!'. I have to disagree with that and this is why. First of all people who want to play with their friends, even if those are in opposing alliances or blocks, should be allowed to do so. Especially when you have the option due to private gals. Secondly, it is plain smart, because if you can get your HC to put your galaxy in all the arbiters as friendly, you will never be attacked and you will have an easy and relaxed round. Those, however, who constantly whine about fencesitting, and the HC's of those alliances are the real 'pu$sies', as they condone this but do nothing about it (maybe because most of the HC are in such gals themselves?). If you don't agree with it, why don't you kick them out? They are just smarter than you! Or, if you don't agree with it, planetary protection and not full gal protection, might be the simplest solution. Those people will soon run out of targets outside their own block anyways, which makes it a timebomb in a way.

How do YOU feel about 'fencesitters', or people that form galaxies with their friends, regardless of their allegiance to their alliance? Do you think those people who whine and cry about it, either should do something about it or shut up and be jealous about it all round?

I'd like to see how people reading the forum and playing PA at this moment feel about this. I know it's some of the major subjects of discussion at the moment so let's hear it. Let's try to be constructive and have a real discussion, not a plain flamefest (which most of you are proven veterans at, so no need to prove it again ffs!). I also would like to add a disclaimer: All that I have said in this post is based on my view and on the information I have access to, so if there are major flaws, please point them out, but -please- try to be constructive.

Thanks and regards,
Lord Dain
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Last edited by Jackal2112; 28 Mar 2004 at 20:33.
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Unread 28 Mar 2004, 18:15   #2
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

So do you have an agenda?
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Unread 28 Mar 2004, 19:55   #3
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

It's been a while since I've done this. And today I can't be bothered to shy away from the gory details. Here's my point of view for all of you still playing (yes, all seven of you).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal2112
- Blocks and possible stagnation...
From the gal lists released its pretty much public knowledge that Elysium Vision and LCH formed joint gals, while Phraktos, Fang and Mistu formed their own. These triads obviously exchanged co-ords and organise joint raids on their opposing block. What you need to know is about the middle ground. WP have kept their traditional spot on the fence (they've been there so long they got cable and running water installed). While HC refuse to take an official position, the majority of their members have chosen to share galaxies with Fang/Phraktos/ND, and often join in their raids. Darky in the meantime has been occupied keeping his gal out of the firing line, with General1 offering around copies of the Phraktos/Mistu/Fang memberlist in exchange for galaxy NAPs. The WP command gal now sit safe in knowledge they won't be attacked and can head straight for #1. What a pity they don't realise the actual players in the gal are far far too shit to come near that rank.
ND command are on friendly terms with Fang, and while no actual co-ord swaps have taken place to my knowledge, their members are quite entrenched in Fang galaxies and do attack with their raids on EVL (we soooo need to get IPC in the block for a perfect acronym).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal2112
it is unlikely that the MISTU, FAnG, Phraktos block will be defeated by any of the other blocks on their own or neither in the situation where both the 'smaller' blocks cooperate with eachother against them M-F-P. Stagnation ahoy.
While the numbers are stacked against EVL and chances of claiming any signifcant victory are slim, the stagnation isn't likely to get too bad due to PAX's swap-the-roid game mechanics. You certainly won't see the sweeping decimation of opposing blocks a la rounds 5, 7 and 9, the game simply won't allow one side to take such a beating without chance for recovery. This will lead to political stagnation though, with factions being unwilling to split due to the ease in which their top planets can be bruised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal2112
- Fence sitting, smart, or pu$sy?...
I disagree. I think its selfish and hypocritical for people to play this way. The important point you're missing is that these people aren't just friends in separate alliances that want to form a gal, they're a gal of friends who decide to join opposing alliances to save their own asses. Many of the players in these sorts of gals apply to a specific alliance with the intention of reducing incoming, hitting random or barely hostile targets and fencesitting their way to #1. I have no problem with people wanting to win a round, but it's just hypocritical to claim alleigiance to a group of players then turn around and attack them as soon as it looks like someone might attack you. Although personally I'm a big fan of team play and loyalty.

While we're on the subject of a #1 gal I'd like to take the opportunity for a rant about the current #1 player. Or to be more specific, shout "YOU SAD ****ING GEEK" to the kid. I now realise it's too much to ask for the game admins to let this game die properly. Instead they're trying to squeeze every last penny out of little boys like you who feel the need to compensate for your lack of genital prowess by investing mummys credit card in a bunch of rock factories. No I don't believe you can attack 9 consecutive 200+ roid random planets who just happen to lack any ship that targets you, while intiating rocks just before you land. I feel the need to become a multihunter so I can have a cut of the cash they must be getting to let you get away with such blatant pissing on the rulebook.
The only stagnation in this game is Spinners refusal to accept that half of the planets in the universe don't belong to the other half. Or maybe his refusal to care:

Quote:
<XtoTheZ> its just you're leaving it wide open for cheating
<@Spin|NoPms> cheating?
<XtoTheZ> 3 accounts for £10 encourages multiing, free planets interacting with paid ones, private gals...
<[9-4-9]Xsploit> XtoTheZ who cares
<[9-4-9]Xsploit> i want multies and farm planets
<Fish`afkish> 3 accounts for a tenner?
<Fish`afkish> bargain
<Krush> Fish`afkish: indeed ^^
<@Spin|NoPms> XtoTheZ, if that is the price for a bigger universe, we must live with some of it
<@Spin|NoPms> but farming free planets wont be very efficient, I promise that
<XtoTheZ> of course it will
<XtoTheZ> its more efficient now
<@Spin|NoPms> XtoTheZ, ??
<XtoTheZ> you get the most benefit from a farm/escort planet in the first 2 weeks of the round
<@Spin|NoPms> ofc I agree to that
<@Spin|NoPms> It will be beneficial to the point of about 300 roids
^^
hurr hurr look at Touriquet.....
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Unread 28 Mar 2004, 20:24   #4
Jackal2112
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Lokken, No, I do not have an agenda as I am playing as an anonymous peon this round.

XtotheZ, thanks for your lengthy and serious response. I think the truth about fence sitters is somewhere in the middle and not fully black or white. I am willing to agree with you that there will always be certain 'geeks' who will do about anything to be succesful in this game, you definitely coming close to that description as I have seen you in action personally last round. You still by far aint as bad as someone like TouriQuet though, who is a liar and a cheater of the worst kind.. and who lives in denial in regards to these proven facts.

On the matter of top planets and galaxies farming. We all know it's happening, even the multihunters, but there is a large grey area between this common knowledge and the evidence that is required to actually close a paying players account.
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Unread 28 Mar 2004, 20:38   #5
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

In my defense of actions last round I'd like to point out that my main reason (and probably the deciding reason) for going ahead with that plan was because if we didn't, Eclipse or Dragons would have tried the same thing. I'm not saying it was wrong or right, it was just my opinion at the time.
(And if any of you feel the need to discuss this issue further, resurrect one of the other threads on it so I can ignore it, and don't derail this one, ta).
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 04:12   #6
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

heh. I see nothing wrong in attacking inactives in the begging to get roids and grow. Maybe its a bit cheap because i'm not hitting the "enemy" but who are you to judge. Everyone to his own.

LD, blah blah blah blah. .....


edit:

i'm not the #1 xtothez. wrong intel
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 07:56   #7
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Wowzie,

nice post Dain, imho. My personal feeling is that we can't blame Phraktos, Mistu and FAnG for making such a block. In a 10 ppl gal setup, 3 alliances are minimum and to "feel safe" it's bound to happen that such a block is formed. We all know the History of planetarion and blocking, I won't bother to wine about that, since if been in that position myself and as HC you easily get yourself slipped into it. I will stress spinner(and hope some others help me) that we should reduce gal size to 6(Or something like that) This will help reducing the chance of a triad. 2 alliance's working together would mean we could have at least 4 blocks. At least we could hope for some variation. If we continue R11 with 10ppl per gal the blocks might change, but not the size of the blocks. For this round, which I see as an intermediate round anyway this will not change. It's impossible for Phraktos, Mistu and FAnG to break there triad, and tbh there is no reason to do that. The good thing about the ppl in at least Phraktos(haven't spoken to others) is that they at least see that they are biggest and try to encourage an all vs them war. Imho after General was so kind to hand out all info about the P-M-F gal setup it won't be to hard for the opposition to pick out those gals who need bashing first. We all know that there are 3/4 l33t gals(My Opinion ofc) which could use some bashing. This will hold of some firepower for P-M-F, since there other members will need to defend those roids. To my shame from what i've seen so far(I'm scanner and scanned a lot so far) both sides are concentrating on getting easy roids. For those ppl i'm scanning for I know they play fair, cause otherwise they won't need a scan.. But I'm afraid some others have multiple accounts, not even to farm those, but might be only to farm the galm8's there multi account is in. I've seen(have intel) more high ranked ppl are doing that atm. Which ofcourse ruins the game. If the opposition would have some balls, they go straight to the l33t M-P-F gals and try to take out there top players, this has ofcourse a lot of risk. But since M-P-F is bigger they will grow exponential from farming newbies and the gap between the opposition will only grow. The longer they wait the harder it will be to take down the l33t gals. Can't blame ppl for chosing the easy roids atm, i've done it in the past as well. This works great if you are in the bigger block, since you will win on numbers(numbers of roids) in the end. Those who are part of the smaller block will have fun now, since they feel they are doing good with there top100 spot, but as soon as noobfarming doesn't pay of anymore, M-P-F will come after there roids, and since there block ain't got the numbers, they are bound to lose them sooner or later. Focussing from scratch on hostile roids is the only good tactic for the opposition. A tactic which needs balls, balls that most alliances don't have, which has valid reasons since you need a willing memberbase. But this also means you are doomed to become beaten.

How do I feel about fence sitters. Well I tottaly agree with Dain. Players who are sitting fence have some lameness inside, but the HC are the real lamers. They are in full control off there members, the fence sitters might be good friends, and ofcourse kicking them will lead there members to go to the other side, which you don't want to see to happen to your top gal. Still, they should kick any fence sitters of there memberbase caries this opinion. If there is no reason to kick one of this member, a planetary nap will affect the gal so much and will lead to so much trouble, that this gal is doomed to fall. We all know the story's of in gal defending against your own alliance, attacking a side, which retalls etc etc. I don't see a fence sit gal winning this round, as if I where M-P-F I would like a full M-P-F gal winning this round. Not sharing victory with a hostile alliance.

For R11 I still see great potential in this game. Since the memberbase is small, 6 ppl per galaxy would be good. I trust Spinner in creating a great game, and still dream of a sponser, who gives Jolt 50k, to have some free rounds which will bring back planetarion for free, so the game can rock as it done before. Planetarion is still much better imho then the clones out there, the clones are free, that is the only big plus
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 12:44   #8
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Get back on topic dudes.



P.S. Dont quote this and continue going off topic cos i'll get pissed and start crying and deleting posts in a fit of rage.
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 17:33   #9
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
you asked to be constructive and no flaming? Yet you thank Xto for his post (which was insulting, flaming and not contructive) and then you go insult other pple yourself?

How do you expect pple to be constructive and not flame while you do it yourself in your own thread in which you specifically asked (twice even) not to flame and to be constructive?

rgds Kj
how can "proven" facts be considered as flaming


anyways....about the round i tend to agree that 3 alliances to mix gals was normal, but remember that the player base in those rounds was bigger. In this round at the start FPM had over 10% of the playerbase and was in terms of member quite a bit bigger (considering ND is also friendly towards them). And i do blame them for a part as they took the "easy" way by getting a (for PaX terms) "huge" playerbase in their gals. But i guess its just wait and see how the fight between the blocks will end up.


As for fence sitters.... I don't see why gals should be considered as being such.... in a random round it was possible to be with hostiles in a gal and still manage together eventhough incs were sent at both groups in the gals. And i can't really understand why that shouldn't be the case in a private round.. If you play with friends in such a way you have to be aware of the conesquences... (but thats just my personal opinion).


What i do mind about the current PaX is the way that cheating seems to be handled, as some cases are quite obvious and yet nothing is done about it, which makes me question whether its worthmy time and effort to keep playing such a game. I don't mind the cheating itself really, what i do mind is the ppl doing it (the "leet" top planets etc) all deny they do it and come crying when they get caught and tell us how innocent they were. And i really hate the HC who protect their known cheaters.. which is very very sad.... but hey.. i guess thats life. I hope that the cheaters get get deleted while the harm hasn't been done yet (i.e. now) instead of the end of the round :-). That would atleast give a better playground for a decent and maybe even fair block war
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 17:53   #10
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
how can "proven" facts be considered as flaming
I don't care whether they are proven. If you wish to have a constructive convo, then you simply do not start talking bad about other pple. Why? Cause whatever you say, those pple might reply to "defend" themselves or to justify their actions or whatever and in both cases it's not constructive and infact has NOTHING to do with this thread in the first place.

I mean, can you honnestly say Xto's post (both of them) was constructive and entirely related to the thread subject (certainly not the 2nd post)? he even created a discussion not related to this thread but asks everyone not to reply on the matter nway.

I thought this thread was about politics in r10.5, not about what happened last round and stuff like that.

rgds Kj
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 18:01   #11
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

I could now reply on the flaming from xtothez but I simply wont. Enough people know the lines we set out. It's just weird that some dont see it and still dont see the lines from the last rounds. But okay. They can't help that.

My personal feelings about this round? surprised. Why again private.. private leads to blocking while that was what was seen as the biggest danger to planetarion. Read the development forums it's also agreed there that big powerblocks are a big danger but still we again go private. Read forums now and it again goes towards "why such a big block?"
And mistu, phraktos and fang will defend with "but the opponent got a bigger block" (which was maybe true till nos, well changed a little and eclipse disbanded).
Now it's a huge block against well a small blockie. (ely and what's left of their allies). People really expect WP to make a huge block even bigger? Dont hope so. And we also wont allie with some who we simply dont trust. If the line we set then is seen as fencesitting? hmm you can also say that WP in a way is free to attack by all alliances since it's without allies. Is that fencesitting or staying solo and with that becoming a bigger target. Matter of opinion. But imo you can't sit on a fence when everybody can shoot ya down from it. Fencesitting is being allied with everybody else. And as far as I know are allies something WP doesn't have atm.
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 18:51   #12
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Well with the blocks, I'd unite against the most 'powerful' one while you still can, then if victory follows, go for the fencesitters for doing feck all to help either of you - get rid of the big blockers, then inflict some poetic justice.

So WP claim they are on their own but I'd hardly call it 'independence' when you hide in the strongest galaxies (so it seems) of the other alliances - fencesitting isn't necessarily being allied to everyone (although don't you have your fingers in many galaxy-sized pies?), it's staying out of the conflct, which in my opinion is a disgrace as it utterly devalues those who bothered to put effort in. It was very nice of Caliban to give you his own definition, even though his alliance's actions may very well fit within it. It's very nice of him to put this behind an illusion that blocks are bad (they aren't in my view, and this topic has been discussed ad nauseam) it's simply a case that HC's in the main (as it's rightly been pointed out) are too lazy to get stuck in to another alliance once one war is finished - this is a round where there is very little to lose, and so for one of the few occaisons, keep attacking people or else you've thrown your money away. People have the right to play with friends, and in almost newbieless universe, private galaxies are a reasonable step if people are prepared to be a bit responsible.

WP's strategy seems simple from Caliban's post; focus everyone's attention on each other, let them kick lumps out of each other and profit, by doing nothing, and it's astonishing people let them do this! I'm not surprised by a post taking the 'moral high ground'; usually the people sharking you are those who try to claim it. The only way to deal with fence sitters: burn the ****ing fence.

As a sidenote: Don't mean to make a sweeping generalisation, but is it just me who thinks that people who have capital and small case letters in the their nicks are irritating, usually cheating, and like to wank off their score. As bad as fencesitters, that lot, quite often both though.
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Unread 29 Mar 2004, 19:21   #13
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

I don't think powerblocks are the biggest threat to Planetarion. Infact, there have been blocks every single round. I think the P2P formula is the main reason why most pple can't be arsed to give money to this game.

About those triads formed, it happened last round, it happens this round. I don't see why it's different or why pple suddenly have to justify their decisions to ally. Becides, the math is simple. Every alliance can get 100 members so if needed it's easy to even out the blocks in exactly the same numbers.

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Unread 30 Mar 2004, 09:52   #14
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

powerblocks have been part of every round so whats the suprise for?

In reality blocks have not changed the nature of teh game n a private universe or in a random uni.

There is no amazing leveller or the ability to change things because of this. game mechanics allow it. game mechanics actually encouage alliances to assist each other.

The nature of the game has changed so mch over 3 rounds. I would say that the lack of playability and pay to play has more influence in the declining universe and or the effects that a block has on the game.
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Unread 30 Mar 2004, 11:09   #15
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

PT 209? That was around the time I pressed the 'delete account' button. in contrast to round 9 the button is actually working this time. at least one improvement
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Unread 30 Mar 2004, 23:40   #16
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

I agree pretty much with all that XtoTheZ said, even if he is on the the side of the nerdified-in-webspace battlefield.

The code is a bit better, and hopefully some bashing will be allowed later (as opposed to PAX). I wouldn't say stagnation has set in at all Lord_Dain, both sides are still vying for top position. As Xto said though, it's very swap-the-roids, so is likely to be a long struggle before any clear winner comes through.

The difference in this case against other rounds is there's no secrecy in who is on each other's side. I think a lot of people appreciate that, as there is no fannying around. There's two sides (although I think LCH/Ely/Vision should take in IPC, just so they can spell "EVIL" with their block name) and we'll see how it spans out.

I mean come on, it's tick 263 as we speak. We've only had ~11 days, that's less than two weeks. If we're going to get a winner that quick, this round would be rubbish (or rubbisher, depends how you look at it).

Let's wait and see before writing long threads on AD that aren't going to amount to anything, mmm?
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Unread 31 Mar 2004, 09:04   #17
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

no one talks about LDK? wtf ^^
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Unread 31 Mar 2004, 13:43   #18
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

I found out where Lithuania was today, someone showed me on a map.
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Unread 31 Mar 2004, 14:27   #19
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Oh goodie, Thunder mentioned me
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Unread 31 Mar 2004, 18:19   #20
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC

cos i'll get pissed and start crying and deleting posts in a fit of rage.
Ad moderator in hormones shocker

back to topic before he cries

since private was reintroduced no alliance (my own included) has the need to have full member only gals and the obvious thing is to share with like minded allys creating a blocking scenario but if alliances can block with random rds and with alliance built into the game it was quarenteed that there would be some sort of blocks made this rd but sofar there have been no war declarations and thats whats making it a bit boring to be honest

then we can go back to what AD is famous for

mindless drivel name calling and propoganda crap
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Unread 31 Mar 2004, 21:55   #21
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
mindless drivel name calling and propoganda crap
I promised JC to start less discussions and flamewars

rgds Kj
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Unread 31 Mar 2004, 23:09   #22
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I found out where Lithuania was today, someone showed me on a map.
Its the small country witch got stamped "WE USE FAKE CC's"
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Unread 1 Apr 2004, 09:38   #23
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

I have no idea if a war is being fought atm. The lack of official declaration does not mean there is no war. The problem for those that want war is that the current game does not give the same pleasure as when fighting old style wars.

A war requires long lists of red and green. BCs making hasty calculations and decisions. Deciding each tick to pull or not.

I remember losing several fleets while trying to piggy on huge waves in some war I wasn't involved in (and therefore didn't get the recall msg). The traveltime and 3-tick combat system allowed me as a noob to participate. I like the current type of game. But it can use a little improvement here and there.

I still remember how I once stole 1 single roid from the at that time #1 player. Myself being rank ~10k. It's the raid I remember best of all my career in PA. It was a crystal roid. Shiny like a diamond.
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Unread 13 Apr 2004, 14:49   #24
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Re: Contemplations R10.5 PT 209

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Its the small country witch got stamped "WE USE FAKE CC's"
I think it's a bit unfair the way u generalise this, to say the least. Lithuanians aren't all stealing and cheating bastards like u seem to think, and I'm pretty sure there are cheating, stealing bastards of every nationality
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